Timeline
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So many lines... which line?Originally posted by paperflower:pardon me for saying this, i only see "nonsense" in your line. -
Neither can you dismiss it as false so quickly!Originally posted by paperflower:cenariuos,
speculation is not the real answer. -
buddhism is founded by shakyamuni buddha in this period. he never forced anyone to believe him. buddha is compassionate and wants to guide & save all sentient beings from sufferings. how can we leave buddha out and disregard buddha?! we meditate on the qualities of buddha not just simply reading the teachings without investigating and not knowing him as the respected teacher of buddhism. buddhism is beyond human psychology, beyond just knowing the nature of the mind. knowing the mind yes agreed but also u forgotton to add..... detachment.Originally posted by neutral_onliner:First of all, in Buddhism weÂ’re not that interested in talking about the Buddha himself. Nor was he; he wasnÂ’t interested in people believing in him, so to this day Buddhism has never encouraged its followers simply to believe in the Buddha. We have always been more interested in understanding human psychology, the nature of the mind. Thus, Buddhist practitioners always try to understand their own mental attitudes, concepts, perceptions and consciousness. Those are the things that really matter. -
how would u be ignited to search & seek if you didn't ask yourself who u are & what is buddha. when u go deeper into the teachings of buddha, there is no self. when there's nothing to remember then whats there to forget? as long as u are still in the cycle in samsara, u are in a dream. and same goes to you too - be careful. in buddhism - emptiness is form, form is emptiness - there's no separate identification, there's universal unity in oneness. connection is not the exact correct word. being in pure clear awareness is being with buddha in the same pure luminous brightness. not being in awareness and not being mindful is being non-realistic. yes there's the high and low, but u forgot that buddha found the middle way - non dualism. and thats still not the end yet...... - detachment from non-dualism.Originally posted by neutral_onliner:Otherwise, if you forget about yourself and your delusions and focus instead on some lofty idea—like “What is Buddha?”—your spiritual journey becomes a dream-like hallucination. That’s possible; be careful. In your mind there’s no connection between Buddha, or God, and yourself. They’re completely separate things: you’re completely down here; Buddha, or God, is completely up there. There’s no connection whatsoever. It’s not realistic to think that way. It’s too extreme. You’re putting one thing down at the lower extreme and the other way up at the upper. In Buddhism, we call that kind of mind dualistic. -
the 3 jewels, do u know what are they? where do we take refuge, do u know? humans are not negative by nature. we by nature have buddha nature in us already and is that negative? buddhism is a gradual training path leading to liberations end of sufferings. along the way there are alot of hindrances. "idea" is not truly the exact motivation, it is not. buddhism does not embrace the idea of one supreme almighty god. people want to know the path to end their sufferings and gain enlightenment which in true self is inherently non-existence so should sufferings - that enlightenment liberations naturally is the highest achievement. realisations are just a fraction adding on along the gradual path to liberations which many truths are unfolded not just mere word - facts.Originally posted by neutral_onliner:Furthermore, if humans are completely negative by nature, what is the point of seeking a higher idea? Anyway, ideas are not realizations. People always want to know all about the highest attainments or the nature of God, but such intellectual knowledge has nothing to do with their lives or their minds. True religion should be the pursuit of self-realization, not an exercise in the accumulation of facts.
u must know how to differentiate the meanings of "idea" and "realisations" for a sentence to be constructively understood and logical in the dharma teachings. -
we gain wisdom in buddhism more than just limited intellectual ability to read, write & understand and know to become knowledgable. it is beyond knowledge. still u are in the dualistic mode if u read yr sentences clearly enough. middle path in buddhism practices non-dualism and u are saying "we are MUCH MORE INTERESTED in........" & "how to find happiness and joy instead of depression and misery" which is an attachment, conditioned, leaning to one side only and not in mindfulness and standing in the middle path. or is it that u have only stopped at being dualistic and concluded thats the end? yes agree its about right here right now at this very moment - which i am here with you right here right now at this moment......Originally posted by neutral_onliner:In Buddhism, we are not particularly interested in the quest for intellectual knowledge alone. We are much more interested in understanding whatÂ’s happening here and now, in comprehending our present experiences, what we are at this very moment, our fundamental nature. We want to know how to find satisfaction, how to find happiness and joy instead of depression and misery, how to overcome the feeling that our nature is totally negative.
in buddhism, negative is positive, happiness is sadness.... vice versa. happiness, joy, depression misery are all sufferings in samsara. what's satisfaction? satisfaction & pure bliss, which one u choose? overcoming is only temporary. everything is impermanent. the solution and real word is cessation not overcome. -
buddha nature is already in us, for us to realise it and light it up from the darkness of ignorance. pure & egoless is so limited, there are more much much more than just being pure & egoless.Originally posted by neutral_onliner:Lord Buddha himself taught that basically, human nature is pure, egoless, just as the sky is by nature clear, not cloudy. Clouds come and go, but the blue sky is always there; clouds donÂ’t alter the fundamental nature of the sky. Similarly, the human mind is fundamentally pure, not one with the ego. Anyway, whether you are a religious person or not, if you canÂ’t separate yourself from your ego, youÂ’re completely misguided; youÂ’ve created for yourself a totally unrealistic philosophy of life that has nothing whatsoever to do with reality.
look carefully and clearly through the buddha's teachings.
you are so so wrong here..... for clouds to be cloudy is natural - nature. same for a mind to be cloudy and wander about is natural - nature. sky to be cloudy is natural scientically proven process not "ideally should be like this like that". for a moon to wane or wax or become full moon is nature. yes clouds come & go so do our thoughts come & go - thats nature. nothing is permanent, things arise and will cease. - NATURE - science is nature. not hallucination, speculation or ideals.
1st of all, if you choose to be not interested in knowing about the buddha, you'll never be able to understand his teachings in the same awareness of his. buddhism is more than just what people plainly conveniently call religion. knowing oneself being misguided and pointing that out is being realistic & mindful and whats realistic do u actually really know? truly mindfully here now is being realistic and is being with buddha in the present moment. when u don't wish to know about buddha how can u be mindful enough to express the buddha dharma - the truth authentically fearlessly that could make logical sense....
please take an effort to do more findings and seeking on buddha's teachings. it will benefit & save u.
also i hereby humbly apologise to you for steering the mind into the right direction, if that affected you. sorry.
i'm just standing by in my authentic sense to be with the true teachings of the buddha dharma that's all. no harm intended.
but i'm aware that a true buddhist would not be affected easily by external factors. like hh the dalai lama said, the mind should be like the occean, waves come and go but deep beneath the surface it is always calm and disrupted.
may all the dharma protectors protect not only the buddha dharma from falsehood but also protect & guide the students on the right path and may all be in the clear bright pure awareness and mindfulness of the buddha at all times!
no mo shakyamuni buddha -
This is getting interesting. It is very comforting to see constructive information exchange. Very impress by the inputs of PaperFlower. I am also delighted to know that more people are gaining deeper valuable insights into the wisdom of Buddhism.
Honestly I am sure Neutral_Online is very much interested in knowing about the Buddha. For me, I have interpreted his inputs quite differently.
My view is that both are very right, because both inputs are for different set/group of people (zhong sheng gen ji). And both are looking at things from a different angle and perspective.
A great learning experience from each and everyone of you.
NaMo A MiTuoFo
Rou4 Yao4 Fo1 Fa3 Xin1, Wei2 You3 Shen1 Zhan4 Shen1. -
True, true.Originally posted by paperflower:buddhism is founded by shakyamuni buddha in this period. he never forced anyone to believe him. buddha is compassionate and wants to guide & save all sentient beings from sufferings. how can we leave buddha out and disregard buddha?! we meditate on the qualities of buddha not just simply reading the teachings without investigating and not knowing him as the respected teacher of buddhism. buddhism is beyond human psychology, beyond just knowing the nature of the mind. knowing the mind yes agreed but also u forgotton to add..... detachment..
However, what I think neutral onliner is trying to say is that reverence to the Buddha (as a deity) is not in the core teachings of Buddhism. There are several layers in the meaning to the word "Buddha". It can denote a person (who is the historical Sakyamuni Buddha), it can also mean the state of enlightenment. We as Buddhists revere Buddha out of a deep, profound respect and gratitude for him, but there is nothing in Buddhist teachings that claim of BuddhaÂ’s exclusive sovereignty a la Monotheistic religions style. -
Cenarious,Originally posted by Cenarious:Yup, he didn't bother to read my tiny post.
And Cenarius is the demigod teacher of Furion Stormrage
So you do play World of Warcraft. Which server are you on? Cenarius? -
Originally posted by Beyond Religion:True, true.
However, what I think neutral onliner is trying to say is that reverence to the Buddha (as a deity) is not in the core teachings of Buddhism. There are several layers in the meaning to the word "Buddha". It can denote a person (who is the historical Sakyamuni Buddha), it can also mean the state of enlightenment. We as Buddhists revere Buddha out of a deep, profound respect and gratitude for him, but there is nothing in Buddhist teachings that claim of BuddhaÂ’s exclusive sovereignty a la Monotheistic religions style.
yeah...... understand.
as one goes along a step at a time deeper into the teachings of the buddha, one will come across & understand the words of buddha saying we do not worship him as a god for he said he was never a god, he calls himself the enlightened one the awakened one. buddha is a title of a position. buddha is not a word meaning deity or god. he also did elaborate and encourage the use of buddhas & bodhisattvas images in buddhist practice as a form of reminder, concentration & invisible guidance. likewise, the mind can also just picture an image of him for guidance if one chooses not to want to use images. prostrating to buddha's image is not worshipping him, it is an act of giving up our pride and self ego and ready to absorb and learn the teachings from the teacher - buddha. we bow to receive the teachings - from above the head, at the forehead, at the throat, in the heart and fall all the way down to the floor with our foreheads touching the floor in complete egoless self to learn the teachings from him. this is not worshipping at all. we do not just respect buddha alone, we respect all things all beings equally... from ghost to tiny ants to big animals to humans or up in heavens cos we are all still in sufferings and we have to be kind & compassionate. to criticise is not a good practice. but criticising and pointing out something is also just a sheer very thin line apart in meaning. pointing out the correct things & pointing out mistakes (ignorance, stupidity, wrong direction) is showing compassion & saving others, neither is that considered criticising nor condemning.
k, well thanks for exchanging. its good to work the minds in reality instead of always idling in conditioned dreams.
cheeers! -
In Buddhist communities, everything should be opened for query and for everyone to investigate.
No worries. I've learned something valuable and important from you.
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Jubei'Thos Alliance
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we r all in the learning pathOriginally posted by concerned_man:In Buddhist communities, everything should be opened for query and for everyone to investigate.
No worries. I've learned something valuable and important from you. -
agreedOriginally posted by neutral_onliner:we r all in the learning path