What is the 'I'?
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Everyday we would use the word 'I', think in terms of an 'I' and 'me', experience from a perspective of a 'self', what exactly do you think it is?
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I is the composite or collection of our sense organs and parts of body that formed "I"
"I" does not exist , if there is a real "I"
why cant we recognise that the "I" at age 3 is the same as "I" at age 16?
why does the "I" able to remember things ?
it is the consciousness that is the propelling our sense organ
that formed the "I"
convenient sake ,we used the "I" for many times
Matter is form ,form is matter
emptiness is form , form is emptiness
no matter , no feeling , no thinking ,no action , no thoughts
no eyes , no ears , no nose, no tongue ,no body
without fear ,away from the inverted nature of minds ....
at the higher level it is the 8th consciousness that propelled us to rebirth and rebirth and assuming different "I"
the seeds of all good and bad actions
so an eternal now , i have given u the initial glimpse at the weishi teaching ,
care to know more
dun worry i will post more
the treasure of the wutai mt and deep mountains of tibet have been revealed -
Good explaination.
"I" exist because of attachment. We are attached to things & concousious thinking that they belongs to us.
For example, if a police stop you and asked who are you, you would probably show them your identity card and tell them that this is who you are. So you are attached to the Identity card to identify you.
Take an example. You buy yourself a new car. you would identify that this is a car. If someone will to remove your car steering wheel and asked you. Is this a car? You would not identify them as car. Someone took off the wheel and asked if this is a car. You would tell them that this is a wheel. If you will to dismantle the car into pieces and ask. Is this is a car? You would not identify that this is a car. The car only exist when all the parts are put together. Similarly "I" exist only when all the body part are put together and all the taughts, emotions and consciousiness are put together.
While reading is, someone will to tell you that your new car had been damaged by a lorry in the carpark. You would probably jump up and raced into the carpark to access your car damage. You would curse yourself for choosing this spot to park your car or you would stare and cry at your damage car.
I may feel sorry for your damage car but would have forgotten about it but you would still remember it after 3 months. Why?
Because that is not my car and I am not attached to it. You would still remember and feel for it because the car belongs to you and are attached to it.
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From experience, the disappearing 'I' is experienced in Oneness. What is experienced is a unified whole... where the perception of a perciever (me) and the being percieved (environment) is being replaced by just experiencing.
All along, the me and others is a 'perceptual trick'... both the me and the other IS IN THE MOVIE.
However, to maintain normalcy in society... i think it is better to play along with the game of life as an individual while still in physical incarnation. -
Thank you all for your valuable input. Here is my understanding. I think first off we could do an analysis into what this 'I' is. If we think that 'I' is our body, then if your hand and legs are amputated, your 'I' would have disappeared, or amputated along with it
. But it is not. If you say, 'I can see', then what exactly is this 'I' you are refering to? If the 'eye' is part of 'you', if you are blinded, then does the 'I' disappears as well?
LinYu also made a good point that 'I' exists in attachment. In reality, 'I' does not exist, naturally car does not belong to 'I', then there is no attachment, only Mindfulness. From this we can see 'I' is the root of all perceptions, all craving, etc.
So eventually we conclude that 'I' is a form of mind consciousness, or egoic/self consciousness, is known as the 7th Consciousness [terms based on the Yogacara/Consciousness-Only school]... based on the illusion of a self of which does not exist. The 7th and 8th Consciousness is not found in the Theravada school, although 7th and 8th consciousness is the extension of the Mental Consciousness mentioned in Theravada. This 'self illusion' is the root of ignorance. it is also the root of countless discrimination, dualism, of 'I' and 'other'. Because this 7th consciousness is not our body, and is linked with our 8th consciousness [alaya storehouse consciousness] which Bodhiruci has pointed out, when we die our 7th consciousness, conviniently called the 'soul', carries along the karmic seeds of the 8th consciousness into rebirth. Whenever we do something with self-attachment [7th consciousness], we will plant a karmic imprint into the 8th consciousness, which is similar to a ever-recording tape recorder. To cease the cycle of rebirth is to cut off the root of ignorance, where the self illusion [7th consciousness] is dissolved. Bodhiruci states that only the 8th consciousness gets reincarnated. It is true, however the 8th consciousness gets reincarnated because of the 7th consciousness, of an egoic self. In Mahayana and Vajrayana, we know that there is an intermediate stage between death and rebirth, called the Zhong Ying Sheng, or antarabhava, bardo [zhong you]. When we die, our 6 sense organs and therefore 6 sense consciousness cease to exist, our 7th consciousness leaves our body in the form of Zhong Ying Sheng in search for the right conditions to be reborn. If we are liberated from that 7th consciousness, we will be part of Dharmakaya. In Tibetan terms, it is called the Clear Light. In Pure Land terms, it is called 'Ji Guang Jing Tu'. It is also commonly known as Nirvana. That is also your True Nature; Buddha Nature; True Self.
In Chinese we often hear of 'Da4 Chan2 Qi1' literally translated as Hit Chan Seven. It means hitting the 7th consciousness, making it cease its function. -
Do u know why hit seven and not eight ?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Thank you all for your valuable input. Here is my understanding. I think first off we could do an analysis into what this 'I' is. If we think that 'I' is our body, then if your hand and legs are amputated, your 'I' would have disappeared, or amputated along with it. But it is not. If you say, 'I can see', then what exactly is this 'I' you are refering to? If the 'eye' is part of 'you', if you are blinded, then does the 'I' disappears as well?
LinYu also made a good point that 'I' exists in attachment. In reality, 'I' does not exist, naturally car does not belong to 'I', then there is no attachment, only Mindfulness. From this we can see 'I' is the root of all perceptions, all craving, etc.
So eventually we conclude that 'I' is a form of mind consciousness, or egoic/self consciousness, is known as the 7th Consciousness [terms based on the Yogacara/Consciousness-Only school]... based on the illusion of a self of which does not exist. The 7th and 8th Consciousness is not found in the Theravada school, although 7th and 8th consciousness is the extension of the Mental Consciousness mentioned in Theravada. This 'self illusion' is the root of ignorance. it is also the root of countless discrimination, dualism, of 'I' and 'other'. Because this 7th consciousness is not our body, and is linked with our 8th consciousness [alaya storehouse consciousness] which Bodhiruci has pointed out, when we die our 7th consciousness, conviniently called the 'soul', carries along the karmic seeds of the 8th consciousness into rebirth. Whenever we do something with self-attachment [7th consciousness], we will plant a karmic imprint into the 8th consciousness, which is similar to a ever-recording tape recorder. To cease the cycle of rebirth is to cut off the root of ignorance, where the self illusion [7th consciousness] is dissolved. Bodhiruci states that only the 8th consciousness gets reincarnated. It is true, however the 8th consciousness gets reincarnated because of the 7th consciousness, of an egoic self. In Mahayana and Vajrayana, we know that there is an intermediate stage between death and rebirth, called the Zhong Ying Sheng, or antarabhava, bardo [zhong you]. When we die, our 6 sense organs and therefore 6 sense consciousness cease to exist, our 7th consciousness leaves our body in the form of Zhong Ying Sheng in search for the right conditions to be reborn. If we are liberated from that 7th consciousness, we will be part of Dharmakaya. In Tibetan terms, it is called the Clear Light. In Pure Land terms, it is called 'Ji Guang Jing Tu'. It is also commonly known as Nirvana. That is also your True Nature; Buddha Nature; True Self.
In Chinese we often hear of 'Da4 Chan2 Qi1' literally translated as Hit Chan Seven. It means hitting the 7th consciousness, making it cease its function.
it is becos our 7th consciousness is the deeds (alaya)field which ripen all the 8th consciousness
let me explain abit more
not in pureland u just find this word "the clear light pureland
it is from the systematic teaching by tientai
all Buddhist terminology is based on tientai sectarian
the first land that we live is the ordinary and sage communion land
fan sheng tong ju tu
the second land which upon reaching arhatship will
go to is residual pureland
you yu jing tu
the third land is the solid rewards and splendour land
shi bao zhuan yan tu
which a 1st stage to10 stage bodhisattva will aspire
the last land which in the heart of Buddha is the clear light
or known as the chang ji guang tu
the permanent clear light land
Buddhaland is actually devoid of all this , just that Buddha knows we all are sentient beings will feel tired seeing a barren sparkling land
so He created the birds ,lotus and all to let the sentient beings in His land
feel not despair
true nature is ur original self
before u are born ,who are u ?
before i was born , who i am ?
this is the glimpse of tientai and weishi teaching , like i said
if to tell more abt the mind training
it could takes month -
applause to an eternal nowOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:Thank you all for your valuable input. Here is my understanding. I think first off we could do an analysis into what this 'I' is. If we think that 'I' is our body, then if your hand and legs are amputated, your 'I' would have disappeared, or amputated along with it. But it is not. If you say, 'I can see', then what exactly is this 'I' you are refering to? If the 'eye' is part of 'you', if you are blinded, then does the 'I' disappears as well?
LinYu also made a good point that 'I' exists in attachment. In reality, 'I' does not exist, naturally car does not belong to 'I', then there is no attachment, only Mindfulness. From this we can see 'I' is the root of all perceptions, all craving, etc.
So eventually we conclude that 'I' is a form of mind consciousness, or egoic/self consciousness, is known as the 7th Consciousness [terms based on the Yogacara/Consciousness-Only school]... based on the illusion of a self of which does not exist. The 7th and 8th Consciousness is not found in the Theravada school, although 7th and 8th consciousness is the extension of the Mental Consciousness mentioned in Theravada. This 'self illusion' is the root of ignorance. it is also the root of countless discrimination, dualism, of 'I' and 'other'. Because this 7th consciousness is not our body, and is linked with our 8th consciousness [alaya storehouse consciousness] which Bodhiruci has pointed out, when we die our 7th consciousness, conviniently called the 'soul', carries along the karmic seeds of the 8th consciousness into rebirth. Whenever we do something with self-attachment [7th consciousness], we will plant a karmic imprint into the 8th consciousness, which is similar to a ever-recording tape recorder. To cease the cycle of rebirth is to cut off the root of ignorance, where the self illusion [7th consciousness] is dissolved. Bodhiruci states that only the 8th consciousness gets reincarnated. It is true, however the 8th consciousness gets reincarnated because of the 7th consciousness, of an egoic self. In Mahayana and Vajrayana, we know that there is an intermediate stage between death and rebirth, called the Zhong Ying Sheng, or antarabhava, bardo [zhong you]. When we die, our 6 sense organs and therefore 6 sense consciousness cease to exist, our 7th consciousness leaves our body in the form of Zhong Ying Sheng in search for the right conditions to be reborn. If we are liberated from that 7th consciousness, we will be part of Dharmakaya. In Tibetan terms, it is called the Clear Light. In Pure Land terms, it is called 'Ji Guang Jing Tu'. It is also commonly known as Nirvana. That is also your True Nature; Buddha Nature; True Self.
In Chinese we often hear of 'Da4 Chan2 Qi1' literally translated as Hit Chan Seven. It means hitting the 7th consciousness, making it cease its function.
first insight is on the way liao
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[quote]Originally posted by LinYu:
Good explaination.
"I" exist because of attachment. We are attached to things & concousious thinking that they belongs to us.
For example, if a police stop you and asked who are you, you would probably show them your identity card and tell them that this is who you are. So you are attached to the Identity card to identify you.
Take an example. You buy yourself a new car. you would identify that this is a car. If someone will to remove your car steering wheel and asked you. Is this a car? You would not identify them as car. Someone took off the wheel and asked if this is a car. You would tell them that this is a wheel. If you will to dismantle the car into pieces and ask. Is this is a car? You would not identify that this is a car. The car only exist when all the parts are put together. Similarly "I" exist only when all the body part are put together and all the taughts, emotions and consciousiness are put together.
While reading is, someone will to tell you that your new car had been damaged by a lorry in the carpark. You would probably jump up and raced into the carpark to access your car damage. You would curse yourself for choosing this spot to park your car or you would stare and cry at your damage car.
I may feel sorry for your damage car but would have forgotten about it but you would still remember it after 3 months. Why?
Because that is not my car and I am not attached to it. You would still remember and feel for it because the car belongs to you and are attached to it. [/quote
yep lin yu
great effort shown
F = work done x distance moved
sometimes as elder must encourage junior on
that will be a graceful sharing session -
found a resource on the 8th consciousness and simple intro to yogacara school
yogacara (means mind -only)
wei shi zong
http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/Yogacara/basicideas.htm
enjoy reading -
Yup, I have read about these pure lands before, but thanks for sharing!Originally posted by bohiruci:Do u know why hit seven and not eight ?
it is becos our 7th consciousness is the deeds (alaya)field which ripen all the 8th consciousness
let me explain abit more
not in pureland u just find this word "the clear light pureland
it is from the systematic teaching by tientai
all Buddhist terminology is based on tientai sectarian
the first land that we live is the ordinary and sage communion land
fan sheng tong ju tu
the second land which upon reaching arhatship will
go to is residual pureland
you yu jing tu
the third land is the solid rewards and splendour land
shi bao zhuan yan tu
which a 1st stage to10 stage bodhisattva will aspire
the last land which in the heart of Buddha is the clear light
or known as the chang ji guang tu
the permanent clear light land
Buddhaland is actually devoid of all this , just that Buddha knows we all are sentient beings will feel tired seeing a barren sparkling land
so He created the birds ,lotus and all to let the sentient beings in His land
feel not despair
true nature is ur original self
before u are born ,who are u ?
before i was born , who i am ?
this is the glimpse of tientai and weishi teaching , like i said
if to tell more abt the mind training
it could takes month Also an interesting note, while some lands are specifically for arhants/pratyekabuddhas, Amitabha Pure Land is a place where both ordinary beings, arhants, pratyekabuddhas, bodhisattvas can go.
I also agree with you that Buddha Land is formless. My dharma teacher used to have such visions of an empty Buddha Land - yet she was 100% certain it was Buddha Land! That was before meeting my master, and after meeting my master, my master told her she had practised in past life to enter such buddha land before... and somehow an impression has been planted into her 8th consciousness. Buddha land essentially is formless.
But then to ordinary beings, they will manifest in all the details as mentioned in Amitabha Sutra. -
thanks for the urlOriginally posted by bohiruci:found a resource on the 8th consciousness and simple intro to yogacara school
yogacara (means mind -only)
wei shi zong
http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/Yogacara/basicideas.htm
enjoy reading -
Just like to add on to this.
Since there is no 'I', then what makes 'us'?
Conditioned arisings, interdependant origination [i.e we are made up of the 5 Skhandas]. Meaning all things are merely relativity to each other, therefore they are one - not two, not three, not existing independantly by itself. Thus there is no 'I' in the 5 skhandas. All things are conditioned arisings, and therefore have no inherent existences. Not only that, they are ever-changing, no two moments are the same. Out of ignorance based on the 7th and 8th consciousness, we always think that there is an 'I' which exists in continuation. Yet every moment is distinct and new.
Life (Self) is nothing other than the continuous flow of the Now Moment.
The Now Moment ceases as it arises. This moment must completely ceased
and serves as the CAUSE for the next moment to arise.
Therefore Self is a process of series Self1, Self2, Self3, Self4, Self5, Self6...etc
A fixed entity 'Self' does not exist, what really exists is a momentary Self.
Under deep meditation, one is able to observe and sense the karmic and mental factors from moment to moment,
it is these factors that are succeeded from moment to moment and life and life but not a fixed entity.
When the karmic and mental factors subsides, it is known as "The True and Only (and Inherently egoless) Conscious Light (Itself)".
- Thusness -
So with "I" comes "mine".
And with "mine" comes "attachment".
With "attachment" comes "suffering".
Therefore with the cessation of "I" comes the cessation of "suffering"
How?
When there is "I", everything I own becomes "mine". such as
My father, my mother, my brother, my sister, my house, my car, my exams results, my anger, my happiness, etc....
Then "I" becomes attached to what that belongs to me. If my house caught fire, I will feel sad, anguish and dismay. If my relative pass away, I will feel sad, angry. If I fail my exams. I will feel disappointed, sad etc becoz I associated with the external to be me.
Only when "I" realised that all these external factor are not "me and mine" can one breaks free and free oneself from suffering. This is the Buddha teaching of the 4 noble Truth. -
Yup!Originally posted by LinYu:So with "I" comes "mine".
And with "mine" comes "attachment".
With "attachment" comes "suffering".
Therefore with the cessation of "I" comes the cessation of "suffering"
How?
When there is "I", everything I own becomes "mine". such as
My father, my mother, my brother, my sister, my house, my car, my exams results, my anger, my happiness, etc....
Then "I" becomes attached to what that belongs to me. If my house caught fire, I will feel sad, anguish and dismay. If my relative pass away, I will feel sad, angry. If I fail my exams. I will feel disappointed, sad etc becoz I associated with the external to be me.
Only when "I" realised that all these external factor are not "me and mine" can one breaks free and free oneself from suffering. This is the Buddha teaching of the 4 noble Truth.
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When I read the above statement, I understands what it is saying about annica and annata. But the moment I say i understood what it is saying, I no longer understand what it meant anymore.Originally posted by LinYu:So with "I" comes "mine".
And with "mine" comes "attachment".
With "attachment" comes "suffering".
Therefore with the cessation of "I" comes the cessation of "suffering"
How?
When there is "I", everything I own becomes "mine". such as
My father, my mother, my brother, my sister, my house, my car, my exams results, my anger, my happiness, etc....
Then "I" becomes attached to what that belongs to me. If my house caught fire, I will feel sad, anguish and dismay. If my relative pass away, I will feel sad, angry. If I fail my exams. I will feel disappointed, sad etc becoz I associated with the external to be me.
Only when "I" realised that all these external factor are not "me and mine" can one breaks free and free oneself from suffering. This is the Buddha teaching of the 4 noble Truth.
Maybe I am attached to the "understanding" that I no longer understood.
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How can I possibly understand no self?Originally posted by LinYu:When I read the above statement, I understands what it is saying about annica and annata. But the moment I say i understood what it is saying, I no longer understand what it meant anymore.
Maybe I am attached to the "understanding" that I no longer understood.
Simply let go of your attachments - this is not I, this is not Mine, understandings or not understanding are not mine, so let them go.