Thoughts are Empty
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The root of ignorance, the I-Thought, leads to all other thoughts.Originally posted by Isis:Why it is because of dependent on ignorance that mental formation form?
From where does this "I" arise? Seek for it within; it then vanishes. This is the pursuit of wisdom. When the mind unceasingly investigates its own nature, it transpires that there is no such thing as mind. This is the direct path for all. The mind is merely thoughts. Of all thoughts the thought "I" is the root. Therefore the mind is only the thought "I". - Sri Ramana Maharshi
--- from our forummer:
We are unable to experience the full power of Presence because we objectify reality. Just like thoughts are objectified in art, a process is objectified into something concrete by ideas. There must be an 'I' experiencing from moment to moment is an assumption, it is not reality. When we do away with all labeling and become bare in attention, it is always this process, arising and ceasing from moment to moment and the reality of existence is [text incomplete]
The entire field of Pure Awareness is truly an inter-dependent process, not an objectified entity. 'I' no matter how skillfully put, is always a form of holding (attachment) in disguised that results in separation. Without it, experiencing becomes simple, lucid, complete and direct, there is no vagueness. Presence is a free flow of pure awareness that is vibrantly clear and liberating.
When the 'I-Thought' that has been trapping us subsides, 'shadows' disappear, not only the images in terms of thoughts disappear, the entire body seems to disappear because everything is felt directly like a transparent mirror reflecting. 'Now' is this free flowing reflection. This is the beauty and full power of the Presence. GongggggÂ….how clear!
- Thusness
Also see: Returning to the Quintessence of Buddha
....The human being’s seventh mind-consciousness is the “I”. Because of “I”, it gives rise to “my”. Because of “me”, it gives rise to self-attachment, followed by attachment of perception such as “I like it this way …” or “I like it that way …” In the end, people become attached to everything, be it right or wrong. This is the root cause of distress and suffering. “Ignorance” means darkness and without brightness. People lose their temper because of ignorance. If we investigate the reason for being angry, at the beginning most people will blame it on others. On further investigation, we will discover that the anger stems from self-ignorance. When we have understood this principle, we will realize that these are due to this “I” (seventh mind-consciousness, transient-invisible body). Therefore if we allow it (the ignorance) to further develop and lead according to the wishes of this “I”, we will certainly descend to a lower realm of life, because the root of this “I” is ignorance....
and Cease your False Self and your True Self lives! -
Bodhidharma sits facing the wall. His future successor stands in the snow and presents his severed arm to Bodhidharma. He cries: "My mind is not pacified. Master, pacify my mind."
Bodhidharma says: "If you bring me that mind, I will pacify it for you."
The successor says: "When I search my mind I cannot hold it."
Bodhidharma says: "Then your mind is pacified already." -
That's because you ain't thinking on anything.Originally posted by Isis:I recently did a meditation and realise that all thought are empty...
Any comment on this?? -
May i ask do you have any first hand experience to back this statement or you just assume it out?Originally posted by 022615:That's because you ain't thinking on anything. -
Thank you. I have actually read the thread you post a long time ago. It's a very useful thread =D...Originally posted by An Eternal Now:The root of ignorance, the I-Thought, leads to all other thoughts.
From where does this "I" arise? Seek for it within; it then vanishes. This is the pursuit of wisdom. When the mind unceasingly investigates its own nature, it transpires that there is no such thing as mind. This is the direct path for all. The mind is merely thoughts. Of all thoughts the thought "I" is the root. Therefore the mind is only the thought "I". - Sri Ramana Maharshi
--- from our forummer:
We are unable to experience the full power of Presence because we objectify reality. Just like thoughts are objectified in art, a process is objectified into something concrete by ideas. There must be an 'I' experiencing from moment to moment is an assumption, it is not reality. When we do away with all labeling and become bare in attention, it is always this process, arising and ceasing from moment to moment and the reality of existence is [text incomplete]
The entire field of Pure Awareness is truly an inter-dependent process, not an objectified entity. 'I' no matter how skillfully put, is always a form of holding (attachment) in disguised that results in separation. Without it, experiencing becomes simple, lucid, complete and direct, there is no vagueness. Presence is a free flow of pure awareness that is vibrantly clear and liberating.
When the 'I-Thought' that has been trapping us subsides, 'shadows' disappear, not only the images in terms of thoughts disappear, the entire body seems to disappear because everything is felt directly like a transparent mirror reflecting. 'Now' is this free flowing reflection. This is the beauty and full power of the Presence. GongggggÂ….how clear!
- Thusness
Also see: Returning to the Quintessence of Buddha
....The human being’s seventh mind-consciousness is the “I”. Because of “I”, it gives rise to “my”. Because of “me”, it gives rise to self-attachment, followed by attachment of perception such as “I like it this way …” or “I like it that way …” In the end, people become attached to everything, be it right or wrong. This is the root cause of distress and suffering. “Ignorance” means darkness and without brightness. People lose their temper because of ignorance. If we investigate the reason for being angry, at the beginning most people will blame it on others. On further investigation, we will discover that the anger stems from self-ignorance. When we have understood this principle, we will realize that these are due to this “I” (seventh mind-consciousness, transient-invisible body). Therefore if we allow it (the ignorance) to further develop and lead according to the wishes of this “I”, we will certainly descend to a lower realm of life, because the root of this “I” is ignorance....
and Cease your False Self and your True Self lives! -
We do not need to fear thoughts, it is a matter of being aware of not. Arising of thoughts is not the problem, seeking and continuing the thoughts is the problem.
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ain't thinking on anything is thinking something - that ''nothingness''.Originally posted by 022615:That's because you ain't thinking on anything. -
From a good topic, The quintessence of the Platform Sutra by our ex-moderator Namelessness:
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
[b]More on No-Thought:
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/shikantaza.html
III. Also distinctive of Dogen's account of Shikantaza is that it is the practice of "without thinking" (hishiryo): which is also called no-mind (mushin; wu-hsin), the essence of Zen Enlightenment. Here we shall discuss "thinking," "not-thinking" and "without thinking."
A. THINKING (shiryo): This is our habitual tendency to stay in the mode of conceptualizing thought.
1. About "thinking" a) Noetic Attitude: positional (either affirming or negating); b) Noematic Content: conceptualized objects.
a) Noetic Attitude is positional (either affirming or negating): A subject is adopting an intentional stance toward an object and, specifically, thinking about it in either a positive or negative way: "This is an X" or "This is not an X," "Do X" or "Do not do X."
(1) Consciousness is an intentional vector proceeding from a subject to an object. The subject is a cognitive agent.
b) Noematic Content: X is an intentional object pointed to and conceived through our thoughts.
2. "Thinking" can be pictured as follows:
c) Aspects of "thinking":
(1) Subject-object division present: an active subject thinks an object.
(2) Non-immediacy: We do not experience the object immediately but only at a distance, as removed subjects, and only through the thoughts we have of the object.
(3) Non-fullness: We do not experience the object in its fullness or "suchness" but, rather, only as filtered through our thinking about it.
B. NOT-THINKING (fushiryo): About "not-thinking": (1) noetic attitude: positional (only negating); (2) noematic content: thinking (as objectified).
1. Noetic attitude is positional (only negating): Subject is agent seeking to suppress its thinking.
2. Noematic content: The object is now the "second-order" object "thinking about X."
"Not-thinking" can be pictured as follows:
3. Aspects of "not-thinking": Same as for "thinking."
a) Consciousness is still an intentional-vector proceeding from a subject to the object. The subject is still functioning as agent, even if one trying to bring an end to its own agency.
C. WITHOUT THINKING (hishiryo): This is no-thought (munen; wu-nien) or no-mind (mushin; wu-hsin): pure immediacy in the fullness of things as they are.
1. About "not-thinking": (1) noetic attitude: nonpositional (neither affirming nor negating); (2) noematic content: pure presence of things as they are (genjokoan).
a) Noetic attitude is nonpositional (neither affirming nor negating): Consciousness is no longer an intentional vector proceeding from a subject to an object but is, rather, an open dynamic field in which objects present themselves.
b) Noematic content: The object is no longer an object that is the target of an intentional act but is, rather, the object itself as it presents itself within the open dynamic field of consciousness.
c) Aspects of "without thinking":
(1) No subject-object distinction: The subject has disappeared—this being the Zen interpretation of Buddhist anatta or no-mind.
(2) Immediacy: Without a subject standing back, the experience is one of immediacy within the dynamic field of consciousness.
(3) Fullness: Because the object is not filtered through an intentional act, it presents itself in its fullness.
(4) Such immediacy and fullness are genjokoan, "pure presence of things as they are."
It is a serious mistake in the understanding of Zen to refer merely to the "denial" or "cessation" of "conceptual thinking." Regardless of whether or not it can be proven than the pre-Buddhist Sanskrit etymology of the term Dhyana can be shown to have no-thought connotations, the main concern here is the semantic development undergone by the Chinese term ch'an in the course of the production of the Ch'an texts in East Asia.
It is quite clear that in Ch'an Buddhism, no-mind, rather than referring to an absence of thought, refers to the condition of not being trapped in thoughts, not adhering to a certain conceptual habit or position.
The error of interpretation made by many scholars (and by Zen practitioners as well) lies precisely in taking the term "no-thought" to refer to some kind of permanent, or ongoing absence of thought. While this assumption is routinely made, it is impossible to corroborate it in the Ch'an canon. If we study the seminal texts carefully, we do find a description of the experience of an instantaneous severing of thought that occurs in the course of a thoroughgoing pursuit of a Buddhist meditative exercise.
Nowhere in the Platform Sutra, Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment, Diamond Sutra, or any other major Ch'an text, is the term "no-mind" explained to be a permanent incapacitation of the thinking faculty or the permanent cessation of all conceptual activity. (source)[/b] -
Entire post below by namelessness:
No thought, no form and no attachment is the quintessence of the Sutra. But it is not annihilation. It means to be detached from all thought, form and attachment.Originally posted by namelessness:Good Friends, it has been the tradition of our school to take 'No Thought' as the object, 'No Form' as the basis, and 'No Attachment' as the fundamental principle. 'No Form' means to be apart from the notion of forms when in contact with forms. 'No Thought' means to be away from thought when thought arises. 'No Attachment' is the characteristic of our nature. All things - good or bad, beautiful or ugly - should be treated as void. Even in time of disputes and quarrels we should treat our intimates and our enemies alike and never think of retaliation. From thought to thought, let the past be dead. If we allow our thoughts, past, present, and future, to link up in a series, it is called confinement. If we never let our mind attach to anything from thought to thought, and there will be no confinement. This is why 'No Attachment' is taken as the fundamental principle. Good Friends, to free ourselves from all external forms is called 'No Form'. When we are in a position to do so, the nature of Dharma will be pure. This is why 'No Form' is taken as the basis.Good Friends, to keep our mind free from defilement under all circumstances is called 'No Thought'. Our mind should stand aloof from circumstances, and allow no reaction to our mind from circumstances. But it is a great mistake to suppress our mind from all thinking; for even if we succeed in getting rid of all thoughts, and die immediately thereafter, still we shall be reincarnated elsewhere. Mark this, treaders of the Path. It is bad enough for a man to commit blunders from not knowing the meaning of the Dharma, but how much worse would it be to encourage others to follow suit? Being deluded, he sees not and in addition he blasphemes the Buddhist Canon. Therefore 'No Thought' is taken as the object.
Here the patriarch taught us how to be away from our thought. This is difficult because it will take us many years to practice that. But after that, our thoughts would be vanished naturally. That’s how ‘No thought’ can be accomplished. So it is not wise to suppress our mind from thinking, for whatever is suppressed will definitely strike back.
Good Friends, let me explain more fully why we take 'No Thought' as our object. It is because there is a type of man under delusion who boasts of the realization of the Self-nature; but being carried away by circumstances, ideas rise in his mind, followed by erroneous views that are the source of all sorts of false notions and defilements. In the Self-nature, there is intrinsically nothing to be attained. To say that there is attainment, and to talk thoughtlessly on merits or demerits are erroneous views and defilements. For this reason we take 'No Thought' as the object of our School.
Good Friends, what is that should be 'No'? What is that should be 'Thought'? 'No' means to have no dualistic and all defiling conceptions. 'Thought' means to fix our mind on the true nature of Tathata, for Tathata is the quintessence of thought, and thought is the result of the activity of Tathata. It is the positive essence of Tathata - not the sense organs - which gives rise to 'thought'. Tathata bears its own attribute, and therefore it can give rise to 'thought'. Without Tathata the sense organs and the sense objects would perish immediately.
Good Friends, because it is the attribute of Tathata which gives rise to 'thought', our sense organs - in spite of their functioning in seeing, hearing, touching, knowing, etc. - need not be tainted or defiled in all circumstances, and our true nature may be 'self-manifested' all the time. Therefore the Sutra says, "Even all Dharmas can be easily distinguished, the 'First Principle' is still immovable"
We still need to distinquish things in order to survive. The key to non-duality is to find our inner An-Hsiang first, and let An-Hsiang be the only response we have to all circumstances.