Question on Old Changi Hospital
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maybe The Thirty-one Planes of Existence can explain the Buddhism concept a bit better.Originally posted by shade343:You are constraint to the teachings of bhuddhism. If you did some research, you will find out that each other religion also speaks of a Supreme God. A creator.
What montheistic? Since when I said there is only 1 god?
I said there is a Supreme God. And below it are the many other Gods and celestials beings.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html
A personal Supreme God is in Plane (14) Great Brahmas (Maha brahma). Other gods are from plane 6 to 13.
Above it all there are beings that starts to cultivate mediative state with different levels to transcend creations. Buddha is the One who would transcend all 31 planes, even for the FORMLESS plane of (31)Neither-perception-nor-non-perception (nevasaññanasaññayatanupaga deva). It's transcending the notion of 'Creation' itself.
In the charts, we can oso see the 'Cause of rebirth'.
All this are real std teachings of Buddhism.
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so bhuddha is higher than some of the gods?Originally posted by sinweiy:maybe The Thirty-one Planes of Existence can explain the Buddhism concept a bit better.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html
A personal Supreme God is in Plane (14) Great Brahmas (Maha brahma). Other gods are from plane 6 to 13.
Above it all there are beings that starts to cultivate mediative state with different levels to transcend creations. Buddha is the One who would transcend all 31 planes, even for the FORMLESS plane of (31)Neither-perception-nor-non-perception (nevasaññanasaññayatanupaga deva). It's transcending the notion of 'Creation' itself.
In the charts, we can oso see the 'Cause of rebirth'.
All this are real std teachings of Buddhism.
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Buddha/Bodhisattva(s) can go to any of the planes (except formless realms) to do some teachings of Ultimate Truth.Originally posted by shade343:so bhuddha is higher than some of the gods?
can say yes can say no. how to definite 'higher'? Buddha also think lowly of Himself. He's very Humble also. His humbleness is higher.
another link on the planes:
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~alankhoo/DharmaRealm.htm
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
yes, though in the Tibetan Book of Death, a kind of Judgement do occured at the bardo state or when one dies. but this does not mean it's prosecuted by God or anyone, it's just the working of the Universal law, 'You reap what you sow'. There was a man who had a chance to visit the hell, and he asked the yama king that the punishment of so and so is too cruel and ask whether if Yama king can take it out. Yama king took him to see for himself. When he where to the chamber
1. There is no almighty God in Buddhism. There is no one to hand out rewards or punishments on a supposedly Judgement Day.
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, the man cannot see the punishment been held. Why? because it's all in the manifestation of the guilty mind. If your mind is okay, you wouldn't be able to see it.3. No saviour concept in Buddhism. A Buddha is not a saviour who saves others by his personal salvation. Although a Buddhist seeks refuge in the Buddha as his incomparable guide who indicates the path of purity, he makes no servile surrender. A Buddhist does not think that he can gain purity merely by seeking refuge in the Buddha or by mere faith in Him. It is not within the power of a Buddha to wash away the impurities of others.
In Shin Buddhism or Pureland Buddhism, Faith however can do make to it's fullest usage. it's the meaning of Jie1 ce2(empowerment) or Other power to support our Self Power. How it works is as below:
The Commentary on the Pure Land Treatise (‰��¶˜_’�) states:
Question: The Sutra on the Working of Karma states, "The working of karma is like a scale; the heavier side is drawn down first and foremost." The Sutra of Contemplation on the Buddha of Immeasurable Life speaks of a person who has committed the five grave offenses and the ten transgressions, and is possessed of all evils. He is to fall into the evil courses and undergo incalculable pain for many kalpas. At the point of death, he happens to be guided by a true teacher and comes to say Namu-muryoju-butsu (Namu-amida-butsu). When, in this way, he gives voice to it with a sincere mind without interruption, completing ten utterances, he attains birth in the Pure Land of happiness, immediately enters the truly settled of the Mahayana, and ultimately attains nonretrogression. He becomes free forever from all the pain of the three courses. How is this to be understood in terms of the principle of "the heavier side is drawn down first and foremost"?
Further, from distant kalpas in the past we have been committing all manner of acts. These acts, being defiled dharmas, are bound to the three realms. If, as you say, one immediately emerges from the three realms by merely thinking on Amida Buddha with ten utterances, how are we to understand the meaning of "binding karmic acts"?
Answer: If, giving weight to the five grave offenses, the ten transgressions, and other binding karmic acts, and considering the ten utterances of the person of the lowest grade of the lowest rank to be trivial, you say that drawn by karmic evil one should first and foremost fall into hell or be bound to the three realms, then we must consider lightness and heaviness here in terms of principles. This is a matter of mind, of active condition, and of settledness; it is not a matter of length of time or of quantity.
What is meant by "matter of mind"? The person who commits such karmic evil does so based on his own false and inverted views. The ten utterances, however, arise when a true teacher, consoling him by various means, makes him hear the dharma that is true reality. The latter is real, the former is unreal. How can there be any comparison?
Suppose there is a room that has been dark for a thousand years. If light reaches it, however briefly, the room immediately becomes bright. How can the darkness say that, having occupied the room for a thousand years, it refuses to leave? This is termed "matter of mind."
What is meant by "matter of active condition"? The person who commits such evil does so based on his own mind of falsity, depending on sentient beings who have come into existence from blind passions and falsity. The ten utterances arise based on supreme shinjin, depending on the Name embodying Amida Tathagata's immeasurable, true, real, and pure virtues, which is the adornment of compassionate means. Suppose there is a man who has been struck by a poison arrow. At the point of entry, the flesh is torn and the bone is broken. But if he hears a drum to which the dispelling elixir has been applied, the arrow will immediately be extracted and the poison expelled. It is like this [Note]. How can it be said that, because the arrow is deep and the poison virulent, even though the drumbeat is heard, it is impossible for the arrow to be withdrawn or the venom removed? This is termed "matter or active condition."
What is meant by "matter of settledness"? The person who commits such evil does so based on thoughts of something coming after and of other things interrupting. The ten utterances arise based on thoughts of nothing coming after and nothing interrupting. This is termed settledness.
When we consider these three matters, we see that the ten utterances carry weight. What is heavy draws down first and foremost and enables beings to depart from the three realms of existence. The two sutra passages have a single meaning.
Amituofo.
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If you have done your search into Buddhist teachings, you would have found that every (authentic) Buddhist teachers speak the same thing regarding Buddha Nature. They only use different names to describe it - e.g clear light nature, luminosity, true self, etc. They speak from direct experience.Originally posted by shade343:And once again to remind you, the text are the views of the dalai lama. Anyway, why are you coming up with this mumbo jumbo? Im not even bringing in monotheistic stuff here.
Sorry if I used the wrong term of monotheism. What I meant by Monotheism is a belief in a One Supreme God. Does not mean that other gods [celestial beings] does not exist. Even Islam, Christianity believe in celestial beings, angels, isnt it?
Oh by the way, Longchen is not a Buddhist. He is a mystic from the New Age form of spirituality. -
You are constraint to the teachings of bhuddhism. If you did some research, you will find out that each other religion also speaks of a Supreme God. A creator.
I admire your openness towards all different traditions and religions. It is not that I have not researched into different religions. I had. BTW, my master used to be a Christian pastor. My dharma teacher used to be a devoted Christian too. I myself, although never been a Christian, has read on the Christian teachings. Sinweiy was also once into Christianity. Sinweiy's master also did research into Islam. and so on.... but eventually we still into Buddhism better
What I personally find about most religions is that they are mostly dogmatic about God, their own scriptural authority, etc. I believe you understand what I mean. The mystical, contemplative traditions are far better. I believe they represent the teachings of Jesus, Prophet Muhammad, etc, better. They are not really a 'religion' either. Like for example, Christian Mysticism. Islam Sufism. Kabbalah (Judaism contemplative/mystical tradition). Although these teachings are not very commonly seen (they don't emphasize on quick evangelism nor building big churches, and not everyone is into the contemplative path). They are the ones who practise meditation and contemplation. They too, teach about the non-dual nature of God. It is therefore that they have a higher understanding of God than most of their religious counterparts.
There is a very very old Christian/Catholic tradition. Earlier than the Protestants or the Roman Catholics. It's called White Robed Monks of St. Benedict. http://www.wrmosb.org/default.html
They are also a mystical, contemplative tradition of Christianity. They even practise Zazen with Zen monks!
The Monks, in the traditional spirit of Benedictine hospitality, offer without question the Word and Sacraments to everyone who requests them. The Monks appreciate that Jesus never really said No to anyone and had only two commandments: Love God, Love Neighbor. (Matt 22:37-40, Jn 15:17)Maitaining simplicity, they are neither institutionalized nor bureaucratic. Given their monastic orientation, they appreciate God through the eyes of the early Church rather than an institutional church. They are an independent Catholic jurisdiction in the tradition of the Old Catholic Church (Brief History of the Old Catholic Church). Their clergy come from the Roman and other Catholic jurisdictions. Their general purpose is to let the world be a more compassionate place inviting peace and joy.
I will only quote some parts of Christian Mysticism:
http://members.aol.com/heraklit1/eckhart.htm
God is one.
God is pure oneness, being free of any accretive multiplicity of distinction even at a conceptual level. [Divine Consolation]
There is neither distinction in God nor in the Persons of the Trinity according to the unity of their nature. The divine nature is one, and each Person is both One and the same One as God's nature. [On the Noble Man]
God is in everything.
God is infinite in his simplicity and simple in his infinity. Therefore he is everywhere and is everywhere complete. He is everywhere on account of his infinity, and is everywhere complete on account of his simplicity. Only God flows into all things, their very essences. Nothing else flows into something else. God is in the innermost part of each and every thing, only in its innermost part. [Sermon LW XXIX]
The One descends into everything and into each single things, yet remaining the One that unites what is distinct. [Sermon LW XXIX]
God . . . is the being of all beings. [Sermon LW XXIX]
All creatures are one with God.
All things are contained in the One, by virtue of the fact that it is one. for all multiplicity is one, and is one thing, and is in and through the One. . . The One is not distinct from all things. Therefore all things in the fullness of being are in the One by virtue of its indistinction and unity. [Sermon LW XXIX]
When we know creatures in God, then that is called a `morning knowledge,' and in this way we see creatures without any distinctions, stripped of images and likeness in the Oneness which God himself is. [On the Noble Man]
It sounds familiar to the teachings of Buddhism and Taoism (particularly the Tao Te Ching). Similarly, the Islam Sufi contemplative tradition -
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http://members.aol.com/heraklit1/ibnarabi.htm
Oneness and uniqueness of God.
Praise be to God, before whose oneness there was not a before, unless the before were He, and after whose singleness there is not an after, except the after be He. He is, and there is with Him no after nor before, nor above nor below, nor far nor near, nor union nor division.[TB]
For He will not have anything to be other than He. Indeed, the other is He, and there is no otherness.[TB]
God is all things.
The Cosmos is His form. The forms of the Cosmos are the manifest Reality, He being the manifest. He is also their inner essence, being also the unmanifest. He is the first, since He was when they were not, and also the Last, since in their manifestation He is the Essence. [BW X]
The eye perceives naught but Him. We are in His presence at all times, in all states. [BW X]
God is essentially all things. He permeates through all beings created and originated. [BW X]
He is Being itself, the Essence of Being, He is the Preserver of all. In preserving all things, He is preserving His form, lest anything should assume a form other than His Form, which is not possible. [BW X]
The existence of all created things is His existence. Thou dost not see, in this world or the next, anything beside God. [TB]
God is observer and observed.
He is the observer in the observer, and the observed in the observed. [BW X] None sees Him, save Himself. None perceives Him, save Himself. By Himself he sees Himself, and by Himself he knows Himself. His Veil is part of his Oneness; nothing veils other than he. . . His Prophet is he, and his sending is He, and His word is He.[TB]
The knower and that which he knows are both one, and he who unites and that with which he unites are one, and seer and seen are one. [TB]
Identity of self and God.
Thou art not thou: thou art He. Thou never wast nor wilt be, Thou art neither ceasing to be nor still existing. Thou art He. [TB]
Thou art not what is beside God. Thou art thine own end and thine own object in thy search after thy Lord. [TB]
He who knows himself understands that his existence is not his own existence, but his existence is the existence of God. [TB]
I also do not reject the teachings of Tao Te Ching. In fact, my master, and the well-known Master Han Shan, praised Lao Tzu as a Pratyekabuddha.
Even though they sound like Tao Te Ching, as far as I know, Lao Tzu did not teach about God He only teach about the 'Unnameable Tao'. I believe Jesus Christ is also enlightened. But the reason why he taught about God is out of skillful means. Those people at that time believe in God, so he present his most profound realisation, ultimate truth of God to them. He definitely does not have the common ordinary understanding of God as most others. You can read the 'Gospel of Thomas' about this. This is only my view, Dalai Lama's views, mystics and other Buddhist's views. Christians probably don't agree with me 
Jesus says: "If those who seek to attract you say to you: 'See, the Kingdom is in heaven!' then the birds of heaven will be there before you. If they say to you: 'It is in the sea!' then the fish will be there before you. But the kingdom is within you and it is outside of you!" 3 [3]. "When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will know that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you will be in a state of poverty, and it is you the poverty!" -
Even so, I believe no mystics is as enlightened as Buddha himself. This is what Thusness, a highly enlightened friend of mine, said in this forum previously:
....Right at this moment is the display of the three Dharma Seals: impermanence, non-self, and nirvana, the emptiness nature all existence.
This is the basis that every authentic teaching of buddhism must bear.
It is here that even the greatest mystic must take bow to Buddha. Such penetrating insight amid all kinds of lightning-fast changes to differentiate "I AM" from "Thusness"...
This is a verse from a very well known Hindu teacher, Ramana Maharshi.
God, Who is immanent, in His Grace takes pity on the loving devotee and manifests Himself according to the devoteeÂ’s development. The devotee thinks that he is a man and expects a relationship as between two physical bodies. But the Guru, who is God or the Self incarnate, works from within, helps the man to see his mistakes and guides him in the right path until he realizes the Self within.
Thusness, a friend of mine, was into plenty of religions after his first direct glimpse of the True Self. Among them christian mysticism, different cults, taoism, hinduism, and so on. He also liked Hinduism - you can say their teachings are similar to the other western contemplative traditions too. But because of the most profound teachings of Emptiness in Buddhism, he left his experienced Taoist master and converted to Buddhism 12 years ago. For more info on how Buddhism is different from Hinduism in terms of the level of enlightenment/realisation, pls refer to this very interesting conversation with one of the most advanced Christian Mystic that I have found, Bernedette Roberts: http://www.spiritualteachers.org/b_roberts_interview.htm. Read especially the second last reply from Bernedette Roberts starting from Bernadette: I think it may be too late for me to ever have a good understanding of how other religions make this passage
It is therefore that, there is nobody higher than Buddha, for he has attained the complete and perfect Enlightenment. I still maintain this view.
If you believe that God is Supreme Individual Being up there, then you are deluded by the Mahabrahma. I see most religions present God as a being with personality, and that cannot even exist in the 4 highest Formless Heavens (Heaven of Infinite Space, Infinite Consciousness, and so on). Even in the highest heaven, Heaven of Neither Perception nor Non-Perception, the lifespan there is 84000 Maha kappa. How long is that? Using a calculator, the answer is: 112896 billion years. But is that eternal? No. Because the lifespan of Brahmas is so long (Maha Brahma lives for billions of years in his Brahma plane), some of them are not aware that even their existence is not permanent.
If you want to 'reach God', most first step is take refuge [returning to the domain of] in Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. My dharma teacher said... actually, Buddha (Buddha Nature; God; Tao) has never left us. But it is because we are deluded, we have to practise, we have to "create the karmic condition" with the Three Treasures. It is only through many many lifetimes of practise that we can achieve Buddhahood. -
Yes, Buddhism also teach Other Power. But it does not teach a Supreme God. Amitabha is not a Supreme God that one must worship forever. Everyone can eventually become Amitabha, an equal of Amitabha, as long as he has the vows and achieve Buddhahood. Everyone can eventually realise the innate Amitabha Nature.Originally posted by sinweiy:In Shin Buddhism or Pureland Buddhism, Faith however can do make to it's fullest usage. it's the meaning of Jie1 ce2(empowerment) or Other power to support our Self Power. How it works is as below:
The Commentary on the Pure Land Treatise (‰��¶˜_’�) states:
Question: The Sutra on the Working of Karma states, "The working of karma is like a scale; the heavier side is drawn down first and foremost." The Sutra of Contemplation on the Buddha of Immeasurable Life speaks of a person who has committed the five grave offenses and the ten transgressions, and is possessed of all evils. He is to fall into the evil courses and undergo incalculable pain for many kalpas. At the point of death, he happens to be guided by a true teacher and comes to say Namu-muryoju-butsu (Namu-amida-butsu). When, in this way, he gives voice to it with a sincere mind without interruption, completing ten utterances, he attains birth in the Pure Land of happiness, immediately enters the truly settled of the Mahayana, and ultimately attains nonretrogression. He becomes free forever from all the pain of the three courses. How is this to be understood in terms of the principle of "the heavier side is drawn down first and foremost"?
Further, from distant kalpas in the past we have been committing all manner of acts. These acts, being defiled dharmas, are bound to the three realms. If, as you say, one immediately emerges from the three realms by merely thinking on Amida Buddha with ten utterances, how are we to understand the meaning of "binding karmic acts"?
Answer: If, giving weight to the five grave offenses, the ten transgressions, and other binding karmic acts, and considering the ten utterances of the person of the lowest grade of the lowest rank to be trivial, you say that drawn by karmic evil one should first and foremost fall into hell or be bound to the three realms, then we must consider lightness and heaviness here in terms of principles. This is a matter of mind, of active condition, and of settledness; it is not a matter of length of time or of quantity.
What is meant by "matter of mind"? The person who commits such karmic evil does so based on his own false and inverted views. The ten utterances, however, arise when a true teacher, consoling him by various means, makes him hear the dharma that is true reality. The latter is real, the former is unreal. How can there be any comparison?
Suppose there is a room that has been dark for a thousand years. If light reaches it, however briefly, the room immediately becomes bright. How can the darkness say that, having occupied the room for a thousand years, it refuses to leave? This is termed "matter of mind."
What is meant by "matter of active condition"? The person who commits such evil does so based on his own mind of falsity, depending on sentient beings who have come into existence from blind passions and falsity. The ten utterances arise based on supreme shinjin, depending on the Name embodying Amida Tathagata's immeasurable, true, real, and pure virtues, which is the adornment of compassionate means. Suppose there is a man who has been struck by a poison arrow. At the point of entry, the flesh is torn and the bone is broken. But if he hears a drum to which the dispelling elixir has been applied, the arrow will immediately be extracted and the poison expelled. It is like this [Note]. How can it be said that, because the arrow is deep and the poison virulent, even though the drumbeat is heard, it is impossible for the arrow to be withdrawn or the venom removed? This is termed "matter or active condition."
What is meant by "matter of settledness"? The person who commits such evil does so based on thoughts of something coming after and of other things interrupting. The ten utterances arise based on thoughts of nothing coming after and nothing interrupting. This is termed settledness.
When we consider these three matters, we see that the ten utterances carry weight. What is heavy draws down first and foremost and enables beings to depart from the three realms of existence. The two sutra passages have a single meaning.
Amituofo.
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actually, my Master Chin Kung when visit Christian in western countries, He don't mind saying Buddha is the manifestation of God, when He's talking with them, and when talking to fundamental Buddhist from the east, he would say God is manifestation of Kuan Shi Yin Bodhisattva...
the goal isn't to bring more separation into this world. all fingers lead to the palm. if we keep thinking we are independent from other religions then other religions will also do the same. there'll be no mutual agreement. eventually will also lead to dislike/dualism. sow seperation reap seperation. we want to patch up and have peace. they are just practicing Deva Vehicle. i know this is just a mutual discussion. i think we should also respect each others' view, and put up some common ground.
in non-dualism, no more disliking, all encompassing.
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You can say 'Buddha' is a manifest of 'God', because 'God' is just a word. But what exactly do you mean by that? If you mean that 'God' is just another Brahmic figure, seperated from Man depicted in many religions, then it will cause alot of discrimination. A lot of dualism. A lot of differentiations... and then a lot of wars. In reality there is only pure oneness.Originally posted by sinweiy:actually, my Master Chin Kung when visit Christian in western countries, He don't mind saying Buddha is the manifestation of God, when He's talking with them, and when talking to fundamental Buddhist from the east, he would say God is manifestation of Kuan Shi Yin Bodhisattva... because the goal isn't to bring more separation into this world. all fingers lead to the palm. if we keep thinking we are independent from other religions then other religions will also do the same. there'll be no mutual agreement. eventually will also lead to dislike/dualism. sow seperation reap seperation. we want to patch up and have peace. they are just practicing Deva Vehicle. i know this is just a mutual discussion. i think we should also respect each others' view, and put up some common ground.
in non-dualism, no more disliking, all encompassing.
/\
Think about it: why is it that Buddhism does not have wars, yet many other religions have war? Does the mystical/contemplative traditions like Islam Sufism participate in terrorist Jihad? BTW, Jihad in the higher sense in Islam is the war against the Self. In Buddhism, "Self is the greatest enemy". This is the true Jihad!
There was once Dalai Lama was asked.. if you were to meet God, what is the first thing you would ask? He answered something like... "I would ask, What is your True Nature?" -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
i mean if you are talking to a child and the child keep thinking that Santa Claus is real... and Santa Claus only give gift to those who is good boy or girl. then you let it be for the mind of a child is still not mature. at least the child still practice goodness. that's all that matter. when the time is right, they will kai1 qiao4.
You can say 'Buddha' is a manifest of 'God', because 'God' is just a word. But what exactly do you mean by that?
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
huh? i don't quite understand. i mean it's about target audience. when you talk to our fellow Buddhist, we tell them that God is the manifestation of Kuan Yin Bodhisattva as stated in Lotus Sutra. If that side like sweet, we give sweet, if our side like orange, we give orange. Both side are happy. how can war? unless you don't want to give them sweet and keep insisting they have orange. then they don't happy, then fight start to happen.
[b]
If you mean that 'God' is just another Brahmic figure, seperated from Man depicted in many religions, then it will cause alot of discrimination. A lot of dualism. A lot of differentiations... and then a lot of wars. In reality there is only pure oneness.Think about it: why is it that Buddhism does not have wars, yet many other religions have war? Does the mystical/contemplative traditions like Islam Sufism participate in terrorist Jihad? BTW, Jihad in the higher sense in Islam is the war against the Self. In Buddhism, "Self is the greatest enemy". This is the true Jihad!
good point. i heard from MCK, in the Quran, Jihad is supposed to be a defensing 'war'. Others came to attack, they have to defend, hence the war. not like they go attacking other countries, which the terrorists are doing. China also defend themselves from Japan.
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there's a case when Buddha went to a village which practice superstitious rituals and worship gods. But Buddha was very wise. He din't change their liking, what He did was change it from the inside, by giving the rituals and gods meaning and significants to the Dharma concepts. It's like a dirty cup cleanse with Dharma water and become a clean cup. The cup still retain it's cupness. Change from the inside than from the outside.
This is how similary Tibetan Buddhism come about. Tibetan Buddhism also have many rituals and many deities. but the significants are wholesome meaning.
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Yes, defensive is the 'smaller struggle'. Ultimately if you search the net, Jihad's higher meaning is the Struggle against self.
http://www.uga.edu/islam/sufismstruggle.html
In this regard, the struggle with one's own nafs has been called the greater struggle or greater "holy war" (al-jihad al-akbar) in contrast to the lesser struggle (al-jihad al-asghar), which is against injustice and oppressors in this world. The concept derives from the popular hadith of the Prophet, in which he said to Muslims returning from a battle, "You have returned from the lesser struggle to the greater struggle." And he was asked, "What is the greater struggle?" He answered, "The struggle against one's self (nafs), which is between the two sides of your body." Needless to say, in Sufism these two struggles are mutually reinforcing and occur simultaneously. In particular, the practice of "engaged surrender" in the "greater" struggle with one's own nafs diminishes certain obstacles in the consciousness of the Sufi, obstacles that--if not stuggled against--will hinder the Sufi's capacity to engage in the "lesser" struggle in their life in the world. -
huh? i don't quite understand. i mean it's about target audience. when you talk to our fellow Buddhist, we tell them that God is the manifestation of Kuan Yin Bodhisattva as stated in Lotus Sutra. If that side like sweet, we give sweet, if our side like orange, we give orange. Both side are happy. how can war? unless you don't want to give them sweet and keep insisting they have orange. then they don't happy, then fight start to happen.
My master said Jesus Christ is a manifest of the Mahasthamaprapta Bodhisattva. He explained quite in detail about that.
God (as in Father?), I haven't heard. That would be interesting. -
Im asking you in terms of power, who is higher? Bhudhha or the other gods?Originally posted by sinweiy:Buddha/Bodhisattva(s) can go to any of the planes (except formless realms) to do some teachings of Ultimate Truth.
can say yes can say no. how to definite 'higher'? Buddha also think lowly of Himself. He's very Humble also. His humbleness is higher.
another link on the planes:
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~alankhoo/DharmaRealm.htm
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I thought we were discussing about the exsistence of a supreme God? Why are you talking about the true nature of humans now? These are 2 different subject.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes, Buddhism also teach Other Power. But it does not teach a Supreme God. Amitabha is not a Supreme God that one must worship forever. Everyone can eventually become Amitabha, an equal of Amitabha, as long as he has the vows and achieve Buddhahood. Everyone can eventually realise the innate Amitabha Nature.
And one does not neccessary need to reach Nirvarna or attain bhuddhahood to merge with the supreme God. As long as one is free of karmic baggage he would most likely be able to merge with The Light. -
ok lah got time i go down there and open the gate permanently WANT?
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Originally posted by maggot:ok lah got time i go down there and open the gate permanently WANT?
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What exactly is free of karmic baggage? As long as one is living - he still has karma. It is not possible for a living person to be completely free from karma. For example, the Buddha after enlightenement no longer commits karma, but it does not mean his karma has ended. He still gets sick occasionally (but that is called Zhong Ye Qing Shou, meaning Heavy karma, Little effect), etc. The people a person meet is also by karma! So how can say that a person is free from karma?Originally posted by shade343:I thought we were discussing about the exsistence of a supreme God? Why are you talking about the true nature of humans now? These are 2 different subject.
And one does not neccessary need to reach Nirvarna or attain bhuddhahood to merge with the supreme God. As long as one is free of karmic baggage he would most likely be able to merge with The Light.
A person needs to realise the true nature (Clear light nature, Buddha Nature, etc). Because 'God' is True Nature. You can realise that Right now on Earth, no need after you pass away. God is not as many people think - an independant Mahabrahma. I will re-post another post which I explained why the idea of a Mahabrahma does not work. This Mahabrahma is being treated by all the devas as being the Creator, God. But still - Buddha rejected it; spoke to him. -
In Buddha's days there were many many different teachings, one popular one was Brahmanism. In fact the Brahma was still worshipped nowadays. Brahma was known to be "The Supreme One, the All-mighty, the All-seeing, the Ruler, the Lord of all, the Maker, the Creator, the Chief of All".
In Buddhism, the Mahabrahma resides in the 1st Jhana plane, the first plane among the 8 jhanic planes. There were higher realms above where he lives that he was unaware of, and above it all, beyond the 8 Jhanic planes and all Samsaric planes, is Nirvana. Nevertheless all the devas below the 1st Jhana planes considered him as the Creator God. Buddha did not suscribed to the belief of such a notion that the Universe and its Inhabitants were the Creation of the Mahabrahma. He met with the Brahma, asked him questions which he could not answer. Eventually he has took refuge in the Buddha, Dharma, Sangha.
The Buddha was also known to have said this,
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Why does he order such misfortune
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Why prevail deceit, lies and ignorance
And he such inequity and injustice create?
If the creator of the world entire
They call God, of every being be the Lord
Then an evil master is he, (O Aritta)
Knowing what's right did let wrong prevail!
When the previous universe was destroyed and this universe was formed, the Mahabrahma was first to be reborned. Other subsequent brahmas/devas were to be reborned.
'On this, brethren, the one who was first reborn thinks thus to himself: " I am Brahmà , the Great Brahmà , the Supreme One, the Mighty, the All-seeing, the Ruler, the Lord of all, the Maker, the Creator, the Chief of all, appointing to each his place, the Ancient of days the Father of all that are and are to be. 'These other beings are of my creation. And why is that so ? A while ago I thought, 'Would that they might come!' And on my mental aspiration, behold the beings came." DN 1 2:5
In reality, the universe works by the law of Karma and he has no control over the system of karma.
The Venerable Ledi Sayadaw, a highly renowned Myanmar scholar-monk of the first part of this century, gave a careful analysis of the powers of Maha Brahma in his Niyama Dipani (MB pp. 138-39). He states that although Maha Brahma can perform all sorts of transformations, he cannot actually create independent creatures, change the kammic law of cause and effect, or keep anyone from growing old or dying. Brahma can use his special powers to transport a man to the brahma plane for a short visit, but he cannot ensure that someone will be reborn there.
from http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol5no3f.htm:
When he came to know about Sakyamuni Buddha in the human world who speaks of the universal truth, he was curious and arrived at the human world with the intention to debate with the Buddha. The Buddha, with his ability to know another's mind, knew his intention and asked, "You claim to be the creator of the human race and all things in the universe, is this a fact?"
The king replied, "Yes, it is."
Buddha continued to question him, "Since you created life, why did you also create death? Is death created by you too?"
The king paused for while, and thinking that everyone loves life and nobody welcomes death, he replied, "I did not create death."
Buddha asked him again, "All human beings experience sickness, did you create sickness also?" The king knew that nobody likes to be ill, and he replied, "I did not create illness."
Buddha asked many questions in succession, but the king denied that he created them. Eventually, he admitted that he did not create the universe and all things in it, and certainly not the human race. The king of heavens was full of regrets and he felt ashamed. Finally, he accepted Buddha as his teacher and invited Him to spread the Dharma in the heavens.
-----------------------------
http://www.mahindarama.com/e-library/whybuddhism2.html
"To those who talked about the first cause of this world, the Buddha responded by saying that it is impossible to find a first cause since everything is changing, interdependent and conditioned by other things. Something that acts as the cause in the present may become the effect in the future. Later that same effect may again become the cause. Such phenomenon continues ad infinitum. It is called the universal law of Anicca or impermanency."
However, Buddhism is largely Agnostic rather than Atheist. We believe that it is not important to our spiritual practise, enlightenment, and liberation from samsara.
"Malunkhyaputta Sutta stresses that whether the universe was created or uncreated, finite or infinite, is irrelevant to our main spiritual concerns: the cause and cessation of suffering:
"Therefore Malunkhyaputta, bear the undeclared as undeclared. Malunkhyaputta, what are the not declared? The world is eternal, is not declared by me. The world is not eternal, is not declared by me. They are not essential for the principles of the holy life, they do not lead to turning away, to detachment, to cessation, to appeasement, to realisation, to enlightenment and to extinction. Malunkhyaputta, what are the declared by me? This, is unpleasant, is declared. This, is its arising, is delcared. This, is its cessation is declared. This is the path to its cessation, is declared. Malunkhyaputta, why are these declared by me? These are the essentials for the principles of the holy life, they lead to turning away, to detachment, to cessation, to appeasement, to realisation, to enlightenment and to extinction. Malunkhyaputta, I declare them." MN 64" -
Anyway, there is a very good website that I have forgotten to mentioned. Last time I always asked ppl to read this but then I have forgotten for some time.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/bps/wheels/wheel414.html
Contents
* I. Introduction
* II. The Buddha Teaches Deities
* III. Devas and Brahmas Honor the Buddha
* IV. The Role of Devas in the Buddha's Career
* V. Liberation for Humans, Devas, and Brahmas
* Notes
* Abbreviations
* Bibliography -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Free of Karmic baggage simply means a person who have paid of all his Karmic Debts and there no longer is a need for the soul to undergo rebirth. And its incorrect to think that a living person still has karma. It depends on the type of person. For example, celestials beings are free of Karma. But they still suffer when they reincarnate in a human form. But if you are talking of ordinary souls like you and me, then yes, we still have karmic debt that needs to be paid off.
What exactly is free of karmic baggage? As long as one is living - he still has karma. It is not possible for a living person to be completely free from karma. For example, the Buddha after enlightenement [b]no longer commits karma, but it does not mean his karma has ended. He still gets sick occasionally (but that is called Zhong Ye Qing Shou, meaning Heavy karma, Little effect), etc. The people a person meet is also by karma! So how can say that a person is free from karma?
A person needs to realise the true nature (Clear light nature, Buddha Nature, etc). Because 'God' is True Nature. You can realise that Right now on Earth, no need after you pass away. God is not as many people think - an independant Mahabrahma. I will re-post another post which I explained why the idea of a Mahabrahma does not work. This Mahabrahma is being treated by all the devas as being the Creator, God. But still - Buddha rejected it; spoke to him.[/b]
Normally when special souls(e.g bhuddha) fall sick, it is because they suffer in place for another person. They have the ability to suffer in place of other people's Karma.
Im not saying that there is an independent God. Why do you keep associating Independant God to that of a creator? Anyway if you ask me, there is no such thing as an independent god or a god who works independently.
What does the word Maha means? It means Big. What does the word Brahma means? It means Creator. -
I think your views on karma is not the same as Buddhism's.Originally posted by shade343:Free of Karmic baggage simply means a person who have paid of all his Karmic Debts and there no longer is a need for the soul to undergo rebirth. And its incorrect to think that a living person still has karma. It depends on the type of person. For example, celestials beings are free of Karma. But they still suffer when they reincarnate in a human form. But if you are talking of ordinary souls like you and me, then yes, we still have karmic debt that needs to be paid off.
Normally when special souls(e.g bhuddha) fall sick, it is because they suffer in place for another person. They have the ability to suffer in place of other people's Karma.
Im not saying that there is an independent God. Why do you keep associating Independant God to that of a creator? Anyway if you ask me, there is no such thing as an independent god or a god who works independently.
What does the word Maha means? It means Big. What does the word Brahma means? It means Creator.
Let me present the Buddhist view on Karma.
Everything we experience is by karma. Wholesome karma leads to higher realms (realm of heaven, human, asura). Unwholesome karma leads to lower realms (animals, spirits, hell). Everyone is reborned according to karma. It is only by the practise of Purification can we have pure karma. Yes, when you enter Nirvana, you will already have pure karma. But while Buddha is alive - he is still subjected to karma. Because as long as there is any form of experiences, it is still because of karma. Celestial beings have good karma, that is why they experience joy/enjoy all the good things in their lives. But Buddha's mind remain pure and unaffected by anything he experiences. Neither does he create any new karma that will lead to rebirth, everything he does, his karma is pure.
And the website I just gave you is a really good read. It is all from scriptural accounts.
I agree partially on what you say 'suffer in place of others'. For example. My master used to heal 4 cancer patients at once by blessing them. They got healed, but he fell sick and ill for several days. But this is already Zhong Bao Qing Shou, heavy karma, little effect. My dharma teacher also blessed her own mother's long time term illness and she got healed in no time. But she became very sick instead. Her sisters say 'Hey your blessing is so effective, why don't you bless the other people.' But out of advise of my master, and her own wisdom, she rather not practise public blessing. Part of the reason she say is "because as a woman I have stronger karmic hindrances". My Taiwanese teacher still does public blessings.
Our forum moderator, Namelessness, also blessed her own mother's cancer. She got healed also, but he became sick also. He says in a private message to me:
Sickness would be tranfered to whom is able to heal it. But it wouldn't be as intense. My mother's liver cancer was healed and I got sick too, but it's just minor illness comparing to cancer. I don't do public blessing too, bcos I don't yet have the capacity as my master.
and..
Thanks. But curing diseases is not the purpose. I havenÂ’t use it to cure anyone except my family. ItÂ’s intended for purifying the mind though.
But this is very limited. Usually if a master want to bless a person, it may be because the master wishes to bring him into Buddhism (they dont do this to everyone), and this person really is repentant for his wrongdoings and wishes to change. Everyone will eventually die, no point blessing every single person. It is only delaying death, no more. Fixed karma still cannot be 'blessed away'. Does not mean everything can be changed. Even Mahakashyapa, the disciple of Buddha foremost of Supernatural Powers, cannot prevent a fixed karma from happening to the sakya clan. Not because his powers not enough - but because Supernatural Powers cannot overcome (fixed) Karmic Powers. There is an interesting story about this.
What I mean by an independant god, means a Personal god. The supreme God you are talking about is a Personal God. Meaning he exists as a Person. Because as long as you think of Him as a person, there will be dualism, discrimination, seperation of 'I' and 'Him'. That itself is a delusion. God, which I am speaking, is not a person. He is the true nature, true essence of all.
God is infinite in his simplicity and simple in his infinity. Therefore he is everywhere and is everywhere complete. He is everywhere on account of his infinity, and is everywhere complete on account of his simplicity. Only God flows into all things, their very essences. Nothing else flows into something else. God is in the innermost part of each and every thing, only in its innermost part. [Sermon LW XXIX]
Let me quote from my friend Thusness who posted this in Longchen's forum many months ago.
From the tick of a clock to the tick of our thought,
God has not moved even a moment step away for us.
In the emptiness space of the consciousness to the content in the consciousness,
There is no Presence without God.
When things emerge from nothingness,
the mind 'sees' the 'somethingness' but misses the 'nothingness'.
Heard the sound but not the slience.
The ever grasping mind knows only the known and is unable to rest in the unknown.
Knows life but not death.
Sees God in light but not in darkness.
To such a mind, there are gaps and division and thus distancing itself from itself.
Let's not create unnessary conceptual thoughts, the mind is not lack of known concepts and facts.
Let the mind rest and experience not knowing, non seeking and move not a step.
It is a lost art; it is also the great art of liberation. -
Anybody who is reborn in this world will have to undergo suffering. In the case of bhuddha, he did experience suffering and was also subjected to Karma. But that is because he isnt a god. Comapre this to the case of Jesus Christ. Why do christians say that Jesus paid for our sins? Because he suffered in place of us. He originally did not have any karmic debts. Instead , he took over some of our debts and help us pay some of it.
I did not mention that this supreme god exist in person. Which part of my post did I say it?
I merely mention he was the creator. He who is above all.