What will happen to people who don't believe in Buddhism?
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Originally posted by casino_king:
Why?
Let's say all the scientist become Buddhists. That will be the biggest disaster known to Human kind, no? They will spend time chasing after "unfalsifiable" statements and no new knowledge and no new technology and no new medical discovery and no new .... will come along.
Science is science, other than science, there is Arts, Language, Math, Philosophy, etc, so many other aspects of knowledge. What Buddha taught is [b]not about Science & Technology, not about Arts, not about Language, but does that mean we cannot practise Arts, Language, etc?
By all means, Buddhists should seek improvement in science and technology.Buddhists have been given 2549 years to come up with something tangible. Christians 2000 years. Nothing to show for it. It is time to move on or to undertsand just what exactly is Buddhism and Christianity; the illusions, delusions and speculations as well as the essence and teaching that can be beneficial to mankind.
Tangible = ?
What do we need to prove? Since Buddhism isnt about believing that God will save us to Heaven, what do we need to prove at all?
By practising dharma, people attain bliss, liberation, enlightenment. Through meditation, they can enter samadhi and become absorbed into meditative bliss. This kind of things dont need proof, I dont need to talk too much, bcos the most important is you start practising yourself. -
BTW you did not answer my question whether or not Buddha taught that one can levitate after practising meditation.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Why?
Science is science, other than science, there is Arts, Language, Math, Philosophy, etc, so many other aspects of knowledge. What Buddha taught is [b]not about Science & Technology, not about Arts, not about Language, but does that mean we cannot practise Arts, Language, etc?
By all means, Buddhists should seek improvement in science and technology. -
I dont think anyone asked the same question to him, or at least I have not read such a question being answered by Buddha before.Originally posted by casino_king:BTW you did not answer my question whether or not Buddha taught that one can levitate after practising meditation.
But if you read the article I gave you, about the 6 Supernatural Powers, you should be able to conclude that it is a yes. isnt it? -
You might as well said all scientists become teachers or pastors?Originally posted by casino_king:Let's say all the scientist become Buddhists. That will be the biggest disaster known to Human kind, no? They will spend time chasing after "unfalsifiable" statements and no new knowledge and no new technology and no new medical discovery and no new .... will come along.
Buddhists have been given 2549 years to come up with something tangible. Christians 2000 years. Nothing to show for it. It is time to move on or to undertsand just what exactly is Buddhism and Christianity; the illusions, delusions and speculations as well as the essence and teaching that can be beneficial to mankind.
This is a flawed statement cos you jolly well know it will not happen, its a hypothetical question, so there can be no answer for it.
Secondly, you are asking the ancient chicken or egg question. The opinions you expressed here are your own lopsided opinions, which you are entitled for, but the questions you asked were not worth providing answers for.
Basically you are expressing your own opinions, not asking or soliciting for questions. -
I find it so dangerous when people start attributing things to Buddha when he did not say it specifically and directly. Interpretation can lead to confusion. Everyone have a field day interpreting and hold on to their interpretations as the correct one.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I dont think anyone asked the same question to him, or at least I have not read such a question being answered by Buddha before.
But if you read the article I gave you, about the 6 Supernatural Powers, you should be able to conclude that it is a yes. isnt it?
I now wonder what Buddha actually said and what was interpreted and added and subtracted and used for personal gains and glory. -
Well, I can answer that question to you.Originally posted by casino_king:BTW you did not answer my question whether or not Buddha taught that one can levitate after practising meditation.
Buddha did not teach his disciples, when meditating, they can levitate.
Meditation is to calm and focus your mind on one single pointedness, abeit many different kinds of meditation methods.
The question you asked is downright contemptible or despicable.
Go read further b4 you asked a wild question like this. Like I said b4, you are expressing your own opinions, not asking questions. The question of why are you doing is only known to yourself.
The questions you asked, doesnt worth even reading, much less responding. -
He did say yes, but not in direct answering to that particular question. I shall now quote what Buddha said to support what I claimed. By practising meditation, a person can develope what is required for 'the power of transformation'.Originally posted by casino_king:I find it so dangerous when people start attributing things to Buddha when he did not say it specifically and directly. Interpretation can lead to confusion. Everyone have a field day interpreting and hold on to their interpretations as the correct one.
I now wonder what Buddha actually said and what was interpreted and added and subtracted and used for personal gains and glory.
In fact, a truly skilled Yogi doesnt even need to sit in meditation for a long time to display such miracles. Although it is through meditative practises that he has developed the Samadhi powers. But he can perform miracles anywhere he like to.
The following is the FIRST of the SIX powers:
1. IDDHIVIDHA - THE POWER OF TRANSFORMATION.
The Buddha said "If a monk should frame a wish as follows: "Let me exercise the various magical powers, let me being one become multiform., let me being multiform become one, let me become visible, become invisible, go without hindrance through walls, ramparts or mountains as if through air, let me rise and sink in the ground as if in the water, let me walk on the water as if on unyielding ground, let me travel cross-legged through the air liked a winged bird, let me touch and feel with my hand the moon and the sun mighty and powerful though they are, and let me go without my body even up to the Brahma world," then must he be perfect in the precepts (Sila), bring his thoughts to a state of quiescence (Samadhi), practice diligently the trances (Jhana), attain to insight (Panna) and be frequenter to lonely places." -
One should concentrate on the core teachings of the Buddha, like the 4 Noble Truths, Noble Eightfold Paths, 5 Precepts, Law of karma, impermanency, rebirth, dependent origination, Abidhamma and meditational practises, loving kindness, compassion, equanimity to all sentient beings, even to animals.Originally posted by casino_king:I find it so dangerous when people start attributing things to Buddha when he did not say it specifically and directly. Interpretation can lead to confusion. Everyone have a field day interpreting and hold on to their interpretations as the correct one.
I now wonder what Buddha actually said and what was interpreted and added and subtracted and used for personal gains and glory. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Samadhi is only one of the conditions isn't it? Furthermore it seems more figurative than actual, becuase in addition to "travel cross-legged through the air" he said touch the sun with one's hand. That as we all know is an impossibility because your body will burn up. So it would seem that if Budhha is not talking figuratively, then the fantastic abilities cannot be of the body but of the spirit. But you said somewhere that Buddhists do not believe in spirits?
He did say yes, but not in direct answering to that particular question. I shall now quote what Buddha said to support what I claimed. By practising meditation, a person can develope what is required for 'the power of transformation'.
The following is the FIRST of the SIX powers:
1. IDDHIVIDHA - THE POWER OF TRANSFORMATION.
The Buddha said "If a monk should frame a wish as follows: "Let me exercise the various magical powers, let me being one become multiform., let me being multiform become one, let me become visible, become invisible, go without hindrance through walls, ramparts or mountains as if through air, [b]let me rise and sink in the ground as if in the water, let me walk on the water as if on unyielding ground, let me travel cross-legged through the air liked a winged bird, let me touch and feel with my hand the moon and the sun mighty and powerful though they are, and let me go without my body even up to the Brahma world," then must he be perfect in the precepts (Sila), bring his thoughts to a state of quiescence (Samadhi), practice diligently the trances (Jhana), attain to insight (Panna) and be frequenter to lonely places."[/b] -
Yes your consciousness can reach there without your body.Originally posted by casino_king:Samadhi is only one of the conditions isn't it? Furthermore it seems more figurative than actual, becuase in addition to "travel cross-legged through the air" he said touch the sun with one's hand. That as we all know is an impossibility because your body will burn up. So it would seem that if Budhha is not talking figuratively, then the fantastic abilities cannot be of the body but of the spirit. But you said somewhere that Buddhists do not believe in spirits?
But things like levitating, walking on water, can be done in physical body. Although of cos similar things can be done 'out of body' - lots of out of body, NDE, astral projection experiences are experienced.
Meditation can develope samadhi and panna. Precepts simply means you are not evil and immoral.
BTW I find it very pointless to discuss about such things in a Buddhist forum.
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I am trying to get at the root of Buddhism and if you don't mind, this is like the most effective way. There is no time constraint and there are no transportation problems.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes your consciousness can reach there without your body.
But things like levitating, walking on water, can be done in physical body. Although of cos similar things can be done 'out of body' - lots of out of body, NDE, astral projection experiences are experienced.
Meditation can develope samadhi and panna. Precepts simply means you are not evil and immoral.
BTW I find it very pointless to discuss about such things in a Buddhist forum.
"But things like levitating, walking on water, can be done in physical body."
And where did Buddha say that? -
Venerable Pindola Bharadvaja is one of the Buddha's sixteen disciples named in The Amitabha Sutra. Under the Buddha's auspices he attained the holy fruit of Arhat. Once when in a jubilant mood, he said to the faithful, "Do you think flying in the sky is magical? I will show you some spectacular acts."
He then jumped up into the sky, FLEW all around and performed many miraculous acts. The faithful were all impressed and praised him without ceasing. The Buddha was very displeased upon learning of this incident. He asked the Venerable to come forth and admonished him, "My teaching uses morality to change others and compassion to save living beings. It does not use magic to impress and confuse people. You have MISUSED magic today. As punishment you to stay in this world to work for more merits and to repent for this misbehavior." The Venerable did not in his lifetime enter Nirvana. (source)
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085 - The Flying Buddha
On the fifth year of his Enlightenment, when the Buddha was dwelling in Kutagarasala in Vaishali, he saw his father on the death-bed by his divine eyes. He felt the urgency of preaching his doctrine to his father for his spiritual evolution, as he was just about to attain the arahatahood. Furthermore, a war had broken out between the Sakiyans of Kapilavatthu and the Koliyans of Kolanagara (also called Vyaghapajja) over the water-dispute of the Rohini river – which demarcated the territories of the two kingdoms. As the Khattiyas of the two neighbouring kingdoms earlier enjoyed pleasant relationship; and intermarried and dined with each other, the Buddha wanted to protect the two countries as well.
The Buddha therefore, flew to Kapilavatthu to visit his father, and preached him to become an arahanta. Soon, Suddhodana became an arahanta and died.
After the death of Suddhodana, he became the peace mediator for the Sakiyans and the Koliyans. He thus averted the bloody feud between the two neighbouring tribes. Both the tribes then encouraged their men to join the Sangha as a token of gratitude for his mediation; and each extended hospitality by inviting him as its guest. The Buddha accepted both the invitations and dwelt alternately in Kapilavatthu and Koliyanagara. -
Ajahn Maha Boowa (said to be a living arahant) relates this story, in his biography of Ajahn Mun:
"Acariya Mun described his teacher as someone with a smooth, serene temperament who inspired deep devotion. A rather strange feature of Acariya SaoÂ’s practice was his tendency to levitate while in samadhi, his body hovering quite noticeably above the floor. At first, doubtful that his body was indeed floating, he opened his eyes to see for himself. As soon as his eyes opened, concern about the condition of his body caused his citta to withdraw from samadhi. He promptly fell back to the floor, landing hard on his buttocks which was sore and bruised for many days. In truth, his body did float about three feet above the floor. But by opening his eyes to check, he lost the mindfulness needed to maintain his citta in samadhi. Withdrawing suddenly from samadhi caused him to come crashing to the floor, like any other object dropped from a height. Practicing samadhi later and feeling his body levitate again, he kept mindfulness firmly focused within that state of samadhi, and then, carefully opened his eyes to look at himself. It was obvious to him then that he did levitate. This time, however, he didnÂ’t fall back to the floor, for mindfulness was present to maintain total concentration.
"This experience taught Acariya Sao a valuable lesson about himself. Yet being an exceptionally careful, meticulous person, he wasn’t entirely convinced. So he took a small object, inserted it into the underside of the thatched roof in his hut, and continued to meditate. When he felt his body beginning to float again, he firmly focused his citta in samadhi, and he was able to float upward until he reached that small object in the thatch. Drawing level with it, he slowly reached out and very mindfully took it in his hand so that he could bring it back down by means of samadhi. This meant that once he had it in his grasp, he gradually withdrew from samadhi to the point where his body could slowly, and safely, descend to the floor – a point still short of complete withdrawal from samadhi. Experimenting like this, he became convinced of his ability to levitate, though this did not occur every time he entered samadhi. -
The Buddha said its not necessary to have psychic powers.
What is important is your conduct, mental development and then wisdom.
Wisdom is seeing things as they really are, the end of suffering is still the main aim for Buddhist to strive for. -
Well it is good that you would like to find out.Originally posted by casino_king:I am trying to get at the root of Buddhism and if you don't mind, this is like the most effective way. There is no time constraint and there are no transportation problems.
But I say - wrong source. There is a limit to what I know. I am new to Buddhism myself, really.
I dont think anyone in our forum is knowledgeable and experienced enough to be a Dharma Teacher, or at least the ones who is free enough to keep replying to you.
There is no lack of Buddhist materials, you should really start from reading up on a good buddhist book first. If you have doubts find a good teacher who can really answer you.
I shall stop discussing things about supernatural because it isnt in interest of DHARMA practise. -
I received this in e-mail today:
Friends:
How to overcome Confusing Doubt and Skeptical Mistrust?
What to do if doubt leading to confusion and inability to discriminate recurs?
Undertaking these 5 simple actions gains assured certainty over time:
1: The praxis of living under a Teacher...
2: The effort of learning the True Dhamma...
3: The work of examining the meaning of the Dhamma...
4: The habit of listening to/reading the Dhamma repeatedly...
5: The quality of inquiring into the Cause & Non-Cause of things...
Through these 5 behaviours is both Ignorance, Skeptical Doubt, Uncertainty, and
bewildered Confusion gradually eradicated depending on the invested effort ...
- Bhikkhu Samahita -
Hi CASINO,
I think u miss the entire pt here.The purpose of practising meditation is not abt whether one can levitate .So what is meditation?
Meditation is a conscious effort to change how the mind works. The Pali word for meditation is 'bhavana' which means 'to make grow' or 'to develop'.
No matter how much we may wish to be good, if we cannot change the desires that make us act the way we do, change will be difficult. For example, a person may realise that he is impatient with his wife and he may promise himself, "From now on I am not going to be so impatient" But an hour later he may be shouting at his wife simply because, not being aware of himself, impatience has arisen without him knowing it. Meditation helps to develop the awareness and the energy needed to transform ingrained mental habit patterns.
The Buddha taught many different types of meditation, each designed to overcome a particular problem or to develop a particular psychological state. But the two most common and useful types of meditation are Mindfulness of Breathing (anapana sati) and Loving-kindness Meditation (metta bhavana).
Meditation is now accepted as having a highly therapeutic effect upon the mind and is used by many professional mental health workers to help induce relaxation, overcome phobias and bring about self-awareness. The Buddha's insights into the human mind are helping people as much today as they did in ancient times
"Prayers take the character of private communications, selfish bargaining with God. It seeks for objects of earthly ambitions and inflames the sense of self. Meditation on the other hand is self-change."
— Sri Radhakrishnan
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Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
Well said, thats not the point. Thats besides the point.
Hi CASINO,
I think u miss the entire pt here.The purpose of practising meditation is not abt whether one can levitate .So what is [b]meditation?
Meditation is a conscious effort to change how the mind works. The Pali word for meditation is 'bhavana' which means 'to make grow' or 'to develop'.
No matter how much we may wish to be good, if we cannot change the desires that make us act the way we do, change will be difficult. For example, a person may realise that he is impatient with his wife and he may promise himself, "From now on I am not going to be so impatient" But an hour later he may be shouting at his wife simply because, not being aware of himself, impatience has arisen without him knowing it. Meditation helps to develop the awareness and the energy needed to transform ingrained mental habit patterns.
The Buddha taught many different types of meditation, each designed to overcome a particular problem or to develop a particular psychological state. But the two most common and useful types of meditation are Mindfulness of Breathing (anapana sati) and Loving-kindness Meditation (metta bhavana).
Meditation is now accepted as having a highly therapeutic effect upon the mind and is used by many professional mental health workers to help induce relaxation, overcome phobias and bring about self-awareness. The Buddha's insights into the human mind are helping people as much today as they did in ancient times
"Prayers take the character of private communications, selfish bargaining with God. It seeks for objects of earthly ambitions and inflames the sense of self. Meditation on the other hand is self-change."
— Sri Radhakrishnan
[/b]
The main contention is it calms your mind down, focuses on one pointedness and then use concentration for focusing, which in turn lead to insight.
You miss the big picture, think from the helicopter view.
Try to be open minded, dun be closed minded and opinionated.
Buddha spoke of the free spirit of enquiry. -
1st you have to look at two different things without discriminations without favour, then will you be able to find the truth.Originally posted by casino_king:It is time to move on or to undertsand just what exactly is Buddhism and Christianity; the illusions, delusions and speculations as well as the essence and teaching that can be beneficial to mankind. -
Buddha would think that one is silly if one can just use a penny to ask the boat people to bring one across the river than use the power to walk across.
Kevatta (Kevaddha) Sutta
To Kevatta
Translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/digha/dn-11-tb0.htmlThe Miracle of Psychic Power
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"And what is the miracle of psychic power? There is the case where a monk wields manifold psychic powers. Having been one he becomes many; having been many he becomes one. He appears. He vanishes. He goes unimpeded through walls, ramparts, and mountains as if through space. He dives in and out of the earth as if it were water. He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting cross-legged he flies through the air like a winged bird. With his hand he touches and strokes even the sun and moon, so mighty and powerful. He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds.
"Then someone who has faith and conviction in him sees him wielding manifold psychic powers... exercising influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds. He reports this to someone who has no faith and no conviction, telling him, 'Isn't it awesome. Isn't it astounding, how great the power, how great the prowess of this contemplative. Just now I saw him wielding manifold psychic powers... exercising influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds.'
"Then the person without faith, without conviction, would say to the person with faith and with conviction: 'Sir, there is a charm called the Gandhari charm by which the monk wielded manifold psychic powers... exercising influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds.' What do you think, Kevatta — isn't that what the man without faith, without conviction, would say to the man with faith and with conviction?"
"Yes, lord, that's just what he would say."
"Seeing this drawback to the miracle of psychic power, Kevatta, I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted with the miracle of psychic power.
Miraculous Power
If a wicked man can become a pure religious man, this according to Buddhism, is a practical miracle.
http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhism/dhammananda/31.htm
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