Is God A Thing?
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You have gone back to the doctrine of emptiness. Move on... move on...
Can there be inherent emptiness without inherent existence? What is inherent existence? We know what inherent emptiness is... move on; what is inherent existence? Is Buddha inherently empty or inherently existing? The doctrine of emptiness is only for nirvada. The realisation of void in samsara is to immediately enter into nirvada.. samsara and nirvada are not two, not one. They are 2 sides of the same coin. -
If you still want to discuss emptiness, then please do it here: http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=197191&page=1
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1) no. zhen kong is miao you.Originally posted by casino_king:You have gone back to the doctrine of emptiness. Move on... move on...
Can there be inherent emptiness without inherent existence?
What is inherent existence?
We know what inherent emptiness is... move on; what is inherent existence? Is Buddha inherently empty or inherently existing? The doctrine of emptiness is only for nirvada. The realisation of void in samsara is to immediately enter into nirvada.. samsara and nirvada are not two, not one. They are 2 sides of the same coin.
2) same as inherent emptiness or zhen kong bu kong(not nothingness).
3) it is same as inherent emptiness. miao you fei you.
correct, nirvana(spelling) and samsara is on the same side of the coin. the other side is nothingness...not that it's not possible, however that side is consider a demonic state.
one who seek the answer outside the mind is cult follower.
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Can you please post some links to Buddhist scriptures suggesting what you have just said about nothingness and demonic state and cult? ThanksOriginally posted by sinweiy:1) no. zhen kong is miao you.
2) same as inherent emptiness or zhen kong bu kong(not nothingness).
3) it is same as inherent emptiness. miao you fei you.
correct, nirvana(spelling) and samsara is on the same side of the coin. the other side is nothingness...not that it's not possible, however that side is consider a demonic state.
one who seek the answer outside the mind is cult follower.
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Zhen Kong Miao You means emptiness is not a kind of 'neutral emptiness', a sort of void that some may imagine emptiness to be. As I mentioned earlier Emptiness is not 'non-existence', it is not the dualistic opposite/polarity of 'existence', and Emptiness means Emptiness of existence, non-existence, both and neither.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Do not sit with a mind fixed on emptiness.
If you do, you will fall into a neutral kind of emptiness.
Emptiness includes the sun, moon, stars and planets,
The great earth, mountains and rivers,
All trees and grasses,
Bad people and good people,
Bad things and good things,
Heaven and hell;
They are all in the midst of emptiness.
- Hui-neng (638-713) -
Emptiness is used to descrip what?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Zhen Kong Miao You means emptiness is not a kind of 'neutral emptiness', a sort of void that some may imagine emptiness to be. As I mentioned earlier Emptiness is not 'non-existence', it is not the dualistic opposite/polarity of 'existence', and Emptiness means Emptiness of existence, non-existence, both and neither.
(Emptiness is not enough for Liberation. There is no absolute view. The Buddha has never taught any absolute view, or absolute truth. Liberation is not gained by grasping at any view, not even at emptiness.) We need both virtuous methods and wisdom together
Did Buddha not teach absolute truth because there is no absolute truth or it is simply that Buddha did not teach it?
Where is Buddha now? The Buddha that had passed away from this earth? Is Buddha now inherently existing or inherently empty? -
Plus:Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Zhen Kong Miao You means emptiness is not a kind of 'neutral emptiness', a sort of void that some may imagine emptiness to be. As I mentioned earlier Emptiness is not 'non-existence', it is not the dualistic opposite/polarity of 'existence', and Emptiness means Emptiness of existence, non-existence, both and neither.
Verse One
Those whose intelligence has transcended being and non-being and is unsupported have discovered the profound and non-objective meaning of 'condition'. [2]
(The Buddhas, who have transcended the duality of existence vs. non-existence, who are abiding without abiding, have realized the perfection of the meaning of dependent origination, the Union of The Two Truths -- the union of dependent origination and emptiness, the inseparability of appearances and emptiness -- which is beyond all conceptualization, beyond all views, the Middle Way.)
To get there we need a Middle Way gradual path compatible with this inseparability of the two truths -
Originally posted by casino_king:
Furthermore,
Emptiness is used to descrip what?
[b](Emptiness is not enough for Liberation. There is no absolute view. The Buddha has never taught any absolute view, or absolute truth. Liberation is not gained by grasping at any view, not even at emptiness.) We need both virtuous methods and wisdom together
Did Buddha not teach absolute truth because there is no absolute truth or it is simply that Buddha did not teach it?
Where is Buddha now? The Buddha that had passed away from this earth? Is Buddha now inherently existing or inherently empty?[/b]
Verse Thirty
To begin with, a teacher should say to his truth-seeking student that everything exists.
Later, to the student who understands the meaning and is free from attachment, he should say
"All things are void."[7]
(Starting with emptiness is not correct: The path is composed of gradual adapted skillful means. Emptiness should not be presented to a beginners.)
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Emptiness should not be taught to beginners because it will confuse them, therefore basic concepts must be taught first - like karma, dependent origination, must be taught first.
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As to 'did not teach absolute truth', it is because even emptiness is empty.
http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/emptiness.html
Emptiness of emptiness.
In The Art of Living (2001) the 14th Dalai Lama says, "As your insight into the ultimate nature of reality is deepened and enhanced, you will develop a perception of reality from which you will perceive phenomena and events as sort of illusory, illusion-like, and this mode of perceiving reality will permeate all your interactions with reality. [...] Even emptiness itself, which is seen as the ultimate nature of reality, is not absolute, nor does it exist independently. We cannot conceive of emptiness as independent of a basis of phenomena, because when we examine the nature of reality, we find that it is empty of inherent existence. Then if we are to take that emptiness itself is an object and look for its essence, again we will find that it is empty of inherent existence. Therefore the Buddha taught the emptiness of emptiness." -
So what is the Middle Way compatible with this inseparability of the two truths?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Plus:
Verse One
Those whose intelligence has transcended being and non-being and is unsupported have discovered the profound and non-objective meaning of 'condition'. [2]
(The Buddhas, who have transcended the duality of existence vs. non-existence, who are abiding without abiding, have realized the perfection of the meaning of dependent origination, the Union of The Two Truths -- the union of dependent origination and emptiness, the inseparability of appearances and emptiness -- which is beyond all conceptualization, beyond all views, the Middle Way.)To get there we need a Middle Way gradual path compatible with this inseparability of the two truths -
BTW from here onwards I think that it is best that I only ask and do not give you any answers.
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Originally posted by casino_king:
Well up to you
[b]BTW from here onwards I think that it is best that I only ask and do not give you any answers.[/b]
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Verse TwoOriginally posted by casino_king:So what is the Middle Way compatible with this inseparability of the two truths?
First you must reject non-being, the source of all faults. But now hear the argument by which being also is rejected!
(The gradual path: First eliminating nihilism by observing the working of karma, the law of dependent origination; then eliminating realism by realizing the emptiness of all dharmas. Then uniting those two by going beyond the duality dependent origination vs. emptiness. Everything is not existent, not non-existent, not both, not neither. Dependent origination and emptiness, the Two Truths, are interdependent, one cannot exist without the other. They are not different, not the same. They are inseparable, non-dual: not two, not one.)
The real nature of the duality samsara vs. Nirvana
The duality being vs. non-being -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
What are the 2 truths?
[b]Verse Two
First you must reject non-being, the source of all faults. But now hear the argument by which being also is rejected!
(The gradual path: First eliminating nihilism by observing the working of karma, the law of dependent origination; then eliminating realism by realizing the emptiness of all dharmas. Then uniting those two by going beyond the duality dependent origination vs. emptiness. Everything is not existent, not non-existent, not both, not neither. Dependent origination and emptiness, the Two Truths, are interdependent, one cannot exist without the other. They are not different, not the same. They are inseparable, non-dual: not two, not one.)
The real nature of the duality samsara vs. Nirvana
The duality being vs. non-being[/b] -
Most of the things discussed are not in words because it is non dual. It takes many years enough for a person of great capacity to fully realise/actualise it through DEEP INSIGHTS. (meaning for me, it will probably take many many lifetimes). I am very far from enlightened, and what I discuss are some concepts only. As for Nagarjuna's comments that emptiness is not some sort of absolute view, it is because absolute view is dualistic, and it is like, this view is correct that view is not. Emptiness taught in words is only finger pointing to the moon.
I gtg for now.. busy again. -
The 64 verses are excellent interpretation of what?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Most of the things discussed are not in words because it is non dual. It takes many years enough for a person of great capacity. I am very far from enlightened, and what I discuss are some concepts only. As for Nagarjuna's comments that emptiness is not some sort of absolute view, it is because absolute view is dualistic, and it is like, this view is correct that view is not. Emptiness taught in words is only finger pointing to the moon.
I gtg for now.. busy again.
Verse Three
If things were 'true' as fools imagine, why not accept liberation as tantamount (i.e. equivalent) to non-being?
(Samsara is not real: If samsara was real / inherently existent, then Liberation would be like complete non-existence.)
Liberation is gained by transcending this duality
Are the 64 verses the absolute truth?
Verse Fifty Nine
Those for whom the wavering mind does not waver, not even at ** the thought of the void **, have crossed the awful ocean of existence that is agitated by the monsters of the klesas. [12]
(Emptiness is not enough for Liberation. There is no absolute view. The Buddha has never taught any absolute view, or absolute truth. Liberation is not gained by grasping at any view, not even at emptiness.) We need both virtuous methods and wisdom together