I can believe in Buddhism and still keep my faith?
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Ordinally happiness when ended, suffering occur there after.
Know that suffering is real, and happiness is false. As suffering don't become happiness, but happiness can become suffering. Unchanging is real, while changing is false.
Example, when eating good food. Eating my favourite food is happiness.
But, if were to continue to eat bowl after bowl of the same food, it becomes a suffering. This is how happiness become suffering. happiness if continuous become suffering. But suffering if continuous will not become happiness.
Example, when hungry, i am experiencing suffering. If continue to stay hungry for 7 days, i will experience more suffering, not happiness. So suffering is real, and happiness is false.
Now neither suffering nor happiness is a good experience/realm. But one cannot sustain this state as time waits for no man.
Example when we are born, we are already walking towards the deathbed. Who can stop moving? None.
But it's said that in Nirvanic Bliss, there's no all above three forms of sufferings.
In this samsara world there's duality. Suffering and happiness is Prejudiced view for one side or the other. If Nirvana has no suffering, then happiness is also gone. As it's on the same side with suffering. One gone, the other will too have to go with it. It's when both suffering and happiness is ended that bring forth the Ulitmate Reality of Nirvana (aka Ji2 Le4, Utmost Bliss). Thus called True bliss/happiness. If there happiness, then happiness is suffering and False. Ji le/Ulitmate Bliss is indeed inconcievable! Inconcievable mean cannot be said, nor cannot be think nor cannot be percieve.
Samsara is dimension of matter/karma controlling, you can't have your own wish or doing, hence suffering. Nirvana is a state/dimension of Mind/will/vow controlling, hence no suffering. there's this Utimate reality Buddha discovered!
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Since it is so rare and recognised by Buddha to be so, we can safely concluded that the main aim of Buddhism is not Enlightenment (Buddhahood?)Originally posted by sinweiy:rare indeed. see the mountain producing charcoal. how many become diamond.
Buddha also grap a handful of soil and make a comparision that the handful is born human. the soil on the gound are other living organisms/beings. when the soil is let go, those sand trap in the finger nail are studying Dharma.
though we all have the nature to become Buddha like all charcoal can become diamond.
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Aim is still to become Buddha. Even though it is rare to see a Buddha doesn't mean we cannot aim to become a Buddha.Originally posted by casino_king:Since it is so rare and recognised by Buddha to be so, we can safely concluded that the main aim of Buddhism is not Enlightenment (Buddhahood?)
In fact although there is not many Buddhas manifesting to us, there are many Bodhisattvas who are on their way to Buddhahood. Anyone can practise as a practitioner, then proceed to practising as a Bodhisattva and then eventually attain Buddhahood.
There are countless enlightened people in the world, although they have not reached stage of the Buddha. They have awakened to reality, and may be considered at various stages on the path of the Bodhisattva or the path towards Arhantship, or they have attained Arhantship. -
So Enlightenment is not Buddhahood? Not even Bodhisattva? What is the heirarchy? Where is Enlightenment? I understand that monks are ranked based on how many precepts they follow (Thailand)?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Aim is still to become Buddha. Even though it is rare to see a Buddha doesn't mean we cannot aim to become a Buddha.
In fact although there is not many Buddhas manifesting to us, there are many Bodhisattvas who are on their way to Buddhahood. Anyone can practise as a practitioner, then proceed to practising as a Bodhisattva and then eventually attain Buddhahood.
There are countless enlightened people in the world, although they have not reached stage of the Buddha. They have awakened to reality, and may be considered at various stages on the path of the Bodhisattva or the path towards Arhantship, or they have attained Arhantship. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
then u stay suffering lor. i aim for ending suffering.
Since it is so rare and recognised by Buddha to be so, we can safely concluded that the main aim of Buddhism is not Enlightenment (Buddhahood
rare cannot conclude not aiming for enlightenment what. charcoal also need to undergo refinement to become diamond.
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Yes only for ending suffering or what... now I am a little confused because I always thought that when Gautama became Enlightened, he became Buddha.Originally posted by sinweiy:then u stay suffering lor. i aim for ending suffering.
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Enlightenment is not Buddhahood? Not even Bodhisattva? What is the heirarchy? Where is Enlightenment in the heirarchy? -
Only Buddha's enlightenment is called 'Anuttarasamyaksambodhi', the 'Unsurpassed, Proper and Equal, Right Enlightenment'.Originally posted by casino_king:So Enlightenment is not Buddhahood? Not even Bodhisattva? What is the heirarchy? Where is Enlightenment? I understand that monks are ranked based on how many precepts they follow (Thailand)?
Other levels of awakening (i.e Arhantship) is also awakening but on a different level. For example an arhant is already liberated from Samsara and samsaric sufferings. A Buddha is liberated from both samsara and nirvana dharma and the subtle discrimination of nirvana and samsara is also removed. Bodhisattvas also attain various stages of enlightenment. To enter the 'path of seeing' of the Bodhisattva one also has to attain a direct perception on Emptiness, therefore also attaining a level of realisation/enlightenment. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
Enlightenment is like onion peeling, layer by layer. the core, nothing to peel, Buddhahood is Full enlightenment. Bodhisattva bit lower, on the way.
Yes only for ending suffering or what... now I am a little confused because I always thought that when Gautama became Enlightened, he became Buddha.
Enlightenment is not Buddhahood? Not even Bodhisattva? What is the heirarchy? Where is Enlightenment in the heirarchy?
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
Well said
Enlightenment is like onion peeling, layer by layer. the core Buddhahood is [b]Full enlightenment. Bodhisattva bit lower, on the way.
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[/b]
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OIC I always thought that you cross a line and by magic you become Enlightened; so enlightenment is like becoming wiser and wiser?
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Initial enlightenment can come as a glimpse, like a flash of Satori. But this is not the end.Originally posted by casino_king:OIC I always thought that you cross a line and by magic you become Enlightened; so enlightenment is like becoming wiser and wiser?
See http://sped2work.tripod.com/satori.html
I am not enlightened, so I only speak of what I know, but there are many forummers who know this directly rather than conceptually. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
can like that say. giving that Buddha is ominscience, all knowing, or having used the water parable, it's the stilless water ever. bodhisattva still have a bit of turbulence depending on the level.
OIC I always thought that you cross a line and by magic you become Enlightened; so enlightenment is like becoming wiser and wiser? [/b]
i think even sudden enlightenment also have a 'history or background' of practice before. that's why they can bring out the seed in the sub-consciousness.
SUDDEN OR GRADUAL ENLIGHTENMENT?
by Rev.Vajra Karuna
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/sudgrad2.htmlSudden Enlightenment may come to one, but unless he or she is prepared to recognize it, and even more importantly to integrate it into his or her everyday psychological being, it will almost certainly come only to slip away.
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Neither the Gradualist nor the Suddenist approach can guarantee Enlightenment, but each in their own way can give one a chance at gaining it. For the person who can commit him or herself to a fully monastic life the Gradual way may offer more hope than the Sudden way. For those who can not make such a dramatic commitment it may be the Sudden way that offers the hope. Like all religious and philosophical views various rational arguments can be made to support either a Gradualist or Suddenist approach, but the bottom line is that neither can be logically proven nor disproven. Both, in the final analysis, depend largely upon faith. Indeed, all schools of Buddhism, if not all religious traditions, require a strong faith component before any real Spiritual Awakening can occur. -
While I am most impressed that you can find and paste quotes to almost any question I ask; I find them sometimes very contradictory.
Like this statement: Both, in the final analysis, depend largely upon faith. Indeed, all schools of Buddhism, if not all religious traditions, require a strong faith component before any real Spiritual Awakening can occur.
So now Buddhism requires faith? -
Originally posted by casino_king:
Faith, literally means belief without proof. So if you ask me, I would say, no. Because u are not taught to accept everything in face value in Buddhism, instead you are encourage to investigate, practise and realise it for yourself. In fact, Buddhism is not even a religion to begin with, because there is no supreme being to worship to.
While I am most impressed that you can find and paste quotes to almost any question I ask; I find them sometimes very contradictory.
Like this statement: [b]Both, in the final analysis, depend largely upon faith. Indeed, all schools of Buddhism, if not all religious traditions, require a strong faith component before any real Spiritual Awakening can occur.
So now Buddhism requires faith?[/b] -
SUDDEN OR GRADUAL ENLIGHTENMENT?
by Rev.Vajra Karuna
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/sudgrad2.html
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sudden Enlightenment may come to one, but unless he or she is prepared to recognize it, and even more importantly to integrate it into his or her everyday psychological being, it will almost certainly come only to slip away.
Neither the Gradualist nor the Suddenist approach can guarantee Enlightenment, but each in their own way can give one a chance at gaining it. For the person who can commit him or herself to a fully monastic life the Gradual way may offer more hope than the Sudden way. For those who can not make such a dramatic commitment it may be the Sudden way that offers the hope. Like all religious and philosophical views various rational arguments can be made to support either a Gradualist or Suddenist approach, but the bottom line is that neither can be logically proven nor disproven. Both, in the final analysis, depend largely upon faith. Indeed, all schools of Buddhism, if not all religious traditions, require a strong faith component before any real Spiritual Awakening can occur.
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As you can see the faith statement comes from the above quote provided by the mod. You see how it will confuse people? -
need proper understanding of faith or rather confidence.
fyi:
http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/BuddhistDict/BDF.html#faith
faith
Faith is one of the Eleven Wholesome Dharmas of the One Hundred Dharmas (see entry for latter); it is also one of the Five Faculties (faith, vigor, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom).
"Faith is necessary in whatever it is one does. One needs to have a sense of belief, an attitude of faith. First, one needs to have faith in oneself. What kind of faith? One needs to have faith that one certainly can become a Buddha. One has to believe that there is no difference between the Buddha and oneself. Yet that lack of difference is in one's Buddha-nature. Cultivation is still required in order to actually become a Buddha. If one cultivates, one will become a Buddha. In order to do so, one must have an initial belief in this principle.
"Second, not only is it necessary to believe that one can become a Buddha oneself, but also to believe that all people can become Buddhas. Moreover, not only can all people become Buddhas, one should believe that all living beings have the Buddha-nature and are capable of becoming Buddhas. If one has that kind of faith, then one should begin by following the rules oneself. To follow the rules means to hold the moral precepts. First one holds the precepts, and then one can become a Buddha. One does it oneself and also encourages others to do so as well.
"Faith must be solid, like a rock, firm and sturdy. Faith shouldn't be like a pile of ashes which seems to have some substance to it but which crumbles at the slightest disturbance. Don't be too soft. One's faith must be strong and solid." (HD 44 45)
THE IMPORTANCE OF FAITH
"Faith is the foundation of cultivation of the Way and the mother of merit and virtue, because it is capable of nourishing wholesome roots. The Buddhadharma is like a vast sea; only by faith can it be entered. Therefore, the single word 'faith' is the essence of escape from birth and death and is the wonderful means for returning to the source. It is a precious raft on the stream of affliction, a torch in the dark cave of ignorance, and a guide who leads us out of the path of confusion. It is a compass for those floundering in the waves on the sea of suffering, and a sagely teacher for those in the Three Paths (Arhat, Pratyekabuddha, and Bodhisattva) and Eight Difficulties ( ). It is the origin of awakening for the Four Kinds of Creatures born (from wombs, eggs, moisture, and transformation) within the Six Paths (see entry). Faith cannot be ignored. An author of ancient times said, 'If a man has no faith, I do not know what can be made of him.'
"Once two bhikshus were travelling to see Shakyamuni Buddha, the World-Honored One. As they travelled they became extremely thirsty but could not find any water. As they walked they happened upon a human skull containing water in which some small bugs were swimming, enjoying themselves tremendously. One of the bhikshus picked up the water and offered some to his companion. The companion replied, 'This water contains bugs, and the moral precepts do not permit drinking such water. I would rather die of thirst than to violate the precepts in order to stay alive.' After this incident he died of thirst.
"When the bhikshu who had drunk the water reached the place where the Buddha was residing, he bowed and said to the Lord, 'Your disciple was travelling in the company of another bhikshu who perished of thirst on the road. I hope the Buddha will be compassionate and rescue him.'
"The Buddha said to the bhikshu who had drunk the water, 'Because he stringently maintained the moral precepts and was so firm in his faith that he would not violate them even in the face of death, he received the awesome power of the Buddhas and arrived here before you. He has already seen the Buddha and heard the Dharma before you. He is a bhikshu who has true faith in the precepts." (WM 53-54; also S42 75-76)
Hymn of Faith
Faith is the source of the Way;
Faith is the mother of merit and virtue.
As they arise by faith,
All wholesome dharmas must by faith be nurtured.
Faith cuts the tangled web of doubt,
Escaping loves delusive flow,
And opens wide to reveal the true and unsurpassed Nirvana's road.
Faith has no stain or mar,
Bringing the turbid mind purification,
Eradicating pride,
Of all respect and reverence the foundation.
Within the Dharma Treasury
faith's jewel outshines the fairest gold;
Hence every conduct our hands by faith made pure receive and surely hold.
Faith is the healing source
By which our faculties are cleansed and quickened. Nothing can turn its force,
The solid power of faith cannot be broken.
And when by faith forever
From all affliction we depart,
The Buddha's merit will thus become the sole devotion of our hearts.
With faith the mind's unmoved,
Free from attachment to conditioned arising;
Disasters far removed,
In the tranquility of faith abiding.
The bliss of faith victorious!
Among the conducts of all worlds,
This faith alone is the one most rare and precious wish-fulfilling pearl.
Profoundly we believe:
Trusting the Buddhas and the Buddhas' Dharma,
Treading the Bodhi-Path,
Forever followed by all true disciples.
And to the Great Enlightenment
Our thoughts are joyfully inclined:
The Bodhisattvas with this deep heart of faith produce the Bodhi-Mind!
(RH 235)
1) Ch. syin , 2) Skt. sraddha, (prasada), 3) Pali saddha,
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Originally posted by casino_king:
The Zen masters would tell you, for enlightenment to occur, you need doubt. And as my Master said, and many other Zen masters said, we Not only need doubt, as small doubt can only produce small realisations, but GREAT DOUBT (of intense questioning) will produce Great Enlightenment. By great doubt, a person persistantly inquires on his Koan until he reaches breakthrough. 'Great Faith, Great Doubt, Great Determination' are three needs of zen practise.
SUDDEN OR GRADUAL ENLIGHTENMENT?
by Rev.Vajra Karuna
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/sudgrad2.html
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sudden Enlightenment may come to one, but unless he or she is prepared to recognize it, and even more importantly to integrate it into his or her everyday psychological being, it will almost certainly come only to slip away.
Neither the Gradualist nor the Suddenist approach can guarantee Enlightenment, but each in their own way can give one a chance at gaining it. For the person who can commit him or herself to a fully monastic life the Gradual way may offer more hope than the Sudden way. For those who can not make such a dramatic commitment it may be the Sudden way that offers the hope. Like all religious and philosophical views various rational arguments can be made to support either a Gradualist or Suddenist approach, but the bottom line is that neither can be logically proven nor disproven. [b]Both, in the final analysis, depend largely upon faith. Indeed, all schools of Buddhism, if not all religious traditions, require a strong faith component before any real Spiritual Awakening can occur.
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As you can see the faith statement comes from the above quote provided by the mod. You see how it will confuse people?[/b]http://www2.bc.cc.ca.us/resperic/science_and_spirituality.htm
“Great faith” in Zen practice refers to a trust in the process, as demonstrated by the many who have gone on before, as well as a firm trust in one’s capabilities to see the essential nature of reality for oneself. In scientific work, “great faith” refers to a trust in the scientific method, successfully applied by scientists of the past, as well as an underlying belief in one’s inherent capability to understand the phenomena being studied.
“Great doubt” in Zen refers to a willingness to profoundly question all of one’s most cherished beliefs, and ultimately to uproot them. Beliefs are but concepts, floating on the surface. The conceptual realm may be useful at times, but compulsive attachment to particular concepts is a hindrance to penetrating to deeper levels of realization of the fundamental nature of reality, which is beyond all concepts. An ancient Chinese saying states that when a wise man points his finger to the moon, the fool sees only his finger. In science, “great doubt” is based on a realization that the model is not the reality. Being too attached to a particular hypothesis or theory can prevent one from arriving at a better theory that reflects a deeper understanding of the phenomena of interest.
“Great determination” in Zen is required in order to not give in to laziness. The process may take some time, and without determination one may never attain deep realization. In fact, there is no deepest realization, and only by great determination will one keep going deeper. Of course the same can be said of scientific research. -
yes in buddhism we are taught to investigateOriginally posted by coolbluewater:Faith, literally means belief without proof. So if you ask me, I would say, no. Because u are not taught to accept everything in face value in Buddhism, instead you are encourage to investigate, practise and realise it for yourself. In fact, Buddhism is not even a religion to begin with, because there is no supreme being to worship to.
Having faith is important becos we sometime lack the wisdom to have a proper understanding of the teachings. When we do not understand somethings, this does not mean it is wrong but either do we blindly accept it as right. As we have faith in the buddhism teachings, we will continue to investigate and improve to understand what are do not understand. -
The Zen masters would tell you, for enlightenment to occur, you need doubt. And as my Master said, and many other Zen masters said, we Not only need doubt, as small doubt can only produce small realisations, but GREAT DOUBT (of intense questioning) will produce Great Enlightenment. By great doubt, a person persistantly inquires on his Koan until he reaches breakthrough. 'Great Faith, Great Doubt, Great Determination' are three needs of zen practise.
very zen.. and well put.. -
Saddha Sutta
ps: somehow the last potions describe the like of pureland as indicated
Conviction
Translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
"For a lay person, there are these five rewards of conviction. Which
five?
"When the truly good people in the world show compassion, they will
first show compassion to people of conviction, and not to people
without conviction. When visiting, they first visit people of
conviction, and not people without conviction. When accepting gifts,
they will first accept those from people with conviction, and not
from people without conviction. When teaching the Dhamma, they will
first teach those with conviction, and not those without conviction.
A person of conviction, on the break-up of the body, after death,
will arise in a good destination, the heavenly world. For a lay
person, these are the five rewards of conviction.
"Just as a large banyan tree, on level ground where four roads meet,
is a haven for the birds all around, even so a lay person of
conviction is a haven for many people: monks, nuns, male lay
followers, & female lay followers."
A massive tree
whose branches carry fruits & leaves,
with trunks & roots
& an abundance of fruits:
There the birds find rest.
In that delightful sphere
they make their home.
Those seeking shade
come to the shade,
those seeking fruit
find fruit to eat.
So with the person consummate
in virtue & conviction,
humble, sensitive, gentle,
delightful, & mild:
To him come those without effluent —
free from passion,
free from aversion,
free from delusion —
the field of merit for the world.
They(noble beings) teach him the Dhamma
that dispels all stress.
And when he understands,
he is freed from effluents,
totally unbound.---
in Amitabha Sutra regrading trees, birds and noble beings.
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Amituofo! -
Greeting to all,
Very happy to see more and more 'educating' threads posted here.I think ~ Buddhism: Wisdom Bliss ~ is moving towards the rite direction