Head stratching question
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Yo yo all!
Recently i purchased a book "Introduction to Buddhism" written by Tibetian master Geshe Kelsang Gyasto. The book generally are well written but still i got some question.
Karma
He mentioned that 3 non-virtuous actions, namely 3 bodily, 4 speech and finally 3 mental. One of the speech mentioned was idly chatter. I would like to know why as idle chatter considered non-virtuous. And regarding mental, why was it considered a non-virtuous thinking can lead to bad karma (i suppose this is what he meant) "Sexual misconduct" as non-virtuous action. How do u realli define it...i understood that misconduct with married partners is definitly led to bad karma but does that apply to before-marriage sex too?
Mahayana Sutra of the three superior heaps
Why was there names of pagan gods, "Water Deities" and "God of water deities" be use as an object to "postrate"? I thought buddhism not suppose to worship any higher beings?
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Pls note that Kelsang Gyatso - the founder of New Kadampa Tradition is not recognised in our forum. He was kicked out of his Sera Monastery for insulting Dalai Lama, revealing certain teachings inappropriately and for persisting in doing an unorthodox practise.
Pls see: Schools/Traditions/Sects NOT Recognised In Our Forum -
If I never interpret wrongly, non-virtuous thoughts means you are thinking of evil things like "If I ever see this person again, I will kill him" or thinking bad things like suicide.Originally posted by Texcoco II:Yo yo all!
Recently i purchased a book "Introduction to Buddhism" written by Tibetian master Geshe Kelsang Gyasto. The book generally are well written but still i got some question.
Karma
He mentioned that 3 non-virtuous actions, namely 3 bodily, 4 speech and finally 3 mental. One of the speech mentioned was idly chatter. I would like to know why as idle chatter considered non-virtuous. And regarding mental, why was it considered a non-virtuous thinking can lead to bad karma (i suppose this is what he meant)
Mahayana Sutra of the three superior heaps
Why was there names of pagan gods, "Water Deities" and "God of water deities" be use as an object to "postrate"? I thought buddhism not suppose to worship any higher beings?
For idly chatter, can't remember. Something like talking crap if I never remember wrongly.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Oh no!
Pls note that Kelsang Gyatso - the founder of New Kadampa Tradition is not recognised in our forum. He was kicked out of his Sera Monastery for insulting Dalai Lama, revealing certain teachings inappropriately and for persisting in doing an unorthodox practise.
Pls see: Schools/Traditions/Sects NOT Recognised In Our Forum
Does that mean i hav to throw his book away?
Anyway can u guys recommend any goof intro buddhism guide book? -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Apparently some of these followers from different sects from your list have developed "certain" abilities
Therefore, it is wise not to go into direct confrontation with them
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
But some of his teachings correct leh. Like what the threadstarter says. Although they are occult. -
He mentioned that 3 non-virtuous actions, namely 3 bodily, 4 speech and finally 3 mental. One of the speech mentioned was idly chatter. I would like to know why as idle chatter considered non-virtuous. And regarding mental, why was it considered a non-virtuous thinking can lead to bad karma (i suppose this is what he meant) "Sexual misconduct" as non-virtuous action. How do u realli define it...i understood that misconduct with married partners is definitly led to bad karma but does that apply to before-marriage sex too?
Idle chatter is unvirtuous bcos in idle chatting/gossiping you often discuss Shi4 Fei1 of all kinds of things... an as result you may hurt other people unknowingly, whether or not the person is present. We should be mindful of our speech. Idle speech does no good in along the way we create lots of speech karma. Therefore Mindfulness of Speech is very important. Speech should be used to comfort/console people. Used for the right purpose.Kinds of speech to be avoided by contemplatives
Before-marriage sex is ok AS LONG AS you only do it with your PARTNER.
"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to talking about lowly topics such as these -- talking about kings, robbers, ministers of state; armies, alarms, and battles; food and drink; clothing, furniture, garlands, and scents; relatives; vehicles; villages, towns, cities, the countryside; women and heroes; the gossip of the street and the well; tales of the dead; tales of diversity [philosophical discussions of the past and future], the creation of the world and of the sea, and talk of whether things exist or not -- he abstains from talking about lowly topics such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue.
"Whereas some priests and contemplatives, living off food given in faith, are addicted to debates such as these -- 'You understand this doctrine and discipline? I'm the one who understands this doctrine and discipline. How could you understand this doctrine and discipline? You're practicing wrongly. I'm practicing rightly. I'm being consistent. You're not. What should be said first you said last. What should be said last you said first. What you took so long to think out has been refuted. Your doctrine has been overthrown. You're defeated. Go and try to salvage your doctrine; extricate yourself if you can!' -- he abstains from debates such as these. This, too, is part of his virtue."
-- DN 2
Ten wholesome topics of conversation
"There are these ten topics of [proper] conversation. Which ten? Talk on modesty, on contentment, on seclusion, on non-entanglement, on arousing persistence, on virtue, on concentration, on discernment, on release, and on the knowledge & vision of release. These are the ten topics of conversation. If you were to engage repeatedly in these ten topics of conversation, you would outshine even the sun & moon, so mighty, so powerful -- to say nothing of the wanderers of other sects."
-- AN X.69
Meaning no casual sex or sex other than your partner or spouse. Extra-marital affair is also Sexual Misconduct. And not to forget, YOU MUST BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PREGNANCY. Abortion is also very bad karma - it is actually killing. Sex is only when you are prepared to start a family... it is merely a biological function to reproduce.Mahayana Sutra of the three superior heaps
I do not know what water deities is that? Pls tell us which deity did the book say...
Why was there names of pagan gods, "Water Deities" and "God of water deities" be use as an object to "postrate"? I thought buddhism not suppose to worship any higher beings?
But in Buddhism we DO prostrations to the Buddha, the Bodhisattvas, etc. It's not worshipping.
In fact there is a practise called 3-steps-1-bow, sometimes monasteries do that. Or in Tibet you should know that there are pilgrims who prostrate hundreds of miles for years.http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no3e.htm
2. What is the significance of cultivating the 3-steps-1-bow?
It has broad significance. In simple terms, it is to eradicate pride and ego.
The 3-steps-1-bow is a very good method of cultivation. In cultivation we seek to let go of the Three Minds [2] and eliminate the Four Forms [3]. At the time of practising this method, the mind of the past, the present and the future does not exist. Furthermore, the ego-form, human-form, sentient being-form and time-form are also non-existent. When we cultivate the 3-steps-1-bow in reverence of the Manjusri Bodhisattva, we only have the Manjusri Bodhisattva in our mind.
As Buddhism practitioners, we demonstrate our reverence of the Buddha by, for example, bowing or prostrating before the Buddha. There is yet a very important purpose in paying reverence to the Buddha in this way, and that is to eliminate our pride and ego. If, as practitioners of Buddhism, we continue to harbour pride and ego, then it shows that we have not cultivated enough.
When we practise in this way, we will begin to experience changes in our lives. For example, people who used to be egoistic and conceited will become mellowed with humility and modesty. It is only when a person has become humble and modest that he gradually finds changes and progress in his conduct as a person and in his dealings in all matters. At the same time, his wisdom will begin to grow.
In the past, in China, many of the well-cultivated monks cultivated the 3-steps-1-bow method. They did not perform the practice just for an hour or a day, but they could take years at a stretch. Each day, they cultivated the 3-steps-1-bow method, and the pilgrimage might take 2 or 3 years or even longer. Hence, when we aspire to become Buddha, we have to learn and cultivate like them, with such determination. This would hasten the goal of Buddhahood. However, not many people can do the same.
[1] 3-steps-1-bow method: Practitioners take three steps as they recite the name of a Bodhisattva or Buddha and then prostrate their body in reverence.
[2] The Three Minds: (i) the past is gone and cannot be grasped. (ii) After this moment, the present becomes past and also cannot be grasped. (iii) The future is not here yet and therefore cannot be grasped too.
[3] The four forms: Form – Characteristics; (i) Everybody has an ego, this is the ego- form. (ii) When we see another person, we arise in our mind the human-form. (iii) When thoughts arise in our mind, we produce the sentient being-form in our mind. (iv) The continuity of these thoughts through time gives rise to the time-form. -
Before-marriage sex is ok AS LONG AS you only do it with your PARTNER. Meaning no casual sex or sex other than your partner or spouse. Extra-marital affair is also Sexual Misconduct. And not to forget, YOU MUST BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PREGNANCY. Abortion is also very bad karma - it is actually killing. Sex is only when you are prepared to start a family... it is merely a biological function to reproduce.
This is correct? -
Yes, if 99 parts of what he said is correct, 1 part is wrong, it is also very dangerous in our cultivation. For example if we follow his unorthodox practise, then this will obstruct our path.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:But some of his teachings correct leh. Like what the threadstarter says. Although they are occult.
Kalsang Gyatso may even good in Buddhist philosophies having learnt for years under the Gelug system, but doesnt mean knowledgeable means safe... -
Only when you are very certain you are going to be married - and when everything is OK. Not when still engaged in studies etc... must use wisdom. Parents must still do duty to advise their child not to have sex until the right time.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:This is correct?
But marriage is a social or personal matter, not a religious duty in Buddhism. -
But you say with the your partner, so that means confirmed that you are going to marry your partner then can have casual sex with him/her? Even before marriage?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Only when you are very certain you are going to be married - and when everything is OK. Not when still engaged in studies etc... must use wisdom. Parents must still do duty to advise their child not to have sex until the right time.
But marriage is a social or personal matter, not a religious duty in Buddhism.
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Marriage is only seen as a social custom in Buddhism. Maybe in some countries they dont even have marriage ceremonies.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:But you say with the your partner, so that means confirmed that you are going to marry your partner then can have casual sex with him/her? Even before marriage?
As long as you are faithful to your partner, that is most important. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Oh....
Marriage is only seen as a social custom in Buddhism. Maybe in some countries they dont even have marriage ceremonies.
As long as you are [b]faithful to your partner, that is most important.[/b] -
[post removed]Originally posted by maggot:Apparently some of these followers from different sects from your list have developed "certain" abilities
Therefore, it is wise not to go into direct confrontation with them -
this before-marriage-sex thing is very controversial. it happens almost everywhere in any culture any religion-orientated people although they know that its not allowed.
use own "wisdom" or what u see that could result out of this. alot of people find it very "ok" nothing wrong to it since its modern time. is it a sad thing? to me it is coz i think its just an excuse for being ignorant. liberal? what is liberal? having sexual misconduct engaging in 3somes 4somes having affairs having own private parts displayed on magazines in public being cool & liberal? it is only in the sheer illusionalised sense but thats low low low low low low quality of being liberal. its immoral & cannot truly realise TRUE liberations as where the word liberal comes from! only sufferings.... what sufferings? read the newspaper watch the news hear people's problem and/or see for yourself what's happening in front of u. those are sufferings. people who can't let go can withstand the wagging tails of the slashing tongue gossiping and criticising and slandering for long? now wheres the true liberal thinking being open minded?. its all only suffering! and thats the truth. -
Indeed. My Taiwanese dharma teacher used to say, what is liberal and freedom? There are TERMS AND CONDITIONS to it. It is that freedom should used only when it does not harm yourself or others. Freedom to break precepts or cause harm to others is not true freedom at all.
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someone also ever mentioned to me that if the partner is the one u are going to get married with, is ok to have sex before marriage.
but i feel there is no truly right or wrong about this....
many things can happen unexpectedly.
it is controversial but deep down i feel it is still ain't right no matter how open minded i am. -
edited certain posts after receiving certain advises
pls refrain from commenting about NKT issue here thanks. -
Yup, do avoid all books by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, because him and his followers are proponents of a particular practice which has been very severely warned by HH Dalai Lama and many great teachers, that is harmful to the Dharma. The practice also tends to distract one's mind away from the Dharma but rather preoccupied with worldly benefits like wealth etc.
Since you have already bought the book, I suggest you burn it away respectfully (since there is still Dharma content in the book) or bring to a Buddhist temple and request them to help you dispose of the book appropriately.
I agree with Eternal Now that the most dangerous are the ones which have 90% truth and 10% untruth, which can easily lead us up the wrong path.
For your information, in Singapore this particular tradition has a center known as the Singapore Gelugpa Buddhist Society (can't remember if it ends with "Buddhist Society", "Buddhist Centre" or "Buddhist Association"). Heard that they may be holding a hundred million chants of Om Mani Padme Hung end of this year maybe in Kallang Theatre. Do take note of it and avoid taking part in it. -
Good intro to Buddhism books - quite a number of good books. U could check them out and see if they help u.
"Turning the Mind into An Ally" by Sakyong Mipham
"Rule Your World: Ancient Strategies for Modern Life" by Sakyong Mipham
"What Buddhists Believe" by K. Sri Dhammananda
"What The Buddha Taught" by Walpola Rahula
"It's Up To You: The Practice of Self-Liberation on the Buddhist Path" by Dzigar Kongtrul
If you can read Chinese, there's actually an excellent introductory book called "fo2 jiao4 de jian4 di4 yu3 xiu1 dao4".
Any books by the Dalai Lama, Thich Nhat Hanh and Ajahn Chah, usually written in laymen language and rather easy for beginners to read, yet still very enlightening.
Also, some free distribution books provide very good intro to Buddhism. such as "Be A Lamp Upon Yourself" and "The Tree of Enlightenment" by Dr Peter D. Santina. There's also a yellow book by Thubten Chodron, but I forgot the title. You could check out the publication dept of the Phor Kark See Kong Meng San Monastery www.kmspks.org to request for some of these free distribution books.
You would also be able to find many other resources from the website www.buddhanet.net
All the best for your search. -
[quote]Originally posted by _wanderer_:
[b]Yup, do avoid all books by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, because him and his followers are proponents of a particular practice which has been very severely warned by HH Dalai Lama and many great teachers, that is harmful to the Dharma. The practice also tends to distract one's mind away from the Dharma but rather preoccupied with worldly benefits like wealth etc.
Since you have already bought the book, I suggest you burn it away respectfully (since there is still Dharma content in the book) or bring to a Buddhist temple and request them to help you dispose of the book appropriately.
I agree with Eternal Now that the most dangerous are the ones which have 90% truth and 10% untruth, which can easily lead us up the wrong path.
Well, the Buddha has prophesised that in a future age, there are demonic monks that pollute and change his dhamma and that is happening now.
Do you see and heard some monks that live immorally. Few years ago, there is a abbot in Thailand I think in the newspapers that was such monk, indulging in immoral practises, cant remember what he did. -
Hi Texcoco II,
Title:Buddhism Plain and Simple
Author: Steve Hagen
rating:5 stars
commend:This was an excellent introduction and 'plain and Simple' as the title suggests. Simply an excellent starting point for those interested in learning about buddhism
btw .. this book is available in the library ..
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You said not allowed. An Eternal Now says as long as you are faithful to one partner then it's ok.Originally posted by paperflower:this before-marriage-sex thing is very controversial. it happens almost everywhere in any culture any religion-orientated people although they know that its not allowed.
use own "wisdom" or what u see that could result out of this. alot of people find it very "ok" nothing wrong to it since its modern time. is it a sad thing? to me it is coz i think its just an excuse for being ignorant. liberal? what is liberal? having sexual misconduct engaging in 3somes 4somes having affairs having own private parts displayed on magazines in public being cool & liberal? it is only in the sheer illusionalised sense but thats low low low low low low quality of being liberal. its immoral & cannot truly realise TRUE liberations as where the word liberal comes from! only sufferings.... what sufferings? read the newspaper watch the news hear people's problem and/or see for yourself what's happening in front of u. those are sufferings. people who can't let go can withstand the wagging tails of the slashing tongue gossiping and criticising and slandering for long? now wheres the true liberal thinking being open minded?. its all only suffering! and thats the truth.
My thinkings go along with Singapore's sex education. Do so only after you are married and stay faithful to your partner.
I don't think it's OK to do so because it's the modern times. Modern doesn't mean traditions should be discarded. -
It is a matter of mundane wisdom, really.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:You said not allowed. An Eternal Now says as long as you are faithful to one partner then it's ok.
My thinkings go along with Singapore's sex education. Do so only after you are married and stay faithful to your partner.
I don't think it's OK to do so because it's the modern times. Modern doesn't mean traditions should be discarded.
For many obvious reasons it is still advisable to abstain from pre-marital sex. This will prevent lots of personal and social problems from arising. -
Originally posted by _wanderer_:
That book is by Dzongsar Rinpoche
"It's Up To You: The Practice of Self-Liberation on the Buddhist Path" by Dzigar Kongtrul
If you can read Chinese, there's actually an excellent introductory book called "fo2 jiao4 de jian4 di4 yu3 xiu1 dao4".
[/b]
at
http://www.Siddharthaintent.org
i have that book .....