View & Conduct
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Here is a wonderful quote by Padmasambhava:
“Do not lose the view in the conduct;
If you lose the view in the conduct, you will never have the chance to be liberated.
Do not lose the conduct in the view;
If you lose the conduct in the view, you stray into black diffusion.”
Would like to hear what you all understand from this quote.
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I am not too sure.... here is what I think:Originally posted by _wanderer_:Here is a wonderful quote by Padmasambhava:
“Do not lose the view in the conduct;
If you lose the view in the conduct, you will never have the chance to be liberated.
Do not lose the conduct in the view;
If you lose the conduct in the view, you stray into black diffusion.”
Would like to hear what you all understand from this quote.
View = Right View (as mentioned in the Eight-fold path to enlightenment).. Right View means seeing things as they truly are. If we have no right views, then we will be deluded in our conduct. We will hurl vulgarities and even cause violence... how then can we get liberated? We will get angry when things did not go our way. We may crave for something so deeply that we lose our lives as a result. If we have the 'right view', then if someone insults us, we will see them as under the influence of ignorance... just like an ignorant child... the anger is just a temporary effect conditioned by ignorance and is empty.
I do not know what it means by 'black diffusion' though. -
Yes Right View. You said that Right View means seeing things as they truly are. Can you elaborate on what the Right View is, and how it applies in conduct?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I am not too sure.... here is what I think:
View = Right View (as mentioned in the Eight-fold path to enlightenment).. Right View means seeing things as they truly are. If we have no right views, then we will be deluded in our conduct. We will hurl vulgarities and even cause violence... how then can we get liberated? We will get angry when things did not go our way. We may crave for something so deeply that we lose our lives as a result. If we have the 'right view', then if someone insults us, we will see them as under the influence of ignorance... just like an ignorant child... the anger is just a temporary effect conditioned by ignorance and is empty.
I do not know what it means by 'black diffusion' though. -
that say don't just study without practicing, it will only increase wrong view.
and don't practice without studying, it will only increase ignorance.
'study' is associated with 'view', while 'practice' is associated with 'conduct' per se.
both need to go hand in hand. hence for a correct proper/right view, we need to practice also in order to verify it.
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Do not lose the view of the Dharmakaya while in action... or we will not be liberated.
While in the Dharmakaya viewpoint, do not lose conduct(discriminative right action) or we will accumulate karma. -
Right view, seeing thing as they truly are... can be explained in terms of 4 noble truths, 4 seals, 3 dharma seals, etc. When we completely understand those truths, then we will be liberated in whatever we do. Then we will have true merits because merits is not merely virtous conduct but liberated conduct. But we also must not be caught up with any views. Otherwise it will become dharma-attachment (fa3-zhi2), then that is also wrong. If we are attached to emptiness, it is also extreme because emptiness is also empty.
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http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol8no3c.htm
'All phenomena arise by the aggregation of causes and conditions; all phenomena cease by the dispersion of causes and conditions.' How do we apply this Law of Causality?
Using the family to illustrate the Law of Causality, a family is established as a result of the aggregation of causes and conditions. Since the family has already been brought about by these various causes and conditions, we should therefore live peacefully and joyfully as a family. Fulfilling this positive causality for the family will leave us with no regrets in the future.
We shouldn't reckon presume that 'all forms are empty' (Buddhist philosophy that all things and phenomena are empty because they don't have an independent nature of their own.); you are 'empty', I am also 'empty' and we are all 'empty', and so we don't care about anything. This is wrong. Since all things result from aggregations of causes and conditions we must make good use of these causes and conditions.
As another example, it is only because I am here to give a Dharma talk that this bouquet of flowers has been prepared. Therefore, we should place these flowers nicely on the table so that people can appreciate them. If while we are admiring the flowers, a person comes by and declares, "Sigh, all phenomena arising from causes and conditions are empty. What use is there in having such a beautiful bouquet of flowers?" He then removes it and throws it away. This person may not be of sound mind, because by now you know about the Law of Causality, and you say that the flowers are empty. But, you are still physically here. You, as a 'person' have not emptied away! So how could you say that the flowers are empty? Therefore, you should diligently learn and practise what the Buddha taught, and cultivate. First of all empty the sentient being (i.e. the arising and ceasing of thoughts and feelings) within you, and then you will not find that things in the world are contradictory.
So from this, we see how that which is seemingly contradictory in the world, stems from failure to properly grasp the principles. Because when the principles have not been correctly understood, there cannot be coherence in their application to matters of the world. This leads to lack of roundedness and harmony in the way we deal with things. -
Longchen, care to explain your second statement? thanksOriginally posted by longchen:Do not lose the view of the Dharmakaya while in action... or we will not be liberated.
While in the Dharmakaya viewpoint, do not lose conduct(discriminative right action) or we will accumulate karma. -
This is what i have read from Dzogchen books.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Longchen, care to explain your second statement? thanks
It says that when one is in the Dharmakaya view... one will feel fearless/unaffectable by thoughts... . Because of this, some practitioners may feel that they can do anything they want including harmful acts. But if we do harmful acts, the karma will nevertheless comes back... -
Oh I see... your view is very similar to Wanderer's... maybe you all read the same booksOriginally posted by longchen:This is what i have read from Dzogchen books.
It says that when one is in the Dharmakaya view... one will feel fearless/unaffectable by thoughts... . Because of this, some practitioners may feel that they can do anything they want including harmful acts. But if we do harmful acts, the karma will nevertheless comes back...
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Eternal Now you can read my mind huh? lol no la we probably don't read same books.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Oh I see... your view is very similar to Wanderer's... maybe you all read the same books
But well, I do agree most with Longchen's post, though when you say "view of the Dharmakaya", different pple would have diff understanding of what it means.
Basically I think the View refers to the Ultimate View (some call it View of Emptiness, some call it Primordial Wisdom, others call it something else...). I think Padmasambhava is reminding us not to get lost in conduct, thinking that there is "something truly virtuous" to adopt and "something truly nonvirtuous" to abandon in our conduct/actions. This means, while we are adopting virtues and abandoning nonvirtuous we should bear the View of Emptiness in mind, that NO truly existing person is performing any truly existing action towards any truly existing party.
However, having embraced this View of Emptiness, as what Longchen said, we should not think that we don't need to care about performing virtuous or nonvirtuous actions, because for us the unenlightened beings, we're still bound by karma. So though aware of the "lack of an inherent truly existing nature" of virtues and nonvirtues, we should still try to adopt virtuous behaviour and abandon nonvirtuous behaviour.
Thanks for all the sharing Longchen, Sinwei and Eternal Now. I found it kinda surprising and very interesting that diff pple have diff interpretations. I believe such sharings can help all of us sharpen our understanding of the Dharma and motivate one another to apply and actualize them. -
Hi Wanderer, you did mention some of your views regarding to the subject yesterday night in IRC so I remembered Great explanation btw... hope to see more sharings and discussions
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As a way to conclude this discussion and as an offering to all who participated by discussing or reading the thread, I've another nice quote for all of you!
"Once you have the View, although the delusory perceptions of samsara may arise in your mind, you will be like the sky; when a rainbow appears in front of it, it's not particularly flattered, and when the clouds appear it's not particularly disappointed either.
There is a deep sense of contentment. You chuckle from inside as you see the facade of samsara and nirvana; the View will keep you constantly amused, with a little inner smile bubbling away all the time."
~ DILGO KHYENTSE RINPOCHE ~ -
Thanks.. I'll post this in the 'daily buddhist verses' threadOriginally posted by _wanderer_:As a way to conclude this discussion and as an offering to all who participated by discussing or reading the thread, I've another nice quote for all of you!
"Once you have the View, although the delusory perceptions of samsara may arise in your mind, you will be like the sky; when a rainbow appears in front of it, it's not particularly flattered, and when the clouds appear it's not particularly disappointed either.
There is a deep sense of contentment. You chuckle from inside as you see the facade of samsara and nirvana; the View will keep you constantly amused, with a little inner smile bubbling away all the time."
~ DILGO KHYENTSE RINPOCHE ~