Buddhism cannot be discussed openly?
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you can understand what others are trying to say meh when they are helping & guiding you?Originally posted by casino_king:I am so glad all my effort debating you is paying off...
So tell me, personally how do you handle the unproven beliefs inherent in Buddhism?
in what position are u to say that your effort in debating is paying off. you are still clinging on to your own ignorance and misconception. you said you were curious, but it is obvious u taking this forum as an excuse to criticise, ridicule and be rude in your inquiries. don't come and say again what is forum for this and that. obvious is obvious and stop shielding. or is it you are a tongue twister or say one thing and then do another thing? it won't do u any good at all to be rude to religions by criticing in your inquiries. in the end it is you the one a laughing stock. -
Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
You mean your version of Buddhism.
Hi [b]Mr Casino,
buddhism is not wat you think.I would like to intro this book to you for reading so that you will have a better understanding of what buddhism is really abt.I think that only after you gain a better understanding of buddhism then will our discussion be more productive and meaningful.
Buddhism Plain & Simple
Author: Steve Hagen
You could borrow it from the libraries in singapore
may u have peace
[/b]
If you are talking about western stlye Buddhism, I agree that it does not have as many superstitious beliefs and teaching as eastern version of Buddhism. Just look at the posts in this thread and you will see what I mean. No need to go outside... if you go outside, you will faint. -
Please Casino King, discuss, and disagree by all means, but do not mock. It is not constructive.Originally posted by casino_king:Just playing with the fengshui guy... here we are talking about discarding superstitious beliefs and they he goes introducing fengshui. -
Please don't be so sensitive. But I will try.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:Please Casino King, discuss, and disagree by all means, but do not mock. It is not constructive. -
buddhism is buddhism.Btw...as i have said that problem in the East is that buddhism is so laden with rituals and tied in to cultures by folk traditions that the dharma is often obscured. The west are finding a real movement toward a strong lay practice that is based on the simplicity of the dharma without much of the cultural baggage carried by eastern traditionsOriginally posted by casino_king:You mean your version of Buddhism. If you are talking about western stlye Buddhism, I agree that it does not have as many superstitious beliefs and teaching as eastern version of Buddhism. Just look at the posts in this thread and you will see what I mean. No need to go outside... if you go outside, you will faint. -
Originally posted by neutral_onliner:buddhism is buddhism.Btw...as i have said that problem in the East is that buddhism is [b]so laden with rituals and tied in to cultures by folk traditions that the dharma is often obscured. The west are finding a real movement toward a strong lay practice that is based on the simplicity of the dharma without much of the cultural baggage carried by eastern traditions
[/b][/quote]
but you believe in rebirth? karma that extends from past lives to futures lives? people can become enlightened AND acquire supernatural powers on enlightenment? people can enter into nirvada?
or do you think Buddhism is based on reality and:
[quote]Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
We are [b]encouraged to think for ourselves. Buddhism is not dogmatic, depends on reason, does not expect blind faith, does not contradict science.
http://www.thubtenchodron.org/AudioLibrary/audio_OtherArticles/WhyBuddhism_1-4_19.ram
We are encouraged to integrate the teachings into our life. Buddhism provides a step-by-step method for working with our mind to achieve internal peace.
http://www.thubtenchodron.org/AudioLibrary/audio_OtherArticles/WhyBuddhism_2-4_21.ram
We have the power and ability to change our lives - we create the causes for what we experience. Everybody is equal; nobody is inherently evil. Emphasizes respect for all religions and their followers. Shows how to go beyond the happiness and suffering of this life.
http://www.thubtenchodron.org/AudioLibrary/audio_OtherArticles/WhyBuddhism_3-4_24.ram -
Originally posted by casino_king:
like for example, history has it that people don't use to know that earth is round, or man can fly, go underwater, go to space...etcs...now we know earth is round as a fact, man invented aeroplane, submarine, rockets. they tried an error. people used to disbelieve like u becas they don't know, but doesn't mean it wouldn't be proven in time to come. in buddhism concept, almost anything it's possible to be found, if one put the mind to it.
This one I must reply... nobody who accepts evidence "becomes embarass." Show me the evidence and I will accept it... .
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People also believed that lightning was the work of Zeus... sickness was caused by all sorts of nonsense.... and the Christians believe a lot of stuff and so by your logic, we should take all beliefs seriously because who knows? One day they might be proven correct. You get it now?Originally posted by sinweiy:like for example, history has it that people don't use to know that earth is round, or man can fly, go underwater, go to space...etcs...now we know earth is round as a fact, man invented aeroplane, submarine, rockets. they tried an error. people used to disbelieve like u becas they don't know, but doesn't mean it wouldn't be proven in time to come. in buddhism concept, almost anything it's possible to be found, if one put the mind to it.
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Without the evidence and the experiements to prove the hypothesis, we put it in boxes called: Hallucination; Delusion; Superstitions; Fantasy; Imagination; Speculation and at best, a Hypothesis.
We do not act on it until the evidence comes in. I hope you are intellectually able to appreciate this point. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
yes..tis why we stressed don't act on it too soon for some of the "possible" claims. claims like consciousness don't just end with death for eg.
People also believed that lightning was the work of Zeus... sickness was caused by all sorts of nonsense.... and the Christians believe a lot of stuff and so by your logic, we should take all beliefs seriously because who knows? One day they might be proven correct. You get it now?
Without the evidence and the experiements to prove the hypothesis, we put it in boxes called: Hallucination; Delusion; Superstitions; Fantasy; Imagination; Speculation and at best, a Hypothesis.
We do not act on it until the evidence comes in. I hope you are intellectually able to appreciate this point.
it's proven in a minority, spreading into the majority. don't wait make a fool out of oneself when it become common reality.
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see what i'm trying to tell u...ur statments have exposed ur misconception of buddhism.As i have already advise u to make a proper study oso it will be good if u attend dharma talks.Dharma talk is veri interesting becos the teaching of buddhism required asking,questioning,debating(constructive way Ofcos)Learning how to apply buddhism in our daily life.Originally posted by casino_king:
U see my frend it no use debating in tis forum it a waste of time .nothing will come out of this.It will be good for u to go to the proper channel to understand the essence of buddhism and then see for yourself.(if you r serious and sincere) Ofcos if ur motive is just to create a" hoohaa "here for ur own entertainment then i think u will not listen to my advise. -
The Christians, the Muslims and the Hindus and the the the... all the rests says the samne thing as you... most of it is contradicting as well.Originally posted by sinweiy:yes..tis why we stressed don't act on it too soon for some of the "possible" claims. claims like consciousness don't just end with death for eg.
it's proven in a minority, spreading into the majority. don't wait make a fool out of oneself when it become common reality.
/\
The Christians say... when Jesus comes again it is too late for you. The Muslims call everyone else "infidels;" the Hindus; the Roman Catholics; the evengelical Christians; they all claim superiority.
For your own sanity you must act based on valid grounds and not on .... you know, I don't want to repeat. BTW they all claim also that you must try it before you can judge it like your friend neutral_onliner -
i still don't get to see the point in debating over various religions when someone is so stuck in his own bloody ego, stubbornness and deep inflexibility of ignorance. what does all these ignorant questions from a stubborn bull lead to when others are trying to guide and explain nicely. still fall on deaf ears. casino king, don't be so egoisitic and stubborn lah. what goes around comes around. be nice and respectful in your approach. people are not blind, its just that the blind is you who can't se the picture in front of you.
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I notice that you do not contribute anything at all to the discussion? Do you know what the issues that are being discussed? Do you take Buddha's words seriously when he said not to take his words dogmatically but to question anything and everything. In fact he even said to discard what he says if it is not useful.Originally posted by paperflower:i still don't get to see the point in debating over various religions when someone is so stuck in his own bloody ego, stubbornness and deep inflexibility of ignorance. what does all these ignorant questions from a stubborn bull lead to when others are trying to guide and explain nicely. still fall on deaf ears. casino king, don't be so egoisitic and stubborn lah. what goes around comes around. be nice and respectful in your approach. people are not blind, its just that the blind is you who can't se the picture in front of you.
This is what we are doing. Trying to struggle with what Buddhism really means in this day and age. It is pointless to debate with other Buddhists or in a monastery. Whether they like it or not, whether they acknowledge it or not, I can see very clearly that Buddhists are not willing, unable, feels disrespectful when they question Buddhism itself like what I am doing.... pardon me for saying so but I feel more in tune with the spirit of Buddha doing this than you people who refuses to consider that which cannot be considered. And that is questioning Buddha's teaching in the light of what has developed 2550 years after he last walked on earth.
He is able to ask his disciples to question his own teaching because he was Buddha.... but you people seems to me have a very strong reluctance to do that. If we can discard as Buddha suggested those claims made by Buddhists over the thousands of years that lack evidence and concentrate on what is remaining... that to me would be to distill the essence of Buddhism; but I realise a reluctance and a fear among the Buddhists here to do that. So you conveniently say that I approach this debate from ignorance and misunderstanding of Buddhist teachings. That might be true or it could be "fear factor" to confront the truth. -
you don't come and give me all these craps! because what u say all don't ring any bell and your statements don't hold weight & substance at all.... yes. are u sure or not huh u discussing?! don't give me that crap as an excuse lah. one point u criticising then another point you say discussing....?! what a tongue twister! you the one lack concentration and focus and keep being stubborn and wanna argue and demand this demand that for evidence this and that. you think you very good example in "discussion" huh? my foot! - this karma i will bear the fruit because i can't help it must throw the water into your face! what contribution? other people give so much contribution and links for you yet you don't show any appreciation and keep mocking in your own point of perception. u call this discussion and questioning? first of all are u respectful or not? huh? bring what grandmother grandfather topic into discussion and then just criticise others for having fantasy or imagination! u call this discussion? u are criticising just base on your stubborn views. whether u believe or not, you should just respect and not loudly mocking away. u are mocking at what the elightened people had discovered. guidelines are there to follow and discover and if u can't discover then don't say its fantasy or imaginations. contribute, so far did u sincerely humbly respectfully appreciate? i don't think so. i obeserve each time people try to contribute or guide u, u sure have opposition or some challenging questions. tell u the truth your questions didn't sound intelligent at all, they look more like ignorant questions out of your stubbornness to respect.Originally posted by casino_king:I notice that you do not contribute anything at all to the discussion? Do you know what the issues that are being discussed? Do you take Buddha's words seriously when he said not to take his words dogmatically but to question anything and everything. In fact he even said to discard what he says if it is not useful.
This is what we are doing. Trying to struggle with what Buddhism really means in this day and age. It is pointless to debate with other Buddhists or in a monastery. Whether they like it or not, whether they acknowledge it or not, I can see very clearly that Buddhists are not willing, unable, feels disrespectful when they question Buddhism itself like what I am doing.... pardon me for saying so but I feel more in tune with the spirit of Buddha doing this than you people who refuses to consider that which cannot be considered. And that is questioning Buddha's teaching in the light of what has developed 2550 years after he last walked on earth.
He is able to ask his disciples to question his own teaching because he was Buddha.... but you people seems to me have a very strong reluctance to do that. If we can discard as Buddha suggested those claims made by Buddhists over the thousands of years that lack evidence and concentrate on what is remaining... that to me would be to distill the essence of Buddhism; but I realise a reluctance and a fear among the Buddhists here to do that. So you conveniently say that I approach this debate from ignorance and misunderstanding of Buddhist teachings. That might be true or it could be "fear factor" to confront the truth. -
**makes mental note to ignore paperflower**Originally posted by paperflower:you don't come and give me all these craps! -
Originally posted by casino_king:**makes mental note to ignore paperflower**
like i'd care. see how long u can ignore. words are to be honoured you know... -
ever draft out the problems it may cause, if ppl were to fixed the thinking that when one die...all is over idea?. they would do what ever they wish like nobody's business. ppl without religion are also increasing over the years. overall criminal offense is shooting up.
lucky we still have common law to protect people. if not , canÂ’t imagine.
this is when religions of the world, if practice accordingly from saints have it's usage and advantages.
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Post in "Ang Moh" BuddhistsOriginally posted by casino_king:You mean your version of Buddhism. If you are talking about western stlye Buddhism, I agree that it does not have as many superstitious beliefs and teaching as eastern version of Buddhism. Just look at the posts in this thread and you will see what I mean. No need to go outside... if you go outside, you will faint.
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Those who practise deity worship and folks traditions are more towards Taoism - even though they may worship Buddha and Guan Yin. This is because Chinese Folks practitioners can worship any being they think are divine.Originally posted by DriftingGuy:Yeah.. I kinda prefer the western intepretation of buddhism rather than the joss-stick perception...
Actually, quite a few mixed taoism with buddhism as well. Some pray to Buddha but also to Guan Gong as well as other idols of worship.
There is still a lot of ignorance of Buddhism. By worshipping Buddha, they did not mix Taoism with Buddhism, it is not even Buddhism at all. Buddhists don't even worship the Buddha and Buddha is not a god. Similarly if they pray to Jesus, they are by no means a Christian.
There is actually no difference between Western interpretation of Buddhism and the Eastern interpretation of Buddhism - it is either Buddhism, or Not buddhism. A Buddhist can only be considered a Buddhist after taking refuge in the Three Treasures, Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. -
You see if you want religion to survive; then it must change and move with the times... when new evidence appears on the horizon then the religion looks at it seriously and makes the necessary changes and amendments. Buddhism's teachings allows it to move with the times but the disciples of Buddha here refuses to heed his words when he said to discard his teaching when it becomes useless and no longer applicable.Originally posted by sinweiy:ever draft out the problems it may cause, if ppl were to fixed the thinking that when one die...all is over idea?. they would do what ever they wish like nobody's business. ppl without religion are also increasing over the years. overall criminal offense is shooting up.
lucky we still have common law to protect people. if not , canÂ’t imagine.
this is when religions of the world, if practice accordingly from saints have it's usage and advantages.
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The Pope of the Catholic Church met with the Dalai Lama and click on
Catholic leaders send greetings for Buddha's birth
The Roman Catholic Church is the largest Christian denomination because it has an acknowledged "representative of Christ" on earth; the pope.
The pope can then move with the times... and not be stuck with 2000 year old theology. As far as Buddha was concerned, he said that he was not the first and would not be the last. He said that his teaching must be relevant.
That is to say, a future "Buddha" must be recognised and this new Buddha's teaching will then become the "relevant" teaching.
I tell you that if the Roman Catholic on the strenght of what the Pope says as representative of Christ is able to modernised the church constantly and Buddhism still clings on to 2000 year old teachings and do not recognise the "present day" Buddha... you will surely lose out to the Roman Catholics. Of course as far as I am concern, it makes no difference whether RC of Buddhists or Hindus.
It was fortunate for Buddhism that it caught on in the west and the western practioners are not so tied down with the ancient concepts and find it easier to take what Buddha said at face value and updating the teachings of Buddha for the present age. -
So can increase forum rating!Originally posted by maggot:Casino_king is a very interesting person
So do let us know more -
None of the truths Buddha taught are unfounded - and eventually you will realise it yourself. What we need to do, is to take note of it. There is no need to believe it completely until we see ourselves. But neither should a person be obstructed by sceptism - the key word here is Open Mind.Originally posted by casino_king:This one I must reply... nobody who accepts evidence "becomes embarass." Show me the evidence and I will accept it... otherwise... go through your own thoughts and meditate (contemplative) if you remove all the Buddhist claims that are not well founded... what are you left with? It is better to face reality... you will come closer to the truth. -
Unlike Monotheistic religions, there is nothing in Buddhism to catch up with modern times. Buddhism and Buddhist practises continue to be completely relevant even in modern times - especially since Buddha's way is very scientific and systematic even 2500 years ago. There is no dogmas, and nothing that is disproved and discredited by modern science.Originally posted by casino_king:You see if you want religion to survive; then it must change and move with the times... when new evidence appears on the horizon then the religion looks at it seriously and makes the necessary changes and amendments. Buddhism's teachings allows it to move with the times but the disciples of Buddha here refuses to heed his words when he said to discard his teaching when it becomes useless and no longer applicable.
The Pope of the Catholic Church met with the Dalai Lama and click on
Catholic leaders send greetings for Buddha's birth
The Roman Catholic Church is the largest Christian denomination because it has an acknowledged "representative of Christ" on earth; the pope.
The pope can then move with the times... and not be stuck with 2000 year old theology. As far as Buddha was concerned, he said that he was not the first and would not be the last. He said that his teaching must be relevant.
That is to say, a future "Buddha" must be recognised and this new Buddha's teaching will then become the "relevant" teaching.
I tell you that if the Roman Catholic on the strenght of what the Pope says as representative of Christ is able to modernised the church constantly and Buddhism still clings on to 2000 year old teachings and do not recognise the "present day" Buddha... you will surely lose out to the Roman Catholics. Of course as far as I am concern, it makes no difference whether RC of Buddhists or Hindus.
It was fortunate for Buddhism that it caught on in the west and the western practioners are not so tied down with the ancient concepts and find it easier to take what Buddha said at face value and updating the teachings of Buddha for the present age.
One thing that Buddhism is very flexible in - its culture and adapting to society throughout 2500 years of history. But the teachings remained the same. -
He was refering to this one, I believe:Originally posted by maggot:Are you refering to the Poison arrow of fengshui?
By his silence Shakyamuni wanted to divert our attention from fruitless questions to the all-important task before us: solving life's problems and living a life which would bring happiness to self as well as others.
To a follower who insisted on knowing, "Is there a God?", Shakyamuni replied with the parable of the poison arrow. "if you were shot by a poison arrow, and a doctor was summoned to extract it, what would you do? Would you ask such questions as who shot the arrow, from which tribe did he come, who made the arrow, who made the poison, etc., or would you have the doctor immediately pull out the arrow?"
"Of course," replied the man, "I would have the arrow pulled out as quickly as possible." The Buddha concluded, "That is wise O disciple, for the task before us is the solving of life's problems; when that is done, you may still ask the questions you put before me, if you so desire." -
That's what you say... from your perspective you cannot really see... I am telling you... the reality now is that the Roman Catholic Church is more in tune with Buddha's teaching on discarding 2000 + year old teachings and understandings.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Unlike Monotheistic religions, there is nothing in Buddhism to catch up with modern times. Buddhism and Buddhist practises continue to be completely relevant even in modern times - especially since Buddha's way is very scientific and systematic even 2500 years ago. There is no dogmas, and nothing that is disproved and discredited by modern science.
On the one hand you say yes Buddha said apply his teaching if relevant... the next minute you say Buddha's teaching can never be wrong... you are so blind.
cannot blame you.. people can always see others better than themselves... like when you write, the editor can spot mistakes that are so obvious but us hidden from you because you are the one who wrote it. -
I never said it cannot be wrong.Originally posted by casino_king:That's what you say... from you perspective you cannot really see... I am telling you... the reality now is that the Roman Catholic Church is more in tune with Buddha's teaching on discarding 2000 + year old teachings and understandings.
On the one hand you say yes Buddha said apply his teaching if relevant... the next minute you say Buddha's teaching can never be wrong... you are so blind.
I said it was never wrong so far.
Also - I doubt Roman Catholic teachings have discarded much of their teachings. What they discarded so far are things that are Discredit and Disproven by science.
For example, Christians recently still believed that the Earth was created some 7000 years ago - this is outrightly wrong and is disproven by science. Therefore the Christians will have to accept it.
But in Buddhism, there is nothing that is against what scientists found.