Illuminate your mind !
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seriously , i dun need to spend long hour to debate with youOriginally posted by laoda99:splendid....ur taichi skills are good =)
u post something controversial, and when someone response, u leave it hanging....
simply splendid....
~clap clap clap
I have already said in my earlier posting
that u can still follow the 4 noble truth and noble eightfold path if u dont understand zen ...
no one will condemn you for not knowing and unable to understand zen
but if u really interested , your should make yourself open
well taichi or not , depends on you
I have no need to answer every single question u raised for chan and zen
becos if u dont meditate , you will not realise for yourself what is written here in forum
Buddha's wisdom is so deep , how do you think i can present everything for you ??
some you will accept , some you will not .and its totally up to you
It is your own liberation , not mine
my 2 cent worth -
and I also have my work as I am working ... I dun see why you so impatient to wait for a reply and hurl insult and abuse to other when u dont see a reply
Is that a gentleman stand ?
Perhaps you should reflect on yourself before commenting on anything on Buddhism
becos u are not receptive towards teaching ,so maybe sorry , zen doesnt work for you,then its best to go towards the basics guidlines
Buddhism is all about peace of mind , not war-mongering character
you defeated at the first instance when you are challenging against Zen Buddhism ,becos it is all abt in Harmony with everything
it is knowing your own mind , my fren -
Hmm....why instead of explaining u post two long replies talking abt something else? Thought u have to work? Time is $$$ I know.....
Yup...u dun need to explain...i not the ba chor mee man....won't pester u for explanation....but.....U see....the problem is.....u dun at a moment say: u can discard everything.....and then the next....u say: u still need guidelines....
They dun go very well....
So at the end of the day: We still need guidelines, and the "discard everything" is merely post for the sake of posting..... -
okokeOriginally posted by laoda99:Hmm....why instead of explaining u post two long replies talking abt something else? Thought u have to work? Time is $$$ I know.....
Yup...u dun need to explain...i not the ba chor mee man....won't pester u for explanation....but.....U see....the problem is.....u dun at a moment say: u can discard everything.....and then the next....u say: u still need guidelines....
They dun go very well....
So at the end of the day: We still need guidelines, and the "discard everything" is merely post for the sake of posting.....
just follow the noble eightfold path is good enuff for u
be in good spirit in the learning of Dharma -
becos when we have not 'matured' yet.Just like learing 'kung fu' in the begining we need guidelines learning step by step , stroke by stroke but once we reach a certain stage(when the time is rite )We don need all these liaoOriginally posted by laoda99:Hmm....why instead of explaining u post two long replies talking abt something else? Thought u have to work? Time is $$$ I know.....
Yup...u dun need to explain...i not the ba chor mee man....won't pester u for explanation....but.....U see....the problem is.....u dun at a moment say: u can discard everything.....and then the next....u say: u still need guidelines....
They dun go very well....
So at the end of the day: We still need guidelines, and the "discard everything" is merely post for the sake of posting..... -
so in short, u r saying:Originally posted by neutral_onliner:becos when we have not 'matured' yet.Just like learing 'kung fu' in the begining we need guidelines learning step by step , stroke by stroke but once we reach a certain stage(when the time is rite )We don need all these liao
1) guidelines are for beginners
2) when u are more advanced can discard all the guidelines liao? -
no , guidelines is also a method of going to the goal(buddhahood)Originally posted by laoda99:so in short, u r saying:
1) guidelines are for beginners
2) when u are more advanced can discard all the guidelines liao?
its just like sugar
when we mention , sucrose, fructose , caramel , glucose
they are all sugar
the taste is still .... sweet
this is much different from other religion as you can name it -
Ok first, you need to know what are the 8 fold path to enlightenment. If guidelines are held as absolute it will inevitably become a dualism. In Christianity, the essential two commandments is "Thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." (Deut 6:5, Mat 22:37) and " Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Lev 19:18, Mat 22:39.). Why are they the essentials? Because when there is the Unconditional Love which is itself without discriminations as Jesus always taught, things will fall in place, everything will become One and naturally all other 'commandments' are met without fail.Originally posted by laoda99:so in short, u r saying:
1) guidelines are for beginners
2) when u are more advanced can discard all the guidelines liao?Book: Buddhism Plain and Simple by Steve Hagen
Page 53:
5. The Art of Seeing
THE FOURTH TRUTH OF THE BUDDHA-dharma, also known as the eightfold path, offers us a realisation and a practice for bringing about the cessation of dukkha.
This is not a path we can take to get from point A to point B. Its peculiar nature is that the moment we step on it, the entire path is realised at once. Still, with each step we take we can deepen our understanding.
The eight aspects of this path are right view. right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right meditation.
We'll preview each of these in a moment, but first let's consider the word "right." The word the Buddha actually used was samma. Samma is translated as "right" - but not "right" as opposed to "wrong," or "bad," or "evil." Normally, the moment we say "right," we've already implied "wrong." We've implied dualism.
For those unfamiliar with the term as it's being used here, dualism simply refers to the world of left and right, dark and light, good and bad, pure and impure. It's the psychological backdrop for our everyday world of chasing after something and running away from others, the world in which if you differ from me, then there's something wrong with you.
Obviously, this isn't what the Buddha meant by samma. The term suggests something far more subtle. It's better that we understand right as "this is appropriate," "this works," "this is in sync with Reality." Right, on the eightfold path, doesn't mean right versus wrong so much as it means seeing versus not seeing. It refers to being in touch with Reality as opposed to Samma refers to Wholeness rather than fragmentation.
Thus, when I use the word "right" in the chapters to come, I intend it to refer to what is conducive awakening, rather than something that can be compared against something wrong.
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6. Wisdom
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page 66:
Right view is seeing reality in all its fullness and fluidity. Yet there's nothing in particular to be seen.
In the world of our common ordinary mind, everything is divided up: left and right, good and bad, above and below.
For example, we see the puma stalking the deer and we want to call out to the deer to help him escape. And when the puma pounces on the deer, our heart goes out to the deer.
So we look for a way to protect the deer. We put bells on the puma so the deer knows when she's around. As a result, the puma suffers. Eventually, she starves.
With no more puma to keep the deer population in check, the number of deer increases. Before long there are more deer than the local environment can support. The deer overgraze the land and strip the trees and shrubs bare of leaves. And eventually, due to overpopulation, the deer, too, begin to starve.
We believe we're expressing compsasion. But compassion must be balanced with wisdom. To the extent we don't see, we waste our compassion.
If you see Reality in its fluidity and fullness, then you see the puma as well as the deer. You see how the two fit together as parts of a seamless Whole.
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7. Morality
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page 78:
What's the point of right speech? It's to remind ourselves, to constantly bring ourselves back to this moment - not only for ourselves, but for others as well. It's to do whatever leads us out of confusion and bondage. It's to see what's really going on.
The Buddha did not lay down any commandments. If we say, "Thou shalt not lie," applying it as a rule, what are we to do when the Gestapo pounds at our door and we're harbouring a family of innocent fugitives in the attic? If not lying were an absolute rule to live by, we'd be in deep moral trouble.
Nevertheless, it's not the case that buddhas simply live out of their own individual truths. The buddha-dharma - what the awakened teach - is about directly seeing Truth itself, prior to forming any ideas about it. It is about responding to each particular situation as it comes to be, not according to some lockstep programs of do's and don'ts. We can't use a hard and fast rule to deal with the dilemmas and uncertainties and ambiguities of life. A rule - any rule - would only open the door for more relativism and contradiction.
Nevertheless, we can see what's morally appropriate in each situation. We can easily see what actions and speech will lead us and others into hatred, confusion, difficulty, and suffering. And we can see what actions and speech will lead us and others into hatred, confusion, difficulty, and suffering. And we can see what words and actions will not. It all has to do with our intention. Is our intention to hoodwink, mislead, inflate, or deceive others - or is it to be awake?
Here is the focus for right speech. In any given moment, our eyes must be open to see our situation fully for what it is. Our intent- and the action, speech, and though that arise from the intent - is that we all become free of our confusion. For this, it's not necessary that we see one thing pitted against another.
Right speech omits nothing. It includes the whole picture: the Gestapo, the fugitive family, yourself, and the world in which you live.
Right speech doesn't rely on judgment or discriminative thinking. In judging we weigh everything out. We base our speech on some conceptual frame that we've arranged to accommodate ourselves and process ideas - like, for example, the idea that the Gestapo are inherently bad, and the people upstairs are inherently good. This is precisely the thinking that got us into trouble in the first place. Indeed, it's the very thinking that produces both the Gestapo and the fugitives.
Instead, we have to simply see the situation in all its pain, conflict, difficulty, and contradiction, and see how it is we become so confused. Then, and only then, can we speak and act in a way that's conducive to awakening.
We must also observe our own intent, so that we can know when we're speaking or acting out of a leaning mind, out of a desire to bring about some particular end. Right speech concerns your intention. Are you using speech because you're trying to manipulate the world and other people? Or are you speaking in order to help yourself and others wake up? -
Anyway the book Buddhism Plain & Simple by Steve Hagen is really a v good book - if you want to know more about Buddhism you can start on that one. Everything in the book is practical in life. It's all about enlightenment, not just scholarly knowledge and concepts (although they are explained - in a lively manner) - and that is what Buddhism is. Also, Steve Hagen is also a Zen teacher.
It's also neutral_onliner's recommendation to Casino_King a month ago:Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
Hi [b]Mr Casino,
buddhism is not wat you think.I would like to intro this book to you for reading so that you will have a better understanding of what buddhism is really abt.I think that only after you gain a better understanding of buddhism then will our discussion be more productive and meaningful.
Buddhism Plain & Simple
Author: Steve Hagen
You could borrow it from the libraries in singapore
may u have peace [/b]