"excuse me, are you a Bodhisattva?"
-
Hi Paperflower,Originally posted by paperflower:i can easily fall over to the dark side or the orthodox side. this for a long time i have been aware of....
its my affinity that i am able to continue to learn buddha's teaching and again take refuge in the three treasures.
i have an incident, many many years ago....
i knew a friend who has things better than me. it seemed that she can get her things her way around so easily without much efforts. but i have to work so hard to get what i least wanted. i was extremely angry about this and was very jealous.
i stood in the room alone, held my heart and cursed her so badly that one of her badges overnight was tarnished with black mark that could not be erased. the black mark was unknown of how it came to be.....
she was shocked as she left it in a place where only she could reach and was surprised how it became tarnished.
perhaps with my heart and mind, the strong will of hatred caused the scar. perhaps it saved her from the curses. yes i regretted doing that after knowing my mistakes.......
its a matter of fine line apart for me to be on the dark or bright side of practice. when i finally have the affinity to be with buddha, i wish only to learn and practice earnestly buddha's teaching....
its not anything about being crazy about buddhism, it is because that's how i will put my heart and mind into a practice i choose.
Thanks for the sharing
This is similar to my case as well.
You see, we try to cover our dark side by taking the Boddhisatva vow. We hope that the vow will wash away our inherent darkness.
However, the inherent darkness must be clear by karmic pattern recognition and clearing of the associated emotional and mental thoughtforms. The Boddhisatva vow is an additional thoughtform that overlayed the original karmic patterns. They will not go away... they must be dissolved by karmic pattern recognition.
I am no better than you... I am just sharing my expereinces. -
i see, got that.
thanks for sharing too. -
Originally posted by paperflower:anyone out there aspiring to cultivate the bodhisattva way?
wisdom and compassion, how many times have you managed to apply them both together successfully?
is bodhisattvahood for the norm or the "special breed" of human beings?
what is a bodhisattva?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Lama Surya Das: The Bodhisattva path is the highest spiritual ideal that I've ever encountered. It's predicated on the recognition that we're all one. And the common ground of all beings is that we all want to be happy and well, and have our loved ones be protected and safe and happy and not harmed. We're all joined in that way, therefore we dedicate ourselves to the greater welfare of all, not just for our own selfish, temporary welfare in this short life. When we take the Bodhisattva vow, we make ourselves a spiritual servant, like a saintly or peaceful warrior working for peace, enlightenment and the betterment of all beings. And not just human beings, but all beings of all kinds throughout all lifetimes, in all possible worlds and universes. It's really a saintly, cosmic aspiration of service and dedication to the highest good for all (as opposed to the temporary gratification or the materialism of this life). That's really the basics of Tibetan Buddhism, the Mahayana Buddhism, the Great Vehicle or Great Boat. The vehicle intent on universal liberation, not just individual relief or individual enlightenment. It's realizing that as long as any being is suffering or is imprisoned, I too am not completely free. So we pray, "May we all together complete the spiritual path. We vow not to go to Nirvana or complete our spiritual work until all beings get there." So as long as there is any suffering in the world, there is still spiritual work to do. That's the Bodhisattva vow and the Bodhisattva aspiration and that's the heart of the Mahayana Buddhism. Buddhism really has three schools and Mahayana is probably the biggest. -
No personal insults here..Originally posted by Cenarious:dun worry about bodhiruci he is a spastic -
The only way to become a True Bodhisattva is not only making a simple vow but generating Bodhicitta that springs up from true compassion and aspiration, definitely not guilt or etc. On the higher level Bodhicitta is the Realisation of Emptiness. A vow also does not determine whether you will succeed in Buddhahood, but very much how you act according to the vow.Originally posted by longchen:Dear Friends,
I am not a boddhisatva... because i can be an asshole if i wanted to. But I will like to recount my expereince with the Boddhisatva vow.
I took the Boddhisatva vow lifetimes ago. Well, it has been continuous hell for me. When you take the vow, you agree to assist others in their liberation. Because of this, very difficult people will enter your life. You will encounter all kinds of difficult people and situation because you 'believe' you need to 'save' them.
Let me ask a question? Why do you want to take the vow. If it is for glory or a beautiful self-image... we will regret it. For my case, the reason for my taking the vow is less than altrustic.
You see, lifetimes before I took the vow, I have powerful but dark lives. I was involve in very harmful acts... and that caused me to be very guilty. Lifetimes forward, i try to appease my guilt by taking the boddhisatva vow. But, what could have been more important is to clear the karma of harmfulness rather than taking a vow to cover a guilt.
Dear friends, i ask of you to uncover the exact reason for taking the vow.
All the best...
It is true that one will encounter many difficult situations along the way to Buddhahood, but nevertheless the True Bodhisattva remains liberated. He is not even caught up by the notion of 'saving people', if he were, he is not practising the true practise of Bodhisattva but simply remains as a sentient being caught up by notions and concepts of self. It is a spiritual training and is tough, but in the light of Prajna wisdom it is not impossible.
The Diamond Sutra:
Subhuti, what do you think about this? Does the Tathagata think: I have saved all Beings? You must not think so, because there is not a single being which is saved by the Tathagata. If the Tathagata saved a being, that would be seizing by the Tathagata on self - atman, seizing on a being, seizing on soul, seizing on a person.
---
Do not think that you should save people. There is no one to save. If there were anyone to save, there would be a self.
---
"Subhuti, Bodhisattva is also like this. If he said, 'I should take across immeasurable living beings to Cessation,' then he could not be called a Bodhisattva. Why? Subhuti, there is really no dharma called a Bodhisattva. Therefore the Buddha says that all dharmas are without self, others, living beings or a life.
"Subhuti, if a Bodhisattva said, 'I should adorn Buddhalands,' he could not be called a Bodhisattva. Why? What the Thus Come One speaks of as adorning Buddhalands is not adorning Buddhalands. Therefore it is called adorning Buddhalands. Subhuti, if a Bodhisattva comprehends the dharma of no self, the Thus Come One calls him a true Bodhisattva."
---
The Buddha told Subhuti, "All Bodhisattvas, Mahasattvas, should subdue their minds thus: 'I must cause all living beings--those born from eggs, wombs, moisture, by transformation; those with form, those without form, those with thought, those without thought, those not totally endowed with thought, and those not totally without thought--to enter Nirvana without residue and be taken across to Cessation. Yet of the immeasurable, numberless, boundless numbers of living beings thus taken across to Cessation, there is actually no living being taken across to Cessation. ' Why? Subhuti, if a Bodhisattva has an appearance of self, others, living beings, or a life, he is not a Bodhisattva."
---
Bodhisattvas save people out of true compassion but does not get caught up by any notions. A true Bodhisattva is one that has had a direct perception on Emptiness, thereby entering the 'path of seeing', '1st Bhumi', therefore before that we can only say that we are still learning and practising. It is only at certain point where Prajna wisdom arise can we be said to enter the path of seeing towards Buddhahood.
The Diamond sutra contains a lot of verses pertaining to true Bodhisattva practise. -
dont really give a damm. so long as you practice what u preach and learn along the way, who cares what u become
boddishtiva or buddha is in the states of one mind, not physical ok. -
Bodhisattva and Buddha is beyond the mind. Bodhisattva is the path towards Supreme Enlightenment, and Buddha is the Awakened.Originally posted by killstyle:dont really give a damm. so long as you practice what u preach and learn along the way, who cares what u become
boddishtiva or buddha is in the states of one mind, not physical ok.
Also some people think that Buddhism is just another religion that preaches 'do good and avoid evil'. But this is what Buddhism differs from most other religions. We emphasize on awakening and 'purifying our minds', not just on 'do good and avoid evil'. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Yes... so wise...
The only way to become a True Bodhisattva is not only making a simple vow but generating Bodhicitta that springs up from true compassion and aspiration, definitely not guilt or etc. On the higher level Bodhicitta is the Realisation of Emptiness. A vow also does not determine whether you will succeed in Buddhahood, but very much how you act according to the vow.
It is true that one will encounter many difficult situations along the way to Buddhahood, but nevertheless the True Bodhisattva remains liberated. He is not even caught up by the notion of 'saving people', if he were, he is not practising the true practise of Bodhisattva but simply remains as a sentient being caught up by notions and concepts of self. It is a spiritual training and is tough, but in the light of Prajna wisdom it is not impossible.
[b]The Diamond Sutra:
Subhuti, what do you think about this? Does the Tathagata think: I have saved all Beings? You must not think so, because there is not a single being which is saved by the Tathagata. If the Tathagata saved a being, that would be seizing by the Tathagata on self - atman, seizing on a being, seizing on soul, seizing on a person.
---
Do not think that you should save people. There is no one to save. If there were anyone to save, there would be a self.
---
"Subhuti, Bodhisattva is also like this. If he said, 'I should take across immeasurable living beings to Cessation,' then he could not be called a Bodhisattva. Why? Subhuti, there is really no dharma called a Bodhisattva. Therefore the Buddha says that all dharmas are without self, others, living beings or a life.
"Subhuti, if a Bodhisattva said, 'I should adorn Buddhalands,' he could not be called a Bodhisattva. Why? What the Thus Come One speaks of as adorning Buddhalands is not adorning Buddhalands. Therefore it is called adorning Buddhalands. Subhuti, if a Bodhisattva comprehends the dharma of no self, the Thus Come One calls him a true Bodhisattva."
---
The Buddha told Subhuti, "All Bodhisattvas, Mahasattvas, should subdue their minds thus: 'I must cause all living beings--those born from eggs, wombs, moisture, by transformation; those with form, those without form, those with thought, those without thought, those not totally endowed with thought, and those not totally without thought--to enter Nirvana without residue and be taken across to Cessation. Yet of the immeasurable, numberless, boundless numbers of living beings thus taken across to Cessation, there is actually no living being taken across to Cessation. ' Why? Subhuti, if a Bodhisattva has an appearance of self, others, living beings, or a life, he is not a Bodhisattva."
---
Bodhisattvas save people out of true compassion but does not get caught up by any notions. A true Bodhisattva is one that has had a direct perception on Emptiness, thereby entering the 'path of seeing', '1st Bhumi', therefore before that we can only say that we are still learning and practising. It is only at certain point where Prajna wisdom arise can we be said to enter the path of seeing towards Buddhahood.
The Diamond sutra contains a lot of verses pertaining to true Bodhisattva practise.[/b]
Thanks for the sharing... -
do good and aviod evil is part of the process in realising our true nature and the meanging of our exisitence.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Bodhisattva and Buddha is beyond the mind. Bodhisattva is the path towards Supreme Enlightenment, and Buddha is the Awakened.
Also some people think that Buddhism is just another religion that preaches 'do good and avoid evil'. But this is what Buddhism differs from most other religions. We emphasize on awakening and 'purifying our minds', not just on 'do good and avoid evil'.
if its beyond ones mind. then stop studying or practing buddishm alreadly. u wont have the chance of seeing the truth.
come on man, before buddha sees the truth, he was a man once. he was like you and i once.
dont emphaise on buddha as a being or whatever u cant understand, see or feel.
whats most important is the legacy he left behind, for us to follow, so that one day we can see the truth, like him -
Yes thats right you said it well. But one point is... awakening is beyond mind, it is seeing things as it is, without our layer of judgements. We can live 'awakenedly' by being aware and mindful every moment.Originally posted by killstyle:do good and aviod evil is part of the process in realising our true nature and the meanging of our exisitence.
if its beyond ones mind. then stop studying or practing buddishm alreadly. u wont have the chance of seeing the truth.
come on man, before buddha sees the truth, he was a man once. he was like you and i once.
dont emphaise on buddha as a being or whatever u cant understand, see or feel.
whats most important is the legacy he left behind, for us to follow, so that one day we can see the truth, like him -
you know something? i dont say what i dont understand.
-
To Paperflower,
May prajna wisdom and bodhicitta arise in you for the benefits of all beings. -
Thats very goodOriginally posted by killstyle:you know something? i dont say what i dont understand. -
all the best to u. seems like history is in the making =D -
Merry Meet An Eternal Now,Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes thats right you said it well. But one point is... awakening is beyond mind, it is seeing things as it is, without our layer of judgements. We can live 'awakenedly' by being aware and mindful every moment.
Trueness, One need to be mindful to truly understand, if not such kind of awareness is nothing or redundant. Emptiness is all i see. Self Deception & Illusion is all there is...
Blessed Be,
Oceanos -
Heh this somehow reminds of me. I thought i can save someone but actually there someone need not to be saved by me.. sometime, i help too much which wasn't too good. Sometime i expect gratitude but hey why shld i expect ? it's not true giving.Originally posted by longchen:Dear Friends,
I am not a boddhisatva... because i can be an asshole if i wanted to. But I will like to recount my expereince with the Boddhisatva vow.
I took the Boddhisatva vow lifetimes ago. Well, it has been continuous hell for me. When you take the vow, you agree to assist others in their liberation. Because of this, very difficult people will enter your life. You will encounter all kinds of difficult people and situation because you 'believe' you need to 'save' them.
Let me ask a question? Why do you want to take the vow. If it is for glory or a beautiful self-image... we will regret it. For my case, the reason for my taking the vow is less than altrustic.
You see, lifetimes before I took the vow, I have powerful but dark lives. I was involve in very harmful acts... and that caused me to be very guilty. Lifetimes forward, i try to appease my guilt by taking the boddhisatva vow. But, what could have been more important is to clear the karma of harmfulness rather than taking a vow to cover a guilt.
Dear friends, i ask of you to uncover the exact reason for taking the vow.
All the best...
I think one whom want to be a Bodhisattva, have to have the correct mindset, practise and cultivate necessary wisdom and compassion so as to help others. For eg, venerable undergoes some years of training before they are qualified to give dharma talks. Therefore, to be a bodhisattva is not easy.
If one is not enlightened, insteading of helping others, we might create more harms ourselves and to others when we feel vexed and angry.
On the other hand, Such situation where anger arised could also be a good opportunity to learn to control and get rid the seeds of anger. We can always learn along the way towards our aspiration to be a bodhisattva.
Just my 2 cents of worth
btw long chen, it's good that u feel gulity and want to help others to atone ur mistakes. isn't there consider repentence?
Maybe this act of helping others create affinity to buddhism for u?ur act of helping others might have lessen ur negative karma.. well u never know...
anyway good advice there
May all be well and happy -
thanks for all your sharing.
i ain't any bodhisattva, i'm still scared of pain or losing any part of my body. my understanding of buddha dharma still not up to scratch.
but what has to let go, just have to let go. what has to come forth, let it be.
buddha is profound; to reach buddhahood, a bodhisattva path is just as profound.
i do sit down and think at times, what is karma. karma is just as profound cos it works in various ways that sometimes one finds it hard to comprehend.
i'm not good in my practice as a buddhist. i still have distractions during meditating, i still break the 5 precepts and so on.....
i have nothing, and i am nothing. -
“Virtuous man, the intrinsic nature of Complete Enlightenment is devoid of distinct natures, yet all different natures are endowed with this nature of Complete Enlightenment, which can accord and give rise to various natures. Since these two natures are nondual, there is neither attainment nor actualization. In Absolute Reality, there are indeed no bodhisattvas or sentient beings. Why? Because bodhisattvas and sentient beings are illusory projections.
When illusory projections are extinguished, there exists no one who attains or actualizes. For example, eyes cannot see themselves. Likewise, this nature is intrinsically impartial and equal, yet there is no ‘one’ who is equal. “Because sentient beings are confused, they are unable to eliminate and extinguish all illusory projections. Because of the illusory efforts and activities of those who extinguish and those who do not extinguish vexations, there manifest distinctions. If one can attain accordance with the Tathagata’s quiescent-extinction, there is in reality neither quiescent-extinction nor the one who experiences it.
Virtuous man, all sentient beings since beginningless time have deludedly conceived ‘self’ and that which grasps on to the self; never have they known the succession of arising and perishing thoughts! Therefore, they give rise to attachment and hatred and indulge in the five desires. “If they meet a good teacher who guides them to awaken to the nature of pure Complete Enlightenment and to recognize these arising and perishing thoughts, they will understand that it is the very nature of such rising thoughts that causes toils and anxieties in their lives.
If, further, a man permanently severs all toil and anxiety, he will realize the dharmadhatu in its purity. However, his undermining of purity may become his obstruction and he will not attain freedom and ease regarding Complete Enlightenment. This is called ‘the ordinary man’s accordance with the nature of enlightenment.
Virtuous man, all bodhisattvas realize that this very understanding is a hindrance. Although they sever themselves from this hindrance of understanding, they still abide in this realization. The realization of hindrance is yet another hindrance. Therefore they do not have freedom and ease. This is called ‘the bodhisattva before the stage of the first bhumi’s accordance with the nature of enlightenment.”
--Shakyamuni Buddha, 'The Sutra of Complete Enlightenment', the chapter of the Bodhisattva of Pure Wisdom
http://www.prajna.nl/teksten/onderricht/soetras/complete/06_wisdom.htm -
"For example, eyes cannot see themselves."Originally posted by paperflower:“Virtuous man, the intrinsic nature of Complete Enlightenment is devoid of distinct natures, yet all different natures are endowed with this nature of Complete Enlightenment, which can accord and give rise to various natures. Since these two natures are nondual, there is neither attainment nor actualization. In Absolute Reality, there are indeed no bodhisattvas or sentient beings. Why? Because bodhisattvas and sentient beings are illusory projections.
When illusory projections are extinguished, there exists no one who attains or actualizes. For example, eyes cannot see themselves. Likewise, this nature is intrinsically impartial and equal, yet there is no ‘one’ who is equal. “Because sentient beings are confused, they are unable to eliminate and extinguish all illusory projections. Because of the illusory efforts and activities of those who extinguish and those who do not extinguish vexations, there manifest distinctions. If one can attain accordance with the Tathagata’s quiescent-extinction, there is in reality neither quiescent-extinction nor the one who experiences it.
Virtuous man, all sentient beings since beginningless time have deludedly conceived ‘self’ and that which grasps on to the self; never have they known the succession of arising and perishing thoughts! Therefore, they give rise to attachment and hatred and indulge in the five desires. “If they meet a good teacher who guides them to awaken to the nature of pure Complete Enlightenment and to recognize these arising and perishing thoughts, they will understand that it is the very nature of such rising thoughts that causes toils and anxieties in their lives.
If, further, a man permanently severs all toil and anxiety, he will realize the dharmadhatu in its purity. However, his undermining of purity may become his obstruction and he will not attain freedom and ease regarding Complete Enlightenment. This is called ‘the ordinary man’s accordance with the nature of enlightenment.
Virtuous man, all bodhisattvas realize that this very understanding is a hindrance. Although they sever themselves from this hindrance of understanding, they still abide in this realization. The realization of hindrance is yet another hindrance. Therefore they do not have freedom and ease. This is called ‘the bodhisattva before the stage of the first bhumi’s accordance with the nature of enlightenment.”
--Shakyamuni Buddha, 'The Sutra of Complete Enlightenment', the chapter of the Bodhisattva of Pure Wisdom
http://www.prajna.nl/teksten/onderricht/soetras/complete/06_wisdom.htm
Presence cannot see itself. Total non-duality does not know itself.
"to recognize these arising and perishing thoughts, they will understand that it is the very nature of such rising thoughts that causes toils and anxieties in their lives."
This is what i meant by karmic pattern and thoughtform recognition
Easier said that done, though
All the best to all of us... -
Originally posted by longchen:
hhmm.... i see i see
For example, eyes cannot see themselves.
Presence cannot see itself. Total non-duality does not know itself.
to [b]recognize these arising and perishing thoughts, they will understand that it is the very nature of such rising thoughts that causes toils and anxieties in their lives.
This is what i meant by karmic pattern and thoughtform recognition
Easier said that done, though
[/b] -
Originally posted by longchen:
For example, eyes cannot see themselves.
Presence cannot see itself. Total non-duality does not know itself.
to [b]recognize these arising and perishing thoughts, they will understand that it is the very nature of such rising thoughts that causes toils and anxieties in their lives.
This is what i meant by karmic pattern and thoughtform recognition
Easier said that done, though
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arising and diminishing of thoughts is a serial pattern of our mind...this is the very nature or simply to say the characteristics of our mind function in this manner.
If we cling on to our thoughts and recognise the very thought as real or concrete SOLID, this is where our delusions comes by....when delusions arises, karma arise....if we follow the thoughts n turns into physical actions, karma is completed and results occurs....
No way we could stop this serial pattern...only awareness can helps us stay impartial aware of such ceasing and arising. No suppressing any thoughts arise....no delibrately recognise any thoughts, no self-frabricate any of them...just stay watching like a new born baby looking at objects.
Soon....this practise will softened the wave of thoughts and we no longer bothered by our SELF Mara...
-
Originally posted by longchen:
Hi longChen,
"For example, eyes cannot see themselves."
Presence cannot see itself. Total non-duality does not know itself.
"to [b]recognize these arising and perishing thoughts, they will understand that it is the very nature of such rising thoughts that causes toils and anxieties in their lives."
This is what i meant by karmic pattern and thoughtform recognition
Easier said that done, though
All the best to all of us...
[/b]
Interesting karmic pattern sensing. Before going into it, let us examine the below scenario:-
Someone is suffering terribly from insomnia. There is this fear that always arises whenever he goes to bed. He senses this fear, brings it to the conscious level, recognize it and his rationale tell him that there is no reason for him to fear anything; but fear just simple arises beyond his control. Now, is this fear before or after the arisen of thought? -
Hi Thusness,Originally posted by Thusness:Hi longChen,
Interesting karmic pattern sensing. Before going into it, let us examine the below scenario:-
Someone is suffering terribly from insomnia. There is this fear that always arises whenever he goes to bed. He senses this fear, brings it to the conscious level, recognize it and his rationale tell him that there is no reason for him to fear anything; but fear just simple arises beyond his control. Now, is this fear before or after the arisen of thought?
I think the fear is before the thought. However, the thoughts thinks that they can 'will' the fear... so thoughts tries to stop the fear by rationization... but it won't work...Because the 'sense of self' have no direct control over them.. being in the succession of thought itself. -
Originally posted by longchen:This is similar to my case as well.
hi longchen , paperflowerOriginally posted by paperflower:i can easily fall over to the dark side or the orthodox side. this for a long time i have been aware of....
im in too.
its affinity..i guess.
maybe we even have 'been to the same place'.
have we?
may wisdom shines. -
for me, i think fear is after the thought.
because there is no thought before thought.