Evidence is all found in your cultivation. One can witness karma, reincarnation, and nirvana in this very lifetime if one practises. And countless people have already done that.Originally posted by casino_king:Hi, sorry I took so long to come back.
OK if you say that the spirit world is not the focus, fair and good.
What about the motivation of Buddhists? Karma; reincarnation and nirvada?
Doing good and being a good person who on principle does not harm others is in itself a noble aim in life.
But when you introduce the concepts of Karma and reincarnation and nirvada into the mix, then one would be puzzled since there is no evidence of merit for Karma, reincarnation and nirvada?
LIBERATE to you and self delusion to another person? How do you think all the non Buddhists cope with sufferings and vexations?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Evidence is all found in your cultivation. One can witness karma, reincarnation, and nirvana in this very lifetime if one practises. And countless people have already done that.
Being a good person and avoiding evil is a good principle. But this principle isnt enough to LIBERATE someone from sufferings and vexations, whether mental, emotional, physical, etc. It is therefore by practising the dharma, that we can achieve liberation. Small liberations a first, then later the great liberation.
Originally posted by casino_king:Buddhism is not baseless concept or even a concept but it is the most practical teaching in life. It looks like you do not even know Buddhism. Please read more.
LIBERATE to you and self delusion to another person? How do you think all the non Buddhists cope with sufferings and vexations?
People face reality and cope with life using logical means. They make plans and strategise how best to cope with and in the future avoid or reduce or accept the sufferings and vexations. They do not do it by believing in baseless concepts?
Christians cope by believing in a personal God and that it is God's will.Buddhism is none about magic and superstitions. It is also not a religion in the sense that we do not worship a Creator, supreme beings, or gods, etc. We do not emphasize nor talk about the supernatural. But it is also true that the mind's power is much more than most people understand, and things lilke 'psychic abilities' can be developed through practise. But again, Buddhist teachers and Buddha himself would advise you not to seek these things - Wisdom and Liberation is much more crucial.
I think the best is still to use logic and reality based solutions rather than coping using magic and superstitions.
There might be uneducated and ignorant people who have no other means other than to believe in magic and superstitions but the fact that you are participating in a forum tells us that you are educated and logical. Why do you cling on to religious beliefs, superstitions and magic?
Certainly Buddhists believe in Karma and reincarnation? Are there new age Buddhists who don't?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Buddhism is none about magic and superstitions. It is also not a religion in the sense that we do not worship a Creator, supreme beings, or gods, etc. We do not emphasize nor talk about the supernatural. But it is also true that the mind's power is much more than most people understand, and things lilke 'psychic abilities' can be developed through practise. But again, Buddhist teachers and Buddha himself would advise you not to seek these things - Wisdom and Liberation is much more crucial.
Not only Buddhists believe in karma and reincarnation, many people from various religions and non-religious people have come to believe in it.Originally posted by casino_king:Certainly Buddhists believe in Karma and reincarnation? Are there new age Buddhists who don't?
OK let me give you one concrete example. The last time I posted here there was one post that said that I will have Bad Karma for criticising Buddhism. Don't you think that that is simply superstition and voodoo?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Not only Buddhists believe in karma and reincarnation, many people from various religions and non-religious people have come to believe in it.
Obviously Karma and Reincarnation is not about magic. Magic: 1. The art that purports to control or forecast natural events, effects, or forces by invoking the supernatural.
2.
1. The practice of using charms, spells, or rituals to attempt to produce supernatural effects or control events in nature.
2. The charms, spells, and rituals so used.
3. The exercise of sleight of hand or conjuring for entertainment.
4. A mysterious quality of enchantment: “For me the names of those men breathed the magic of the past” (Max Beerbohm).
And karma and reincarnation isnt about superstition either, it has been realised, experienced, by mystics and contemplatives from all places.
What is your definition of superstition? Perhaps we have different understanding. My definition is, believing in fate, that you can get things without hard work by praying to some gods, etc etc. Belief in Karma is that every cause has a consequence, nobody rules your life and nothing is fated.
Well depends on your criticising. My Buddhist master used to be a Christian pastor and became a Buddhist monk precisely BECAUSE of slandering and criticising the dharma, out of ignorance. Of course doesnt mean everyone who slander the dharma will become buddhists, this is not what I meant, but that Karma can be more complicated than what we think.Originally posted by casino_king:OK let me give you one concrete example. The last time I posted here there was one post that said that I will have Bad Karma for criticising Buddhism. Don't you think that that is simply superstition and voodoo?
If you tell me that if I defame the wrong people I will be hauled to court, well that is reality. If you tell me that I will have some bad stuff happen to me or the way you put it, something will happen (since Karma is complicated,) then that is baseless and not rooted in reality right? Something not rooted in reality is superstition right?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Well depends on your criticising. My Buddhist master used to be a Christian pastor and became a Buddhist monk precisely BECAUSE of slandering and criticising the dharma, out of ignorance. Of course doesnt mean everyone who slander the dharma will become buddhists, this is not what I meant, but that Karma can be more complicated than what we think.
But of course if you have very evil intentions and tries to do something foolish yes, there is unwholesome karma involved. Karma is intentional actions, cause and effect. Karma has Mind Karma, Speech Karma, Action Karma. If you keep slandering people with bad intentions, you will commit Speech Karma too.
at the receiving end it sure sound like voodoo to me. "Stop criticising Buddhism or else..."Originally posted by An Eternal Now:And vodoo means I am using certain methods to try to intervene certain things, I used spells and charms to curse you etc, obviously, this is not what Karma is about. Karma is seen as a natural law. I mean how can I use voodoo and charms to intervene your karma? its not possible.
Yes. Karma is more than just going to court. Going to court is part of his karmic consequence, but bcos we believe in reincarnation, we know that karma continues to the next lifetime.Originally posted by casino_king:If you tell me that if I defame the wrong people I will be hauled to court, well that is reality. If you tell me that I will have some bad stuff happen to me or the way you put it, something will happen (since Karma is complicated,) then that is baseless and not rooted in reality right? Something not rooted in reality is superstition right?
He can only warn. He cannot curse you into committing bad karma. There is nothing supernatural involved.Originally posted by casino_king:at the receiving end it sure sound like voodoo to me. "Stop criticising Buddhism or else..."
In the last 5 years, we have entered the third era, when space satellites, lasers, gravity wave detectors, and other technologies are revolutionizing our view of the cosmos. They have given us even more startling insights into our place in the universe, but also forcing us to confront its birth and final death, and even the possible existence of parallel universes, in a "multiverse" of universes.http://www.mkaku.org/
This is what I mean. There is no evidence of past and future lives but you make decisions based on the beliefs anyway. Why not just make your decisions based on reality? Once you start making decisions based not on logic and reality, then you go off tangent without even knowing it.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes. Karma is more than just going to court. Going to court is part of his karmic consequence, but bcos we believe in reincarnation, we know that karma continues to the next lifetime.
Like I said many times, if what you say is evident, then there will be much evidence for it and there is no need to argue about it. Nobody educated and in their right mind will argue that the sun revolves around the earth and it is quite pointless to pray to the moon.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Karma and karmic seed is in fact a form of consciousness (known as 8th consciousness, alaya consciousness). But it remains potential only until the time of ripening has come. At death, the karmic seeds/consciousness will bring you into the cycle of rebirth. If you have seeds of hatred you may be pulled into Asura realm because your consciousness resonates with that particular realm. The same goes to all other realms.
Go look at the various Near Death Experiences and you will understand what I meant.
yes cause and effect but not cause and effect that extended from past lives into future lives. There are random occurances that happen and there is no need to attribute it to past lives and previous goodness. Just because somebody wins TOTO does not in anyway reflect on what he has done in his past lives... there is simply no evidence for that and so we discard the concept. Neither will I make decisions in life based on how it will affect my future lives.Originally posted by paperflower:casino king,
buddhism is neither superstitions, magic, voodoo nor a religion.
its up to you to believe in any karmic consequences good or bad. even if you are going through, you might or might not accept it. no one forcing u to accept or believe. your life is what u will it, that's law of nature - karma.
well having much ego & pride & stubborness will only result in more cloudy deluded ignorance. that's what you are as your life is what how u will it now. that's yr karma - cause & effect, u see it?
If I put a video camera and record down what I am doing, there is evidence. As for past and future lives, there is no evidence but you still believe.Originally posted by paperflower:casino king,
what's 5min or 1min ago is also past. same goes to past life (Can u remember what u did when 1year old?)
winning toto is buying (cause) win or lose (effect) resulting in consequences.
gambling has nothing to do with buddhism.
things happens to some just as that. nothing superstitious about it. viewing wisely sanely is reality.
Beliefs that are contrary to the law of kammahttp://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9280/kamma6.htm
There are three philosophies which are considered by Buddhism to be wrong view and which must be carefully distinguished from the teaching of kamma:
1. Pubbekatahetuvada: The belief that all happiness and suffering arise from previous kamma (Past-action determinism).
2. Issaranimmanahetuvada: The belief that all happiness and suffering are caused by the directives of a Supreme Being (Theistic determinism).
3. Ahetu-apaccayavada: The belief that all happiness and suffering are random, having no cause (Indeterminism or Accidentalism).
Concerning this, we have the Buddha's words:
"Bhikkhus, these three sects, on being questioned by the wise, fall back on tradition and stand fast on inaction. They are:
1. The group of ascetics or Brahmins which teaches and is of the view that all happiness, suffering and neutral feeling are entirely a result of kamma done in a previous time.
2. The group of ascetics and Brahmins which teaches and is of the view that all happiness, suffering and neutral feeling are entirely a result of the will of a Supreme Being.
3. The group of ascetics and Brahmins which teaches and is of the view that all happiness, suffering and neutral feeling are entirely without cause.
"Bhikkhus, of those three groups of ascetics and Brahmins, I approach the first group and ask, 'I hear that you uphold this teaching and view ... Is that so?' If those ascetics and Brahmins, on being thus questioned by me, answer that it is so, then I say to them, 'If that is so, then you have killed living beings as a result of kamma committed in a previous time, have stolen as a result of kamma done at a previous time, have engaged in sexual misconduct ... have uttered false speech ... have held wrong view as a result of kamma done in a previous time.'
"Bhikkhus, adhering to previously done kamma as the essence, there are neither motivation nor effort with what should be done and what should not be done ... Not upholding ardently what should be done, nor abandoning what should be abandoned, those ascetics and Brahmins are as if deluded, lacking a control, incapable of having any true teaching. This is our legitimate refutation of the first group of ascetics and Brahmins holding these views.
"Bhikkhus, of those three groups of ascetics and Brahmins, I approach the second group ... and say to them, 'If that is so, then you have killed living beings because of the directives of a Supreme Being ... stolen the goods of others ... engaged in sexual misconduct ... uttered false speech ... have held wrong view because of the directives of a Supreme Being.'
"Bhikkhus, adhering to the will of a Supreme Being as the essence, there are neither motivation nor effort with what should be done and what should not be done ...
"Bhikkhus, of those groups of ascetics and Brahmins, I approach the third ... and say to them, 'If that is so, then you have killed living beings for no reason whatsoever ... stolen the goods of others ... engaged in sexual misconduct ... uttered false speech ... have held wrong view for no reason whatsoever.'
"Bhikkhus, adhering to accidentalism as being the essence, there are neither motivation nor effort with what should be done and what should not be done ..."[42]
Where is the evidence that there is a Law according to Karma? Who makes the decision as to what "punishment" is fair? Who is to judge that my actions deserves punishment or reward? What if I did something and I did not know that my action caused somebody harm but at the same time it did somebody else good.Originally posted by sinweiy:http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Academy/9280/kamma6.htm
actual karma is not mere action. it's more mental form of action. karma is quite like our current law. if one kill someone or steal from someone, one have to 'pay back'. This law and law of karma protect each individual from another person. the law might not be fair, but not the law of karma.
ps: fyi, there are many Buddhists that are phd level of education.
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Nobody is to judge your action, because karma is not controlled by a supreme being but simply by your intentional actions that gets stored into your 8th consciousness. Each cause will result in an effect.Originally posted by casino_king:Where is the evidence that there is a Law according to Karma? Who makes the decision as to what "punishment" is fair? Who is to judge that my actions deserves punishment or reward? What if I did something and I did not know that my action caused somebody harm but at the same time it did somebody else good.
Well then do I get punished or rewarded for the same action? Who decides? When? This life? Next life? One's children? One's descendents?
It is better to stick with reality than to speculate.
there are many ways of using one's wisdom to view at things. (if you ever notice or aware that you even have wisdom or not) evidence can be complex and too profound to be able to perceive and understood. it can appear to you but because of overly ignorant or ego-clouded misconceptions you sometimes pass it or stubbornly unwilling to accept. its all up there in the mind, the truth is inside.Originally posted by casino_king:If I put a video camera and record down what I am doing, there is evidence. As for past and future lives, there is no evidence but you still believe.
You see, when I studied gambling and gamblers, I realise that gambling and religion are 2 sides of the same coin.
You should listen to the way gamblers talk. They are so certain about certain things even though there is simply no evidence for it. You try to tell them about probabilities and the mathematical certainty of losing to the casino but do they listen? No, they trust their own beliefs. Sounds familiar?