Buddhism cannot be discussed openly?
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jiao lang gong jiao wei is like that one. so unreliable say one thing do another thing.Originally posted by casino_king:For example right here in ~ Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss ~ It's no wonder some Buddhists here have nothing to contribute to this thread other than to flame. I think other than superstitions their brains are incapable of reasoning.
*yawn* see told u.... see how long u can ignore me, casino_king. though it is indirectly, it is still quoting my thread.
u wanna reason go and reason all you want. i see nothing only emptiness and a waste of time to talk to a dummy rock. like i'd care you flaming who and who or assuming kena flame. hahaa.... end up you not focus in your consistency but affected by what people say. i think you don't how to write the word "honour". -
Blog topics: Liberal religion, mysticism, feminism, pacifism, doubt, religion book reviews, Mormonism.Originally posted by casino_king:CLICK HERE:we need to have the wisdom to discern which teachings are still applicable to us today, which need to be adapted, and which need to be discarded completely. if necessary, we need to have the courage to discard the raft:
I told you to quote Buddha, I am not interested in what others may think - ignorantly.
In Buddhism we SHOULD NOT discard the raft until we reach the other shore - otherwise we will sink in the middle of the ocean. -
Let me give you a brief introduction of this sutra. This whole sutra discourse took place in Trayastrimsas Heaven - the only sutra discourse to have taken place outside planet Earth. Therefore all kinds of beings and spiritual beings - in Chinese we call them Tian Long Ba Bu gathers to listen to Buddha's discourse. Why? Because Buddha's mother died 7 days and was reborn in Trayastrimsas Heaven after Buddha was born, and after Buddha attain enlightenment he wants to repayOriginally posted by casino_king:For example right here in ~ Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss ~ It's no wonder some Buddhists here have nothing to contribute to this thread other than to flame. I think other than superstitions their brains are incapable of reasoning.
his mother's kindness by teaching her the Dharma.
This entire sutra was a real record of what has taken place in Trayastrimsas Heaven, but since you have doubts that Trayastrimsas Heaven exists, you do not have to be too concerned - one day through your cultivation you will witness for yourself that these realms. Remember to keep an open mind, and not fall into the extremes of sceptical doubts.
The true superstition is dogmatic assumptions - like what I said, you can go back in time 400 years ago and tell the others that the world is round and everyone will think you're insane. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
Why are you so concerned about those things that Buddhists are not concerned about? We are not concerned too much about the supernatural. Whether you believe it or not doesnt really matter very much. What is most important is the 4 nobles truths, the 8 fold path, this is what Buddhists are concerned about, not those supernatural things! Other supernatural things that we cannot perceive now - in the future will verify whether they are true or false, but right now, the concerns is the liberation of human sufferings, mental afflictions, the concerns is about living a blissful life, practising the dharma in our lives and experiencing the highest bliss Nirvana.
I said that they article you quote saying that Buddhism follows the scientific method does not show that Budhhism is in tune with the scientific method [b] in many areas where fantastic claims are made in the name of Buddhism.Please read the article / example you provided for us and compare what was said to that in the wikipedia explanation of the scientific method.
I am asking you why Buddhists still cling on to these fantastic claims? Why can't they discard these claims as understanding and knowledge of a bygone era?[/b]
We cannot even say that these are knowledge of a bygone era, just because we do not have the capacities and abilities to verify for ourselves right now - because Buddha already taught us how it is possible to verify for ourselves through what he taught.
Things like, Trayastrimsa Heaven, like I mentioned in the other post, or anything supernatural, you can eventually verify for yourself that these places do exist as long as you cultivate according to Buddhism. But before that, one should take note of it, and maintain an open mind. Many many people has been to Trayastrimsa Heaven, for example, 1250 disciples of Buddha was attending the discourse at Trayatrimsa Heaven. So you cannot say that it definitely is a made up story. And similarly, since 1250 disciples can meet at Trayastrimsa Heaven means you also can go there one day. You cannot assert nor can you say that it did not happen. Science has neither proven nor disproven the existences of these realms, and our technology to look into the universe is still at its infancy. We do not even know right now for certain whether life exists in other parts of the universe and beyond. The Buddha's answer is Yes, that is his own experience and his own seeing, so just take note of it, and in the future you will be able to verify what Buddha said is true or false.
It is interesting to note, that when Buddha spoke to the Kalamas, he spoke to them in the Kalamas' capacity to comprehend his truths - as since the Kalamas could not comprehend whether rebirth exists, Buddha mentioned...
Exerpt from Dogmatism? Blind Faith? The Kalamas are Disillusioned
....."Now, Kalamas, one who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires four assurances in the here-&-now:
"'If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.' This is the first assurance he acquires.
"'But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble.' This is the second assurance he acquires.
"'If evil is done through acting, still I have willed no evil for anyone. Having done no evil action, from where will suffering touch me?' This is the third assurance he acquires.
"'But if no evil is done through acting, then I can assume myself pure in both respects.' This is the fourth assurance he acquires.
"One who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires these four assurances in the here-&-now."
"So it is, Blessed One. So it is, O One Well-gone. One who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires four assurances in the here-&-now:
"'If there is a world after death, if there is the fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then this is the basis by which, with the break-up of the body, after death, I will reappear in a good destination, the heavenly world.' This is the first assurance he acquires.
"'But if there is no world after death, if there is no fruit of actions rightly & wrongly done, then here in the present life I look after myself with ease — free from hostility, free from ill will, free from trouble.' This is the second assurance he acquires.... (continued in the webpage) -
You see there is a problem here... there was no scientific method 2550 years ago. There was no way to test and experiment and find out the validity of "claims." There is the issue of telling people what they understood and believed 2550 years ago.[/b]
Like I mentioned before:
As seen in the topic 'Dogmatism? Blind Faith? The Kalamas are Disillusioned', true contemplatives do not need to depend on scientific reports. If it were otherwise, for 2500 years, of which a large period of time there is lack of modern science, nobody would have become enlightened. Buddhism is not a religion, neither is it just a philosophy or an academic subject. It reveals truths beyond theories and comprehension of the mind. A person of high caliber (as have been seen in Albert Einstein) will not limit himself solely to science to understand the universe -- not everything is measurable and quantifiable. There is absolutely no need for us to prove anything - if we cultivate the dharma we will see for ourselves.
And also, I mentioned, Buddhism is also a kind of Science with its own method of 'experimenting' and finding out the validity through meditation.
For example to try to use 'Biology' to prove 'Physics' which are two different subjects is quite difficult and not the best way of finding out the truths. -
So we have come to the end of my debate here; I maintain that we must not blindly accept as truth just because it comes from authoritative sources like "sutras." The Christians have their own sutra - the Bible and the Muslims have their own "sutra" the Koran... and they all say the same thing like what you said here... just wait and see; believe and you will find out for yourself. I am trying to tell you that Buddhism is better but in your own mind, you have put Buddhism on par with the other religions.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Like I mentioned before:
You are using a computer to type your posts... that you are able to do that is due directly to the scientific method. Yet you choose to cling to "beliefs" and take it at face value even though there are no basis for those beliefs in the light of the principles laid down by the scientific method.
Buddha himself forsaw people like you and told you to discard the raft once you cross the river in your search for enlightenment... but you take it as discard only after having arrived at the destination... why discard it if you had arrived using it? Give that raft to everybody because it works!
I really pity you. Clinging on to superstitions; the baseless beliefs. You will never arrive because you are pulling the old raft along with you even though you have crossed the river and have come to a super highway. You should be driving a sports car but there you are sitting on the raft in the middle of the super highway leading towards enlightenment.
I enjoyed debating here though, gave be more insights into Buddhism. -
Blog topics: Liberal religion, mysticism, feminism, pacifism, doubt, religion book reviews, Mormonism.Originally posted by casino_king:
So we have come to the end of my debate here; I maintain that we must not blindly accept as truth just because it comes from authoritative sources like "sutras."[/quote]
And how was I against that?The Christians have their own sutra - the Bible and the Muslims have their own "sutra" the Koran... and they all say the same thing like what you said here... just wait and see; believe and you will find out for yourself. I am trying to tell you that Buddhism is better but in your own mind, you have put Buddhism on par with the other religions.
I did not say 'wait and see' but 'see for yourself'/'verify for yourself'.
But before that, we must NOT make early conclusions and keep an open mind. Any problems with that?You are using a computer to type your posts... that you are able to do that is due directly to the scientific method. Yet you choose to cling to "beliefs" and take it at face value even though there are no basis for those beliefs in the light of the principles laid down by the scientific method.
Do I need to repeat myself so many times? Buddhism is a scientific method. I dont have to copy and paste myself all over again right?
Things like 'Biology' cannot be used to deal with the areas of 'physics'. Similarly things like 'Technology' cannot be used to deal with things that should belong to the realm of the mind and consciousness. It also, as of current, not able to prove whether other realms exist, or not.Buddha himself forsaw people like you and told you to discard the raft once you cross the river in your search for enlightenment... but you take it as discard only after having arrived at the destination... why discard it if you had arrived using it? Give that raft to everybody because it works!
You have not QUOTED for me what Buddha said regarding 'discarding the raft'.
Pls see my previous post before posting:
-----------------Originally posted by casino_king:
CLICK HERE:we need to have the wisdom to discern which teachings are still applicable to us today, which need to be adapted, and which need to be discarded completely. if necessary, we need to have the courage to discard the raft:
I told you to quote Buddha, I am not interested in what others may think - ignorantly.
In Buddhism we SHOULD NOT discard the raft until we reach the other shore - otherwise we will sink in the middle of the ocean.
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Secondly, I do not understand what you meant by 'why discard it if you had arrived using it? Give that raft to everybody because it works!'
Firstly, to get ONTO the other shore, it is necessary that you must finally let go of the method you use to arrive at the point of liberation. This is a high stage and for beginners like me, I still need the raft for my cultivation. But for someone on the verge on liberation, that's different. Its just like saying - you cannot possibly propel your raft even onto the land. For example if you practise meditation, eventually you will reach the state of non-meditation. If you practise a Koan, eventually the Koan, the Question, the Method will dissolve altogether, and what is left is your luminous Buddha Nature shining clearly.
Thought-Free Wakefulness (a website on meditation based on Vajrayana)
....Having perfected one taste through the levels of the lesser, medium and higher stages, the fourth yoga is nonmeditation. This is the point at which every type of conviction and the fixing of the attention on something completely dissolves. All convictions and habitual tendencies have dissolved and are left behind. One has captured the dharmakaya throne of nonmeditation.
In the beginning one needs to be convinced about how reality is: one needs to have confidence in the view. Ultimately, however, any form of conviction is still a subtle obscuration, still a hindrance. At the final stage of nonmeditation, all types of habitual tendencies and convictions need to be dissolved, left behind. There is nothing more to cultivate, nothing more to reach. One has arrived at the end of the path. All that needs to be purified has been purified. Karma, disturbing emotions and the habitual tendencies have all been cleared up, so that nothing is left.
The path is necessary as long as we have not arrived. The moment we arrive, however, the need for the road to get there has fallen away. As long as we are not at our destination, then it is also necessary to have the concept of path in order to get there. But once the destination has been reached, once whatever needs to be cultivated has been cultivated and whatever needs to be abandoned has been left behind, the whole need for path is over. That is what is meant by nonmeditation, literally non-cultivation. This is the dharmakaya [the formless body of ultimate reality, one of the three bodies (kayas) of Buddha] throne of nonmeditation. In Dzogchen, the exhaustion of all concepts and phenomena is the ultimate level of experience. This is the state of complete enlightenment. Both these levels of realization are equal to that of all buddhas...
Secondly, I do not see a lack of people who 'give that raft to everybody' - Buddha certainly did. And it is not only one raft, there are 84000 kinds of rafts, or 84000 medicines, dharma doors - whatever you call it, to treat the sentient mind. Even in present days, there is no lack of enlightened dharma teachers in the world teaching the dharmas to liberate humanity.
[quote]I really pity you. Clinging on to superstitions; the baseless beliefs. You will never arrive because you are pulling the old raft along with you even though you have crossed the river and have come to a super highway. You should be driving a sports car but there you are sitting on the raft in the middle of the super highway leading towards enlightenment.Do you even know what a raft means? Haha I doubt you do.
There are two ways to describe the Dharmas that Buddha taught - a medicine and a raft. A raft is just like a medicine, a Dharma used to treat the human mind - to destroy the mental afflictions and the sentient mind to awaken to our true self.
In terms of raft, we explain that it is a raft to lead us from our sufferings/Dukkha to awakening - which is the other shore.
It has nothing to do at all with the supernatural. For example just because a scientific report says 'This report is written in a place called ABC', and then someone weird just start doubting that the science report is written in ABC, and keep on claiming that ABC does not exist - and completely neglect what the scientific report is talking about. Similarly you are like that person, who discuss issues that people and Buddhists do not get concerned about. People are able to appreciate and gain something from the teachings of Ksitigarbha Sutra, but all you are concerned is the place that sutra discourse took place
But you are right that Buddhists should focus on the practical aspects of Buddhism rather on things that we cannot yet verify. And as to those things that we cannot yet verify as we practise what the Buddha taught we will be able to verify for ourselves. There is absolutely no 'clinging to beliefs and superstitions' involved.I enjoyed debating here though, gave be more insights into Buddhism.
Do feel welcome to discuss on the forum again.
Lastly if you can, do get the book that Neutral Onliner recommend you and also 'The Power of Now' by Eckhart Tolle.
I believe our next discussion will be more purposeful and meaningful if you can understand the true practise of Buddhism in life. -
well i think alot of us have been trying to explain to Mr Casino that he is taking a wrong view of buddhism.But i think he still do not get it.
Mr Casino u need to understand tat the reason i ask u to read the book i recommended is because so far all ur arguments are totally irrevent to buddhism.Why do i say that because U have not even touched the core teaching of buddhism.So as to say there r actually no debating in the 1st place.All we did were just trying to guide you back to the right path
Btw if u r going to 'bring' tis kinds of so-called knowledge to the world stage eg.Buddhism Global Conference ,you will surely make a mockery out of yourself
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Neutral Onliner's recommendation:
Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
Hi [b]Mr Casino,
buddhism is not wat you think.I would like to intro this book to you for reading so that you will have a better understanding of what buddhism is really abt.I think that only after you gain a better understanding of buddhism then will our discussion be more productive and meaningful.
Buddhism Plain & Simple
Author: Steve Hagen
You could borrow it from the libraries in singapore
may u have peace [/b] -
This thread is really interesting
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Originally posted by casino_king:
then u really don't deeply understand how wise and compassion, a doctor the Buddha really is. it's as long as you can get the result and cure of the illness(ending suffering) done, it doesn't matter if a doctor uses posion to threat posion. that was a case where Buddha went to a cult that worship gods. in order to preach them the Dharma, He didn't change their way of life of ritualism. But Buddha change the Significance of their ritual to explain the Dharma. like washing a cup without change the shape of the cup. this is most brillant form of delivering beings.
I am asking you why Buddhists still cling on to these fantastic claims? Why can't they discard these claims as understanding and knowledge of a bygone era?
ppl who don't see the whole picture only see a small persepctive, judging the book by the cover, see the story outside, but never see the meaning inside. like people are pointing to the moon, while one is still looking at the finger. but the meaning is the moon not the finger.
Dharma is for one to digest. digest is different from clinging. when digested, believe is true believe, not believe is right disbelieve. but when one's not digested the dharma, believe is false believe, disbelieve is also false disbelieve.
people of 'science' are only left in doubt (which is one of the 5 poisons).
it's good that we explain what people of 'science' Cannot explain. it given the whole picture of life and reality itself without doubt. why some are born rich, poor, good lookinh, ugly... all unequality of people and animal...etcs. with that understanding, you then are able to let go, go on and practice Dharma.
/\ -
I agree with most of the points you said except this. Personally I think it does matter and our entire value system and the meaning of existence will change.Originally posted by Isis:It does not matter much whether this or there things really exist. Science has tried to prove time over time and this kind of things can take super- long time.
My personal view:
If we are serious about life and the meaning of our own existence, we have to take steps into understanding it. It is not just about fear, it springs from the love of life and to find out more about what it is. Religion offers what science has not yet able to offer and we have the choice to choose the religion that suits us. Even if we have experienced the reality of the transcendental and rebirth, it is not final, we will soon realize how little we know about our own reality. There is no point over emphasizing anything and make objective claims about a subjective experience. Let science remains as it is and not over/under assert what it is not. The journey must still continue but walk with a truthful heart. To truly gain, the sincerity must be there.
Asking the reality of ‘rebirth’ and experiencing our luminous clarity is “unlocking” the mystery of life, we should not expect it to come easy. To unlock this mystery, seriously make all effort into understanding the meaning no-self and emptiness and practice with all our heart. It is already taught, we have to take the steps. It is the gate towards unlocking the doubt we have in mind. This has to be subjective, it has to be personal, it is an individual ‘touch’ and authentication of what that is being taught by Buddha. All the core teachings of Buddhism are to be found here, now and this moment, it is not else where, not even a moment of thought away. We will be convinced by this ‘touch’ even it is not proven objectively by science. Resting in our pristine awareness and being authenticated by everything without gap, doubt cannot arise and by this, we remain undisturbed. My 2 cents, happy journey to all. -
yesOriginally posted by Thusness:I agree with most of the points you said except this. Personally I think it does matter and our entire value system and the meaning of existence will change.
My personal view:
If we are serious about life and the meaning of our own existence, we have to take steps into understanding it. It is not just about fear, it springs from the love of life and to find out more about what it is. Religion offers what science has not yet able to offer and we have the choice to choose the religion that suits us. Even if we have experienced the reality of the transcendental and rebirth, it is not final, we will soon realize how little we know about our own reality. There is no point over emphasizing anything and make objective claims about a subjective experience. Let science remains as it is and not over/under assert what it is not. The journey must still continue but walk with a truthful heart. To truly gain, the sincerity must be there.
Asking the reality of ‘rebirth’ and experiencing our luminous clarity is “unlocking” the mystery of life, we should not expect it to come easy. To unlock this mystery, seriously make all effort into understanding the meaning no-self and emptiness and practice with all our heart. It is already taught, we have to take the steps. It is the gate towards unlocking the doubt we have in mind. This has to be subjective, it has to be personal, it is an individual ‘touch’ and authentication of what that is being taught by Buddha. All the core teachings of Buddhism are to be found here, now and this moment, it is not else where, not even a moment of thought away. We will be convinced by this ‘touch’ even it is not proven objectively by science. Resting in our pristine awareness and being authenticated by everything without gap, doubt cannot arise and by this, we remain undisturbed. My 2 cents, happy journey to all. -
why do u say superstitions?Originally posted by casino_king:For example right here in ~ Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss ~ It's no wonder some Buddhists here have nothing to contribute to this thread other than to flame. I think other than superstitions their brains are incapable of reasoning. -
I think he meant things that cannot be seen nor touch in our world and yet we trust them based on what is written on the sutrasOriginally posted by Isis:why do u say superstitions? -
Casino King,
I am very new to Buddhism and have very little experience of it so perhaps I have no place to be posting here ... I just thought that I would because I can empathise a little with your general protest about world religions forcing supernatural beliefs upon others that will not stand up to rational analysis (I come from Northern Ireland originally, enough said )
However, I think you are being harsh on Buddhism. It is precisely my frustration with imposition of supernatural rubbish that led me to Buddhism. I too do not accept or believe things easily. I too need evidence. But so far I have got the following evidence:
1. My own experience, which I trust. My limited experience of Buddhist meditation has totally transformed my problem with stress and made me a better person for it (although I have a long way to go
)
2. My observation of Buddhist teachers skilled in the art of meditation shows me that it really works - they are truly good, peaceful people, and I would like to be like that.
3. The considerable research body of literature on the interface between Buddhism and science. I am personally fascinated by Buddhism and neuroplasticity.
4. I understand that the Buddha said "Do not accept my Dharma merely out of respect for me, but analyze and check it the way a goldsmith analyzes gold, by rubbing, cutting and melting it." Everything that I have analysed so far has fallen into one of two categories:
a) True - I can see it working in my life
b) I feel I haven't quite grasped it because I don't really understand it yet, but I feel optimistic that it will make sense to me when I am more advanced.
There is nothing that has appalled or disturbed me, or struck me as blatantly unspiritual - unlike the Old Testament in Christianity which used to pose enormous problems for me.
I don't expect I have convinced you in the slightest - but those are just the ignorant musings of a newbie.
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You're Irish? You understand Chinese?
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Chinese? Is this website originally in Chinese?
It's in English for me. No, I speak no Chinese sadly
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You are a newbie; that is why you talk so much sense. You come originally from N. Ireland; that is why you do not carry any baggage regarding Buddhism with you.Originally posted by la lapine blanche:Casino King,
I am very new to Buddhism and have very little experience of it so perhaps I have no place to be posting here ... I just thought that I would because I can empathise a little with your general protest about world religions forcing supernatural beliefs upon others that will not stand up to rational analysis (I come from Northern Ireland originally, enough said )
However, I think you are being harsh on Buddhism. It is precisely my frustration with imposition of supernatural rubbish that led me to Buddhism. I too do not accept or believe things easily. I too need evidence. But so far I have got the following evidence:
1. My own experience, which I trust. My limited experience of Buddhist meditation has totally transformed my problem with stress and made me a better person for it (although I have a long way to go )
2. My observation of Buddhist teachers skilled in the art of meditation shows me that it really works - they are truly good, peaceful people, and I would like to be like that.
3. The considerable research body of literature on the interface between Buddhism and science. I am personally fascinated by Buddhism and neuroplasticity.
4. I understand that the Buddha said "Do not accept my Dharma merely out of respect for me, but analyze and check it the way a goldsmith analyzes gold, by rubbing, cutting and melting it." Everything that I have analysed so far has fallen into one of two categories:
a) True - I can see it working in my life
b) I feel I haven't quite grasped it because I don't really understand it yet, but I feel optimistic that it will make sense to me when I am more advanced.
There is nothing that has appalled or disturbed me, or struck me as blatantly unspiritual - unlike the Old Testament in Christianity which used to pose enormous problems for me.
I don't expect I have convinced you in the slightest - but those are just the ignorant musings of a newbie.
As you yourself mentioned in your other post about becoming a Buddhist, that a certain sect is considered as a cult; this should warn you straightaway (you coming from N Ireland) that the Buddhist community is not above politics.
What you have written here is exactly what I was trying to tell the rest. That Buddhism is a practical useful and non dogmatic religion. There is no need to include fantastic and supernatural claims into Buddhism.
Since you have come from a Christian country; I can tell you that Christianity, if you take away the supernatural claims and study for yourself the words of Jesus; is also a wonderful religion.
Christianity when it becomes organised, becomes political and each sect then takes a stand and defend it to the death.
Now that you are looking for a Buddhist organisation to attach to; becareful!
I would rather that you do not attach yourself to any Buddhist organisation.
There is a place for people with common interest and beliefs to gather (in Christian teaching, worship) but in Buddhist teachings; Domo.
I rather that you practice Buddhism as an individual and remain as an individual and not get entangled in Buddhist organisational politics; the danger that if you formally indentify yourself with a certain sect, you would.
Open your mind, that is what Budhha teaches. There is nothing to attain. There is nothing to achieve. When you are not trying to attain anything and not trying to achieve anything; that is when you will attain everything and achieve it.
Be always ready to discard any Buddhist teachings and that is when you will realise the beauty of that Buddhist teaching. -
It's an english forum. I'm just wonderingOriginally posted by la lapine blanche:Chinese? Is this website originally in Chinese?
It's in English for me. No, I speak no Chinese sadly -
Yes I agree Christianity in its essence and purest form is also a wonderful teaching. However Buddhism also has many things that Christianity lacks of. Anyway it is entirely up to the seeker's descisions. I shall not discuss it here.
I rather that you practice Buddhism as an individual and remain as an individual and not get entangled in Buddhist organisational politics; the danger that if you formally indentify yourself with a certain sect, you would.
Although theoretically there is nothing wrong with practising individually - it would always be much more efficient and speeds things up to have an experienced teacher, who has 'walked the path ahead of you', to guide you. Just like if you attend University, of cos u can do self study, but sometimes lecturers are of a big help.
Whats more, most pure, non-cultic Buddhist sects has very little politics. Even if there are politics, you dont have to be involved in it. And usually these politics are caused NOT by the teachers, but by the 'students' out of their ignorance.Be always ready to discard any Buddhist teachings and that is when you will realise the beauty of that Buddhist teaching.
Why discard anything when you didn't even pick it up in the first place? That is true emptiness.
Buddha never even told you to become attached to his words.
But take note of it and remain open minded.
4. I understand that the Buddha said "Do not accept my Dharma merely out of respect for me, but analyze and check it the way a goldsmith analyzes gold, by rubbing, cutting and melting it." -
Thank-you for your advice. I don't feel that I could make much progress on my own though because I think there are risks associated with self-delusion and thinking you are following "the Way" when in fact you are not ... and a good sangha would protect me from that because I would see more clearly the path I ought to be following. At least in theory.
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Yes find a teacher but not attach oneself to an organisation, even though they call themselves "Buddhist." Just because they call themselves "Buddhist." Once you are attached to an organisation, you get pulled in no matter what. For me I go to Hindu / Buddhist / Taoist temples and Churches. I never formally join and I come and go without talking to anyone. I go mainly to be among the believers. To be a part of a community of believers. For your info, this morning I was at the Suntec city gathering of the Buddhists.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes I agree Christianity in its essence and purest form ..... I shall not discuss it here.[/quote] I only brought it up because he said that he was from N Ireland.
[quote]Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Although theoretically there is nothing wrong with practising individually - it would always be much more efficient and speeds things up to have an experienced teacher, who has 'walked the path ahead of you', to guide you. Just like if you attend University, of cos u can do self study, but sometimes lecturers are of a big help.
Of course for that community to exist; for that building to exists, some people must be actively involved in it. I just do not want, personally to be attached to it in that way.
So the issues that remains are, how to find a teahcer without attaching to a Buddhist organisation and how to be a part of a community of believers without being part of an organisation.
I think the warning should come first and he can decide for himself. Maybe he likes to get involved in the politics after all.... Form is emptiness and emptiness is form. -
Like I said in the other post, I am simply giving you a warning. You have to make your own decisions. Just be careful to look for a guide and teacher and not a master.Originally posted by la lapine blanche:Thank-you for your advice. I don't feel that I could make much progress on my own though because I think there are risks associated with self-delusion and thinking you are following "the Way" when in fact you are not ... and a good sangha would protect me from that because I would see more clearly the path I ought to be following. At least in theory. -
Again what you said makes sense and theoretically nothing wrong with it.Originally posted by casino_king:Yes find a teacher but not attach oneself to an organisation, even though they call themselves "Buddhist." Just because they call themselves "Buddhist." Once you are attached to an organisation, you get pulled in no matter what. For me I go to Hindu / Buddhist / Taoist temples and Churches. I never formally join and I come and go without talking to anyone. I go mainly to be among the believers. To be a part of a community of believers. For your info, this morning I was at the Suntec city gathering of the Buddhists.
Of course for that community to exist; for that building to exists, some people must be actively involved in it. I just do not want, personally to be attached to it in that way.
So the issues that remains are, how to find a teahcer without attaching to a Buddhist organisation and how to be a part of a community of believers without being part of an organisation.
I think the warning should come first and he can decide for himself. Maybe he likes to get involved in the politics after all.... Form is emptiness and emptiness is form.
But however if you find Buddhism is useful, you may want to put your focus on learning and practising Buddhism. Unless you really got that kind of time to go around Singapore to all sorts of places.
Just like university - there are a lot of different subjects. You only need to major in one particular kind - i.e, Engineering. Although if you study engineering you still can study a bit of other subjects, your major is still your major.
Otherwise there will be little results coming out of it - and you will not be able to receive your graduation certificate because you cannot complete one particular course - but machiam a bit of everything.
This same advise goes not only to different religions - but different followers of different schools of Buddhism that focuses on different aspects and practises. Because Buddha taught 84000 dharma doors, it may be needed that you only focus on some or one.