Buddhism cannot be discussed openly?
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"Buddhism is not to be discussed openly, or it will lost its intention and effect into idle talk and discussive thinking. It teachings are to be received from teacher to student."
How valid is the above statement?
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Absolutely true. It is based not not reality and so if you discuss it openly, then it will fail because it cannot stand the truth of reality.Originally posted by Texcoco II:"Buddhism is not to be discussed openly, or it will lost its intention and effect into idle talk and discussive thinking. It teachings are to be received from teacher to student."
How valid is the above statement? -
dharma - buddhism of cos can be discussed openly among groups of buddhist students. the buddha didn't teach us to be silent or keep to ourselves, he encouraged us to be sociable in a "quiet modest way".
teachers are there to teach us, enlighten us but the ultimate teacher is our own buddha-nature. and we need a reliable teacher to help us waken this buddha-nature within us. all teachers were also like us who also go through learning from their teachers before they teach and pass on to the students. teaching is also part of learning. there are also students who surpass the peers. -
Buddhism is a opened system where people can investigate and query.
Nothing to hide.
However, there are cases when someone is ascertain about this spiritual tradition, the student will only focus and listen to one teacher.
Seeking for a really good teacher is not easy. To have a extraordinary student crossing the path of an excellent teacher is even more difficult. -
Buddhism is definitely based on reality, and only reality.Originally posted by casino_king:Absolutely true. It is based not not reality and so if you discuss it openly, then it will fail because it cannot stand the truth of reality. -
We have gone through this part the last time and I do not wish to do it all over again.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Buddhism is definitely based on reality, and only reality. -
Buddhism can be discussed openly, but if you want to discuss the meanings of Sutras, better not if we do not have the wisdom. Because we are not enlightened and may misinterprete it.Originally posted by Texcoco II:"Buddhism is not to be discussed openly, or it will lost its intention and effect into idle talk and discussive thinking. It teachings are to be received from teacher to student."
How valid is the above statement? -
And we already concluded that there is nothing that Buddhism is based on beliefs, theories. Everything can be realised and is based on reality.Originally posted by casino_king:We have gone through this part the last time and I do not wish to do it all over again.
Of course, things like spirituality cannot be comprehended by simple logic and thoughts. We will have to see it for ourselves. -
If you are like the christians and claim that you can see and know after you are dead... well maybe you can claim that "spirituality cannot be comprehended by simple logic and thoughts. We will have to see it for ourselves."Originally posted by An Eternal Now:And we already concluded that there is nothing that Buddhism is based on beliefs, theories. Everything can be realised and is based on reality.
Of course, things like spirituality cannot be comprehended by simple logic and thoughts. We will have to see it for ourselves.
You are saying that here and now in this physical world, people can see and do things that are supernatural but even though you are talking about here and now and living people, you fail to produce any evidence of that and you simply believe it.
I am so tired of debating with religious people becuase you people have such low standards. Anything is acceptable as evidence as long as you choose to believe it. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
Buddhists attain enlightenment during life, not after death.
If you are like the christians and claim that you can see and know after you are dead... well maybe you can claim that "spirituality cannot be comprehended by simple logic and thoughts. We will have to see it for ourselves."You are saying that here and now in this physical world, people can see and do things that are supernatural but even though you are talking about here and now and living people, you fail to produce any evidence of that and you simply believe it.
I have already given you many links on that.
But then again, I stress this is of no importance to Buddhism.I am so tired of debating with religious people becuase you people have such low standards. Anything is acceptable as evidence as long as you choose to believe it. [/b]
Yes I already provided some evidences in the previous topic. Go look for it. -
This goes straight to the credibility of Buddhism. What is Buddhism if not for the supernatural claims? It becomes like Confusionism.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:But then again, I stress this is of no importance to Buddhism.
Attain the state of Nibena. That is a supernatural state. What evidence did the Buddhist produced to show that this supernatural state is not imaginary and is backed up by evidence? None.
Buddhas, like the Christain God is also in hiding. The Buddhists claim that they are around but they cannot even produce one for all to see. At best we see man made statues that Buddhists worship.
Reincarnation... any evidence? nope other than some claims that some children remembers vaguely of having lived previously... these are not acceptable "evidence" you need to raise your standard a little. Evidence need to be indpendently verifiable; observed or reproduced.
You make certain claims and you tell me the proof. You tell me how to reproduce the proof for myself... that is acceptable evidence.
Not I did this and I did that or somebody did this and did that but sorry if you do it, you will not get the same results. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
Wrong. I have respect for Confucianism. It is a great philosophy. But it only dealt with worldly and moral issues. Buddhism isn't just about worldly and moral issues, but more importantly also on attaining the Wisdom of Liberation, the wisdom into the clear seeing of the nature of reality.
[b]
This goes straight to the credibility of Buddhism. What is Buddhism if not for the supernatural claims? It becomes like Confusionism.Attain the state of Nibena. That is a supernatural state. What evidence did the Buddhist produced to show that this supernatural state is only imaginary and not backed up by evidence? None.
Nirvana is not a supernatural state. In fact it is not even a state to begin with, because state implies a conditioned mental phenomena - that which Nirvana is not. There can be an endless list to what Nirvana is Not, but to assert what Nirvana is, is much more difficult. It is liberated bliss beyond conditionings, beyond time and space, etc. In fact it is very very simple - so simple that it doesn't even make sense to a usual mind!
Time and space is relative and only known in the analytical mind. In this moment, without any analysis and thoughts, just pure awareness, you have already transcended time and space.
But have you attained Nirvana? Not yet.... immediately you returned back to Samsara.
If you can, grab a copy of 'The Power of Now' by Eckhart Tolle. Such concepts will become clearer to you as you read. It is also very inspiring and transformative. It is not very philosophical and does not contain much belief systems so people like you should be able to read it. When you are stressed/depressed you can also read it. Eckhart Tolle is a mystic however he does not come from the Buddhist tradition. He does not come from any traditions, in fact. However he does quote Buddha, Jesus, Bhagavad Gita (Hindu), Tao Te Ching (Taoist) from time to time.Eckhart Tolle is emerging as one of the most original and inspiring spiritual teachers of our time. He travels and teaches throughout the world.
Also see: Eckhart Tolle
Eckhart is not aligned with any particular religion or tradition, but excludes none. His profound yet simple and practical teachings have helped thousands of people find inner peace and greater fulfillment in their lives. At the core of his teachings lies the transformation of individual and collective human consciousness - a global spiritual awakening.
Eckhart was born in Germany and educated at the Universities of London and Cambridge. At the age of twenty-nine, a profound spiritual transformation virtually dissolved his old identity and radically changed the course of his life. The next few years were devoted to understanding, integrating and deepening that transformation and marked the beginning of an intense inward journey. Later, he began to work with individuals and small groups as a counselor and spiritual teacher.
Eckhart Tolle is the author of The Power of Now, a #1 New York Times best-seller which has been widely recognized as one of the most influential spiritual books of our time. It has been translated into over 30 languages.
I am not a dharma teacher. You need to find an enlightened teacher to guide you. It is truly possible.Buddhas, like the Christain God is also in hiding. The Buddhists claim that they are around but they cannot even produce one for all to see. At best we see man made statues that Buddhists worship.
All forms are illusions
Like I said, Buddhists do not worship Buddha.
Do you know right now Buddha is not seperate from us? Buddha is not to be seen as just a person - but its ESSENCE. The Buddha Nature in us is already complete and perfect, but due to our illusions it is covered up.
“He who sees me (Buddha) in forms or seeks me in sounds is on a heterodox path and cannot see the Tathagata (Buddha).”
"All forms are but illusions; in seeing that all forms are illusory, then one sees the Tathagata." - Diamond Sutra
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The mind, the Buddha, living creatures - these are not three different things.
—Avatamasaka Sutra
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In fact even in Christianity, there is a deeper essence of their teachings, that which is known as Mysticism, although many Christians have a narrow interpretation of something that is actually much deeper. And of course in the other gospels known as the Gnostic gospels like Gospel of Thomas, it has a lot of wisdom of mysticism which have similarities to the teachings of Buddhism. Uncountable mystics have already attained the same sort of realisations - not only in Christian mysticism, but also the Islam Sufi (islamic mysticism), Taoism, Hindus, New Age etc etc. Lots more. Have you watched Gospel of Judas on National Geographic?Reincarnation... any evidence? nope other than some claims that some children remembers vaguely of having lived previously... these are not acceptable "evidence" you need to raise your standard a little. Evidence need to be indpendently verifiable; observed or reproduced.
Oh well... we discussed this in the previous topic already. I am not sure how can reincarnation be independantly verifiable, observed or reproduced. But do look into Ian Stevenson's research.
You tell me certain things you tell me the proof you tell me how to reproduce the proof for myself... that is acceptable evidence.
Not I did this and I did that or somebody did this and did that but sorry if you do it, you will not get the same results.
Nice chat. I got to go now - let the other forummers reply you further. My mid year exams are near so I dont have time to discuss with you for now. -
I now have better insights after reading your this post and the posts of the Christians earlier today.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Oh well... we discussed this in the previous topic already. I am not sure how can reincarnation be independantly verifiable, observed or reproduced. But do look into Ian Stevenson's research.
Nice chat. I got to go now - let the other forummers reply you further. My mid year exams are near so I dont have time to discuss with you for now.
Christianity and Buddhism based on your answers are so successful because you have develop over the years many ways to "escape" having to face reality.
When people ask you for good evidence to back up your claims, you have so many excuses it is unbelievable.
At the end of the day, all your claims are "explained" away instead of proven. -
Excuses? I dont think I have made a single excuse in my post.Originally posted by casino_king:I now have better insights after reading your this post and the posts of the Christians earlier today.
Christianity and Buddhism based on your answers are so successful because you have develop over the years many ways to "escape" having to face reality.
When people ask you for good evidence to back up your claims, you have so many excuses it is unbelievable.
At the end of the day, all your claims are "explained" away instead of proven. -
Buddhist practise is about facing reality, and dropping all resistance to what IS. Now.
Christianity and Buddhism based on your answers are so successful because you have develop over the years many ways to "escape" having to face reality. -
Why not?for Buddhism encourages intelligent doubting and believes in the potential supremacy of the individual.From the intellectual and philosophical content of Buddhism rose the freedom of thought and inquiry unparalleled by any other established world religion or philosophy. Though the Buddha urges us to consider His teachings, there is no obligation or compulsion whatsoever to believe or accept any Buddhist doctrine.Also buddha did not want followers who believed Him blindly; He wants us to think and understand for ourselves.Originally posted by casino_king:Absolutely true. It is based not not reality and so if you discuss it openly, then it will fail because it cannot stand the truth of reality.
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And yet you are still making comments based on your narrow minded perception.U should do some research and study on buddhism so tat we could discuss something more "deep" Come on show us some wisdom hereOriginally posted by casino_king:We have gone through this part the last time and I do not wish to do it all over again. -
Buddhism never found the need to give new interpretations to its teachings. Newly verified scientific discoveries never contradict the teachings of the Buddha as the method and teachings of Buddhism are scientific. BuddhismÂ’s principles can be maintained under any circumstances without changing its basic ideas. The understanding capacity of the value of these religious ideas may diminish and disappear from ManÂ’s Mind. And Man may experience the difficulty of practicing these principles in a corrupted society. However, the value of the BuddhaÂ’s teaching will be appreciated by every cultured and understanding person at any time. As complimented by Albert Einstein (Physicist and Mathematician), winner of the Nobel Prize, who is popularly regarded as the most outstanding scientist of the twentieth century,Originally posted by casino_king:If you are like the christians and claim that you can see and know after you are dead... well maybe you can claim that "spirituality cannot be comprehended by simple logic and thoughts. We will have to see it for ourselves."
You are saying that here and now in this physical world, people can see and do things that are supernatural but even though you are talking about here and now and living people, you fail to produce any evidence of that and you simply believe it.
I am so tired of debating with religious people becuase you people have such low standards. Anything is acceptable as evidence as long as you choose to believe it.
"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual and a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description... If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism."
Mi oso tired of awakening narrow minded pple like you -
Originally posted by casino_king:
Nirvana is the ground of being, the substance of all that is. For example, a wave does not have to "die" in order to become water. Water is the substance of the wave. The wave is already water. We are also likewise. We carry in us the ground of inter-being (inter-connectedness), Nirvana, the "world" beyond birth and death, permanence and impermanence, self and non-self. Nirvana is the complete silencing of concepts and phenomena - True Peace. Nirvana is the ground of all that is, just as waves do not exists out of water. If you know how to touch the waves, you know how to touch water at the same time. Nirvana does not exist separate of[b] Anicca and Anattá. . If you know how to use them to touch reality, you touch Nirvana in the here and the now.
This goes straight to the credibility of Buddhism. What is Buddhism if not for the supernatural claims? It becomes like Confusionism.
Attain the state of Nibena. That is a supernatural state. What evidence did the Buddhist produced to show that this supernatural state is not imaginary and is backed up by evidence? None.
Dun think you know the meaning of Anicca and Anattá..Go and do some research on them(I don want to spoon feed you )
Nirvana is the extinction of all notions. Birth and death are notions. Being and non-being are notions. In our daily lives, we have to deal with these relative realities. But if we touch life more deeply, reality will reveal itself in a different way. When you understand Anicca and Anattá, you are already free of much suffering and in touch with Nirvana. Nirvana is not something you look for in the future. As a Dharma Seal, it is present in every one of the Buddha's teachings. Nirvana is not the absence of life. Nirvana can be found in this very life. Nirvana means the pacifying, silencing or extinguishment of the fire of suffering. Nirvana teaches that we are already what we want to become within. We don't have to run after anything anymore. We only need to return to ourselves and touch or true nature. When we do this, we will have real peace and joy. -
[quote]Originally posted by casino_king:
Buddhas, like the Christain God is also in hiding. The Buddhists claim that they are around but they cannot even produce one for all to see. At best we see man made statues that Buddhists worship.
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Again Mr CASINO has exposed himself showing us that he totally know nothing abt buddhism and his remarks are based on his ignorance
Christianity is based upon certain supposed historical events (the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc), the only record of which is an allegedly reliable document called the Bible. However when we examine the teachings of the Buddha we find an entirely different situation. Even if we were able to prove that the Buddha never existed or that there were mistakes in the Buddhist scriptures this would in no way undermine Buddhism. And why? Because Buddhism is not primarily about the historical Buddha or about events which happened in the past; rather, it is about human suffering, what causes that suffering, and how it can be overcome so that humans can be free, happy and radiant.If we wish to verify or understand Buddhism we don't pick through scriptures squabbling about the meaning of words or phrases; rather, we become sensitive to our own experience.
I sugguest u read Uniqueness of buddhism
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=185088 -
Reincarnation? What Reincarnation? Is REBIRTH NOT Reincarnation my fren Don worry will post topic regarding this at a later timeOriginally posted by casino_king:Reincarnation... any evidence? nope other than some claims that some children remembers vaguely of having lived previously... these are not acceptable "evidence" you need to raise your standard a little. Evidence need to be indpendently verifiable; observed or reproduced.
You make certain claims and you tell me the proof. You tell me how to reproduce the proof for myself... that is acceptable evidence.
Not I did this and I did that or somebody did this and did that but sorry if you do it, you will not get the same results. -
casino king needs to read The Power of Now
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Buddhism is a religion, which always encourages man to face the facts of life without depending on imaginary concepts, and to accept the truth wherever it may be. Therefore, Buddhists do not reject the facts pertaining to worldly matters as discovered by great thinkers and scientists. Although the Buddha paid more attention to spiritual development, He never neglected manÂ’s worldly progress.Originally posted by casino_king:I now have better insights after reading your this post and the posts of the Christians earlier today.
Christianity and Buddhism based on your answers are so successful because you have develop over the years many ways to "escape" having to face reality.
When people ask you for good evidence to back up your claims, you have so many excuses it is unbelievable.
At the end of the day, all your claims are "explained" away instead of proven.
I donÂ’t know where youÂ’re attitude towards Buddhism comes from but it isnÂ’t an uncommon dismissal.Perhaps it is your upbringing, perhaps it is just what youÂ’ve been exposed to, I couldnÂ’t say. Unlike other faiths, Buddhism doesnÂ’t expect someone to come save you. There is no God or Messiah that will do things for you. There is no rescue party on the way. It is up to each of us to save ourselves and then to save each other.
Buddhism doesn’t teach the being human is “an awful and miserable state.” It teaches that nothing is permanent, period. Your pain? It’s not permanent. Your happiness? It’s not permanent either. Your family? Nope. Your life? Not at all. But, regardless of that, you desire that everything should be permanent. You don’t want things to end because you want the good things to last. Except, of course, they don’t and it leaves the taste of ashes in your mouth. This is the suffering that we all experience if we live very long at all. Heck, even your very “self” isn’t permanent and is not, when you really look, even there. It’s like smoke and it cannot be grabbed or even seen if you look closely enough.
The BuddhaÂ’s answer to this was that there was a way to learn to not grasp after things, to not be pulled in by the con game. It is also a revelation that the lack of inherent existence (because nothing lasts and nothing has ever lasted) is actually liberating if you learn how to deal with it.
Come on mr casino i expect questions with "substance" from you.I think you can do better than that...In the mean time ...
Next better player pls -
Having a religion itself is like having a spiritual life, that cannot be explained, discussed, justified by any logic.
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hmm....
I still stand for this:
To bend our faith to fit the facts than to bend the facts to fit the faith.
Amitabha