Lust and stimulation
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There was a previous topic "Is yanking accepted?"
According to my view, a monk or a bikkhu must definitely be abstained from lust, this is absolute, a monk, since one is purely a disciple of the Dharma, must totally extinguish lust, and any form of thoughts of comfort in entertaining females is absolutely prohibited, more so to talk about behaviour (flirting). This is said for true monks.
How about a layperson? My stand is: he is allowed to have minimal lust, his level of lust must be lower than ordinary human, which is to say he can copulate to procreate. What about lusty stimulation (masturbating) then?
By right a buddhist must give it up, if not, I won't say he's wrong either. Here are some guidelines about stimulation, what are the other area he must observe strictly:
1.MUST NOT flirt with opposite gender
2.MUST NOT engage in adultery
3.MUST NOT engage in permarital copultion
4.MUST NOT be addicted to stimulation
5.any upper part of the body MUST NOT touch the lower organ in contact
6.if a layperson is lusty, he MUST try to behave as morally upright as possible, and as mature, in public -
well 022615 using words MUST NOT is not very suitable in buddhism.Originally posted by 022615:There was a previous topic "Is yanking accepted?"
According to my view, a monk or a bikkhu must definitely be abstained from lust, this is absolute, a monk, since one is purely a disciple of the Dharma, must totally extinguish lust, and any form of thoughts of comfort in entertaining females is absolutely prohibited, more so to talk about behaviour (flirting). This is said for true monks.
How about a layperson? My stand is: he is allowed to have minimal lust, his level of lust must be lower than ordinary human, which is to say he can copulate to procreate. What about lusty stimulation (masturbating) then?
By right a buddhist must give it up, if not, I won't say he's wrong either. Here are some guidelines about stimulation, what are the other area he must observe strictly:
1.MUST NOT flirt with opposite gender
2.MUST NOT engage in adultery
3.MUST NOT engage in permarital copultion
4.MUST NOT be addicted to stimulation
5.any upper part of the body MUST NOT touch the lower organ in contact
6.if a layperson is lusty, he MUST try to behave as morally upright as possible, and as mature, in public
Morality in Buddhism is essentially practical in that it is only a means leading to the final goal of ultimate happiness. On the Buddhist path to Emancipation, each individual is considered responsible for his own fortunes and misfortunes. Each individual is expected to work his own deliverance by his understanding and effort. Buddhist salvation is the result of one's own moral development and can neither be imposed nor granted to one by some external agent. The Buddha's mission was to enlighten men as to the nature of existence and to advise them how best to act for their own happiness and for the benefit of others
Consequently, Buddhist ethics are not founded on any commandments which men are compelled to follow. The Buddha advised men on the conditions which were most wholesome and conducive to long term benefit for self and others. Rather than addressing sinners with such words as 'shameful', 'wicked', 'wretched', 'unworthy', and 'blasphemous' He would merely say, 'You are unwise in acting in such a way since this will bring sorrow upon yourselves and others.'
BTW Did u read up the info provided by An Eternal Now.
Have u by now understand why buddhism reject the theory of soul?
Well my fren we would like to share wf u and try to clear all ur doubts & misconception as possible as we can.
may u be happy
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022615: I must say, yours are good and wise guidelines, but as neutral onliner said, it is not necessary to say 'MUST NOT'.
If one truly cultivates his mind, then when defilements find no grounding on, naturally he will not be affected by these.
Therefore cultivating the mind is important, constantly watch the arising and ceasing of the thoughts.
Buddha gave hundreds of precepts to Bhikkhus, but if he can grasp the essence of dharma, all precepts will naturally not be broken, and he is abiding by the precepts in the highest stage.
In other words other than observing precepts, one must observe the mind. If one observes the mind, the naturally he wont have defiled actions, then naturally he does not need to rely on rules and precepts. After all, all the precepts are set by Buddha one by one only after they are being broken by his monks and lay disciples. If the world is a Pure Land, then what precepts is needed? And if your Mind is Pure, Land is pure
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"Form does not differ from emptiness,
emptiness does not differ from form.
That which is form is emptiness, that which is emptiness form"
If you understand, things are as they are.
If you do not understand, things are as they are.
Poems by Ikkyu:
A Man's Root
Eight inches strong, it is my favorite thing;
If I'm alone at night, I embrace it fully—
A beautiful woman hasn't touched it for ages.
Within my fundoshi there is an entire universe!
A Woman's Sex
It has the original mouth but remains wordless;
It is surrounded by a magnificent mound of hair.
Sentient beings can get completely lost in it
But it is also the birthplace of all the Buddhas of the ten thousand worlds.
Rinzai's disciples never got the Zen message,
But I, the Blind Donkey, know the truth:
Love play can make you immortal.
The autumn breeze of a single night of love is better than a hundred thousand years of
sterile sitting meditation. . .
Stilted koans and convoluted answers are all monks have,
Pandering endlessly to officials and rich patrons.
Good friends of the Dharma, so proud, let me tell you,
A brothel girl in gold brocade is worth more than any of you.
Emerging from the world's grime, a puritan saint is still nowhere near a Buddha.
Enter a brothel once and Great Wisdom will explode upon you.
Manjushri should have let Ananda enjoy himself in the whorehouse –
Now he will never know the joys of elegant love play.
A sex-loving monk, you object!
Hot-blooded and passionate, totally aroused.
Remember, though, that lust can consume all passion,
Transmuting base metal into pure gold.
The lotus flower
Is unstained by mud;
This single dewdrop,
Just as it is,
Manifests the real body of truth.
Follow the rule of celibacy blindly and you are no more than an ass;
Break it and you are only human.
The spirit of Zen is manifest in ways countless as the sands of the Ganges.
Every newborn is a fruit of the conjugal bond.
For how many aeons have secret blossoms been budding and fading?
With a young beauty, sporting in deep love play;
We sit in the pavilion, a pleasure girl and this Zen monk.
Enraptured by hugs and kisses,
I certainly don't feel as if I am burning in hell. -
Crazy wisdom is not easily understood. Ikkyu is certainly one crazy enlightened master.
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Also my experience is, by cultivating samadhi through meditation, our mind will be much less affected by lust.
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thnks 4 sharing... this kind of discussion is veri positive as we r all on the path of learningOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:022615: I must say, yours are good and wise guidelines, but as neutral onliner said, it is not necessary to say 'MUST NOT'.
If one truly cultivates his mind, then when defilements find no grounding on, naturally he will not be affected by these.
Therefore cultivating the mind is important, constantly watch the arising and ceasing of the thoughts.
Buddha gave hundreds of precepts to Bhikkhus, but if he can grasp the essence of dharma, all precepts will naturally not be broken, and he is abiding by the precepts in the highest stage. -
Hiding your face behind a maskOriginally posted by 022615:There was a previous topic "Is yanking accepted?"
According to my view, a monk or a bikkhu must definitely be abstained from lust, this is absolute, a monk, since one is purely a disciple of the Dharma, must totally extinguish lust, and any form of thoughts of comfort in entertaining females is absolutely prohibited, more so to talk about behaviour (flirting). This is said for true monks.
How about a layperson? My stand is: he is allowed to have minimal lust, his level of lust must be lower than ordinary human, which is to say he can copulate to procreate. What about lusty stimulation (masturbating) then?
By right a buddhist must give it up, if not, I won't say he's wrong either. Here are some guidelines about stimulation, what are the other area he must observe strictly:
1.MUST NOT flirt with opposite gender
2.MUST NOT engage in adultery
3.MUST NOT engage in permarital copultion
4.MUST NOT be addicted to stimulation
5.any upper part of the body MUST NOT touch the lower organ in contact
6.if a layperson is lusty, he MUST try to behave as morally upright as possible, and as mature, in public
Is like a dog chasing its own tail.
Running away from your own self,
why not stop and see your original face? -
Ikkyu's poem sounds more like a cheeky poem than an enlightened one. don't find any impressiveness or wisdom in it except for his witty sense of describing lust and making love in a mundane way.
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From the mundane viewpoint yes.Originally posted by paperflower:Ikkyu's poem sounds more like a cheeky poem than an enlightened one. don't find any impressiveness or wisdom in it except for his witty sense of describing lust and making love in a mundane way. -
to add on, it sounds more porno than being enlightened.Originally posted by paperflower:Ikkyu's poem sounds more like a cheeky poem than an enlightened one. don't find any impressiveness or wisdom in it except for his witty sense of describing lust and making love in a mundane way.
think this should be put under the "category 3" section that falls for dirty jokes and poems. surely not for proper buddhist teachings. -
Enlightened men are no longer bound by any conditioned rule/principle/method. Many people do not understand this point. That's why many crazy masters who are highly enlightened get mistaken.Originally posted by paperflower:to add on, it sounds more porno than being enlightened.
think this should be put under the "category 3" section that falls for dirty jokes and poems. surely not for proper buddhist teachings.
Not to mention, there are seemingly "crazy" masters in modern times. Ever heard of Chogyam Trungpa? He is really enlightened too.
On the other hand there are also great masters who are highly and sometimes rigidly disciplined, and they can even appear to reprimand each other. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Enlightened men are no longer bound by any conditioned rule/principle/method. Many people do not understand this point. That's why many crazy masters who are highly enlightened get mistaken.
Not to mention, there are seemingly "crazy" masters in modern times. Ever heard of Chogyam Trungpa? He is really enlightened too.
is it really uh?
think i also can come up with one crazy poem. not that i'm implying i am wise or enlightened which i am not, think when you put your heart and mind into a topic deeply, anyone also can come up with one original poem thats speaks the mind the heart and the things around.
hahaaa
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Of cos not la...Originally posted by paperflower: is it really uh?
think i also can come up with one crazy poem. not that i'm implying i am wise or enlightened which i am not, think when you put your heart and mind into a topic deeply, anyone also can come up with one original poem thats speaks the mind the heart and the things around.
hahaaa
anyway i sent u through a private msg, an anecdote of crazy masters. i shall not share it in public here lest more misunderstandings occur. -
some highly enlightened people can be so accentric sometimes.....
is this what they call art? like the great artists who can perform best "alone" in their own inner world that from the outside, sometimes people won't be able to understand their art work. -
All enlightened masters get mistaken by unenlightened people.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Enlightened men are no longer bound by any conditioned rule/principle/method. Many people do not understand this point. That's why many crazy masters who are highly enlightened get mistaken.
Not to mention, there are seemingly "crazy" masters in modern times. Ever heard of Chogyam Trungpa? He is really enlightened too.
On the other hand there are also great masters who are highly and sometimes rigidly disciplined, and they can even appear to reprimand each other.
The problem is not with the masters but the mindset of the people.
Mind likes to sleep, and rules help to make sleeping easier. -
What is a poem to you?Originally posted by paperflower: is it really uh?
think i also can come up with one crazy poem. not that i'm implying i am wise or enlightened which i am not, think when you put your heart and mind into a topic deeply, anyone also can come up with one original poem thats speaks the mind the heart and the things around.
hahaaa
A poem is not a sutra --- it is in fact an antithesis of a sutra.
To speak the heart and the mind, how many people can do that? -
oh really? i learn something new today.Originally posted by talk_cock:What is a poem to you?
A poem is not a sutra --- it is in fact an antithesis of a sutra.
To speak the heart and the mind, how many people can do that?
ooops sorry for my unenlightened mind.
of cos i do know whats a poem and a sutra.
to speak the heart and mind, indeed not many can do that. like wise not less can't do that too. -
please do enlighten me some day.Originally posted by talk_cock:All enlightened masters get mistaken by unenlightened people.
The problem is not with the masters but the mindset of the people.
Mind likes to sleep, and rules help to make sleeping easier.
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A poem is a free flow of expression, the author captures his own expression.Originally posted by paperflower:oh really? i learn something new today.
ooops sorry for my unenlightened mind.
of cos i do know whats a poem and a sutra.
to speak the heart and mind, indeed not many can do that. like wise not less can do that too.
A sutra is a set of teaching for others to follow, the author has to think of those who read it.
If you read the 1st verse of the the Tao De Jing or the Heart Sutra, the author begins with a disclaimer. After the disclaimer, the set of instructions can be taught. -
i humbly accept your guidance, thank you.Originally posted by talk_cock:A poem is a free flow of expression, the author captures his own expression.
A sutra is a set of teaching for others to follow, the author has to think of those who read it.
If you read the 1st verse of the the Tao De Jing or the Heart Sutra, the author begins with a disclaimer. After the disclaimer, the set of instructions can be taught.
indeed a book can't be judged by its cover just like your username, which you might have some depths beneath. -
That is true.Originally posted by talk_cock:All enlightened masters get mistaken by unenlightened people.
The problem is not with the masters but the mindset of the people.
Mind likes to sleep, and rules help to make sleeping easier.
But sometimes it is better if the enlightened master can use some layman term to explain to the people.
No point telling him something that he doesn't understand.
The reason why some people become christians is because they find the christian teaching simple to understand. -
Don't just simply raise another thought to subdue the lusty thought.
If doing so, even if the lusty thought is gone, the thought that we summoned to defeat the lusty thought is still there.
Must understand why and how lust is bad to you thus developing right thought, maintain mindfulness as much as you can. -
i can also firmly point out to you that the problem does lie on the masters as well.Originally posted by talk_cock:All enlightened masters get mistaken by unenlightened people.
The problem is not with the masters but the mindset of the people.
Mind likes to sleep, and rules help to make sleeping easier.
just as the buddha is enlightened, he uses his wisdom to teach his teachings according to the various people's standard so that they each can absorb according to their capabilities.
being enlightened is not about wahh... wanna use deep beat the bush around analogy or story or poem to fascinate people. it is to be simply natural clean straight forward.
if u wanna put it as the problem is with the mindset of people then i think you are so dualistic.
if you could understand and have been enlightned by the crazy master's poem, please do share and enlighten everyone of us here yeah. share and u will benefit yourself and others. don't just blindly support the crazy poems. explain to us the meaning. will be glad to receive your guiduance.
ok? -
do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumoured by many.
do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
but after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason, and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. - The Buddha