Cold Morgue = Ice Hell
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My Taiwanese dharma teacher warned that after we died ppl should try to lengthen the time/delay as much as possible before the corpse is sent into the cold/frozen morgue, reason is because the mental-consciousness is the last to leave the body even though sense organs are failing. As such the person will be suffering like as if he is in the Ice Hell as mentioned in the Ksitigarbha Sutra. He said just imagine being naked in a frozen room for 10 minutes. You cannot take it already. Much less hours or days... He mentioned that the consciousness may not leave for up to a few days.. I can't remember how long.
Just wondering if Singapore practices sending people to frozen morgues or something? -
Oh and... very importantly - we must start practising now so that when we die, we will not be attached to worldly things... if we are attached, we cannot leave our body easily, if we are detached, we will be reborned in a very short matter of time.
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ya, i heard before in Mahayana teachings.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:My Taiwanese dharma teacher warned that after we died ppl should try to lengthen the time/delay as much as possible before the corpse is sent into the cold/frozen morgue, reason is because the mental-consciousness is the last to leave the body even though sense organs are failing. As such the person will be suffering like as if he is in the Ice Hell as mentioned in the Ksitigarbha Sutra. He said just imagine being naked in a frozen room for 10 minutes. You cannot take it already. Much less hours or days... He mentioned that the consciousness may not leave for up to a few days.. I can't remember how long.
Just wondering if Singapore practices sending people to frozen morgues or something?
But does the Buddha said that?
Theravadin would dispute that isnt it? -
I am not too sure what the Theravadins say about mind consciousness not leaving the body for a particular time. But it is definitely true for Mahayana and Vajrayana... in fact this is discussed in another topic in our forum on the antarabhava, and interestingly Theravadin great venerables like Ajahn Brahmavamso and Ajahn Chah themselves believe in the antarabhava because of their own experience in dealing with the dead.Originally posted by marcteng:ya, i heard before in Mahayana teachings.
But does the Buddha said that?
Theravadin would dispute that isnt it?
Antarabhava is also supported in Pali suttas although rejected by the Abhidhamma, but the Abhidhamma is only a latter commentary and not directly spoken by the Buddha himself.
My Taiwanese dharma teacher have also spoken from his own experience of the bardo stages. He himself have died and revived before... -
to be precise, it's the 8th consciousness that leave last. 8th consciousness is first to come into life..and last to go.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:reason is because the mental-consciousness is the last to leave the body even though sense organs are failing.
t'is also why i opted out of the organ transplant. imagine when u die in the hospital, immediately they bring the dead body to do operation. those who do not opted out will be automatically opted in.
i know it's uncompassionate, but my MCK said better don't if you are not a stream-entry yet.
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The Buddha didnt say anything abt it?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I am not too sure what the Theravadins say about mind consciousness not leaving the body for a particular time. But it is definitely true for Mahayana and Vajrayana... in fact this is discussed in another topic in our forum on the antarabhava, and interestingly Theravadin great venerables like Ajahn Brahmavamso and Ajahn Chah themselves believe in the antarabhava because of their own experience in dealing with the dead.
Antarabhava is also supported in Pali suttas although rejected by the Abhidhamma, but the Abhidhamma is only a latter commentary and not directly spoken by the Buddha himself.
My Taiwanese dharma teacher have also spoken from his own experience of the bardo stages. He himself have died and revived before... -
Yes, he did say. You can read the article that my master wrote... bascially what he said was also what the Buddha have said.Originally posted by marcteng:The Buddha didnt say anything abt it? -
My master actually did not really stop people from donating organs, saying that Bodhisattvas would donate their own organs/blood (it is mentioned quite often in sutras) and that is a very high bodhisattva practise... and that Amitabha wld have delivered the person even before the 'operation' seeing his great compassion. But I still have my doubts whether to donate or not.. my mom did not donate...Originally posted by sinweiy:to be precise, it's the 8th consciousness that leave last. 8th consciousness is first to come into life..and last to go.
t'is also why i opted out of the organ transplant. imagine when u die in the hospital, immediately they bring the dead body to do operation. those who do not opted out will be automatically opted in.
i know it's uncompassionate, but my MCK said better don't if you are not a stream-entry yet.
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BTW, if not wrong, at a certain age you will receive a letter on whether you want to donate the organ... if not wrong my sister received before. Thats what my mom told me... I haven't receive yet. -
What did Ksitigarbha Sutra say abt this?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:My Taiwanese dharma teacher warned that after we died ppl should try to lengthen the time/delay as much as possible before the corpse is sent into the cold/frozen morgue, reason is because the mental-consciousness is the last to leave the body even though sense organs are failing. As such the person will be suffering like as if he is in the Ice Hell as mentioned in the Ksitigarbha Sutra. He said just imagine being naked in a frozen room for 10 minutes. You cannot take it already. Much less hours or days... He mentioned that the consciousness may not leave for up to a few days.. I can't remember how long.
Just wondering if Singapore practices sending people to frozen morgues or something? -
Ksitigarbha Sutra described many hells, including many freezing hells...Originally posted by marcteng:What did Ksitigarbha Sutra say abt this? -
i happily opted in and my mom called me stupid.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:My master actually did not really stop people from donating organs, saying that Bodhisattvas would donate their own organs/blood (it is mentioned quite often in sutras) and that is a very high bodhisattva practise... and that Amitabha wld have delivered the person even before the 'operation' seeing his great compassion. But I still have my doubts whether to donate or not.. my mom did not donate...
BTW, if not wrong, at a certain age you will receive a letter on whether you want to donate the organ... if not wrong my sister received before. Thats what my mom told me... I haven't receive yet.
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As long as you have the vows and will to help others its okOriginally posted by Ito_^:i happily opted in and my mom called me stupid. 
Giving organs/blood is one of the highest form of giving other than dharma.
If you are not willing... then you will struggle badly.. because you are attached. -
If you wanna be a Buddha, you have to practise the perfections.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:As long as you have the vows and will to help others its ok Giving organs/blood is one of the highest form of giving other than dharma.
If you are not willing... then you will struggle badly.. because you are attached.
you have to give your money, belonging, property, your body and your life.
donating your organs when you die is nothing at all compared to cutting your flesh to hungry hawks to feed them. -
how can your mother say that to you, sigh.Originally posted by Ito_^:i happily opted in and my mom called me stupid.
Then why dun u ask ur mom, how come u so clever give birth to me so stupid lol. -
donate organ/blood when alive is no problem as we are still alive. but when die that time , like ur master mentioned, the consciousness had not left, so if the surgery were to cut the body before it left, unless one immediatly go to west land, it's even more painful than putting into the freezer. and when one's in pain and one generate resentment, one would fall to lower realms.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:My master actually did not really stop people from donating organs, saying that Bodhisattvas would donate their own organs/blood (it is mentioned quite often in sutras) and that is a very high bodhisattva practise... and that Amitabha wld have delivered the person even before the 'operation' seeing his great compassion. But I still have my doubts whether to donate or not.. my mom did not donate...
BTW, if not wrong, at a certain age you will receive a letter on whether you want to donate the organ... if not wrong my sister received before. Thats what my mom told me... I haven't receive yet.
think, it's better to be safe than sorry. for us it's better to come back from west land to help all sentient beings than to help just one person's life from one organ transplant. it just can't be compared.
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care to elaborate on the freezing hells?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Ksitigarbha Sutra described many hells, including many freezing hells... -
Originally posted by marcteng:care to elaborate on the freezing hells?
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Are you absolutely certain that people are automatically opted in? Do you have more information from some websites?Originally posted by sinweiy:to be precise, it's the 8th consciousness that leave last. 8th consciousness is first to come into life..and last to go.
t'is also why i opted out of the organ transplant. imagine when u die in the hospital, immediately they bring the dead body to do operation. those who do not opted out will be automatically opted in.
i know it's uncompassionate, but my MCK said better don't if you are not a stream-entry yet.
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Also... based on what my master said... I think this one has to do with whether the person is a bodhisattva with great vows. If he has great vows then even though he is enduring pain he would have no resentment... the past has been full of such bodhisattva examples. But if we do not have such great vows and have regrets and harbour resentment at death then it will be dangerous.
p.s my master, my taiwanese teacher, and my local dharma teacher are three different persons. My master passed away, my taiwanese teacher comes to Singapore occasionally for dharma transmission and my local dharma teacher is always here in Singapore. -
Originally posted by marcteng:care to elaborate on the freezing hells?
http://www.buddhistinformation.com/ida_b_wells_memorial_sutra_library/sutra_of_bodhisattva_ksitigarbha.htm
Ksitigarbha said, "Sir, some of the different sorts of retribution meted out in the various hells are as follows: In some hells, the tongues of punished beings are plucked out to be plowed under by oxen or cows; in others, the hearts of punished beings are ripped out to be devoured by yakshas; in others, the bodies of punished beings are boiled in huge pots full of sizzling water; in others, punished beings are forced to embrace red-hot, scorching copper pillars; in others, punished beings are chased and caught by bursts of fire; in others, it is always ice cold; in others, there is limitless filthy excretion; in others, darts and pellets are whizzing and shooting about; in others, many fiery spears are continually stabbing out; in others, only the breasts and backs of punished beings are pounded; in others, only their hands and feet are burned; in others, there are iron serpents winding and twisting about punished beings; in others, there are iron hounds chasing them; and in still others, there are iron mules riding them. -
How many levels of hell are there, is it 18 hells and Avici Hell is the most suffering of them all?
How long is one hell day as compared to earth day, like in some heaven, 1 celestial day is equivalent to 100 earth days. -
i opt to donate and even skin too.. i just tout it would be great if i can help any other livings with organs that i do not need. Readin wat u guys wrote about.. hmm...Originally posted by An Eternal Now:My master actually did not really stop people from donating organs, saying that Bodhisattvas would donate their own organs/blood (it is mentioned quite often in sutras) and that is a very high bodhisattva practise... and that Amitabha wld have delivered the person even before the 'operation' seeing his great compassion. But I still have my doubts whether to donate or not.. my mom did not donate...
BTW, if not wrong, at a certain age you will receive a letter on whether you want to donate the organ... if not wrong my sister received before. Thats what my mom told me... I haven't receive yet. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
from what i know, only when u need to opted out, then u send in the form below and they will send u a card. i have posted the same topic before in:
Are you absolutely certain that people are automatically opted in? Do you have more information from some websites?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=6767&st=0Was reinform that the op-out date it still on.
http://www.moh.gov.sg/corp/systems/organ/hota/forms.do
The form is at below site.
Please send the completed forms to the following address:
Officer-in-Charge
Organ Donor Registry
c/o Singapore General Hospital
Singapore 169608
see, most of my seniors (10++ years, who was a 'Dharma protector of SBL', 'Hu Fa') and friends opted out. they don't say their cultivation is very good already. very modest of them. i even opted out for my mom.
i reckon it's hard to say like a gamble thing that out past deptors or mara would choose this specific time to disturb our cultivation and effect us from going to PL per se.
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i reckon there are innumberous, depending on the unwholesome karma. the hells mentioned in Earth Stored Sutra are just a small fractions and just a summary! Like Buddha summarise the countless planes into 6 realms by grouping them up.Originally posted by marcteng:How many levels of hell are there, is it 18 hells and Avici Hell is the most suffering of them all?
How long is one hell day as compared to earth day, like in some heaven, 1 celestial day is equivalent to 100 earth days.
thus i noted, the life span of hell beings are abt 7000-10000 human years, but to them it seems like infinity aeons!
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Venerable Ajahn brahm gave a topic, what happens after death at PKS tonight, very interesting.
I suppose Theravada and Mahayana's teachings on what happens to one when one dies differ.
He said when one is about to die, some few minutes b4 death, or at death, one won't feel pain whatsoever, its a pain free condition.
He also talked abt Near Death Experiences and was documented in the prestigious British Medical Journal, that got people got out of body experiences. When that person was out of body, she was watching the doctors frantically trying to save her life at the operating theatre. When that person does revived, she lived to tell the tale of her out of body experiences.
In a way, he uses science to explain that when one is about to die, like a good few minutes, the body will release morphines like chemical and that no pain will occur. He also said he donated his organ before.