Repost: Sunshine Empire
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Posted by Siandiao of HWZ:
What's wrong with the name card above?
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What's wrong with the namecard?
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err..business development manager?
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Some details are shaded out?
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...using Hotmail email acc?Originally posted by brokenluv:err..business development manager?
Isnt SE supposed to be multi million multinational company under a great leader? -
Sunshine Empire must have an army of IT experts since they boast about their ability to do consulting and implementation to build up IT infrastructure for their clients.Originally posted by redstone:...using Hotmail email acc?
Isnt SE supposed to be multi million multinational company under a great leader?
However, their experts must be so busy on projects, that they simply don't have the time to set up their own mail server.
Finally, lack of an email server also means there's no corporate email retention policy and it's harder for investigators to track down mails. -
i believe those aren't the reasons... lack of IT expertise or what but that because SEA, whether of managerial position or not, are NOT allowed to have their domain email address as the SEA position in the company is a sales representative and not an agent of the company nor an employee so SE does not allow them to use company emails in order to prevent wrongly information filtering out of their control by the users.
as we know, mlm representatives almost always mislead and misrepresent their stuff and I guess SE just doesn't want to take the rap for any such potential misdeamnor. -
Can't afford decent company email?Originally posted by fire & ice:i believe those aren't the reasons... lack of IT expertise or what but that because SEA, whether of managerial position or not, are NOT allowed to have their domain email address as the SEA position in the company is a sales representative and not an agent of the company nor an employee so SE does not allow them to use company emails in order to prevent wrongly information filtering out of their control by the users.
as we know, mlm representatives almost always mislead and misrepresent their stuff and I guess SE just doesn't want to take the rap for any such potential misdeamnor. -
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Posted in skyscrapercity forums Hmmm -
The auger machine is super antique. Budget construction for show?
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Is Malaysia ler.......wait till the lion head floating and the empire villa pop out with roof top and power supple then said ~Originally posted by redstone:The auger machine is super antique. Budget construction for show?
Else is another abandon projects liao ~ -
They're tons of abandoned const. sites.Originally posted by kyoshirou77:Is Malaysia ler.......wait till the lion head floating and the empire villa pop out with roof top and power supple then said ~
Else is another abandon projects liao ~ Even in JB there's a few. -
Yeah... they're a real eyesore.Originally posted by redstone:They're tons of abandoned const. sites. Even in JB there's a few. -
Well, at the bottom of the EPV website, right at the bottom, is the company Empire Property Venture International Sdn. Bhd.
This is a new company formed in jan 2007, and owned jointly by 4 individuals including Dato Alex Teh and (James) Phang Wah.
The company mentioned in the Website profile: http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/companyprofile.html, Empire Properties Venture Sdn. Bhd, set up in 1995, has been 'dormant' since 2004, with the last audited accounts showing a loss of $10,260 for year 2003.
It is interesting that our James Phang is not shown in the Mgmt Team despite being a Director.
Neither was he at the ground breaking ceremony of the Melaka Marina Villa.
Actually Malacca is quite far away from Singapore. As a Singaporean I personally do not see it as a ideal second home. of course that is my opinion only.
In the plan view: http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/img/floor_plan/emv_typicalflrplan.pdf there is no built-in cupboard, no storeroom.
In their Brochure http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/img/floor_plan/brochure_malacca.pdf all the houses floors are ceramic tiles (not parquet or varnished timber), and plastered wall.
As for the whole concept, have they thought of how the dream estate may turn out?
Scene of houses with planked walkways:-
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I'm digging out posts from 2003Originally posted by DennisLam:Dear all,
I am a student. I am writing this because I have just came back from the NTI Paris office in Shenton Way. I was asked to go there by a friend who was in turned invited by an NTI Paris employee. Now, after listening to 2 hours of drivel from the NTI employee, all I have to say is that NTI Paris is a devious and despicable pyramid scam, and I swear I will do everything in my power to bring it down before it harms more innocents.
Pardon me if I am wrong, but isn't the main concept of any business, MLM or not, to sell *products* and not to recruit people into the company for monetary gains? This was the overwhelming impression that I was given at NTI Paris. The employee who talked to me consistently refused to answer questions about the actual products (aromatherapy stuff) that they were selling, concentrating instead on the amount of money that I can earn each month by building up the pyramid under me. He emphasized very strongly on the fact that money is mainly made from recruitment; each time someone joins your binary-downlink tree, you get money from it. When questioned about what the company actually have to does for a living, he evaded the question, and zealously went back to talking about the immense monetary benefits of creating "business centers." He continuously points to the benefits of buying business centers and bringing in more people to the fold, going so far as to warn me not to spread the word too much, because as of now, I am "not sufficiently trained to advertise the company," and that the time will come when I will be sufficiently trained to advertise this business plan to further recruits.
Now this begs the question, if the business plan is so amazingly good that every employee become instant millionaires if they work hard enough, then why is there a need for such secrecy? Also, and the more pertinent question is, WHERE DOES ALL THIS MONEY COME FROM? Simple mathematics will tell you that it comes from all the people at the bottom of the pyramid, the people who have been sweet-talked into giving hundreds or even thousands on dollars to the company, with no hope of getting any returns either because the market is already saturated, or because the people at the top of the pyramid has run away with all the money. The NTI Paris employee frequently brings up the subject of "following your dreams" and "becoming what you want to be," as do most MLM employees in this thread. I encourage people to do their best in life too, and to strive to make as much money as they can, if that is indeed their aim. But the question is, AT WHAT COST? Is it worth it financing your dreams by bilking other people out of their hard-earned money? That is crime, and at a time like this, I cannot possibly condone such dastardly business acts.
The names "James Phang" and "Dato Dr. Eric Tan Eng Huat" was frequently mentioned during my talk with the NTI Paris employee. It was mentioned in such reverence, suggesting that they are saintly figures who have made it rich, and are interested in helping us commoners to be "part of the wealth" too. Believe none of this. If indeed they are aware of this, they are cheats indeed, and very malicious ones too. They are the rich who wants to get richer by swindling the poor of even more wealth. Charitable businessmen? More like decadent frauds. And the employees who use their names as part of the recruitment speech should be deeply ashamed.
Now you may ask, why am I so outraged? Am I working for another MLM that wants to see NTI Paris go down? No, I am not. In fact, I stand to gain nothing from NTI Paris' demise, if that occurs. But I do have friends who have invested much of their money in the scheme, and are prepared to further recruit more innocent people into the scheme to finance their earnings. They do not realize that the business plan is fundamentally flawed, or that the money that they get comes from people at the "bottom of the pile." It is never a Win-Win situation, it is Win-Lose; the people at the top of the pyramid gets richer, the people at the bottom gets poorer. And don't pull the curtains over my eyes by telling me that the pyramid can go on getting deeper forever ... a fool is born every minute, but a binary tree made up of "business partners" won't go beyond 50 levels even if you include all the people who have ever set foot on the earth, past and present.
There is never easy money. Not lawful ones anyway (excluding the one-in-a-million chance of a lottery ticket). It pains me to see my friends getting their money sucked into this deceitful scheme. And so I must speak out, before more people get cheated of their/ their parent's hard earned money.Originally posted by laurence82:Well, dennis' points mirror my sentiments.
However, after I gather the facts, I do not know how to pull my friends out. They are really brainwashed, coz most never seen other companies before, and seen the industry through the eyes of James Phang, who "taught" them how MLM biz "really should goes".
Unless one ventures to see few companies, it is very hard to appreciate how funny ntiparis is. Most believe in James Phang, in binary (totally), in how biz supposed to run nti way. I have friends who read success books and NM books. In many ways, even if we knew the funnny features of nti, how does one argue successfully with people who take out points from books? Like we knew army officers are running an event ineffectually, but cannot argue coz he knew how to make "logical' points, not effectual points.
Even if we present them the facts, two things might occur. Non acceptance and self denial. Remember, the truth is hard to swallow, and no one will admit they themselves are wrong.
Dennis, may I ask how you plan to bring the company down? Coz my conclusion is that to let the company falls and the suckers suckered, or the police catch up with them. I was just afraid some bad influence might lure them to join such companies again.
Few things to disclose here, and I hope people of AMH, ntiparis and NOP take note. There are links between these three companies definitely. How? Firstly, examine AMH methods of earning money, and relates them to ntiparis.Trace AMH boss history and you will find something. Secondly, note the points I tried to ask aWaken about AMH and ntiparis. NOP is the definite link to ntiparis, how ever you will want to read ST on Friday 19th Dec page two to know what is NOP.Thirdly, trace James Phang past buisness doings, and you will find something. Let me give u guys a clue, I may own this house definitely, but it is under my wife's name. In the eyes of the law, the house belongs to my wife, although I may have provided the money for it. When the house is eventually sold off, my wife gave me the money, but the HDB wouldnt care where the money goes.
Lastly, to hell with scams.
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Yes i agree with you. I wonder why was that guy not being apprehended.
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Totally agreed!!!!Originally posted by brokenluv:i believe 20000gp x 12000 would amount to a large sum of capital to get into an industry but it will require many months of planning.i do not believe JP got that kind of expertise and specialist personnal to get into ENERGY. let alone paying out ''dividends'' to its GP members each month, projects that ve not even kicked off.
how come in the midst of all these, suddenly 1 em energy will come out? i very curious and anxious see tmr got wad other EM come out. EMtvstation for best directors and actors?
If NOP is still alive then i have nothing to say ....
then why shut down NOP and register another company?
They are SO USED to get QUICK money. I am not surprise if its a total flip-flop plan and 3 years later, if there is no justice, they can start a new company again, and over again. Couldn't the authority do something??
If they are so capable, they should be listed in the stock market.
IPO the company if they can. At least, jail term awits if false accounting and mis-handle for funds occurs -
Ho ho ho,Originally posted by redstone:
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Posted in skyscrapercity forums Hmmm
To all SE members,
Good news, finally they have started the project!!
Thank god it wasn't a scam after all!
7 Millions has sunk into the project.
Please calculate how much funds the company has left and how much months they can pay to all members every month if there is no investor anymore.
Tip:
When you invest in property, always look at the developer's background. If Far East Org or Capital land then i have nothing to say as they got plenty of cash and expertise in handling such projects
Even if its been built year 2011.. do you think the company can pay continuously every month to its member? Now its end dec 2007.
5 Years to go. ok let it be 4 years.
Looks like a cash flow problem is going to occur soon!!
Come on, you know the maths...
Btw, was it pure coincidence that the project has finally started after the CAD investigates on... or you have already know when the project will start before-hand when you placed yuor money with them?? -
is not M is B.
is 7 Billions for the developing
wow, how many GP can make it up to 7 billions ~ -
Oh great, this will speed up the process..Originally posted by kyoshirou77:is not M is B.
is 7 Billions for the developing
wow, how many GP can make it up to 7 billions ~
7 billions.....that works out the 58334 SEs..
And they were established when? July?
For now its still ok. Deduct 1K x SE every month.
How many more months can the thing go?
Ok bull shit here, can SE please publish their Balance Sheet on the Straits Times? That should explain everything... I am sure every S.E. member is an investor and should be able to read the balance sheet.
Ok, what about their cash-flow statement to see how many months the company can operate?
ok, what about the profit and loss statement?
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ONLY THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE AND EMPTY BRAINED PEOPLE WILL BELIEVE THE PROJECT WILL COME TRUE.
WHY?
The project is worth almost as much as Singapore IR. Genting International that won the IR project has been trying hard to get cash flow for the last 1 year issuing Bonds/warrants to be purchased by investors via Singapore stock exchange to stcok up $1 billion.
Is Empire Venture property bigger than Genting International? EVP is a pea in the construction world. ZERO Expertise. ZERO Profit since its start. ZERO successful Track record. In my line of work in valuating companies, such companies are not just empty shell but shells that 'smells'.
I bet my last dollar that the project will NOT come true and i will bet my last cent that EVP by NO WAY has the means/cash to build it if the cost is really 7billion be it ringgit or Sing dollars.
TO ALL SE DIE HARD: SE will soon be able to create a database of the world's most stupid people and you guys will be top of the list; every time u believe any sh|t out there that JP says/does without finding out yourself = degrading your intelligence by a 100times. -
If you guys only stay negatif, even the projects completed you guys still have negatif things to say.
You guys never bought a house? Or your country procedure different with Malaysia? YOU THINK BANK/BUYER SO STUPID?
YOU THINK IT IS DEVELOPER SO EASY TO SCAM PPL?
Think logically, to complete the project better than abandon/scam it.
It is useless for a developer to scam!
Project may only abandon if no one buy the house!
The project cost 700 Millions RM.
To develop a 700 Millions project, they only need 10% - 20% of own capital to develop it.
The funds will come from Buyers/Bank, they need to pay deposit only 10% of the house price.
Before the project begin, buyers need to pay 10% deposit and downpayment.
Most of them is loan from Bank.
If buying full cash, they need to pay partially depend on the project completion.
Now they got 10% of the buyer downpayment.
They started to build the project,
WHEN THE PROJECT COMPLETED 20%, THE BANK WILL ONLY RELEASE 10% FUND TO EPV!
WHEN THE PROJECT COMPLETED 30%, THE BANK WILL ONLY RELEASE 20% FUND TO EPV!
WHEN THE PROJECT COMPLETED 50%, THE BANK WILL ONLY RELEASE 40% FUND TO EPV!
WHEN THE PROJECT COMPLETED 100%, THE BANK WILL ONLY RELEASE 100% FUND TO EPV!
THE BANK WILL NOT STUPID TO RELEASE ALL FUNDS TO DEVELOPER IF THE PROJECT HAVEN COMPLETE, THEY WILL ALWAYS RELEASE LESS FUND FROM THE PROJECT COMPLETION PARTS.
THE FULL CASH BUYERS DO NOT NEED TO PAY FULL CASH AT THE 1ST TIME, THEY WILL PAY DEPEND ON THE PROJECT COMPLETION.
IT IS BETTER TO COMPLETE THE PROJECTS BECAUSE THEY CAN EARN, IT WILL SOLD OUT. SE WILL ONLY SUPPORT PART OF CAPITAL.
AROUND 100M TO BUILD WATER THEMEPART, CONVENTION CENTER, HOTEL. BUILDING THESE IS TO INCREASE THE HOUSES VALUE.
GO CALCULATE HOW MUCH THEY CAN GET IF ALL OF UNITS SOLD.
THEN YOU MINUS 700M CAPITAL.
THEN U WILL SEE HOW MUCH THEY CAN EARN!
AND ALWAYS REMEMBER, IT IS BUILD BETTER THAN NOT BUILD! -
Quoting syiyee:
syiyee, I think you didnt read the Empire Venture FAQ?
To develop a 700 Millions project, they only need 10% - 20% of own capital to develop it.
The funds will come from Buyers/Bank, they need to pay deposit only 10% of the house price.
Before the project begin, buyers need to pay 10% deposit and downpayment.
Most of them is loan from Bank.
If buying full cash, they need to pay partially depend on the project completion.
Now they got 10% of the buyer downpayment.
They started to build the project,
WHEN THE PROJECT COMPLETED 20%, THE BANK WILL ONLY RELEASE 10% FUND TO EPV!
WHEN THE PROJECT COMPLETED 30%, THE BANK WILL ONLY RELEASE 20% FUND TO EPV!
WHEN THE PROJECT COMPLETED 50%, THE BANK WILL ONLY RELEASE 40% FUND TO EPV!
WHEN THE PROJECT COMPLETED 100%, THE BANK WILL ONLY RELEASE 100% FUND TO EPV!
THE BANK WILL NOT STUPID TO RELEASE ALL FUNDS TO DEVELOPER IF THE PROJECT HAVEN COMPLETE, THEY WILL ALWAYS RELEASE LESS FUND FROM THE PROJECT COMPLETION PARTS.
THE FULL CASH BUYERS DO NOT NEED TO PAY FULL CASH AT THE 1ST TIME, THEY WILL PAY DEPEND ON THE PROJECT COMPLETION.
Here's the link: http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/etp-inserts/faq_eng_261007.pdf
Quoteing:-
How do I finance the purchase?
You may select one of our two attractive installment plan specially arranged for you:-
a. Option 1 – to pay 3% for the next 30 months
b. Option 2 – to pay 5% for the next 18 months
When will I start payment of the installment plan that I have selected?
You will start paying according to the schedule of payment of the Installment Plan that you have chosen 1 month after your payment of 7% down payment and selection of the Installment Plan
Why should I select to pay 3% or 5% installment plan, when construction stage of pilling work not complete yet?
We are giving you special discount, which will be reflected in the supplementary agreement that you will sign. This discount is inclusive of fully furnish and GP that you will get.
Unquote.
So you see Syiyee, you start paying 1 month after signing the agreement, irregardless of project status, and whether it started or not, whether at what stage.
And it is not the banks that will be dealing with Empire Venture Corp. It is the SE Merchants themselves. The Banks are taken out of any equation here. It is up to the SE Merchants to do whatever they can to get the money to pay monthly.
Quoting:-
Flowchart for selection of the Installment Plans
Option 1 – 3% for 30 months Option 2 – 5% for 18 months Select unit of your choice (subject to availability) Pay 7% of the down payment (as per your unit selling price) Submit copy of your NRIC / Passport Select your installment plan (either Option 1 or Option 2) Sign your Sales & Purchase Agreement (with attachment of your selected Installment Plan) & Tenancy Agreement (if applicable) Start payment of your Installment as per your Option 1 or Option 2 (approximately 1 month later)
Unquote.
If you were to refer to my Post earlier: http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=276414&page=63
I said:-
In most pyramid schemes, the early birds usually walks away winners while perhaps 50% of the people wil lose.
In SE case, everyone will lose!
This is because SE has a regular contests where they encourage everyone to 're-entry'
Examples are:
http://www.sunshine-empire.com/download/Memo_Incentive%20to%20Genting%20&%20Korea%2007.pdf
So everyone will be encouraged to put back whatever they have earned!
Now I believe that even Top managers are not spared. With the sales of properties limited to only SE members, Top managers would naturally have to 'lead by example' in buying those units. And in the old FAQ, all buyers must buy a minimum of 10 units. This must be so that they can push it to their downlines.
And since once the deal is signed, they have to start paying a month later, can you imagine how much they have to put in monthly?
Say for a $700,000 house, a SE member pays 5% over 18 months. (refering to KL Project as example)
So in a year, it would have been $35,000 over 12 months = RM$420,000!
So every month, the SE member would have to fork out around S$20k to pay for his house.
SE Members will be practically putting back everything they earn initially into the Property purchase. Not only putting back whatever they earn... it will be worse because banks wouldn't lend money to a project that hasn't even started... so where are they getting the monthly $20k from???? Friends, banks, credit cards, company loans, insurance policies???
So if the house isn't built yet in 1 year and the company folds....
The implications are scary indeed!
I believe this will be a Everyone-Lose scenario. -
Nice analysis, abduct.
I can see SE only sells its projects internally. Okay... see this. Members had already pumped in 5 figure digits worth of money into Phang's pocket.
10K+ is no joke... how many people can afford it. And it claims the properties, in Melaka and KL are all brought by SE people. Take into consideration the costs of the units. Who in their right mind would buy? I mean, you had already pumped in 10K+, would you be willing to pump in more money? And basic logic tells you the more people you reach, the more units you can sell, am I correct?
As Brains said. EGA / SE / EPV has no experience in property development. Only experience in MLM and cheating, as records show. The malay news article says the project costs "RM 600 juta siap dibina" (can anyone pls translate). And it is it's first few projects, and they already make it so big. Where does SE get all this money? Bank loan? With no previous track record? Unlikely. -
and its not 700 million.. its 700 yi... izzit 7 billion ah ? 700 billion?