anyone know of these 2 dieties
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black white something.. suppose to catch ghost wan
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Hmm... not sure leh. Are you sure it's Buddhist (and not Taoist) gods?
Maybe someone can enlighten me on this too.
BTW where do you see or heard it from? -
i think it's taoist leh.
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taoist.
they wear tall hats, and with long tongues.
i saw it on an amulet in a taxi. not much is written about them eh? -
Hmm... Buddhist don't pray to Taoist deities leh. In fact we do not worship any gods and deities. Not even Buddha and bodhisattvas. Prostrations to Buddha is only a form of respect and reverence, not worship. Buddhism is not same as Taoism.
Anyway, if you are not aware, there is a Taoist forum on sgforums... long time nobody post there... maybe you can try your luck: http://taoism.sgforums.com/ -
the black white dieties are called 'hei bai wu chang' ...or you can also call them 'niu tou ma mian' (cow head horse face)...
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they are different la... lol... anyhow whack onlyOriginally posted by winbob:the black white dieties are called 'hei bai wu chang' ...or you can also call them 'niu tou ma mian' (cow head horse face)... -
Why nobody said Chinese folklore?
The faith held mainly by Chinese are mainly of tripartite form - Taoism, Buddhism and folklore. But these are so mix mashed along China's 3000 years history that people forget that Chinese New Year has its origin in folklore, and that Buddhism practised by Chinese are what we called 'Sinicised Buddhism'. And along the line, people forget that Taoism has its foundations in philosophy and understanding of the universe, not just worshipping of deities.
Sheesh, sorry, but just to air my grievances.....kekeke
Yes, dumbdumb is right, hei bai wu chang is diff from niu tou ma mian. -
One of them has the words "yi2 jian4 fa1 cai2" written on his hat. What about the other?
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Actually in the beginning Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu period, the teachings of Tao is a philosophy, Taoists then do not worship deities and stuff. Lao Tzu is praised by many Buddhist masters, including my own Master, and Master Han Shan. Lao Tzu is being seen as an example of a Pratyekabuddha. Tao Te Ching is a work of 'Qing1 Jing4 Wu2 Wei2'.Originally posted by laurence82:Why nobody said Chinese folklore?
The faith held mainly by Chinese are mainly of tripartite form - Taoism, Buddhism and folklore. But these are so mix mashed along China's 3000 years history that people forget that Chinese New Year has its origin in folklore, and that Buddhism practised by Chinese are what we called 'Sinicised Buddhism'. And along the line, people forget that Taoism has its foundations in philosophy and understanding of the universe, not just worshipping of deities.
Sheesh, sorry, but just to air my grievances.....kekeke
Yes, dumbdumb is right, hei bai wu chang is diff from niu tou ma mian.
But then, after Zhang Tian Shi/Zhang Daoling came to reform Taoism, he brought along many other indigenous practices and deities, and since then Taoism became the indigenous religion of China. Taoism in Singapore IMHO is mostly into mediumship.
Nevertheless there are still some highly realised Taoists masters now, according to my friend Thusness, who used to learn under one such Taoist master more than a decade ago.
But anyway, just because Chinese folks practitioners worship Guan Yin or Buddha along with other deities, that does not make it any form of Buddhism. I think even if those Chinese folks practitioners worship Jesus or Mother Mary, we also do not recognise them as 'Sinicized Christianity' or 'Sinicized Catholicism' -
Originally posted by winbob:the black white dieties are called 'hei bai wu chang' ...or you can also call them 'niu tou ma mian' (cow head horse face)...
First of all, I would like to apologise for giving wrong info. Yes, in fact they are different. This is my mistake. But any way, to 'dumbdumb'. Be careful with your words. A mistake wrongly spoken is different from anyhow whack.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:they are different la... lol... anyhow whack only
Please allow me to get things right to compensate for my mistake.
These two are dieties working downstairs mainly. But they will also help people with some troubles. E.g people who met with lawsuits troubles. Many pray for good fortune. Normally people will approach them thru a 'medium' (tiao dang) to tell them their problems or ask for fortune.
The white colour clothes is 'lao da' (elder brother) wheras the black colour clothes is 'lao er'(second brother). The 'niu tou ma mian' are their subodinates.
Normally if you go to the temple (e.g Loyang tua peh gong), you will notice that they will not only pray to white & black colour dieites only. They will be also 'bao2 bei4 ya2' & 'di4 zhang4 wang2' & many others (all their 'colleages')next to them.
White & black dieties like to eat 'tou4 sha1 bing3' & like to smoke Camel (without filter), and like to drink Guiness stout / ABS stout. And of coz roast pork (one whole little piggie). People who strike 4D or solved their lawsuits will keep their promise, normally will buy one whole pigglets for them as a form of thank you. Some will bring to the 'tiao dang' & let him eat.
Lunar seventh month is a big event for them as we all know. Some temples will hire some 'chang4 da4 xi4' for them to watch. -
Originally posted by winbob:
Oh I see... thanks for providing us with the info. You seem expert in Taoism gods
First of all, I would like to apologise for giving wrong info. Yes, in fact they are [b]different. This is my mistake. But any way, to 'dumbdumb'. Be careful with your words. A mistake wrongly spoken is different from anyhow whack.
Please allow me to get things right to compensate for my mistake.
These two are dieties working downstairs mainly. But they will also help people with some troubles. E.g people who met with lawsuits troubles. Many pray for good fortune. Normally people will approach them thru a 'medium' (tiao dang) to tell them their problems or ask for fortune.
The white colour clothes is 'lao da' (elder brother) wheras the black colour clothes is 'lao er'(second brother). The 'niu tou ma mian' are their subodinates.
Normally if you go to the temple (e.g Loyang tua peh gong), you will notice that they will not only pray to white & black colour dieites only. They will be also 'bao2 bei4 ya2' & 'di4 zhang4 wang2' & many others (all their 'colleages')next to them.
White & black dieties like to eat 'tou4 sha1 bing3' & like to smoke Camel (without filter), and like to drink Guiness stout / ABS stout. And of coz roast pork (one whole little piggie). People who strike 4D or solved their lawsuits will keep their promise, normally will buy one whole pigglets for them as a form of thank you. Some will bring to the 'tiao dang' & let him eat.
Lunar seventh month is a big event for them as we all know. Some temples will hire some 'chang4 da4 xi4' for them to watch.
[/b]
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"yi jian fa cai"
"er jian po cai"
"san jian guan cai"
So do take note of how many times you see them
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HiOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:Oh I see... thanks for providing us with the info. You seem expert in Taoism gods
Coz my in laws worshipped them to quite an extend....
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Acherlie... as a Buddhist we are advised not to worship or deal with these deities. Because we believe they are spiritual deities.. meaning belong to spirit realm. Some of them have their demands and when they are not met they can get quite angry.Originally posted by maggot:"yi jian fa cai"
"er jian po cai"
"san jian guan cai"
So do take note of how many times you see them
Hope I don't offend anyone by this, but this is my honest view and the view of Buddhists in general. -
Oh I see.. how about you then?Originally posted by winbob:Hi
Coz my in laws worshipped them to quite an extend.... -
Me? I am a free thinker. They had tried to force me to believe too but i was just too lazy for that. Another reason is, you can never force me to do any thing just because you are my in-laws.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Oh I see.. how about you then? -
Oh I see...Originally posted by winbob:Me? I am a free thinker. They had tried to force me to believe too but i was just too lazy for that. Another reason is, you can never force me to do any thing just because you are my in-laws. -
i'm a christian, haha but just curious.
i read in a book, the words written actually says
black: zhen4 zai4 zao2 ni3 (justice is looking for you)
white: ni2 ye3 lai2 le3 (you come along as well) -
laurence82 , ur source based on a western authorOriginally posted by laurence82:Why nobody said Chinese folklore?
The faith held mainly by Chinese are mainly of tripartite form - Taoism, Buddhism and folklore. But these are so mix mashed along China's 3000 years history that people forget that Chinese New Year has its origin in folklore, and that Buddhism practised by Chinese are what we called 'Sinicised Buddhism'. And along the line, people forget that Taoism has its foundations in philosophy and understanding of the universe, not just worshipping of deities.
Sheesh, sorry, but just to air my grievances.....kekeke
Yes, dumbdumb is right, hei bai wu chang is diff from niu tou ma mian.
as china in the dynastic period is a agricultural society , so there wasnt a clear distinction between the 3 faith , and sinicised isnt true
As Buddhism comes from Indian , much of the Indian cultural and language was assimilated into the chinese culture and found its way into the Chinese society
yet words like Prajna , and Bhikkhu remains ,and so on -
Originally posted by winbob:
ya u are right
First of all, I would like to apologise for giving wrong info. Yes, in fact they are [b]different. This is my mistake. But any way, to 'dumbdumb'. Be careful with your words. A mistake wrongly spoken is different from anyhow whack.
Please allow me to get things right to compensate for my mistake.
These two are dieties working downstairs mainly. But they will also help people with some troubles. E.g people who met with lawsuits troubles. Many pray for good fortune. Normally people will approach them thru a 'medium' (tiao dang) to tell them their problems or ask for fortune.
The white colour clothes is 'lao da' (elder brother) wheras the black colour clothes is 'lao er'(second brother). The 'niu tou ma mian' are their subodinates.
Normally if you go to the temple (e.g Loyang tua peh gong), you will notice that they will not only pray to white & black colour dieites only. They will be also 'bao2 bei4 ya2' & 'di4 zhang4 wang2' & many others (all their 'colleages')next to them.
White & black dieties like to eat 'tou4 sha1 bing3' & like to smoke Camel (without filter), and like to drink Guiness stout / ABS stout. And of coz roast pork (one whole little piggie). People who strike 4D or solved their lawsuits will keep their promise, normally will buy one whole pigglets for them as a form of thank you. Some will bring to the 'tiao dang' & let him eat.
Lunar seventh month is a big event for them as we all know. Some temples will hire some 'chang4 da4 xi4' for them to watch.
[/b]
i saw them also in cheng huang temple beside shuang ling shi in toa payoh
kinda of scary when my mother bring me there when i was 8yrs old
u strike my youth memories !!!
perhaps thats was why i was interested and go into Buddhism
and i Found Sakyamuni Buddha
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Originally posted by bohiruci:ya u are right
i saw them also in cheng huang temple beside shuang ling shi in toa payoh
kinda of scary when my mother bring me there when i was 8yrs old
u strike my youth memories !!!
perhaps thats was why i was interested and go into Buddhism
and i Found Sakyamuni Buddha -
there isnt a clear distinction, who says there is?Originally posted by bohiruci:laurence82 , ur source based on a western author
as china in the dynastic period is a agricultural society , so there wasnt a clear distinction between the 3 faith , and sinicised isnt true
As Buddhism comes from Indian , much of the Indian cultural and language was assimilated into the chinese culture and found its way into the Chinese society
yet words like Prajna , and Bhikkhu remains ,and so on
True that Buddhism, where the source is India, bring along Indian culture and language, therefore, its right to say whatever the Chinese or for that matter, Japanese, did to Buddhism, for example, in erecting temples, add in joss sticks, creating sects like Shaolin has add in the Chinese bit to the faith... -
wey wey, isnt dieties actualy spelt deities?
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please go and search on the history of BuddhismOriginally posted by laurence82:there isnt a clear distinction, who says there is?
True that Buddhism, where the source is India, bring along Indian culture and language, therefore, its right to say whatever the Chinese or for that matter, Japanese, did to Buddhism, for example, in erecting temples, add in joss sticks, creating sects like Shaolin has add in the Chinese bit to the faith...
u can find on the internet
i attended dharma lesson ,so i know the differences
and did u know the history of japanese Buddhism and Chinese Buddhism
fyi Shaolin is not created as a sect
shaolin is from the chan buddhism school
where got sect ?
martial arts wise ,yes ,it is a school transformed the indian rod fighting
and unarmed combat into the chinese way of fighting fit
korean transformed it into taekwondo ,akido
japan transformed it into ju jitsu ,judo ,karate