Curious - Any Christian-turned-Buddhist converts here?
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Are you sure you are a Buddhist and not a IC-Buddhist or a Chinese folks practitioner? Many people claim to worship gods but yet claim that they are Buddhists. This is not true. To be a Buddhist you must at least take refuge in the Three Treasures: Buddha, Dharma, Sangha.Originally posted by James1:Well, as what u mention about, it's call "The Holy Trinity"...Its the same as it is 3 in 1. But for Buddism, there are so many different kinds, i was a buddism before i converted into christianity. In temple, you confirm plus chop chop see many different kinds of status of something else or someone... -
Hmm... but that is not part of the Buddhist practice. Generally we do not worship worldly deities... we only pay respect/reverence to them. In fact we do not worship anyone... we just take refuge in the Three Treasures, and learn from the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, and practise to attain Enlightenment.Originally posted by shade343:well....I think the reason why we worship and pray to God is because we all need guidiance from them.
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If Im not wrong, Gautama Bhudda is a Higly Enlightened Soul but not a god. He has acheived the highest level of enlightenment which man can acheived. But If not wrong, he is almost Godlike...note that I use the word almost.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:There is one thing to note though.... Buddhists do not consider Buddha as a god, or an incarnation of a god or God - although right before his birth on planet Earth, he was the teacher of the gods in Tushita heaven. (Maitreya Bodhisattva took over his 'seat' after Shakyamuni Buddha came down to attain Buddhahood)
Why is this so? Because gods do not necessarily mean they are liberated from Samsara... or are enlightened. Meaning... after millions/billions of years, they will still have to undergo rebirth. There are Brahmas who think otherwise that they enjoy eternal life, but such Brahmas are disillusioned after speaking to the Buddha. One of them is the Maha Brahma (there are many other Brahmas with illusion of being the highest/eternal): http://buddhism.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=141185 -
Are you sure? Im a bit puzzled now...Bhuddist dont pray to Gods? Hmm...this is puzzling...nvm...I shall ask and find out more before replying to you on this statement...Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Hmm... but that is not part of the Buddhist practice. Generally we do not worship worldly deities... we only pay respect/reverence to them. In fact we do not worship anyone... we just take refuge in the Three Treasures, and learn from the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, and practise to attain Enlightenment. -
Correct.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Hmm... but that is not part of the Buddhist practice. Generally we do not worship worldly deities... we only pay respect/reverence to them. In fact we do not worship anyone... we just take refuge in the Three Treasures, and learn from the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, and practise to attain Enlightenment.
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Because of the widespread folks practise in Singapore, somehow people have the perceptions that Buddhists do pray to gods... it is not true though.Originally posted by shade343:Are you sure? Im a bit puzzled now...Bhuddist dont pray to Gods? Hmm...this is puzzling...nvm...I shall ask and find out more before replying to you on this statement...
It'll be good that you find out more -
Enlightenment surpasses all realms of existences, because all realms of existences even up to the Heavens still belong to Samsara.Originally posted by shade343:If Im not wrong, Gautama Bhudda is a Higly Enlightened Soul but not a god. He has acheived the highest level of enlightenment which man can acheived. But If not wrong, he is almost Godlike...note that I use the word almost.
There are plenty of terms for Buddha, like Thus Come One (Ru Lai), Tathagatha, World Honoured One, one of the terms is "Teacher of Gods and Men" (Tian Ren Zhi Shi). -
Does that mean If one becomes enlightened up to the stage og Gautama budhha, he becomes higher than a God?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Enlightenment surpasses all realms of existences, because all realms of existences even up to the Heavens still belong to Samsara.
There are plenty of terms for Buddha, like Thus Come One (Ru Lai), Tathagatha, World Honoured One, one of the terms is "Teacher of Gods and Men" (Tian Ren Zhi Shi). -
Buddha would no longer be bothered by higher or lower because he is completely liberated from Samsara.Originally posted by shade343:Does that mean If one becomes enlightened up to the stage og Gautama budhha, he becomes higher than a God?
But in conventional sense, I would say yes. And even the Brahmas/Devas take refuge in the Three Treasures seeking for enlightenment. He had been incarnated as a Maha Brahma before, also as a Celestial teacher in T U S H I T A (avoiding filter) Heaven before he came down to Earth to attain Buddhahood and be our teacher. Why human realm? Because human realm is still the best place for cultivation! Heavenly realms are too joyful... not necessarily most suitable for practise. -
I am a new Christian but I can't seem to accept what's being preached to me nor what is written in the bible. I converted because I spoke to the Creator when I was down and I believe He may have healed me. But my beliefs and moral values are strangely inclined towards Buddhism. Even now, when I attend church, cell group and bible class, I can't seem to take it all in. Used to attend CHC but can't take the atmosphere there - music makes it feel like a rock concert instead of a holy event and ppl praying as if in a trance and speaking gibberish (like in a cult). That's why I avoid going to cell group now, even though I still attend church and bible class. But I don't go to CHC anymore, even though my bf does.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:BTW, surfbabe, you're Buddhist or Christian or free-thinker? (or something else?)
Think I am one big confused soul, hanging between Christianity and Buddhism. Both Jesus Christ and Buddha are probably unhappy with me now... -
What makes you say that? All Gods in Heaven work as a team. SOmetimes when you pray to Jesus, Jesus may ask bhuddha to help you out instead and vice versa. All religion is the same and teaches good. Its just that you need to open your eyes to discern what are man-made rules and God's rules.Originally posted by surfbabe:Think I am one big confused soul, hanging between Christianity and Buddhism. Both Jesus Christ and Buddha are probably unhappy with me now... -
haha..you know i think both Jesus and Buddha will always 'love' and accept you if you truely change/repent from this spot. But for a True Buddhist, we don't even condemn Mara, Devil, Hitler or Lucifer let alone you. They suffer as we do. We pity them and hope they can change. Like His Holyness DaliaLama once said, Buddhism is a religion of compassion.Originally posted by surfbabe:Think I am one big confused soul, hanging between Christianity and Buddhism. Both Jesus Christ and Buddha are probably unhappy with me now...
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I used to think that our Creator just appears to each and every one of us in different forms, so that He/She can earn our trust and faith in Him/Her. But not everyone agrees with my view. It's non-Buddhist and non-Christian way of thinking.Originally posted by shade343:What makes you say that? All Gods in Heaven work as a team. SOmetimes when you pray to Jesus, Jesus may ask bhuddha to help you out instead and vice versa. All religion is the same and teaches good. Its just that you need to open your eyes to discern what are man-made rules and God's rules.
I can't seem to accept it when I'm told again and again by Christians that good works don't earn you a place in heaven and Christianity is not about doing good. What is expected of Christians is unquestionable faith and obedience to Him, and constant prayers to Him to praise Him and honour His presence. And in return, He promises to give you a good life. That makes God appear to be so self-centred and egoistic. And He turns away those who are not Christians...so virtuous non-Christians will go to hell. That means majority of the world's population will end up in hell, doesn't it? -
What those Christians told you about non believers going to hell is complete rubbish and utter nonsense. Does it make logical sense for a good person to be condemn by God just because he did not believe in Jesus? I tell you, a person who has love and spend his time doing good deeds is better of than a person who sins and prays to jesus continuously for forgiveness.Originally posted by surfbabe:I used to think that our Creator just appears to each and every one of us in different forms, so that He/She can earn our trust and faith in Him/Her. But not everyone agrees with my view. It's non-Buddhist and non-Christian way of thinking.
I can't seem to accept it when I'm told again and again by Christians that good works don't earn you a place in heaven and Christianity is not about doing good. What is expected of Christians is unquestionable faith and obedience to Him, and constant prayers to Him to praise Him and honour His presence. And in return, He promises to give you a good life. That makes God appear to be so self-centred and egoistic. And He turns away those who are not Christians...so virtuous non-Christians will go to hell. That means majority of the world's population will end up in hell, doesn't it?
What is expected from everybody by all religions is Love. Its is that simple. Do good and be Good. This is what is expected from christianity.... NOT going around preaching that Non believers will be condemn to hell....You think Jesus is happy with the christians who do that? -
yes, this is due to mix of folk believes that Buddhism changed in thousand of years. the ORIGINAL Buddhist don't.that's why i said, i used to be a 'superstitious Buddhist (or people anyhow give name)' . i used to think like you. it's a misconception of truth. real Buddhist are more practical and theoretical than we think we know. Buddha came from a country India 2500 (500 earlier than Christ) which people in 62 religions already have enough worship of god(s). Why would He add one more? No point right? Buddha found something(Dharma) that transcend religions, science, philosophy, psychology, even quantum physic!Originally posted by shade343:Are you sure? Im a bit puzzled now...Bhuddist dont pray to Gods? Hmm...this is puzzling...nvm...I shall ask and find out more before replying to you on this statement...
can go through this detail explaination:
http://www.geocities.com/sinweiy/enlight/budrelig.pdf
when u understand what Buddhism is about, you can even understand what Chirst/All religion is all about.
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I guess that's why Buddhism has always appealed to me, even now. Because I like what I see in Buddhism and in Buddhists. There's this unmasked, genuine kindness, humility and compassion in Buddhists. What I see in Christians is - more aggressive, persistent, unquestioned zealous faith, sometimes with childish naiveness and enthusiasm. Maybe it is as what is said in the bible - that one must be like a child in order to get into the gates of heaven. No offence to Christians.Originally posted by sinweiy:But for a True Buddhist, we don't even condemn Mara, Devil, Hitler or Lucifer let alone you. They suffer as we do. We pity them and hope they can change. Like His Holyness DaliaLama once said, Buddhism is a religion of compassion. -
concur,Originally posted by shade343:What those Christians told you about non believers going to hell is complete rubbish and utter nonsense. Does it make logical sense for a good person to be condemn by God just because he did not believe in Jesus? I tell you, a person who has love and spend his time doing good deeds is better of than a person who sins and prays to jesus continuously for forgiveness.
What is expected from everybody by all religions is Love. Its is that simple. Do good and be Good. This is what is expected from christianity.... NOT going around preaching that Non believers will be condemn to hell....You think Jesus is happy with the christians who do that?
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not
be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
this also is similar with "TRUE" Buddhism. but we seldom use 'love' (ai) we use pei (compassion). As love is conditional while compassion is unconditional. We also try not to mix with puppy love, gf, bf love. these kind of love can end up in sadness. Buddhism is careful on this.
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Agree with this mostly... but one point I would like to make - Buddha is not a 'god' which lives in 'heaven'. Nirvana is not heaven, because even heaven is impermanent... eventually a deva/brahma has to undergo the impermanence of life, and be reborned... possibly even to the lower realms. On the other hand, Nirvana transcends time and space and is not to be mistaken as a physical realm, it is the state of eternal and highest bliss.Originally posted by shade343:What makes you say that? All Gods in Heaven work as a team. SOmetimes when you pray to Jesus, Jesus may ask bhuddha to help you out instead and vice versa. All religion is the same and teaches good. Its just that you need to open your eyes to discern what are man-made rules and God's rules.
All religions teaches to be good... but Buddhism also emphasize, apart from being virtuous and avoiding evil deeds, the purification of our mind and liberation from samsara... as I have mentioned before. -
I believe you have read the Kalama Sutta beforeOriginally posted by surfbabe:I guess that's why Buddhism has always appealed to me, even now. Because I like what I see in Buddhism and in Buddhists. There's this unmasked, genuine kindness, humility and compassion in Buddhists. What I see in Christians is - more aggressive, persistent, unquestioned zealous faith, sometimes with childish naiveness and enthusiasm. Maybe it is as what is said in the bible - that one must be like a child in order to get into the gates of heaven. No offence to Christians. Buddha wouldn't be unhappy that you are still undecided... you should learn the teachings, and decide for yourself -
Kalama Sutra
"Rely not on the teacher/person, but on the teaching. Rely not on the words of the teaching, but on the
spirit of the words. Rely not on theory, but on experience.Do not believe in anything simply because you
have heard it. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. Do
not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything because it is
written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and
elders. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is
conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
- the Buddha
The full version of the Kalama Sutta is a very good read also.. if you have not - http://www.cains.com/bucha/kalama.html -
Thanks for the reference.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I believe you have read the Kalama Sutta before Buddha wouldn't be unhappy that you are still undecided... you should learn the teachings, and decide for yourself -
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Yes, I am familiar with that phrase from Kalama Sutta. It seems to me that Buddhism is to democracy as Christianity is to communism. No offence though, this is a purely personal opinion so don't flame me.
[quote]Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
The full version of the Kalama Sutta is a very good read also.. if you have not - http://www.cains.com/bucha/kalama.html -
Cant help but to comment on thisOriginally posted by James1:Buddhism so many God, dunno which wan is real or fake!! Got wad, "Goddness of Mercy", "Monkey God", "Guan Yu", "Songgo"...so many. Worship here and there also the same...
Worshipping and honour Christ Jesus still at least feel the Holy Spirit in you and also changes your character from bad to good if u truly obey his will...
I know surfbabe posted a similar topic in EH, and i read comments by both sides
Noted that there is a disparity in the lvel of maturity shown by both sides
This post i quoted shows u why and what
Besides, james1 not only show a lack of maturity, he also show a characterstics inherent in significant number of christians i seen in this forum- that is lack of awareness of their surroundings, knowledge of other people, whether its faith, culture etc, and most importantly the lack of brains
I think AEN already shown clearly how much james 'know' abt people's faith before he shoots his mouth off
Another thing, james clearly show the innate nature of christians to imposing their own views on others, so what if christianity is a one-god religion? big fark? pardon the language, but u frigging practise ur own faith and stop using one rule to measure the world
Lastly, james also clearly show the lack of knowledge in his own religion, great irony but true
if st augustine of hippo and constantine at the council of nicaea didnt have their way, the monarchiasnists, the early believers in one single god, would have greatly influence the present day doctrine and theology
the christian world would have been taken over by the present day unitarianists and declare the holy trinity a three god pantheon, blasphemous in today words...
geez... -
i agree with u laurence82, mr james1Originally posted by laurence82:Cant help but to comment on this
I know surfbabe posted a similar topic in EH, and i read comments by both sides
Noted that there is a disparity in the lvel of maturity shown by both sides
This post i quoted shows u why and what
Besides, james1 not only show a lack of maturity, he also show a characterstics inherent in significant number of christians i seen in this forum- that is lack of awareness of their surroundings, knowledge of other people, whether its faith, culture etc, and most importantly the lack of brains
I think AEN already shown clearly how much james 'know' abt people's faith before he shoots his mouth off
Another thing, james clearly show the innate nature of christians to imposing their own views on others, so what if christianity is a one-god religion? big fark? pardon the language, but u frigging practise ur own faith and stop using one rule to measure the world
Lastly, james also clearly show the lack of knowledge in his own religion, great irony but true
if st augustine of hippo and constantine at the council of nicaea didnt have their way, the monarchiasnists, the early believers in one single god, would have greatly influence the present day doctrine and theology
the christian world would have been taken over by the present day unitarianists and declare the holy trinity a three god pantheon, blasphemous in today words...
geez...
it is not right to make a sweeping statement
i always believe in the newtons seconds law of motion
for every force acting upon an object ,there will be reacting forces trying to overcome it
for me to know and for u to find out -
laurence82, you sound very intellectual, must be a real thinkerOriginally posted by laurence82:Cant help but to comment on this
I know surfbabe posted a similar topic in EH, and i read comments by both sides
Noted that there is a disparity in the lvel of maturity shown by both sides
This post i quoted shows u why and what
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if st augustine of hippo and constantine at the council of nicaea didnt have their way, the monarchiasnists, the early believers in one single god, would have greatly influence the present day doctrine and theology
the christian world would have been taken over by the present day unitarianists and declare the holy trinity a three god pantheon, blasphemous in today words...
geez... Thanks for your insights.. tickles my brain up from suspended mode.
metta -
Wait wait. So you are saying Nirvana transcends the heavens and the other Gods and Celestial Beings?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Agree with this mostly... but one point I would like to make - Buddha is not a 'god' which lives in 'heaven'. Nirvana is not heaven, because even heaven is impermanent... eventually a deva/brahma has to undergo the impermanence of life, and be reborned... possibly even to the lower realms. On the other hand, Nirvana transcends time and space and is not to be mistaken as a physical realm, it is the state of eternal and highest bliss.
All religions teaches to be good... but Buddhism also emphasize, apart from being virtuous and avoiding evil deeds, the purification of our mind and liberation from samsara... as I have mentioned before. -
no , Nirvana is beyond that . it is a state of words that cannot describe , the total annihilation and never belongs to any realms and yet being with all realmsOriginally posted by shade343:Wait wait. So you are saying Nirvana transcends the heavens and the other Gods and Celestial Beings?