Cease your False Self and your True Self lives!
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Imagine this...
All that is (omnipresent Oneness) as a vast interconnected machinery. All That Is is perfect... because it is complete/whole. Emptiness is not empty but full.....but our individual minds cannot conceive the fullness.
The individual parts within this machinery, when viewed separately... seems incomplete. Let consider the individual parts as individual 'selves' . Individual selves when they focus on themselves and believe themselves as separated, will be seen as 'incomplete and dysfunctional'. If the individual part sees others as individual parts... they will only see incompleteness and perhaps mistakes...This is because... the individuals cannot see the Perfection(of 'It is because It is') of the totality. In the totality, all is good ( 'all is good' is not a dualistic good/bad..but an acceptance of 'is it because it is...what is') ... However, seem as separated parts ... things seems problematic.
The individual parts can be liken to 'the souls' that formulate the thoughts... forming the personality of individual selves. From my understanding, these personality selves changes all the time... from one incarnation to another... the personality may not be the same... -
agreed on the individual parts and whole part. like the lip entity forgive the teeth entity when it accidentally bite it. as both are one whole human entity, so to speak in a smaller perspective.Originally posted by longchen:Imagine this...
All that is (omnipresent Oneness) as a vast interconnected machinery. All That Is is perfect... because it is complete/whole. Emptiness is not empty but full.....but our individual minds cannot conceive the fullness.
The individual parts within this machinery, when viewed separately... seems incomplete. Let consider the individual parts as individual 'selves' . Individual selves when they focus on themselves and believe themselves as separated, will be seen as 'incomplete and dysfunctional'. If the individual part sees others as individual parts... they will only see incompleteness and perhaps mistakes...This is because... the individuals cannot see the Perfection(of 'It is because It is') of the totality. In the totality, all is good ( 'all is good' is not a dualistic good/bad..but an acceptance of 'is it because it is...what is') ... However, seem as separated parts ... things seems problematic.
The individual parts can be liken to 'the souls' that formulate the thoughts... forming the personality of individual selves. From my understanding, these personality selves changes all the time... from one incarnation to another... the personality may not be the same...
Quantum Metaphysics also have this concept:
http://www.quantum-metaphysics.com/essay.htmIt is useful to introduce the following two definitions:
this is also according with Hua Yen Sutra.
a.) A "source-entity" is a whole at any dimensional order to which a part belongs, regardless how many orders are in between. A source-entity is like any ancestor, no matter how many generations ago.
b.) A "sub-entity" is any part that belongs to a source-entity, regardless how many orders are in between, like a descendant from any ancestor, no matter how many generations ago.
/\ -
Six senses are tools but empty of value. They are tools like keys to open door to "real".
Yes thoughts cannot be stop by thougths.
I feels the sex senses, thoughts, life .... are flows of entities. Consistantly flowing, draging (So call "Gu Hai")
thru these tools, realisations of non-self arises, thru non-self arises understand of truth arisies, .... -
Hi Sinweiy,Originally posted by sinweiy:agreed on the individual parts and whole part. like the lip entity forgive the teeth entity when it accidentally bite it. as both are one whole human entity, so to speak in a smaller perspective.
Quantum Metaphysics also have this concept:
http://www.quantum-metaphysics.com/essay.htm
Thanks for the essay on quantum metaphysic.
It is very very interesting! and shows that science is converging into matters that are previously considered spiritual.
According to other mystics that I am conversing with, there might be 12 dimensions/plane of consciousness that forms our reality. However, Reality is in the here and the now... and we need not climb up all the way in the dimension/planes of consciousness. -
Yes I have also heard previously that Buddhism's model (and maybe other mystical traditions too) is similar to the findings on Quantum Physics.Originally posted by longchen:Hi Sinweiy,
Thanks for the essay on quantum metaphysic.
It is very very interesting! and shows that science is converging into matters that are previously considered spiritual.
According to other mystics that I am conversing with, there might be 12 dimensions/plane of consciousness that forms our reality. However, Reality is in the here and the now... and we need not climb up all the way in the dimension/planes of consciousness.
Planes of consciousness? Not sure what you mean, but I know there are 8 Jhanas. Each person's path is different according to their practises, but for me, my master transmit the dharma of sudden transcendence, which means transcending the three worlds instantaneously. That means it is without the need of going through different jhanas. However, unfortunately not many have the high capacity to awaken to that dharma... I heard there are quite many people of higher capacity, just by receiving the transmission from my master or my dharma teacher, and receiving their blessings, they receive a sudden awakening. -
There is a very interesting dhamma talk by Ajahn Brahamvamso.
http://media.bswa.org/audio/mp3/Brahmavamso_2001_10_19.mp3
It's called Buddhism & Science. Ajahn Brahmavamso used to say, "Buddhism is the ONLY True Science."
Ajahn Brahmavamso used to b a scientist/quantum physicist (i think) before renouncing. You can hear it from the talk itself. -
Albert Einstein, the world's well known scientist, is also very supportive of Buddhism.
pls read the recent posting of quotes by albert einstein: http://buddhism.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=122948&page=2
Einstein's relationship with quantum physics was quite remarkable. He was the first, even before Max Planck, the discoverer of the quantum, to say that quantum theory was revolutionary. His idea of light quanta was a landmark break with the classical understanding of physics. In 1909, Einstein presented his first paper to a gathering of physicists and told them that they must find some way to understand waves and particles together.
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This remarkable book contains over 120 sayings from the founders of modern physics paired with parallel sayings from the seminal works of Buddhist, Hindu and Taoist contemplatives. Einstein and Buddha is a fascinating collection of quotes that challenges us to think deeper about the relationship between modern physics and mystical insight. Although these two ways of understanding and investigating reality have significant differences, the parallels suggest that they share a mysterious and profound connection. -
Hi Eternal Now,Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes I have also heard previously that Buddhism's model (and maybe other mystical traditions too) is similar to the findings on Quantum Physics.
Planes of consciousness? Not sure what you mean, but I know there are 8 Jhanas. Each person's path is different according to their practises, but for me, my master transmit the dharma of sudden transcendence, which means transcending the three worlds instantaneously. That means it is without the need of going through different jhanas. However, unfortunately not many have the high capacity to awaken to that dharma... I heard there are quite many people of higher capacity, just by receiving the transmission from my master or my dharma teacher, and receiving their blessings, they receive a sudden awakening.
I think the planes of consciousness roughly equates to the Jhana... perhaps there are some differences. Different traditional have different ways of differentiating... some Western mystical tradition even say that within a plane there are 12 subplanes... making up 144 levels.
As for sudden awakening, I think it is possible... Your master must be very capable in order to do that. I also think that the awakening need not go through the Jhana... When I first expereince pure awareness... I did not pass through all the Jhanas... This had been puzzling for me... because I previously thought it must be 'above' all the jhanas. Now, I know... it is there all-along in the here and now.
Actually, to say 'in the here and now'... is not exactly accurate. But, I can't think of a better way to describe. The fact is, there is no past and no future, past and future are memories and thoughts. Each moment is a Now... only thoughts give the impression of time. -
Originally posted by longchen:
This one, from Diamond Sutra, should be more accurate
[b]
Hi Eternal Now,
I think the planes of consciousness roughly equates to the Jhana... perhaps there are some differences. Different traditional have different ways of differentiating... some Western mystical tradition even say that within a plane there are 12 subplanes... making up 144 levels.
As for sudden awakening, I think it is possible... Your master must be very capable in order to do that. I also think that the awakening need not go through the Jhana... When I first expereince pure awareness... I did not pass through all the Jhanas... This had been puzzling for me... because I previously thought it must be 'above' all the jhanas. Now, I know... it is there all-along in the here and now.
Actually, to say 'in the here and now'... is not exactly accurate. But, I can't think of a better way to describe. The fact is, there is no past and no future, past and future are memories and thoughts. Each moment is a Now... only thoughts give the impression of time.
:
Subhuti, it is impossible to retain past mind, impossible to hold on to present mind, and impossible to grasp future mind for in none of its activities does the mind have substance or existence.
Even Present Mind is ungraspable. Grasping an image of the Present, it becomes the 'past'. -
Six sense doors are dangerous because it is also a door for the Maras to enter! Guard it well with MindfulnessOriginally posted by surfer188:Six senses are tools but empty of value. They are tools like keys to open door to "real".
Yes thoughts cannot be stop by thougths.
I feels the sex senses, thoughts, life .... are flows of entities. Consistantly flowing, draging (So call "Gu Hai")
thru these tools, realisations of non-self arises, thru non-self arises understand of truth arisies, .... But yes, six senses are also important. Some people achieve very high jhana - formless jhana. After death their consciousness is absorbed in jhana - e.g infinite space, infinite consciousness, etc. Their jhana may last billions of years, bu they have no chance of attaining enlightenment - because no enlightened teacher could speak the dharma to them (they don't have body, they don't have six senses). -
ThanksOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:This one, from Diamond Sutra, should be more accurate:
Subhuti, it is impossible to retain past mind, impossible to hold on to present mind, and impossible to grasp future mind for in none of its activities does the mind have substance or existence.
Even Present Mind is ungraspable. Grasping an image of the Present, it becomes the 'past'. -
Hi longchen,
It is ungraspable not because the Ultimate Object cannot be the subject of observation; but rather there is really no such ‘ultimate object’ hiding behind anywhere. A ‘someone’ inside somewhere is from the very beginning a mistake. True authenticity comes when we realized that any form of ‘centricity’ is illusionary.
To experience the Pure Presence of Isness, “I AMness” must completely dissolve. The Pure Presence you experienced is non-local and has no-center. It becomes an ‘I AM’ due to linear mode of analysis. If you have time do explore into insight meditation and the essence of ‘Emptiness’
Regards,
Thusness -
Hi Thusness,Originally posted by Thusness:Hi longchen,
It is ungraspable not because the Ultimate Object cannot be the subject of observation; but rather there is really no such ‘ultimate object’ hiding behind anywhere. A ‘someone’ inside somewhere is from the very beginning a mistake. True authenticity comes when we realized that any form of ‘centricity’ is illusionary.
To experience the Pure Presence of Isness, “I AMness” must completely dissolve. The Pure Presence you experienced is non-local and has no-center. It becomes an ‘I AM’ due to linear mode of analysis. If you have time do explore into insight meditation and the essence of ‘Emptiness’
Regards,
Thusness
OK. Will do so.
I have a question that hopefully you can answer... if I Amness completely dissolves won't we have difficulty relating to normal society?
BTW, nice to hear from you again.
Regards. -
Hi Thusness, long time no see! Welcome back!Originally posted by Thusness:Hi longchen,
It is ungraspable not because the Ultimate Object cannot be the subject of observation; but rather there is really no such ‘ultimate object’ hiding behind anywhere. A ‘someone’ inside somewhere is from the very beginning a mistake. True authenticity comes when we realized that any form of ‘centricity’ is illusionary.
To experience the Pure Presence of Isness, “I AMness” must completely dissolve. The Pure Presence you experienced is non-local and has no-center. It becomes an ‘I AM’ due to linear mode of analysis. If you have time do explore into insight meditation and the essence of ‘Emptiness’
Regards,
Thusness
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Hi Eternal Now,
I am equally glad to see u again. You are as active as before. I told you that I will be away for some time and will be away again. Pretty much to cope.
Do take good care of yourself.
Regards,
Thusness. -
Hi Long Chen,
Nice to see you and Eternal Now too. As to your question whether one's enlightenment will hinder oneself from relating in a normal society, I supposed not. For one that has arrived at the fundamental ground, whatever role he assumes, whether as a monk, teacher, businessman or a beggar, he remains free. When it comes to practical application, he will naturally know how to harmonize and fuses completely with everything.
In Buddhism, No-Self is not a question of morality; it is a question of the true nature of the phenomenon reality. From the marco universe to the quantum world of quarks, from time to space, from body to consciousness, all exhibit this characteristic. Emptiness prevails everywhere. Even right now at this moment, we witness the Emptiness truth in action -- the moment ceases as it arises. There is no changing thing (Self), only change. Viewing things as solid entities and categorizing them as 'this' or 'that' is due to the poverty of our thinking mechanism, it is not reality.
The act of labeling will make 'things' appear solid and separated, to the extent that even when we are dealing with the very essence of ourselves -- the pure awareness, we make it an 'I AM'. 'I AMness' is perhaps the furthest the Thinking-Mind can give way and it is never meant merely as an expression for communication. We seek, find and attempt to locate it as if it is a solid entity hiding somewhere. As long as this wrong way of 'seeing' persists, there will be attachments and sufferings. This is the way it is; you cannot eliminate attachment with an 'I'. Therefore the capacity to see by awakening the emptiness wisdom is especially important in Buddhism.
Bare attention that is taught in insight meditation trains one to see without labeling, without a layer of words. It presents us a new mode of experiencing reality as an ever changing inseparable flux. Without this layer of thought, 'I' has no place to reside and slowly the bond of 'I' will loosen and subside. If the karmic condition ripens, the mysterious relationship between the pure awareness and the phenomenon world will be revealed.
The experience of I AM is an intuitive experience of our naked consciousness. It is seeing Consciousness face to face and touching Consciousness directly without in between thoughts. But its Emptiness nature must be understood to progress further. I got to go now....do take care.
Thusness -
Hi Thusness,
Thank you very much for your explanation. It is most important. I am most grateful.
After reading, what you wrote... I went to meditate.
Observing the thoughts that arises, there appears to be a relationship between
each thoughts. Occasionally, a desire to recall arises, a new thought will arise that does a recall. But each moment seems to be a fresh moment. .. with no second and no past.
The continuity and the recall of thoughts and memories arises one after another... but there appears to be NO ONE observing the thoughts. The observer is an impression... there is no observer. The impression of a self appears to be due to the continuity and the recalling of memories.
If this is correct... then the 'I' is but the impression caused by the continuity and recalling ability.
This is accurate?
Kind regards and respect.
Longchen/simpo -
Posted by Thusness:
Yup... agree with this.
As to your question whether one's enlightenment will hinder oneself from relating in a normal society, I supposed not. For one that has arrived at the fundamental ground, whatever role he assumes, whether as a monk, teacher, businessman or a beggar, he remains free. When it comes to practical application, he will naturally know how to harmonize and fuses completely with everything.
My daily activities are not unusual,
I'm just naturally in harmony with them.
Grasping nothing, discarding nothing...
Supernatural power and marvelous activity -
Drawing water and carrying firewood.
Layman Pang-yunPosted by longchen:
I think that is true. I think the impression of continuity is caused by the 7th consciousness [ego consciousness] attached to 8th consciousness [storehouse consciousness] as its self.
..The impression of a self appears to be due to the continuity and the recalling of memories.
If this is correct... then the 'I' is but the impression caused by the continuity and recalling ability... -
Yes LongChen,
There is thinking but there is no thinker. Succession from one moment to another does not require an ‘I’. The ‘I’ prevents direct perception. This must be extended to the rest of the 5 senses (eye, ear, nose, tongue, body). The experience of no-self must be thorough. -
Hi Thusness,Originally posted by Thusness:Yes LongChen,
There is thinking but there is no thinker. Succession from one moment to another does not require an ‘I’. The ‘I’ prevents direct perception. This must be extended to the rest of the 5 senses (eye, ear, nose, tongue, body). The experience of no-self must be thorough.
Thank you so much.. Will do so.
For Buddha to spot the difference, his perception must have been razor-sharp and fast. -
Hi LongChen,
Yes indeed. Buddha is so clear, precise and accurate. Such penetrating insight and clarity must come from a mind that is completely free.
After experiencing the Emptiness nature of consciousness in all the six senses without labeling and words (directly felt and intuitively experienced as in the case of "I AM" that u experienced), do explore into the 18 dhatus and authenticate your intuitive experience with the 4 dharma Seals. -
Hi Thusness,Originally posted by Thusness:Hi LongChen,
Yes indeed. Buddha is so clear, precise and accurate. Such penetrating insight and clarity must come from a mind that is completely free.
After experiencing the Emptiness nature of consciousness in all the six senses without labeling and words (directly felt and intuitively experienced as in the case of "I AM" that u experienced), do explore into the 18 dhatus and authenticate your intuitive experience with the 4 dharma Seals.
I will do so as you suggested.
Thanks again -
Hi longchen,Originally posted by longchen:I think I agree mostly with what Namelessness write.
I totally agree that the thoughts' original source is pure awareness... but it passes through 'the soul'.
The main different is that Namelessness sees 'the soul' as a filter. I see 'the soul' as a reflection of pure awareness. My understanding is that essentially pure awareness is everything... So if it is everything... there cannot be a filter... because the filter must be separated from it, in order to counter pure awareness. Rather 'soul' has be a manifestation of pure awareness. If it is a manifestation... it must reflect pure awareness's qualities... because Pure awareness is all there is.
Pure awareness is not good and wise... IT JUST IS. and thus good, bad, moral, whatever has no meaning for it. Pure awareness is everything and therefore cannot exclude anything... it is wise, ignorance and ALL.
Just a sharing... nothing personal and i have a great respect for Namelessness.
I apologize that my PhD program makes me so busy that I couldn't reply to your last msg personally. I agree with your referring to soul as the reflection of pure awareness. Filter is just a metaphor and so is soul. Soul is just a temporal second product. Anything that is not ORIGINAL is illusive. Even pure awareness is not ORIGINAL. I believe you understand what IÂ’m saying by FEELing from what I said but not from my words. ThatÂ’s the key to maintaining ORIGINAL without falling into the trap of conception.
Cheers -
Hi Namelessness,Originally posted by namelessness:Hi longchen,
I apologize that my PhD program makes me so busy that I couldn't reply to your last msg personally. I agree with your referring to soul as the reflection of pure awareness. Filter is just a metaphor and so is soul. Soul is just a temporal second product. Anything that is not ORIGINAL is illusive. Even pure awareness is not ORIGINAL. I believe you understand what IÂ’m saying by FEELing from what I said but not from my words. ThatÂ’s the key to maintaining ORIGINAL without falling into the trap of conception.
Cheers
I understand what you mean by FEELing. Thanks.
And good luck for your PhD... wah ... you must be very smart!