Curious - Any Christian-turned-Buddhist converts here?
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It is erroneous to think of Nirvana as being a 'place', a 'realm', etc... Yes, Nirvana is complete, perfect bliss. But this bliss is.. as I have said previously, trascending space and time. Therefore it is not only trascending heavens... it is trascending Samsara as a whole.Originally posted by shade343:Wait wait. So you are saying Nirvana transcends the heavens and the other Gods and Celestial Beings?
I will post an article which I feel is relevant to this.... in a seperate topic. After reading I believe you will understand what Buddha truly is, and "Nirvana". Do check it out. It is called 'Returning to the Quintessence of Buddha'. -
BTW, There are 28 Heavens listed in Buddhism. These 28 heavens can be catergorised under these: Sensual, Form, Formless.
Pls refer to: The Earth People: Genesis in Buddhism -
I tend to think Nirvarna as a state of enlightenment rather than a plcae itself. But to say acheiving Nirvarna is much higher than the heaven itself might be a bit wrong. Gautama Bhuddha who acheived the highest level of Enlightenment is not a God. He probably can only reach up to the stage where he does not need to undergo rebirth anymore. The Gods are in heaven (celestial world) are different. Some of them are of a higher rank than Bhuddha even though they did not undergo Nirvarna...Originally posted by An Eternal Now:It is erroneous to think of Nirvana as being a 'place', a 'realm', etc... Yes, Nirvana is complete, perfect bliss. But this bliss is.. as I have said previously, trascending space and time. Therefore it is not only trascending heavens... it is trascending Samsara as a whole.
I will post an article which I feel is relevant to this.... in a seperate topic. Do check it out. It is called 'Returning to the Quintessence of Buddha'. -
Nirvana is truly beyond that, however, the term 'Annihilism' or 'Nihilism' may not be approapriate to describe Nirvana. If you know Tibetan Buddhism you would be familiar with the term 'luminosity'. Nirvana is not annihilism as it is both empty, yet luminous. The point in me saying this is because some people may be 'scared off' because they think that Nirvana means that they will be annihilated, but there is nothing scary about Nirvana at all if you understand it well.Originally posted by bohiruci:no , Nirvana is beyond that . it is a state of words that cannot describe , the total annihilation and never belongs to any realms and yet being with all realms
Also if you are familiar with Nagarjuna's teachings, one of his good works is Nagarjuna's Sixty Verses of Arguments. It is mentioned many times in one way or another... Nirvana is not about eliminating something. Nothing really exist, so nothing can really be annihilated. The causes of our suffering do not really exist, so how could they be real eliminated. It is just a matter of directly seeing their real nature. -
You must understand that in order to transcend Samsara you must also trascend Dualism. Higher, Lower, - Good, or Bad, all these are transcended and holds no relevancy to Nirvana.Originally posted by shade343:I tend to think Nirvarna as a state of enlightenment rather than a plcae itself. But to say acheiving Nirvarna is much higher than the heaven itself might be a bit wrong. Gautama Bhuddha who acheived the highest level of Enlightenment is not a God. He probably can only reach up to the stage where he does not need to undergo rebirth anymore. The Gods are in heaven (celestial world) are different. Some of them are of a higher rank than Bhuddha even though they did not undergo Nirvarna...
Just a day ago I have posted a verse in the 'Buddhist Daily Verse' topic, here it is -
False-imagination teaches that such things as light and shade, long and short, black and white are different and are to be discriminated; but they are not independent of each other; they are only different aspects of the same thing, they are terms of relation and not of reality. Conditions of existence are not of a mutually exclusive character; in essence things are not two but one.
Shakyamuni Buddha
> The Lankavatara Sutra
We can also say, 'Yin' and 'Yang' are not seperate, they are not two. Similarly, the core teachings of Taoism/Lao Tzu is also Non-dualism. (IMHO Lao Tzu is also a highly realised Master)
Once one at least attains the Arhant stage - he can enter into Nirvana and not be reborned in any of the samsaric realms, including the 3 Planes of 28 heavens I have mentioned above. Those with seeds of Bodhicitta however, works towards achieving the perfect and complete Enlightenment/Buddhahood; Annutarasamyaksambodhi, as a Bodhisattva.
There is no more highest stage than Buddha - as Buddha have attained Anuttarasamyaksambodhi. There are Mahabodhisattvas who appears in Samsara in other forms, including gods, even in other teachings, (pls see Chapter 25 Lotus Sutra on Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva[Guan Yin]) but they have not taught the ultimate truth. Because gods, Heavens, are still Samsara, still undergo impermanence, they cannot be considered as the highest; Ultimate truth. -
I, the great Seer, am the protector and father of all beings, and all creatures who, childlike, are captivated by the pleasures of the triple world, are my sons.
- Saddharma Pundarika Sutra
Btw, Buddha proclaimed his Supremacy right at the beginning of his life as a baby. I would like to relate to a brief introduction to the birth of Shakyamuni Buddha, especially the part starting from "The birth of the Prince":
Life Of Buddha, The Invitation of the Gods
Our Bodhisatta (1) was born in Tusita Heaven (2) as a Deva (3) by the name of Svetaketu. The Devas in Tusita Heaven were happy. The time had come for the Bodhisatta to be born in the world for the last time. The Devas invited the Bodhisatta to be born on earth.
The Bodhisatta looked down at the world to make sure that the five requirements necessary for His final birth in the world were met. These five requirements are as follows:
1. The right time - The life span of human beings at a time a Buddha is born is between 100 and 100,000 years. If the life span is very short, human beings want to enjoy their short life to the fullest and tend to be very fond of material things. If the life span is very long, they tend to forget the impermanence of life. At this time the Bodhisatta found that the life span was one hundred and twenty years.
2. The right continent - All Buddhas are born in India (known as Jumbudipa at the time of the Buddha). This is because the people of India are spiritually more advanced than people in other countries, and so are more ready for a Buddha.
3. The right area - The city of Kapilavatthu was chosen as the city of the future Buddha, as there was a just and good king and many righteous people living there.
4. The right caste - A Buddha is always born in a high caste - Either a royal caste or a priestly caste. This is necessary, as often persons born in a low caste are not accepted by society.
5. The right mother - The mother of a Buddha has to be very pure. She is a person who has resolved to be a mother of a Buddha and observed the five precepts for many countless past lives. The chosen mother was Queen Mahaa Maayaa, wife of King Suddhodana of Kapilavatthu.
The Bodhisatta saw that the five requirements were met.
(1). Bodhisatta - One on his way to perfection. This is the name given to a person who is trying to be a Buddha.
(2). Tusita Heaven - One of the seven happy planes of life. The Devas in the Tusita Heaven have a life span of 576,000,000 human years. All Bodhisattas who have completed the ten perfections await the right time for their last birth in Tusita Heaven. The next Buddha, the Maithreya Buddha, is at present a Deva by the name of Natha in the Tusita Heaven.
(3). Devas - Heavenly beings known in English as gods or divine beings.
Queen Mahaa Maayaa's dream
One night Queen Mahaa Maayaa had a dream. She dreamt that the Devas from the four directions of the earth took her to Lake Anotatta on top of the Himalayan mountain. She was bathed in the lake and dressed in heavenly clothes and ornaments. A white baby elephant carrying a white lotus flower in its trunk trumpeted, and after circling around her three times, entered her body.
The next morning she told King Suddhodana of her dream. He consulted some wise men who, on hearing the dream said, "The Queen will have a wise and noble baby boy." The king and queen were very happy for they had no children and were longing for a child.
The birth of a Prince
According to the custom of that time, Queen Mahaa Maayaa decided to visit her mother so that she could be with her at the time of the birth of her baby.
On the way she stopped at the Lumbini Pleasure Garden to rest. Under a sweet-scented Sal tree, on a full moon day in the month of May, in the year 623 B.C., the Prince was born miraculously from her right hips, and Queen Mahaa Maayaa suffered no pain in the process.
The baby Prince took seven steps, and a lotus flower burst through the ground to receive His feet. He made the following announcement:
"Aggo hamasmi lokassa - "I am the Chief in the world
Jettho hamasmi lokassa - There is no equal to me
Settho hamasmi lokassa - I am Supreme
Ayamanthima jathi - This is my last birth
Natthi dani punabbhavo. - " No rebirth for me."
It is said in the Anagata Vamsa that the next Buddha, Maithreya, will make a similar announcement at His birth.
The ministers took the Queen and the baby back to Kapilavatthu and King Suddhodana. Many wise men came to see the baby. They said that one day the Prince would either be a King of the world or a Supreme Buddha. The baby Prince was named Siddhaartha Gotama. Siddhaartha means "wish fulfilled" and Gotama was His family name.
Seven days after the birth of the Prince, Queen Mahaa Maayaa died. She was born as a Deva by the name of Matu-deva putta in the Tusita Heaven. Her sister, Mahaa Prajaapathi Gotami, took care of the Prince. -
Amtf shade343,Originally posted by shade343:Wait wait. So you are saying Nirvana transcends the heavens and the other Gods and Celestial Beings?
In a way samsara is a 'places/realms' when people/sentient beings still "pretends" to be "Acting" in a dramas. In one act, one pretends to be Creator, then in another scene, one pretend to be a God, then in another scene, one pretend to be a human...etcs. Samsara is like a dream. When one thinks that the Dream is real, and attached to it they suffer. But Buddha is said to be Awaken from all these pretending and false dream/illusions. You watch Matrix? It's like that, Neo also woke up from a pretending enviroment. How? By ending attachment itself.
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Ordinally bliss when ended, suffering occur there after.
Know that suffering is real, and bliss is false. As suffering don't become bliss, but bliss can become suffering. Unchanging is real, while changing is false.
Example, when eating good food. Eating my favourite food is bliss.
But, if were to continue to eat bowl after bowl of the same food, it becomes a suffering. This is how bliss become suffering. Bliss if continuous become suffering. But suffering if continuous will not be bliss.
Example, when hungry, i am experiencing suffering. If continue to stay hungry for 7 days, i will experience more suffering, not bliss. So suffering is real, and bliss is false.
Now neither suffering nor bliss is a good experience/realm. But one cannot sustain this state as time waits for no man.
Example when we are born, we are already walking towards the deathbed. Who can stop moving? None.
But it's said that in the Land of Ulitmate Bliss(aka Nirvana), there's no all above three forms of sufferings.
In this samsara world there's duality in one. Suffering and bliss is Prejudiced view for one side or the other. If Land of Ulitmate Bliss has no suffering, then Bliss is also gone. As both are on the same side. One gone, the other will too have to go with it. It's when both suffering and bliss is ended/sever that bring forth the Land of Ulitmate Bliss. Thus called True bliss/happiness. If there happiness, then happiness is suffering and false. Land of Ulitmate Bliss is indeed inconcievable! Inconcievable mean cannot be said, nor cannot be think nor cannot be percieve.
The Infinity Life and Amitabha sutra describes Land of Ulitmate Bliss , but it is the Avatamsaka Sutra that is most detail.
/\amtf -
okOriginally posted by F Bunta:You have a tendency to write essay ... can summarise in 1 paragraph or not?
crap! -
i tends to say if we are talking about the dharma , my explanation is not correct , but it is the first level we talking aboutOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:You must understand that in order to transcend Samsara you must also trascend Dualism. Higher, Lower, - Good, or Bad, all these are transcended and holds no relevancy to Nirvana.
Just a day ago I have posted a verse in the 'Buddhist Daily Verse' topic, here it is -
False-imagination teaches that such things as light and shade, long and short, black and white are different and are to be discriminated; but they are not independent of each other; they are only different aspects of the same thing, they are terms of relation and not of reality. Conditions of existence are not of a mutually exclusive character; in essence things are not two but one.
Shakyamuni Buddha
> The Lankavatara Sutra
We can also say, 'Yin' and 'Yang' are not seperate, they are not two. Similarly, the core teachings of Taoism/Lao Tzu is also Non-dualism. (IMHO Lao Tzu is also a highly realised Master)
Once one at least attains the Arhant stage - he can enter into Nirvana and not be reborned in any of the samsaric realms, including the 3 Planes of 28 heavens I have mentioned above. Those with seeds of Bodhicitta however, works towards achieving the perfect and complete Enlightenment/Buddhahood; Annutarasamyaksambodhi, as a Bodhisattva.
There is no more highest stage than Buddha - as Buddha have attained Anuttarasamyaksambodhi. There are Mahabodhisattvas who appears in Samsara in other forms, including gods, even in other teachings, (pls see Chapter 25 Lotus Sutra on Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva[Guan Yin]) but they have not taught the ultimate truth. Because gods, Heavens, are still Samsara, still undergo impermanence, they cannot be considered as the highest; Ultimate truth.
there are piecewise advice for the first level of beginner then we proceed to the next
i am not saying An eternal now is wrong , well there are reservations
Remember Buddha doesnt wholesale the idea of nirvana to his Disciple ,at
different occasion he expound different teachings
Different school view nirvana differently ,we cannot said the theravadins adhere to total extinguishment or annihiliation is wrong
it is just like you like chinese tea,someone comes along tells u he like english tea
tea is different in name and produce , but the taste is the same and function is the same
i tends to look how well people possessed the acceptance of Buddhist wisdom
by wholesale ,in the end finding i got nothing to share .
Passing down of wisdom is looking at what learners need and not wholesale idea to one , causing indigestion and unable connected to practice.
that is what Buddhist wisdom is seeing sentient beings about .
I would say if that wholesale of teaching to people is good
?
then why are talking here
we should be starting on our own path to enlightenment!!!
all the millions of sutra points to our heart,and we can never be liberated until we made the insurmountable effort to practice . -
Total extinction/annihilism of Greed, Hatred, Ignorance, Self-view, Fetters & afflictions, Sufferings, yes. But it is not to be mistaken as a state of utter Annihilism/Nihilism.Originally posted by bohiruci:i tends to say if we are talking about the dharma , my explanation is not correct , but it is the first level we talking about
there are piecewise advice for the first level of beginner then we proceed to the next
i am not saying An eternal now is wrong , well there are reservations
Remember Buddha doesnt wholesale the idea of nirvana to his Disciple ,at
different occasion he expound different teachings
Different school view nirvana differently ,we cannot said the theravadins adhere to total extinguishment or annihiliation is wrong
it is just like you like chinese tea,someone comes along tells u he like english tea
tea is different in name and produce , but the taste is the same and function is the same
i tends to look how well people possessed the acceptance of Buddhist wisdom
by wholesale ,in the end finding i got nothing to share .
Passing down of wisdom is looking at what learners need and not wholesale idea to one , causing indigestion and unable connected to practice.
that is what Buddhist wisdom is seeing sentient beings about .
I would say if that wholesale of teaching to people is good ?
then why are talking here
we should be starting on our own path to enlightenment!!!
all the millions of sutra points to our heart,and we can never be liberated until we made the insurmountable effort to practice .
Theravada Buddhism maintains that Nibbana is not non-existence, but it is a transcendental entity, independently existent. It is an external, unchangeable state which exists by itself. Buddhaghosa of Srilanka rejects the view that Nibbana is non-existent. According to him, a mere fact that Nibbana is not apprehended by an ordinary man does not prove that Nibbana does not exist. Nibbana can be seen by the right means (the way of morality, concentration and wisdom) (Vism. XVI. 50
. Nibbana is not non-existence; rather it is positive, permanent reality. To substantiate his view, Buddhaghosa quotes the Buddha's words:
Monks, there is an unborn, an unbecome, an unmade, an unconditioned. If that unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned were not, an escape from what is born, become, made, conditioned would not be apparent. But, since, monks, there is an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, therefore, the escape from what is born, become, made, conditioned is apparent. (Ud. 80-81).
Thus, Nibbana as conceived in early Buddhism is not non-existence or utter annihilation. It is the realm of being, which transcends the phenomenal world (Mererk, 1988, p. 162).
http://www.mcu.ac.th/article/html/dissertation_47/11dissertation47.html -
i too am inclined to this shade's way of thinking. But will let you know when i find the proof.)Originally posted by shade343:I tend to think Nirvarna as a state of enlightenment rather than a place itself. -
i too find the explanations by christian friends to this matter a kink in my mindstream.Originally posted by surfbabe:I used to think ....
.
.
.
I can't seem to accept it when I'm told again and again by Christians that good works don't earn you a place in heaven... And He turns away those who are not Christians...so virtuous non-Christians will go to hell. That means majority of the world's population will end up in hell, doesn't it?
But i'd like to ask, what's wrong with going to hell?
Reminds me of a joke by ajahn Brahm at one of his talks a couple of yrs back.
One funny monk.. some might call him.)
Why the fear of hell?
What is hell?
Anyone been to hell lately?
If nice ppl go to hell, would it be a nicer place?
What does a buddha or bodhisattva think about going to hell?
Something to think about for many
Something to try for some
Something certain for the ready -
this is the first explaination i find very good.Originally posted by shade343:
I tend to think Nirvarna as a state of enlightenment rather than a place itself. [/quote]Originally posted by soemt:
i too am inclined to this shade's way of thinking. But will let you know when i find the proof.)
Nibbana
http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhism/dhammananda/102.htm
[quote]Nibbana is not nothingness or extinction. Would the Buddha leave his family and kingdom and preach for 45 years, all for nothingness?
If Nibbana is not a place, where is Nibbana then? Nibbana exists just as fire exists. However, there is no storage place for fire or for Nibbana. But when you rub pieces of wood together, then the friction and heat are the proper conditions for fire to arise. Likewise, when the nature in man's mind is such that he is free from all defilements, then Nibbanic bliss will appear.one can use fire as an analogy for Nirvana.
think burning is a form of suffering. when you end the fuel for fire than fire stopped becoming. yet it doesn't mean fire is not there. it just stop becoming.
fire or Nirvana is everywhere without suffering.
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Sorry for intruding ...
There is no Fire! -
People who quote the Kalama sutta usually ignore this one:Originally posted by surfbabe:Kalama sutta .
""Excellent, Sariputta. Excellent. Those who have not known, seen, penetrated, realized, or attained it by means of discernment would have to take it on CONVICTION [shraddha, i.e. faith] in others that the faculty of conviction... persistence... mindfulness... concentration... discernment, when developed & pursued, gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its goal & consummation"
-- Pubbakotthaka Sutta
You have to understand the Kalamas are non-Buddhists and very sceptical minded, who have not made up their mind who to follow [of course by the end of the sutta, they follow the Buddha], this passage i cite here is for followers of the Buddha. Who have made up their minds to follow the Buddha.
Faith [shraddha] is one of the five faculties and one of the five powers, it is a postive mental factor found in all wholesome minds in the desire realm.
So we are no teaching people to be doubtful, as doubtful is also one of the fifth posions.
MCK had talk about the word 'superstition' before many times in Teacher Li Bing nang's "Most Important Points of Buddhism". What's superstition? It's not knowing Truth. In regards to invisible spirits etcs. We don't know if the truth. When people says they exists and you follow and says they exists --this is superstitious. On the other hand when people say they don't exists and you follow and says they don't exists ---this is superstitious as well!
One blindly believe they exist while the other blindly believe they don't exists. Both are superstitious. The latter is no better - superstitious of superstitious! Then what's not superstition? It's when the Ultimate truth is understood and witness by oneself, then it's not superstition. How to go about understanding truth? By Noble Eightfold's Right Meditation.
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You only go to hell if your soul is so incorrigible despite many attempts by God to correct you.Originally posted by soemt:i too find the explanations by christian friends to this matter a kink in my mindstream.
But i'd like to ask, what's wrong with going to hell?
Reminds me of a joke by ajahn Brahm at one of his talks a couple of yrs back.
One funny monk.. some might call him.)
Why the fear of hell?
What is hell?
Anyone been to hell lately?
If nice ppl go to hell, would it be a nicer place?
What does a buddha or bodhisattva think about going to hell?
Something to think about for many
Something to try for some
Something certain for the ready -
Hey...you havent answered my question....Originally posted by sinweiy:Amtf shade343,
In a way samsara is a 'places/realms' when people/sentient beings still "pretends" to be "Acting" in a dramas. In one act, one pretends to be Creator, then in another scene, one pretend to be a God, then in another scene, one pretend to be a human...etcs. Samsara is like a dream. When one thinks that the Dream is real, and attached to it they suffer. But Buddha is said to be Awaken from all these pretending and false dream/illusions. You watch Matrix? It's like that, Neo also woke up from a pretending enviroment. How? By ending attachment itself.
/\
Ending attachment,to me, is a prerequisite to attaining Nirvarna. -
Yes, we must understand the concept of karma. Everyone is borned according to karma, left according to karma. Wholesome karma leads to rebirth in Higher realms (asuras, humans devas), Unwholesome karma leads to rebirth in Lower realms (hell, spirits, animals). Pure karma leads to nirvana/pure lands.Originally posted by shade343:You only go to hell if your soul is so incorrigible despite many attempts by God to correct you.
What Buddha, bodhisattvas, enlightened saints, gods, can do is to offer advise. No divine, gods or Brahmas who claim to be God can ultimately alter your karmic destiny (even though scripture states that some claim otherwise) - only yourself can. Other than the 28 heavens and 18 hells, there are other realms - rebirth in Spirit, Animal, Asura, and Human realm.
It is more easy to attain a Human birth than a celestial existence - a human birth requires that you keep the 5 precepts in order to avoid accumulating unwholesome karma (Refrain from (1) killing, (2) stealing ,(3) lying, (4) sexual misconduct, (5) consumption of intoxicants.), but a celestial birth in heaven requires you to accumulate virtuous karma by practising the 10 Virtuous Deeds in your life: Refrain from (1) killing, (2) stealing, (3) sexual misconduct , (4) false speech, (5) frivolous and meaningless talk, (6) double-tongue or tale-bearing, (7) slanderous speech, ( greed, (9) ill will, (10) ignorance or perverted views, in addition practising generosity, and so on.
And about Nirvana/liberation from all realms? It is only by cultivating Buddhadharma, practising purification, can we be able to achieve that.
A link to the 31 forms of existences in Buddhism with descriptions: http://buddhism.sgforums.com/?action=post_display&post_id=2270412 -
Oh no... that linked topic has expired. But nevermind, there is a similar website here
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that's the uniqueness that seperate other religions.Originally posted by shade343:Hey...you havent answered my question....
Ending attachment,to me, is a prerequisite to attaining Nirvarna.
that say:
what's ignorance/avidyâ?
Ignorance is You think you know.
how to sever ignorance?
All are not known is severing ignorance is Nirvana.
Diamond or Heart sutra would be an interesting read.
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So you are saying Nirvana transcends the heavens and the other Gods and Celestial Beings?
yes, and it's not by 1, 2 times. but Buddha said by hundred thousand kotis(10^7) of times inferior.
Comparison between heavens and the Western Pure Land(aka Nirvana )[19] The Buddha said to Ananda, "What you say is true. Even though a
however that's not to mean it's boasting or anything. true happiness is only attain when you let everything go. that say when others want to be number One(ego), we want to be Number Zero, where got same?.
king is the noblest of all men and has a regal countenance, if he is
compared with a wheel-turning monarch, he will appear as base and
inferior as a beggar beside a king. Likewise, however excellent and
unrivaled the majestic appearance of such a monarch may be, [272a] if
he is compared with the lord of the Heaven of the Thirty-three Gods,
he will also appear incomparably inferior, even ten thousands kotis
of times more so. Again, if this heavenly lord is compared with the
lord of the Sixth Heaven, he will appear a hundred thousand kotis of
times inferior. If the lord of the Sixth Heaven is compared with a
bodhisattva or a shravaka dwelling in the land of Amitayus, his
countenance and appearance will be far from matching those of the
bodhisattva or shravaka, being a thousand million kotis of times or
even incalculable times inferior."
think we also got to differentiate between mere happiness and real happiness. real happiness is letting go of clinging to everything. clinging to things or that everything is mine makes one fear of loosing. where got happy? it's when all is given to all sentient beings that one had nothing to loose, that makes true happiness.
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Thus learnt from IRC friend Thusness: Nirvanic bliss is total clarity.
If you are familiar of the meditate states of 1 to 8 jhanas, the lower forms of jhana contain characters like "physical ecstasy", to a more soothing state of joy... and 4th jhana is total equanimity. However 4th jhana is still not Nirvana, it may bring you to the realm of the 4th Jhana heavens, but nevertheless it is still not Nirvana. Nirvanic bliss is completely beyond dualism of self and others, time and space. Nirvana is also so called the "9th Jhana" sometimes, although it is neither Form Jhana nor Formless Jhana. It is beyond samsara.
Update: it is not necessary to go through all Jhanas in order to achieve Nirvana. -
Interestingly. there are many westerners delve into Buddhism and many are now silently and quietly coming to understand and appreciate one of the most peaceful religion and it's wisdom.
There are a few like British-Australian Ajahn Brahm and from Amercia Ven. Thubten Chodron. And infact, many in States are turing into vegetarians out of compassions and health, although not all are Buddhist. It is NOT about labelling ourselve as Christian/Buddhist or ... . What is more important is about what we think, we do and we say. Does it upset the harmonial balance with our (or other) family, friends, country and cultural roots?
The greatest religion of all is nothing but compassion, it is really about tolerance, acceptance and forgiveness. It builds on people relationships. It is from the core essentials inside each and every one of us, not something external. Gandhi, HH Dailai Lama, Mother Theresa are some of the extraordinary people we can learn from. I really like this phrase, I think it was from Gandhi, "God has no religion".
We can enthrone the greatest mightiest entity, but still there are wars, accidents, sickness, rapes, violences, drugs, cancers, illnesses, diseases, natural disasters and terrorism. If you have already noticed, they are growing at an alarming speed. If we just sit back and do some soul searching, it will not be difficult to realise that "We have found our enemy, and he is us". We are living in a world where opposite polarities always strike and always in a interconnected web of dependencies. We are the result of our very own actions. In short it is "Ecosystem". You can choose to ignore this, but tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, the next day and next.... it will still happen.
If we do not not fix what is inside us, we can never fix what is outside. The only only probable thing we can help ourselve, is to solve the mysteries of our mind. Regardless of which religion we belong to. -
Originally posted by concerned_man:
Good
Interestingly. there are many westerners turn towards Buddhism and many are now silently and quietly coming to understand and appreciate one of the most peaceful religion and it's wisdom.
There are a few like British-Australian Ajahn Brahm and from Amercia Ven. Thubten Chodron. And infact, many in States are turing into vegetarians out of compassions and health, although not all are Buddhist. It is NOT about labelling ourselve as Christian/Buddhist or ... . What is more important is about what we think, we do and say. Does it upset the harmonial balance with our (or other) family, friends, country and cultural roots?
The greatest religion of all is nothing but compassion, it is really about tolerance and forgiveness. It builds on people relationships. It is really the core essential from within each and every one of us, not something external. Gandhi, HH Dailai Lama, Mother Theresa are some of the extraordinary people we can learn from. I really like this phrase, I think it was from Gandhi, "God has no religion".
We can enthrone the greatest mightiest entity, but still there are wars, accidents, sickness, rapes, violences, drugs, cancers, illnesses, diseases, natural disasters and terrorism. If you have already noticed, they are growing at an alarming speed. If we just sit back and do some soul searching, it will not be difficult to realise that "[b]We have found our enemy, and he is us". We are living in a world where opposite polarities always strike and always in a interconnected web of dependencies. We are the result of our very own actions. In short it is "Ecosystem". You can choose to ignore this, but tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, the next day and next.... it will still happen.
If we do not not fix what is inside us, we can never fix what is outside. The only only probable thing we can help ourselve, is to solve the mysteries of our mind. Regardless of which religion you belongs to.
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But one thing to note (just fyi, not against your points), a Buddhist is not a Buddhist just by labelling: but by taking refuge in the Three Treasures, which are the Buddha, Dharma, Sangha.
But I agree with you that Buddhism is about wisdom, and definitely Buddhism is rising very quickly especially among the Western countries Anyway, there are a lot of Western venerables now, the ones you mentioned are only the more famous ones.
BTW, if anyone has been reading the newspaper, Ajahn Brahm is coming to give a talk this weekend