Novena Church exorcism suit begins
-
Originally posted by the Bear:
there must be trauma to suffer PTSD..If a prayer can cause trauma leading to PTSD, then 98% of Singaporeans have gone mad already. The remaining 2% are atheists. (they dun believe in God, so prayers won't hurt them)
-
haha, so true! And not just PTSD, but CLEVER PTSD too. It doesn't seem to really inconvenience SW right? As PTSD only appears when she has to go to Changi Hospital and to Court! Otherwise she is okay. The good doctor says that she is not capable of looking after herself or giving a coherent statement. And the doctor also says that the SW at times exaggerate her symptoms. Wah, she cannot think clearly and is soo helpless and yet she knows when to exaggerate her symptoms. C'mon Doctor, which is which?! The violins was playing really loud in Court yesterday, Dr Chan!
-
I'm going next week on one of the days. I guess the priests and the few churchgoers being sued need our support and prayers.
The last time I went, I didn't talk to Fr Simon. I feel bad now. I didn't know him and he didn't know me mah. Come next week, if I see him, I must remember to smile and talk to him.
-
That's great, Honeybunz. Something struck me last week when one of the defendants said that HE was the one traumatised by the SW's antics. That's true. I was only so upset that the SW and her family are such rotten liars and greedy for easy money, I forgot how it would affect the poor people she is falsely accusing. Perhaps the Judge should make her pay the defendants the $250k she is claiming.
-
Wasted we do not have a broadway here in Singapore, otherwise she can go singing in the rain..
-
Originally posted by Quincey:
Wasted we do not have a broadway here in Singapore, otherwise she can go singing in the rain..
We still have wayangs! But if she insists on her snake performance, then best place is Singapore Zoo. After all, things there dull now without dear Ah Meng! At the very least, I hope the SW has to pay the defendants legal fees. Her family and whoever he is - lover or sworn brother or adopted son - whatever, should all be charged with perjury. Her son should not be allowed to become a teacher. Can you imagine what he will teach impressionable young minds! That is even more horrifying than her bleedy snake drama! -
I told my brother in law who is a Christian too though he is a Protestant.
He said there was similar incident in his church. One day during mass a young man went berserk. Throwing the chairs and cursing. The pastor prayed to cast out the demon which everyone thought to be possesing this man. But after awhile the man didn't get any better. The pastor then realised that this man was faking it. Then he ordered some men to 'escort' this wacky man out of the church premises. The man became normal the moment he stood outside the church premises.
Faker.
Do not be afraid to give help to those who need it. Inspite of fakers who try to capitilize on false charges do not be afraid of doing God's work. But be smarter the next time someone trying to fake it.
But I have to say that the best person to cast out any demon from a body is actually the person who is possesed himself if he is a believer in God. I'm a Catholic and one day some men sent me an evil spirit which eventually entered my body. It fled right after I cried out to God to ask for His help. So easy! Its name was Olahzhong. Moved very fast but only good at fleeing! Actually I was freed right after I cried out to God, I didn't sense the spirit fleeing though I did sense when the spirit went past my hostel room's closed door. No matter being freed is being freed. Evil spirits or demons? Don't be afraid! They are so much more afraid with our God.
-
Yesterday's ST mentioned that the cheater's sister will be testifying against her. Not sure if it is today as they said, the PI and the sister will testify. Already heard from the PI so I guess the sister will be today. Wow, pity I am not able to be there.
-
it's his job as a lawyer..
actually, it's good that the lawyer takes all avenues to get their client off.. it is their duty no matter how messed up it is..
and if all avenues fail, we can safely say that the person is totally guilty without any doubt...
here, it is good that the lawyer tries all kinds of outlandish ways to prove the point and fall flat on his face.. it would give people no doubt whatsoever that the SW is out to con people and should be shot down...
after this, i wonder if Singtel will sue her?
-
Originally posted by the Bear:
it's his job as a lawyer..
actually, it's good that the lawyer takes all avenues to get their client off.. it is their duty no matter how messed up it is..
and if all avenues fail, we can safely say that the person is totally guilty without any doubt...
here, it is good that the lawyer tries all kinds of outlandish ways to prove the point and fall flat on his face.. it would give people no doubt whatsoever that the SW is out to con people and should be shot down...
after this, i wonder if Singtel will sue her?
heehee, sorry about that! I did realise that it was his job as a lawyer so I edited that part. Now people will be wondering why you began your post with that comment so this will make it clear :) Yes, it is his job but at the same time, if he had done proper checks he would not have touched that case. After all, it took them so many years to find a lawyer, amateur or foolish enough to take the case! At first, I wondered why God allowed the case to happen. Why didn't He do something to stop this con family. But now I think this way is better. There can be no doubts now that the family is just out for easy money. I hope SingTel sues her for the money they gave her. And if any of her medical fees was paid by insurance, the insurers should sue her too. She should not be allowed to profit even $1 from this at all. -
Originally posted by Miracles&Prophecies:
I told my brother in law who is a Christian too though he is a Protestant.
He said there was similar incident in his church. One day during mass a young man went berserk. Throwing the chairs and cursing. The pastor prayed to cast out the demon which everyone thought to be possesing this man. But after awhile the man didn't get any better. The pastor then realised that this man was faking it. Then he ordered some men to 'escort' this wacky man out of the church premises. The man became normal the moment he stood outside the church premises.
Faker.
Do not be afraid to give help to those who need it. Inspite of fakers who try to capitilize on false charges do not be afraid of doing God's work. But be smarter the next time someone trying to fake it.
But I have to say that the best person to cast out any demon from a body is actually the person who is possesed himself if he is a believer in God. I'm a Catholic and one day some men sent me an evil spirit which eventually entered my body. It fled right after I cried out to God to ask for His help. So easy! Its name was Olahzhong. Moved very fast but only good at fleeing! Actually I was freed right after I cried out to God, I didn't sense the spirit fleeing though I did sense when the spirit went past my hostel room's closed door. No matter being freed is being freed. Evil spirits or demons? Don't be afraid! They are so much more afraid with our God.
protestants don't have mass.
and what u felt was oppression, not possession. if you're possessed, your mental, emotional and physical state isn't in your control.
oppression - you feel depressed, hopeless, demonic influence etc.
=)
-
Originally posted by dumbdumb!:
protestants don't have mass.
and what u felt was oppression, not possession. if you're possessed, your mental, emotional and physical state isn't in your control.
oppression - you feel depressed, hopeless, demonic influence etc.
=)
I was once told that demons cannot process christians (real ones that have Christ in them, seal with the Holy Spirit), reason is that the Holy Spirit that exist in us won't co-exist with demonic spirits.Oppress, yes; Deceive, yes; Process, no.
-
Originally posted by adetet:
But the question is whether she is really suffering from PTSD or not? Her symptoms are soo clever - only when going to Changi Hospital, then she got PTSD attacks. Otherwise, she is fine. NUH doctors say no PTSD, Changi Hospital doctors say yes.The problem with coming to an irrefutable diagnosis of PTSD is basically Psychiatry is not an exact medical science. The diagnostic evidence is primarily based on the observations & interpretations of the psychiatrists & that is where differences of opinions appear. In other words you cannot measure whether one is having PTSD or being a malingerer by doing an x'ray, brain scan or taking a blood sample. And because of these unscientific diagnostic parameters of observation/interpretations, there will always be differences among the so called expects since their conclusions are based on opinions rather than facts.
-
i guess the shrink's opinions rang pretty hollow when it was seen that the SW was okay until the hospital, the church and wherever it served her purpose to play victim..
-
Originally posted by richong 3216:
The problem with coming to an irrefutable diagnosis of PTSD is basically Psychiatry is not an exact medical science. The diagnostic evidence is primarily based on the observations & interpretations of the psychiatrists & that is where differences of opinions appear. In other words you cannot measure whether one is having PTSD or being a malingerer by doing an x'ray, brain scan or taking a blood sample. And because of these unscientific diagnostic parameters of observation/interpretations, there will always be differences among the so called expects since their conclusions are based on opinions rather than facts.
The facts are her deliberately deceitful medical history which both psychiastrists say is a lie. She is alleged to be incapable of taking care of herself - yet shown to happily go out on her own! - and not able to have coherent thought or speech - yet, can know when to exaggerate her symptoms and as reported in the ST in her affidavit, she said she laughed to herself when the priests were trying to help her. I don't think the testimony of her 2 psychiastrists for the plantiffs were of any help. Firstly, they have to more or less stick to their diagnosis - esp. since Dr Chan saw fit to keep giving her extended medical leave not to appear in court and then pronounce after a 7 months absense that she is incapable of coherent speech and thought so cannot appear in court. If the doctors do not stand by their diagnosis, you can bet they will be the next victims of the sW and her family. All this shopping around for doctors is just leading up to it. But I think the doctors have made it very clear that they were taken in for a ride when her psychiastrists said that she lied about her medical history and kept facts hidden from them. And then there is the inconsistency in her behaviour. You mean, the PSTD knows how to discriminate. So chun every time knows "Changi Hospital, Court", oh must act helpless and psycho. Go to gym, know how to wear workout clothes. Go to Temple, know how to dress and put on makeup? You see those who are really ill do not know how to discriminate. So if not really sick, if not paid to act means lying with intention to defraud. -
Btw just for sharing infor:
Opinions = say what u want to say
Facts = they are visible, measurable & specific. For example the video footage by the PI - (pretty patient/good in his work ha ha) will satisfy the aforesaid 3 parameters:
visible - u can see the picture
measurable - time, sequence etc r measured
specific - exact location, exactly how long was the activity, exactly what the SW did r all
specifically measured.
-
Originally posted by adetet:
Anyone who has been following this saga of the alleged exorcism by the Novena Church will know the outcome is a foregone conclusion - the church will be exonerated when judgement day comes.
a church is a place for worship, peace, love, compassion, kindness, fellowship & a sense of nearness to God - and for some ,$.@# being to try & bite off a slice of it's humanity for monetary gain in the name of PTSD is doomed to fail.
Btw I am not a Christian.
The facts are her deliberately deceitful medical history which both psychiastrists say is a lie. She is alleged to be incapable of taking care of herself - yet shown to happily go out on her own! - and not able to have coherent thought or speech - yet, can know when to exaggerate her symptoms and as reported in the ST in her affidavit, she said she laughed to herself when the priests were trying to help her. I don't think the testimony of her 2 psychiastrists for the plantiffs were of any help. Firstly, they have to more or less stick to their diagnosis - esp. since Dr Chan saw fit to keep giving her extended medical leave not to appear in court and then pronounce after a 7 months absense that she is incapable of coherent speech and thought so cannot appear in court. If the doctors do not stand by their diagnosis, you can bet they will be the next victims of the sW and her family. All this shopping around for doctors is just leading up to it. But I think the doctors have made it very clear that they were taken in for a ride when her psychiastrists said that she lied about her medical history and kept facts hidden from them. And then there is the inconsistency in her behaviour. You mean, the PSTD knows how to discriminate. So chun every time knows "Changi Hospital, Court", oh must act helpless and psycho. Go to gym, know how to wear workout clothes. Go to Temple, know how to dress and put on makeup? You see those who are really ill do not know how to discriminate. So if not really sick, if not paid to act means lying with intention to defraud. -
I think you forgot to post your comments Richong3216!
-
Originally posted by adetet:
I think you forgot to post your comments Richong3216!
Sorry - I did try to post but something went wrong - u c my computer is old & cranky - I'll try to make right - cheers
-
See the video on http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/STIStory_258468.html . It's the footage taken by the PI, engaged by one of the defendant's lawyer.
Very interesting. For a PTSD patient, she sure looked very healthy in the video.
-
check this out...
from Straits Times online...
Exorcism case: Sister says plaintiff's claims untrueBy Selina Lum THE younger sister of Madam Amutha Valli Krishnan, testifying for the people her sister has sued, on Thursday said she believed her sister's claims were untrue, but she still loved her.
Madam Santha Krishnan, 48, gave an account of Madam Valli's history going into peculiar trances from her teenage years. She spoke of their stormy relationship, listing a litany of instances in which Madam Valli had treated her badly.
The sisters have not spoken to each other in 14 years. Before they severed ties in 1994, she said that Madam Valli had talked about a plan to use a mental illness to get $200,000.
Madam Santha came forward to testify for the defendants after reading a newspaper report about the lawsuit last year ? she was convinced that Madam Valli had pulled off a fake trance.
'I have known her to be a money-minded person and feel that she is bringing this action against the church and other defendants for money', she said in her affidavit.
Madam Santha said her sister can speak in a man's voice and go into a trance at will, or act as if she was in one. She first saw Madam Valli, then 18, go into a trance at home ? hissing, slithering like a snake on the floor and asking for milk and eggs.
Over the years, whenever she argued with their father, Madam Valli would go into a trance. She described her relationship with Madam Valli as close but tumultous.
-
Singapore She once talked of feigning illness for gain, claims sister Selina Lum 18 July 2008 Straits Times English (c) 2008 Singapore Press Holdings Limited Estranged sibling says Madam Valli had spoken about a plan to get $200k MADAM Amutha Valli Krishnan, the woman who claimed she was traumatised by a forced 'exorcism', once planned to fake a mental illness for financial gain, her estranged sister said yesterday in court. Madam Santha Krishnan, 48, said her older sister was 'money-minded' and had faked trances before. 'I love her but it doesn't mean I have to keep quiet when she's doing something wrong,' said Madam Santha, who has not spoken to her sister in 14 years. She was a witness yesterday for several Novena churchgoers who are being sued by Madam Valli. The 52-year-old claimed she was traumatised by an 'exorcism' four years ago. 'I have known her to be a money-minded person and feel that she is bringing this action against the church and other defendants for money,' she said. Before the sisters severed ties in 1994, she said that Madam Valli had talked about a plan to use a mental illness to get $200,000. Madam Santha came forward to testify for the defendants after reading a newspaper report about the Novena Church lawsuit last year. On the witness stand, she described a stormy relationship with her sister, whom she claimed had once threatened to douse her with acid. Madam Santha said that Madam Valli began going into peculiar trances as a teen. In one, she began hissing, slithering on the floor and asking for milk and eggs. An egg was placed before her and she glided over it and stayed there for a few minutes. 'When she moved off, we saw that the egg was empty and there was a small hole in the egg.' Madam Santha said she had initially thought that the episodes were involuntary, but later realised that her sister could go into a trance at will, though she faked them sometimes. Her doubts began when she saw Madam Valli, who was raised a Hindu but says she is a Christian, get a scolding from her husband for pretending to go into a trance. Madam Santha, who said she could also go into trances, said a real episode would not happen in a place of worship of another religion. She portrayed Madam Valli as a very determined person who could sit 'like a statue' for hours to get what she wanted. She described her relationship with Madam Valli as close but tumultuous. In their teenage years, Madam Valli drove a wedge between Madam Santha and their parents. Madam Santha said that she stopped seeing her sister in 1984 after Madam Valli threatened to throw acid on her. They reconciled in 1994, but things soured again when Madam Valli became jealous of her new flat. In 1998, Madam Valli invited her sister to a religious ceremony but Madam Santha returned the invitation with a note saying: 'Consider me dead'. Madam Valli replied with a letter threatening to beat her up and Madam Santha made a police report. Madam Valli's lawyer, Mr R.S. Bajwa, accused Madam Santha of siding with the church and lying about the fake trances because she was filled with hatred for her sister. Madam Santha said that she was not angry despite their history. 'She's my sister and I still love her,' she said. [email protected] About this case HOUSEWIFE Santha Krishnan, 48, is the younger sister of Madam Amutha Valli Krishnan, who has filed a lawsuit seeking compensation for an alleged exorcism forced on her at the Novena Church on Aug 10, 2004. Madam Valli, 52, has sued the Redemptorist Order that runs the church, two priests and six churchgoers, claiming she was traumatised by it. Madam Santha is testifying for three of the churchgoers. Her account of Madam Valli going into snake-like trances supports the defendants' version of events. The hearing resumes on Monday with psychiatrists for the defence expected to take the stand.
-
Richong3216 – your comments somehow embedded in my post so your pc not so old lah :) She is even snakier than I thought! Erm… Bajwa objected to the PI mislabelling the title of the video. Obviously Bajwa doesn’t believe in ‘a rose by any other name’. So to satisfy his stringent requirements, the title should be correctly and professionally labelled as “SNAKY MALINGERER�. All along, I refered to her as SW (snake woman), alamak, I also realised that I was wrong. It should be SM! Thanks for the tip Bajwa! It was good and courageous of the sister to come forward. It must have been very painful for her to do so. I noted that the SM wanted $200k in 1994. Today she is asking for more. I guess she factored in the rising cost of inflation. So she is incapable of coherent thought but can do the maths! Is she really possessed? YES, POSSESSED BY GREED.
-
The defense lawyers managed to exposed and reveal so many loopholes and inconsistency with AV & co's statements yet i realised Bajwa only keep saying stuffs like "that video is heavily biased", "you are filled with hatred for her", "you're a liar", bla bla bla..
For every sentence they give, he opposed to it by saying that they lied and are siding with the Church / Father.
Blood boiling liao.. Hope she really gets what she deserves..
-
Originally posted by mamamamama:
The defense lawyers managed to exposed and reveal so many loopholes and inconsistency with AV & co's statements yet i realised Bajwa only keep saying stuffs like "that video is heavily biased", "you are filled with hatred for her", "you're a liar", bla bla bla..
For every sentence they give, he opposed to it by saying that they lied and are siding with the Church / Father.
Blood boiling liao.. Hope she really gets what she deserves..
u catholic?