Sutra and Mantra
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Wat's sutra n wat's mantra?
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantra
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Sutra (in Chinese known transliterated as xiu tuo luo , or in ancient Indian dialect ,Pali as Sutta )
means linkage
which is the meaning of a series of matter link through a series of teaching in a book
In the Mahayana Sutra ,the central idea of emptiness was emphasised in
all the sutra ,whereas there are several sub themes in the sutra discussed
note here i dont use the word preach as I regards Buddha as a teacher who
discovered truth and not invented them .
His teaching is in the form of a gathering of monks and lay person , and heavenly beings , Bodhisattvas and other heavenly dwellers.
There are the 12 different kinds of teaching method of sutra , for example ,some is upon a silly mistake made by His disciple ,He give advice to the disciple and began on a teaching , or sometimes when the subject matter is too deep , quite impossible for the monks to started , He started teaching without asking (e.g. Amitabha Sutra).
Mantra is the Compassion phrases of words given by a certain Bodhisattva on the practice to extinguish bad karma or for sentient beings to reached another height in practice.
Like for example the Heart Mantra of Avalokiteshvara is (Om mani Padme Hum)
or Amitabha Rebirth Mantra ( Namo Amitabhaya tathagathaya tadyatha Amritabh bhopi Amritabh Siddam bhopi Amritabh pegalanthi Amritabha pegalanthop gamin ga ga tzidogali svaha
) -
Originally posted by bohiruci:
i also learned that there are 'existence' (you) doctrine like that of pureland school.
In the Mahayana Sutra ,the central idea of emptiness was emphasised in all the sutra ,...
see chart:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=21448&st=0&p=303429&#entry303429
---
Excerpts From Master Han-Shan's
Dream Roamings
Pure Land of the Patriarchs is a translation of selected passages from the sermons and writings of Zen Master Han-shan Te-ch'ing, one of the three "dragon-elephants" of Ming Buddhism.These passages originally appeared in the Han-Shan Ta-Shih Meng-Yu Chi (Collection of Master Han-Shan's Dream Roamings).
http://www.ymba.org/han/hanfrm.htm
All teachings in the Tripitaka (Buddhist Canon) are tools to induce sentient beings to sever attachment. To those attached to Emptiness, Buddha Sakyamuni taught Existence to break that grasp. To those attached to Existence, He taught Emptiness so as to loosen that grasp. To those grasping at both Emptiness and Existence, He taught "neither Emptiness nor Existence" to break that grasp. Lastly, to those grasping at "neither Emptiness nor Existence," He taught both Emptiness and Existence to break that attachment. (1)
In short, the purpose is to draw all sentient beings away from attachments. That is the Buddhist teaching of salvation. There is no other way to return to the source [the Mind], though there are many different expedient methods. We Buddhist students and practitioners should not become attached to these methods. When thoughts arise in our mind discriminating between what method is right and what method is wrong, that is against the purpose of the Buddhas and is a deviation from the Buddhist path.
For example, when Buddha Sakyamuni taught the Dharma of Emptiness, His message was not that it was the opposite of Existence, but rather that it was Truth and Reality. What are Truth and Reality? Let me quote the T'ien T'ai Patriarch Chih I:
When one dharma is empty, then all dharmas are empty; there is no separate Non-Emptiness. Without Non-Emptiness to contrast with Emptiness, Emptiness itself is unattainable [i.e., does not exist].
Similarly, when Buddha Sakyamuni taught Existence, this was not the opposite of Emptiness, but was rather to say:
When one dharma exists, then all dharmas exist; there is no separate Non-Existence. Without Non-Existence to contrast with Existence, Existence itself is unattainable.
We should understand the true meaning of Emptiness and Existence. Nothing we say about Emptiness or Existence is attainable (i.e., truly valid). And since this is so, why are we still attached to them?
The Great Master Han-Shan thoroughly understood the goal of the Buddhas. In tune with the minds of the Patriarchs, he spread the Dharma (teaching), grasping at neither Emptiness nor Existence, neither Non-Emptiness nor Non-Existence -- thereby manifesting the Middle Way. Thus, he promoted the cultivation of both Zen and Pure Land, pointing to the non-duality of Emptiness and Existence. That teaching is "Wonderful Enlightenment" (see Glossary).
When practicing Zen, at the beginning of cultivation the expedient of Emptiness is used. But Zen does not mean Emptiness, nor does it mean Existence. Pure Land uses the expedient of Existence at the start of practice, but Pure Land does not mean Existence nor does it mean Emptiness. When Sakyamuni Buddha spoke of Emptiness and Existence, it was to reach human beings of different capacities. The Dharma itself transcends Emptiness and Existence. All methods taught by Buddha Sakyamuni are like prescriptions; since people suffer from different diseases, they need many kinds of prescriptions. It does not matter whether the medicine is expensive or cheap. As long as it is effective, it is a good medicine .
Those who practice Zen or Pure Land should all understand this truth: "all Dharma methods are equal and none is superior or inferior." No one who really understands the deep meaning of the Dharma can have the kind of obstinate prejudice that sees inferiority and superiority between the various Buddhist methods. No one with that kind of obstinate prejudice can gain any real benefit from the Dharma.
For example, the Zen school teaches meditation on a "hua-t'ou" (wato). Hua-t'ou means "before words," before a single thought rises up in one's mind. (2) What is there before a single thought rises up? It is No Thought. No thought is one's own Pure Mind, one's own Buddha Nature, one's own Original Face. Meditating on a hua-t'ou does not mean repeating it, because the repetition of a hua-t'ou is also a great false thought. Rather, to recognize one's own Original Face is the purpose of a hua-t'ou.
The Pure Land school teaches Buddha Recitation -- the repetition of Amitabha Buddha's name. However, it does not teach merely to recite by mouth, like a parrot mindlessly squawking out words. Buddha Recitation centered on the mind is real Buddha Recitation. This is because Mind is Buddha, Buddha is Mind. As the sutras state: "The Mind, Buddhas and Sentient Beings are undifferentiated and equal." Outside of Mind, there is no Buddha, outside of Buddha, there is no Mind. Buddha is Mind, Mind is Buddha. If a practitioner recites the Buddha's name in this manner, he will gradually arrive at the stage where there is neither Mind as subject nor Buddha as object. And there is neither a subject reciting nor an object of recitation. This is the stage before the arising of a single thought. This is the hua-t'ou and this is one's own Original Face. If the practitioner can really understand the Dharma as transcending subject and object, what difference is there between Zen and Pure Land?
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Yes , there is "existence" in the Pureland School , however is conditional "existence" .For example in the Larger Amitabha Sutra , it is said BUddha Amitabha will passed in Parinirvana and the next Pureland Guide ,Avalokiteshvara will be the Next Teacher of Western Paradise .Originally posted by sinweiy:i also learned that there are 'existence' (you) doctrine like that of pureland school.
see chart:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=21448&st=0&p=303429&#entry303429
---
Excerpts From Master Han-Shan's
Dream Roamings
Pure Land of the Patriarchs is a translation of selected passages from the sermons and writings of Zen Master Han-shan Te-ch'ing, one of the three "dragon-elephants" of Ming Buddhism.These passages originally appeared in the Han-Shan Ta-Shih Meng-Yu Chi (Collection of Master Han-Shan's Dream Roamings).
http://www.ymba.org/han/hanfrm.htm
All teachings in the Tripitaka (Buddhist Canon) are tools to induce sentient beings to sever attachment. To those attached to Emptiness, Buddha Sakyamuni taught Existence to break that grasp. To those attached to Existence, He taught Emptiness so as to loosen that grasp. To those grasping at both Emptiness and Existence, He taught "neither Emptiness nor Existence" to break that grasp. Lastly, to those grasping at "neither Emptiness nor Existence," He taught both Emptiness and Existence to break that attachment. (1)
In short, the purpose is to draw all sentient beings away from attachments. That is the Buddhist teaching of salvation. There is no other way to return to the source [the Mind], though there are many different expedient methods. We Buddhist students and practitioners should not become attached to these methods. When thoughts arise in our mind discriminating between what method is right and what method is wrong, that is against the purpose of the Buddhas and is a deviation from the Buddhist path.
For example, when Buddha Sakyamuni taught the Dharma of Emptiness, His message was not that it was the opposite of Existence, but rather that it was Truth and Reality. What are Truth and Reality? Let me quote the T'ien T'ai Patriarch Chih I:
When one dharma is empty, then all dharmas are empty; there is no separate Non-Emptiness. Without Non-Emptiness to contrast with Emptiness, Emptiness itself is unattainable [i.e., does not exist].
Similarly, when Buddha Sakyamuni taught Existence, this was not the opposite of Emptiness, but was rather to say:
When one dharma exists, then all dharmas exist; there is no separate Non-Existence. Without Non-Existence to contrast with Existence, Existence itself is unattainable.
We should understand the true meaning of Emptiness and Existence. Nothing we say about Emptiness or Existence is attainable (i.e., truly valid). And since this is so, why are we still attached to them?
The Great Master Han-Shan thoroughly understood the goal of the Buddhas. In tune with the minds of the Patriarchs, he spread the Dharma (teaching), grasping at neither Emptiness nor Existence, neither Non-Emptiness nor Non-Existence -- thereby manifesting the Middle Way. Thus, he promoted the cultivation of both Zen and Pure Land, pointing to the non-duality of Emptiness and Existence. That teaching is "Wonderful Enlightenment" (see Glossary).
When practicing Zen, at the beginning of cultivation the expedient of Emptiness is used. But Zen does not mean Emptiness, nor does it mean Existence. Pure Land uses the expedient of Existence at the start of practice, but Pure Land does not mean Existence nor does it mean Emptiness. When Sakyamuni Buddha spoke of Emptiness and Existence, it was to reach human beings of different capacities. The Dharma itself transcends Emptiness and Existence. All methods taught by Buddha Sakyamuni are like prescriptions; since people suffer from different diseases, they need many kinds of prescriptions. It does not matter whether the medicine is expensive or cheap. As long as it is effective, it is a good medicine .
Those who practice Zen or Pure Land should all understand this truth: "all Dharma methods are equal and none is superior or inferior." No one who really understands the deep meaning of the Dharma can have the kind of obstinate prejudice that sees inferiority and superiority between the various Buddhist methods. No one with that kind of obstinate prejudice can gain any real benefit from the Dharma.
For example, the Zen school teaches meditation on a "hua-t'ou" (wato). Hua-t'ou means "before words," before a single thought rises up in one's mind. (2) What is there before a single thought rises up? It is No Thought. No thought is one's own Pure Mind, one's own Buddha Nature, one's own Original Face. Meditating on a hua-t'ou does not mean repeating it, because the repetition of a hua-t'ou is also a great false thought. Rather, to recognize one's own Original Face is the purpose of a hua-t'ou.
The Pure Land school teaches Buddha Recitation -- the repetition of Amitabha Buddha's name. However, it does not teach merely to recite by mouth, like a parrot mindlessly squawking out words. Buddha Recitation centered on the mind is real Buddha Recitation. This is because Mind is Buddha, Buddha is Mind. As the sutras state: "The Mind, Buddhas and Sentient Beings are undifferentiated and equal." Outside of Mind, there is no Buddha, outside of Buddha, there is no Mind. Buddha is Mind, Mind is Buddha. If a practitioner recites the Buddha's name in this manner, he will gradually arrive at the stage where there is neither Mind as subject nor Buddha as object. And there is neither a subject reciting nor an object of recitation. This is the stage before the arising of a single thought. This is the hua-t'ou and this is one's own Original Face. If the practitioner can really understand the Dharma as transcending subject and object, what difference is there between Zen and Pure Land?
/\
that will happen on a astronomical aeons later as in the Larger Amitabha Sutra .
What is the 3 thing to verify it is a Buddhist sutra ?
the 3 Dharma Seal which one additional one often
All thing is impermanence
All thing is without self
Nirvana is the best solitude
All perceived sensation is suffering -
Originally posted by bohiruci:
actually, Pureland is ultimately neither empty nor exist (fei kong fei you).
[b]
Yes , there is "existence" in the Pureland School , however is conditional "existence" .]
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Sutra, or 'jing' in chinese, are the spoken teachings of Buddha. Everyone sure know of heart sutra, or 'xin jing'. Just an example. And for mantra.. is 'zhou4'.. its a reptitative chanting. Like 'Om mani padme hum'... for example. 'Om mani padme hum' is not a set of teaching by Buddha... mantra chanting itself is a meditative practise. When a person reach a stage of one pointedness (subject and object becomes one), he enters into chanting samadhi. Many mantras also have their divine powers.. for example great compassionate mantra (da bei zhou) is known for its power for healing.Originally posted by Arena:Wat's sutra n wat's mantra? -
my source of meaning comes from the agama sutta , not from my own interpretation of suttaOriginally posted by bohiruci:Sutra (in Chinese known transliterated as xiu tuo luo , or in ancient Indian dialect ,Pali as Sutta )
means linkage
which is the meaning of a series of matter link through a series of teaching in a book
In the Mahayana Sutra ,the central idea of emptiness was emphasised in
all the sutra ,whereas there are several sub themes in the sutra discussed
note here i dont use the word preach as I regards Buddha as a teacher who
discovered truth and not invented them .
His teaching is in the form of a gathering of monks and lay person , and heavenly beings , Bodhisattvas and other heavenly dwellers.
There are the 12 different kinds of teaching method of sutra , for example ,some is upon a silly mistake made by His disciple ,He give advice to the disciple and began on a teaching , or sometimes when the subject matter is too deep , quite impossible for the monks to started , He started teaching without asking (e.g. Amitabha Sutra).
Mantra is the Compassion phrases of words given by a certain Bodhisattva on the practice to extinguish bad karma or for sentient beings to reached another height in practice.
Like for example the Heart Mantra of Avalokiteshvara is (Om mani Padme Hum)
or Amitabha Rebirth Mantra ( Namo Amitabhaya tathagathaya tadyatha Amritabh bhopi Amritabh Siddam bhopi Amritabh pegalanthi Amritabha pegalanthop gamin ga ga tzidogali svaha
) -
You should have posted earlier for SUICINE to seeOriginally posted by sinweiy:i also learned that there are 'existence' (you) doctrine like that of pureland school.
see chart:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=21448&st=0&p=303429&#entry303429
---
Excerpts From Master Han-Shan's
Dream Roamings
Pure Land of the Patriarchs is a translation of selected passages from the sermons and writings of Zen Master Han-shan Te-ch'ing, one of the three "dragon-elephants" of Ming Buddhism.These passages originally appeared in the Han-Shan Ta-Shih Meng-Yu Chi (Collection of Master Han-Shan's Dream Roamings).
http://www.ymba.org/han/hanfrm.htm
All teachings in the Tripitaka (Buddhist Canon) are tools to induce sentient beings to sever attachment. To those attached to Emptiness, Buddha Sakyamuni taught Existence to break that grasp. To those attached to Existence, He taught Emptiness so as to loosen that grasp. To those grasping at both Emptiness and Existence, He taught "neither Emptiness nor Existence" to break that grasp. Lastly, to those grasping at "neither Emptiness nor Existence," He taught both Emptiness and Existence to break that attachment. (1)
In short, the purpose is to draw all sentient beings away from attachments. That is the Buddhist teaching of salvation. There is no other way to return to the source [the Mind], though there are many different expedient methods. We Buddhist students and practitioners should not become attached to these methods. When thoughts arise in our mind discriminating between what method is right and what method is wrong, that is against the purpose of the Buddhas and is a deviation from the Buddhist path.
For example, when Buddha Sakyamuni taught the Dharma of Emptiness, His message was not that it was the opposite of Existence, but rather that it was Truth and Reality. What are Truth and Reality? Let me quote the T'ien T'ai Patriarch Chih I:
When one dharma is empty, then all dharmas are empty; there is no separate Non-Emptiness. Without Non-Emptiness to contrast with Emptiness, Emptiness itself is unattainable [i.e., does not exist].
Similarly, when Buddha Sakyamuni taught Existence, this was not the opposite of Emptiness, but was rather to say:
When one dharma exists, then all dharmas exist; there is no separate Non-Existence. Without Non-Existence to contrast with Existence, Existence itself is unattainable.
We should understand the true meaning of Emptiness and Existence. Nothing we say about Emptiness or Existence is attainable (i.e., truly valid). And since this is so, why are we still attached to them?
The Great Master Han-Shan thoroughly understood the goal of the Buddhas. In tune with the minds of the Patriarchs, he spread the Dharma (teaching), grasping at neither Emptiness nor Existence, neither Non-Emptiness nor Non-Existence -- thereby manifesting the Middle Way. Thus, he promoted the cultivation of both Zen and Pure Land, pointing to the non-duality of Emptiness and Existence. That teaching is "Wonderful Enlightenment" (see Glossary).
When practicing Zen, at the beginning of cultivation the expedient of Emptiness is used. But Zen does not mean Emptiness, nor does it mean Existence. Pure Land uses the expedient of Existence at the start of practice, but Pure Land does not mean Existence nor does it mean Emptiness. When Sakyamuni Buddha spoke of Emptiness and Existence, it was to reach human beings of different capacities. The Dharma itself transcends Emptiness and Existence. All methods taught by Buddha Sakyamuni are like prescriptions; since people suffer from different diseases, they need many kinds of prescriptions. It does not matter whether the medicine is expensive or cheap. As long as it is effective, it is a good medicine .
Those who practice Zen or Pure Land should all understand this truth: "all Dharma methods are equal and none is superior or inferior." No one who really understands the deep meaning of the Dharma can have the kind of obstinate prejudice that sees inferiority and superiority between the various Buddhist methods. No one with that kind of obstinate prejudice can gain any real benefit from the Dharma.
For example, the Zen school teaches meditation on a "hua-t'ou" (wato). Hua-t'ou means "before words," before a single thought rises up in one's mind. (2) What is there before a single thought rises up? It is No Thought. No thought is one's own Pure Mind, one's own Buddha Nature, one's own Original Face. Meditating on a hua-t'ou does not mean repeating it, because the repetition of a hua-t'ou is also a great false thought. Rather, to recognize one's own Original Face is the purpose of a hua-t'ou.
The Pure Land school teaches Buddha Recitation -- the repetition of Amitabha Buddha's name. However, it does not teach merely to recite by mouth, like a parrot mindlessly squawking out words. Buddha Recitation centered on the mind is real Buddha Recitation. This is because Mind is Buddha, Buddha is Mind. As the sutras state: "The Mind, Buddhas and Sentient Beings are undifferentiated and equal." Outside of Mind, there is no Buddha, outside of Buddha, there is no Mind. Buddha is Mind, Mind is Buddha. If a practitioner recites the Buddha's name in this manner, he will gradually arrive at the stage where there is neither Mind as subject nor Buddha as object. And there is neither a subject reciting nor an object of recitation. This is the stage before the arising of a single thought. This is the hua-t'ou and this is one's own Original Face. If the practitioner can really understand the Dharma as transcending subject and object, what difference is there between Zen and Pure Land?
/\
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that will depends on whether you have realised to that levelOriginally posted by sinweiy:actually, Pureland is ultimately neither empty nor exist (fei kong fei you).
/\
we always said we should see at different viewpoint ,as we are not mahasattvas or Buddha yet , we shouldnt just quote the ultimate terminology.
that understanding will only come when we attained Buddhahood -
i think, not necessary have to reach so high to just 'understand'.Originally posted by bohiruci:that will depends on whether you have realised to that level
we always said we should see at different viewpoint ,as we are not mahasattvas or Buddha yet , we shouldnt just quote the ultimate terminology.
that understanding will only come when we attained Buddhahood
in Shurangama Sutra for example. Ananda was just a stream-entry when He can understand what the Buddha was saying while the Arahats don't get what the Buddha was saying. therefore Ananda got the wisdom/prajna, but lack the samathi. the Arahats on the other hand got samathi, but lack full wisdom.
in the thread on the 52 stages of bodhisattvas. there are five more that are below the first stage, called Yuan Wu Pin Wei. They are "ordinary" folks from the Complete Teaching namely (1) Motivated, (2) study and practice, (3) explain (to others), (4) also carry out more than one of 6 perfections, (5) also carry out all of 6 perfections.
Ven Master Zhi Zhe is also a Wu Pin Wei.
There's something special about Wu Pin Wei. Even though they have not reach 1st faith bhumi, but their realisation of Dharma and the heart/ambition/bodhicitta is liken to a tenth bhumi(!) however it's defilements are still intact, which mean not severed yet. It's like an express kindergarden school taking the test of university! They are also call Da Xin Fan Fu (literally means Big hearted common people. )
http://www.amtb.org.tw/14/14-14-22.htm
ref:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=6142&st=0
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okie ,since you mention zhi zheOriginally posted by sinweiy:i think, not necessary have to reach so high to just 'understand'.
in Shurangama Sutra for example. Ananda was just a stream-entry when He can understand what the Buddha was saying while the Arahats don't get what the Buddha was saying. therefore Ananda got the wisdom/prajna, but lack the samathi. the Arahats on the other hand got samathi, but lack full wisdom.
in the thread on the 52 stages of bodhisattvas. there are five more that are below the first stage, called Yuan Wu Pin Wei. They are "ordinary" folks from the Complete Teaching namely (1) Motivated, (2) study and practice, (3) explain (to others), (4) also carry out more than one of 6 perfections, (5) also carry out all of 6 perfections.
Ven Master Zhi Zhe is also a Wu Pin Wei.
There's something special about Wu Pin Wei. Even though they have not reach 1st faith bhumi, but their realisation of Dharma and the heart/ambition/bodhicitta is liken to a tenth bhumi(!) however it's defilements are still intact, which mean not severed yet. It's like an express kindergarden school taking the test of university! They are also call Da Xin Fan Fu (literally means Big hearted common people. )
http://www.amtb.org.tw/14/14-14-22.htm
ref:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=6142&st=0
/\
i will said he is no ordinary folk
as the 3rd patriach of tientai school in china
He was the disciple of Hui Si who teach him the Lotus Sutra practice and upon reading
"One who practice dilligently , is one who truely give offering to the all Buddhas "
and saw the Unextinguished sight of Lotus Sutra Assembly (that means the Assembly and Sakyamuni Buddha have not finished preaching the Lotus Sutra )
based on the past practice of Zhi Zhe of Chih-I , I wont said He is an ordinary folks especially as He written the Great practise of Samadhi and Contemplation and the 6th Wonderful gate of Meditation
I will said we are only talking abt in words , but we will eventually have to realised it for ourselves
Buddhadharma is beyond words ; words is only a tool
just my views for sharing -
wel, as i heard from Master Chin Kung(one of His special student in the early years), He mentioned it in His book, that He could have been higher level, but Because, He had to handle the entire monasteryOriginally posted by bohiruci:okie ,since you mention zhi zhe
i will said he is no ordinary folk
as the 3rd patriach of tientai school in china
He was the disciple of Hui Si who teach him the Lotus Sutra practice and upon reading
"One who practice dilligently , is one who truely give offering to the all Buddhas "
and saw the Unextinguished sight of Lotus Sutra Assembly (that means the Assembly and Sakyamuni Buddha have not finished preaching the Lotus Sutra )
based on the past practice of Zhi Zhe of Chih-I , I wont said He is an ordinary folks especially as He written the Great practise of Samadhi and Contemplation and the 6th Wonderful gate of Meditation
I will said we are only talking abt in words , but we will eventually have to realised it for ourselves
Buddhadharma is beyond words ; words is only a tool
just my views for sharing
and deal with All His disciples that He said He's just a Wu Pin Wei.
and He also said to be reborn in the first abode of Land of Ulmost Bliss is good enough for Him.
/\ -
Originally posted by sinweiy:
sorry i mistook Zhang Jia Dashi to be Zhi Zhe Dashi. MCK was Zhang Jia Dashi's student, not Zhi Zhe Dashi.
wel, as i heard from Master Chin Kung(one of His special student in the early years), He mentioned it in His book, that He could have been higher level, but Because, He had to handle the entire monastery
and deal with All His disciples that He said He's just a Wu Pin Wei.
and He also said to be reborn in the first abode of Land of Ulmost Bliss is good enough for Him.
/\
[/b]
as for the proof that Zhi Zhe Dashi when departing told His disciples that He's just Wu Pin Wei, see link, last para.
http://www.ebud.net/book/showcoll.asp?no=93
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