meditating
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wanderer, please explain to me why they are considered silly?
being ignorant is being silly not opening to the path to liberations. right?
being aware in meditation is being silly?
what's indiscrimination, what emphathy, what's compassion, what's selflessness, what's non-dualistic? please explain.
why are there so many high masters haven't achieved enlightenment yet? please explain.
please explain from your observations.
i'd be grateful n appreciate yr sharing of advice n guidance n knowledge without discriminating u from the higher learned teachers.
thanks in advance. -
Hi paperflower,
The sensation of “lightening” is due to the falling away or loosening of the bond that “you are a physical self”. You sank into a state near oblivious as a result of letting go but the mental formation hasn’t subsided (What is crucial is more on these mental formations).
“feel extremely fresh n energetic after that, I look fresh n radiant in mirror too”
This is the result of slowing down your thought process during meditation. Your senses become sharper and more alert as though you are beaming when you are out of meditation.
Do go into the Buddhism aspect of no-self and emptiness and as suggested by some forumers, look for a qualified teacher.
True experience of our Pristine Awareness must come with complete clarity and vividness. There is no vagueness in realization. There is no dropping of senses necessary; rather all senses are experienced in full without a “doer”. When no-self and emptiness is realized, the entire sense of a “doer” and “body” completely dissolve without a trace and boundless freedom becomes a moment to moment experience.
As what Joan Tollifson once asked Toni “if she'd ever had one of those big awakenings where life turns inside out and all identification with the body-mind ceases.
Toni replied, "I can't say I had it," she replied. "It's this moment, right now."
Happy Journey.
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Dear paperflower,
Wah you wrote so many replies I don't know which to reply to.
So forgive me that I won't be able to reply to everything you asked. 
I'm not an accomplished Buddhist teacher/practitioner, so all I can do is to express my own understanding, and sometimes to parrot some of my teachers. It's all in a spirit of discussion and not assuming that I'm more knowledgeable than you. Hope I didn't sound like saying I'm knowledgeable and experienced meditator and so on...that certainly wasn't my intention!! wow u really think i don't need a teacher? wow great foresight and intuition u have over the protocol! amazing....... u could tell.....
I didn't mean to advise you not to seek a teacher. Thanks Eternal Now, yeah I meant to clarify that Buddhist meditation aims not for one to enjoy such special meditative experiences but to use the process to realize the true nature of self and phenomena. And if that's your aim, then it'll be impt to seek guidance from qualified meditation teachers.i dont wanna have so much bubble foams to clear at the base at the end of the day... hehee....
Yeah.. that's what I meant.knowing n attachment is 2 different meaning obviously any1 can tell. without knowing n being aware we wont even know we r attaching unconsciously.
Yes. At the subtler meditative levels, the line (if there is a line) between mere knowing/recognizing and attachment/grasping is very fine.I do admit I hv attachments so does anyone. but here I never forget my lessons nor will I bring them along with me.
Yup, grasping them or rejecting them are all volitional actions and bring about karma and the whole cycle of birth and death again and again (Samsara).
Hmm I can't give you advice on this and I wouldn't want to do so. Pray that you find a qualified master to guide you along this path.wanderer, please explain to me why they are considered silly?
Nope, silly referring to when one revels in these experiences and take them as the goal of meditation. Nothing wrong with these experiences. Only when grasping or rejection occurs.
being ignorant is being silly not opening to the path to liberations. right?
being aware in meditation is being silly?what's indiscrimination, what emphathy, what's compassion, what's selflessness, what's non-dualistic? please explain.
Wow that's a handful. What is it you actually want to know? You have to work on a Sunday and I also have errands to run. haha next time maybe? *grins*why are there so many high masters haven't achieved enlightenment yet? please explain.
Maybe you can ask them. But well, even if they're enlightened, they probably won't tell you they are. I'm not enlightened so I can't judge if these high masters are enlightened yet. But well, some of these teachers do display wisdom and compassion so vast that I do believe that they have certain levels of enlightenment (Bodhisattvas of different bhumi/stages). There have also been meditators who attained Arahanthood.i'd be grateful n appreciate yr sharing of advice n guidance n knowledge without discriminating u from the higher learned teachers.
While I am a student of shallow learning hehe, it is of your own benefit that you are able to regard all beings high and low as your teacher.
All the best dear seeker. and thank you for the discussion. -
thanks thusness.
would u know if I am using or not using buddhist method in my meditation (for a newbie)?
oh yes does anyone come across in any of my posts that I said I had realisations? or did I say I don't need a teacher?
am also looking forward to wanderer's guidance / answers to my raised questions through his/her observations. -
wanderer, thanks for your efforts to reply.
so sorry to trouble u on a sunday. nonetheless I'd be glad to be ready at any time.
I don't see u actually understood some of my questions.
all my questions for you has a meaning and purpose behind. (i don't have to elaborate anymore, u'll understand naturally one day without the need to talk about it again) i could easily flip through the pages if i want to know. don't lose what u have learnt k!
there's definitely no such thing as wisdom-in-a-tablet prescription! its way too conditioned to be being a parrot or you and me and them.
I didn't rush u for the replies. I wasn't even differentiating yr knowledge from others if u read my sentences clearly; not even to anyone here.
surely the meaning of "describing the experience" & "enjoying the experience" is quite distinct right.
either way, many people have various ways of looking at them sometimes they get too carried away with what their minds favour more or how they have been molded conditioned like your mind, my mind, a parrot's mind too....
thanks for sharing! u've been very kind, wise & brave. at least i learnt "something" from you today.
think & filter yr words before u speak - isn't that having right thoughts from right mind.
throw that "tablet-prescription" away, set your cage unlocked & set yourself free, fly find your freedom! u'll make it! and believe me u'll never look at a parrot the same way u used to conditionally looked at. kekeeee
be composed yeah, wanderer.
thank u appreciate!
(edited to organize inputs & correct spelling errors) -
There are many kind of meditation. Any one heard of meditation on the six sense data, meditation on the five sense organs, meditation on the six consciousness and meditation on the seven elements?
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they are not for beginner ,they are too advanced from a Buddhist point of viewOriginally posted by grandeur:There are many kind of meditation. Any one heard of meditation on the six sense data, meditation on the five sense organs, meditation on the six consciousness and meditation on the seven elements?
only a qualified meditation master can teach you those u mentioned -
I would highly recommend Anapanasati meditation (mindfulness of breathing) for a start.
It is the meditation that all Buddhas did under the Bodhi tree to attain enlightenment, it is one of the easiest sitting meditation method.
But even though it may be easy, it is still important to find a teacher. Also from my experience, meditation can produce all kinds of experiences and you may need to clarify with a teacher. It may be easy to grasp on certain experiences.http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Library/Ledi/Anapanasati/anapanasati.html
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WHY MINDFULNESS OF RESPIRATION SHOULD BE PRACTISED
The people of the present day, both lay and monastic, who have encountered the Buddha Sasana, should abhor and fear the state of having no control over their minds and should, as early as possible, adopt and practise one or other of the exercises for mindfulness of the body given in the Mahasatipatthana Sutta of the Dighanikaya (DN 22) so that they may secure firm control of their minds.
In the Kayagatasati Sutta (MN 119) of the last fifty of the Middle-length Sayings, eighteen kinds of exercises for mindfulness of the body are given; namely, mindfulness of respiration (anapana), mindfulness of the postures [of sitting, standing, walking, and lying down] (iriyapatha), clear comprehension of actions (sampajanna), attention to the impurities of the body (patikkula manasikara), analysis of the elements (dhatumanasikara), nine cemetery contemplations (sivathika), and four absorptions.
In the Anapanasati Sutta (MN 118 ), also of the last fifty, it is shown how the work of mindfulness of the body and the four full absorptions of tranquility meditation, insight meditation, development of the path, and realisation of fruition (the last two are known as “knowledge of liberation”) are accomplished by the practice of mindfulness of respiration alone.
It is also the custom for all Buddhas to attain supreme enlightenment through the method of mindfulness of respiration, and having attained Buddhahood, all Buddhas have continued to remain established in mindfulness of respiration without any lapse until they attain Parinibbana.
In the matter of tranquility meditation: of the forty meditation exercises that are prescribed, mindfulness of respiration is the easiest to establish continuously at all times. The Buddha extolled mindfulness of respiration more than he did the other meditation exercises. The commentators also called mindfulness of respiration “the realm of the great” (mahapurisa bhumi). Mindfulness of respiration is not a meditation exercise that is suitable for ordinary persons. It is suited only for persons of great wisdom.
Hence, for the benefit of those wise people who wish to emulate the way of the aforementioned King Pakkusati of Takkasila, who spent the rest of his life alone on the top-most storey of his seven-storeyed palace practicing meditation beginning with mindfulness of the body until he achieved the fourth jhana, and thus wish to strive for spiritual progress including and accompanying advantages that the rare opportunity of an encounter with a Buddha Sasana offers, I will now expound concisely the Anapanasati Sutta as given in the last fifty (MN 118 ).
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MINDFULNESS OF RESPIRATION LEADS TO NIBBANA
“Monks. If mindfulness of respiration is cultivated and made much of, the four foundations of mindfulness are fulfilled and perfected. If the four foundations of mindfulness are cultivated and made much of, the seven factors of enlightenment (bojjhanga) are fulfilled and perfected. If the seven factors of enlightenment are cultivated and made much of, knowledge (vijja) and liberation (vimutti) are fulfilled and perfected.”
Here, knowledge means the four path knowledge, and liberation means the four fruition knowledge. The essential meaning is that if mindfulness of respiration is practiced diligently for days and months, the work of the four foundations of mindfulness, the seven factors of enlightenment and of knowledge and liberation are automatically accomplished. The foundations of mindfulness, the factors of enlightenment, and knowledge and liberation comprise the thirty-seven requisites of enlightenment (bodhipakkhiya dhamma) so the development
of the thirty-seven requisites of enlightenment are automatically fulfilled.
This ends the exposition of the introduction to the Anapanasati Sutta. -
see Middle Length Discourse - Satipattana SuttaOriginally posted by grandeur:There are many kind of meditation. Any one heard of meditation on the six sense data, meditation on the five sense organs, meditation on the six consciousness and meditation on the seven elements? -
In the Buddhist scripture, it did talk about the experience in meditation such as entering Jhana state. Please see the samanna-phala suttaOriginally posted by paperflower:I felt my sense leaving me...
its hard to explain....
I called out to shakyamuni buddha to guide me on the proper path.
I felt a sense of freedom. also see nothing else except brightness of the color of yellow flame. felt my body very light peaceful almost leaving....
felt joyful so free too joyful to be true tat becomes kinda scary.
maybe i'll get used to it?
I tell myself to let go everything .... just give out love n compassion n feel everything around me naturally.
my whole sense just became so light n clear almost losing touch to my self. but i'm too rooted tats y I still can't let go fully....
I believe buddhas will guide me... I must trust them.....
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/sutta/digha/dn-02-tb0.html
May you be well and happy. -
I used to have experiences which bears very close resemblance to what is described as jhanas. But sometimes even when it happens, sometimes the wandering/grasping mind still functions. So it's best to treat these experiences as passing clouds. Dont reproduce it or have a 'goal' in meditation. Contrary meditation should remove your goal. Maintaining awareness is most important.
A student went to his meditation teacher and said, "My meditation is horrible! I feel so distracted, or my legs ache, or I'm constantly falling asleep. It's just horrible!" "It will pass," the teacher said matter-of-factly. A week later, the student came back to his teacher. "My meditation is wonderful! I feel so aware, so peaceful, so alive! It's just wonderful!' "It will pass," the teacher replied matter-of-factly. -
Yes, my teacher said that to cling on to the experience is attachment. furthermore the Buddha had said that this is not the ultimate.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I used to have experiences which bears very close resemblance to what is described as jhanas. But sometimes even when it happens, sometimes the wandering/grasping mind still functions. So it's best to treat these experiences as passing clouds. Dont reproduce it or have a 'goal' in meditation. Contrary meditation should remove your goal. Maintaining awareness is most important.
A student went to his meditation teacher and said, "My meditation is horrible! I feel so distracted, or my legs ache, or I'm constantly falling asleep. It's just horrible!" "It will pass," the teacher said matter-of-factly. A week later, the student came back to his teacher. "My meditation is wonderful! I feel so aware, so peaceful, so alive! It's just wonderful!' "It will pass," the teacher replied matter-of-factly. -
Something to add.
I had not been meditating for some time now.. and yesterday Thusness reminded me that discipline in meditation is necessary... so now I'm determined to practise often. At least 30 minutes a day. Today my meditation has been quite good for a start. I notice after practising for some time the breathing comes to a halt. Then I stopped meditation.
Then the website says When the apparent disapearance of the out and in-breath occurs, people who are inexperienced in meditation are liable to think that the breathing has actually stopped, so they may abandon meditation. Let all be heedful of this fact.
Oh okay.. i'm very inexperienced.
I'm going to ask about this.
Anyway hopefully people who meditate will have discipline to practise regularly. -
All Buddhas extol the virtues and benefits of meditation.
One zen master aptly described the benefits of meditation.
" Even a short meditation can destroy aeons of defilements." -
Buddha once said,
head straight towards enlightenment (annuttara samyaksambodhi),
and nothing else,
but no man has done so,
those who have are already immortal beings,
and left them of society,
praise those immortal saints,
alas, who could see their powers and virtues?
these days who can cultivate to mahasattvahood..? -
Hmm, dun worry. From what you describe, you are getting closer to knowing the truth.Originally posted by paperflower:why do I feel so light when meditating? like as if i'm going to go out of my body? i'm scared to let go dun know what will happen so I deliberately bring myself back? but feeling is also very joyful so free dun know use what words to describe.
in my mind I just tell myself to be with buddha cos I know they will guide me protect me.
its only the moment of that lightness occurrs I feel I must not let go.
just awhile of meditating an hour has passed. never realise time flies when in meditating.
feel extremely fresh n energetic after that, I look fresh n radiant in mirror too.
no kidding...
any1 has meditating experience to share? -
Not all enlightened men left society, actually. There are a lot of real Bodhisattvas in our society.Originally posted by 022615:Buddha once said,
head straight towards enlightenment (annuttara samyaksambodhi),
and nothing else,
but no man has done so,
those who have are already immortal beings,
and left them of society,
praise those immortal saints,
alas, who could see their powers and virtues?
these days who can cultivate to mahasattvahood..? -
i'd like to share this with anyone keen in meditating. (in this url, please scroll up abit more for the index)
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/dmasam2.htm#preface