Please explain the different levels that can be attained ...
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I am not quite sure if I have understood this right but it seems to me that these are the various levels you can "attain" through the practice of Buddhism (I know attain is not quite the right word) ...
Enlightenment - the ultimate attainment where you have deep insight into interconnectedness, etc.
Higher rebirth - where you do quite well at accumulating positive karma but don't quite attain enlightenment - so you might go to the god realm for example.
Human rebirth - where you get another go at a human life which is quite good.
Animal rebirth - not good because you can't practise spiritually.
Lower realms - not good.
I need to know that if I try to follow Buddhism but I never attain enlightenment will my practise have counted for something and will it increase my chances in the next life at least? Also is it better to be reborn as a human than a god because humans are in best position to achieve enlightenment?
Hope this makes sense - thanks -
Why do hot dogs come in packs of 10 and hot dog buns come in packs of 8?
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All these levels refer to only 1 sequence... NOWOriginally posted by la lapine blanche:I am not quite sure if I have understood this right but it seems to me that these are the various levels you can "attain" through the practice of Buddhism (I know attain is not quite the right word) ...
Enlightenment - the ultimate attainment where you have deep insight into interconnectedness, etc.
Higher rebirth - where you do quite well at accumulating positive karma but don't quite attain enlightenment - so you might go to the god realm for example.
Human rebirth - where you get another go at a human life which is quite good.
Animal rebirth - not good because you can't practise spiritually.
Lower realms - not good.
I need to know that if I try to follow Buddhism but I never attain enlightenment will my practise have counted for something and will it increase my chances in the next life at least? Also is it better to be reborn as a human than a god because humans are in best position to achieve enlightenment?
Hope this makes sense - thanks
All these levels refer to your lifetime... NOW
As long as you are in samsara... everything is empty of inherent existence.
Verse 2 : The real nature of the duality samsara vs. Nirvana The duality being vs. non-being
Verse 3 : Liberation is gained by transcending this duality
Verse 4 : Liberation is gained by seeing through this duality
Verse 5 : Those who do not see reality believe in samsara and nirvana, but those who see reality believe in neither. -
Dear la lapine blanche,
may i suggest that you excercise discernment when reading these posts.
Some are genuines materials, some are fakes.
good luck -
Originally posted by la lapine blanche:
Amituofo!
I need to know that if I try to follow Buddhism but I never attain enlightenment will my practise have counted for something and will it increase my chances in the next life at least? Also is it better to be reborn as a human than a god because humans are in best position to achieve enlightenment?
Hope this makes sense - thanks
the expression goes: the material things cannot be brought to the next life, only karma (be it PURE, good or bad) stay by ur side. practicing the dharma is pure karma.
Buddhahood (turning the wheel of Dharma) can only be attained thru human realms.
can read the "Gradual or Sudden Enlightenment" by Rev.Vajra Karuna.
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/sudgrad2.html
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To attain rebirth in higher realms and to avoid lower realms, basically we have to do two things: to avoid breaking the 5 precepts, and to perform the 10 Virtuous Deeds.Originally posted by la lapine blanche:I am not quite sure if I have understood this right but it seems to me that these are the various levels you can "attain" through the practice of Buddhism (I know attain is not quite the right word) ...
Enlightenment - the ultimate attainment where you have deep insight into interconnectedness, etc.
Higher rebirth - where you do quite well at accumulating positive karma but don't quite attain enlightenment - so you might go to the god realm for example.
Human rebirth - where you get another go at a human life which is quite good.
Animal rebirth - not good because you can't practise spiritually.
Lower realms - not good.
I need to know that if I try to follow Buddhism but I never attain enlightenment will my practise have counted for something and will it increase my chances in the next life at least? Also is it better to be reborn as a human than a god because humans are in best position to achieve enlightenment?
Hope this makes sense - thanks
1. Do not kill
2. Do not steal
3. Do not indulge in sexual misconduct
4. Do not make false speech
5. Do not take intoxicants
10 Virtuous Deeds:
1. Do not kill
2. Do not steal
3. Do not indulge in sexual misconduct
4. No lying
5. No double-tongued speech
6. No abusive speech
7. No irresponsible speech
8. No greed
9. No hatred
10. No delusion
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The Six Realms (which consists of 31 Planes of Existences):
3 higher realms
Heaven
Humans
Asura
3 lower realms
Animals
Spirits
Hell
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But, not only must we perform all that is virtuous, and avoid all that is evil, very importantly we have to develope Samadhi and Wisdom, and to Purify one's mind. This is what sets Buddhism different from many other religions which only emphasizes on 'doing good, avoiding evil' but not so much on 'purifying one's mind'.
Basically there are 4 stages on the path to Arhantship, and 10 stages on the Bodhisattva path to Buddhahood. To even enter the first stage of each path, one has to attain an insight into the nature of reality - the nature of emptiness. There are many different ways to lead one to realise this truth, many different dharma doors of different sects.. there are the zen sect, tibetan sects, vipasanna meditation, and so on. 84000 Dharma doors, and you have to choose one and then keep on practising it.
Lastly, the wisdom and merits you cultivated in this lifetime will not be lost in your next lifetime.
There are only four things we can bring to our next life.
1) Wisdom (Zhi Hui)
2) Blessings (Fu Bao)
3) Cause and Conditions (Yin Yuan)
4) Karmic force (Ye Li)
And yes, there is a higher chance for us to attain enlightenment in the human form, so we must appreciate this human form and cultivate.
The cycles of rebirth is neverending, what you achieve in this lifetime, you cannot bring to the next, and everything will start again anew. You do not recognise your old parents, your old friends, your old spouse. In that new lifetime, they will just look like passerbys and you do not recognise them at all. If one can remember our past lives, one will find it quite meaningless because it is always "me" that is acting out a story, again and again, never stopping. Through practise we can free ourselves from the cycle reincarnation, although the Bodhisattva does not stop here and continues to save sentient beings in Samsara out of compassion.
That is why it is very important to cultivate wisdom and blessings, these should be the higher purpose of our life, and furthermore these are more precious because these can be brought to the next lifetime, you cant bring money, material possessions, your children, your wife/husband, etc, along. -
dear la lapine , your practice will be "stored" and waiting for the opportunities to arise
I need to know that if I try to follow Buddhism but I never attain enlightenment will my practise have counted for something and will it increase my chances in the next life at least? Also is it better to be reborn as a human than a god because humans are in best position to achieve enlightenment?
Hope this makes sense - thanks[/b]
then u will jump when u met
Buddhas ,Bodhisattva or Arhats who can guide u
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Heh why do u think "attain" is not the right word?Originally posted by la lapine blanche:I am not quite sure if I have understood this right but it seems to me that these are the various levels you can "attain" through the practice of Buddhism (I know attain is not quite the right word) ...
Enlightenment - the ultimate attainment where you have deep insight into interconnectedness, etc.
Higher rebirth - where you do quite well at accumulating positive karma but don't quite attain enlightenment - so you might go to the god realm for example.
Human rebirth - where you get another go at a human life which is quite good.
Animal rebirth - not good because you can't practise spiritually.
Lower realms - not good.
I need to know that if I try to follow Buddhism but I never attain enlightenment will my practise have counted for something and will it increase my chances in the next life at least? Also is it better to be reborn as a human than a god because humans are in best position to achieve enlightenment?
Hope this makes sense - thanks -
I think "attain" is not quite right because my understanding is that it is wrong to think of enlightenment as something you achieve, like a medal or a certificate. It is more discovering something inside you that was always there to begin with?
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Yes thats right... no attainment, no attainer, the stages are described as skillful means to lead sentient beings to Buddhahood.Originally posted by la lapine blanche:I think "attain" is not quite right because my understanding is that it is wrong to think of enlightenment as something you achieve, like a medal or a certificate. It is more discovering something inside you that was always there to begin with? -
Actually I do feel otherwise. Attain could still be right cause one meaning is to arrive. There are many stages to go through before one can finally self realise. So it's like a landmark, a target for sentient beings to benchmark. Anyway, these are just language descriptions, which could never describe the actual process leading to it.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes thats right... no attainment, no attainer, the stages are described as skillful means to lead sentient beings to Buddhahood. -
From our sentient being's understanding/relative level of understanding, there are many levels.Originally posted by coolbluewater:Actually I do feel otherwise. Attain could still be right cause one meaning is to arrive. There are many stages to go through before one can finally self realise. So it's like a landmark, a target for sentient beings to benchmark. Anyway, these are just language descriptions, which could never describe the actual process leading to it.
From an enlightened viewpoint, no
Enlightenment cannot be 'attained'.... as stated in diamond sutra many times.
But these guides are also very important, because the different stages are taught so that one can break through them. -
Is it the case that people at early stages need concepts/signposts but eventually you go beyond this ...
I feel confused about this because I am reading buddhist books, trying to understand concepts written by Buddhists, whilst also reading that concepts are meaningless anyway.
Am I right in saying that the concepts are just "skillful means" for beginners like me, of value on one level? -
I personally thought the stages are difficult to conceptualise. It all depends on self cultivational experience. My understanding is that there's no specific description of these stages, it's like once you are there, either you know it or you don't. If in doubt, can approach someone whom you know have that knowledge/wisdom, so that you know you are still on the correct path. Books provides a guideline, and examples, and will help if you can grasp the idea behind it.Originally posted by la lapine blanche:Is it the case that people at early stages need concepts/signposts but eventually you go beyond this ...
I feel confused about this because I am reading buddhist books, trying to understand concepts written by Buddhists, whilst also reading that concepts are meaningless anyway.
Am I right in saying that the concepts are just "skillful means" for beginners like me, of value on one level?
Of course, I could be wrong here. Just voicing out on the perception of someone with close to 0 dharma knowledge..
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They should be applied and practised in our everyday living...Originally posted by la lapine blanche:Is it the case that people at early stages need concepts/signposts but eventually you go beyond this ...
I feel confused about this because I am reading buddhist books, trying to understand concepts written by Buddhists, whilst also reading that concepts are meaningless anyway.
Am I right in saying that the concepts are just "skillful means" for beginners like me, of value on one level?
care to share what buddhist books u read? -
I am reading everything I can by Thich Nhat Hanh at the moment. I tried to read "Zen Keys" but to be honest I am struggling to understand it ... "The Miracle of Mindfulness" is more on my level, it's about how to be mindful/aware in your everyday life.
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GreatOriginally posted by la lapine blanche:I am reading everything I can by Thich Nhat Hanh at the moment. I tried to read "Zen Keys" but to be honest I am struggling to understand it ... "The Miracle of Mindfulness" is more on my level, it's about how to be mindful/aware in your everyday life.
I have other book by thich nhat hanh
tell u later cause it is 4am in singapore time
lazy to hunt for my book in 100 of them in my bookshelf -
Yes, mindfulness should be practised 24/7... it is much an essential thing in Buddhism. It's ok if there are certain things you do not understand, I myself do not understand many things, but when we "attain" enlightenment, the entire Tripitaka will be understood by us.Originally posted by la lapine blanche:I am reading everything I can by Thich Nhat Hanh at the moment. I tried to read "Zen Keys" but to be honest I am struggling to understand it ... "The Miracle of Mindfulness" is more on my level, it's about how to be mindful/aware in your everyday life.
The practise of mindfulness will eventually lead us to realising the truths ourselves, for that to happen, the practitioner's mind must tremendously attentive, vivid, sharp, alive and clear can he then be ready. -
That makes sense. I am content to practise mindfulness for now because I feel that the difficult things will make sense later.
One thing I am confused about though - and it sounds very basic - is Zen based on Mahayana, Theravada or both? Is it ony Theravada that uses the Tripitaka?
Thanks. This forum is great, I'm going to recommend it to my Sangha. -
Zen Buddhism is based on Mahayana. Both Mahayana and Theravada uses the Tripitaka (3 baskets), the major difference being that Mahayana has some additional Mahayana sutras, for example, Heart Sutra, Diamond Sutra, Lankavatara Sutra, Lotus Sutra, Shurangama Sutra, etc etc.Originally posted by la lapine blanche:That makes sense. I am content to practise mindfulness for now because I feel that the difficult things will make sense later.
One thing I am confused about though - and it sounds very basic - is Zen based on Mahayana, Theravada or both? Is it ony Theravada that uses the Tripitaka?
Thanks. This forum is great, I'm going to recommend it to my Sangha.
Btw I recall you were still searching for a sangha the last time you posted... so which Sangha have you joined? -
I have joined a Sangha called the Blue Lotus Sangha which is part of the Community of Interbeing (Thich Nhat Hanh). I am hoping to receive the Five Mindfulness Trainings some time this year.
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Cool.. glad you've found a Thich Nhat Hanh SanghaOriginally posted by la lapine blanche:I have joined a Sangha called the Blue Lotus Sangha which is part of the Community of Interbeing (Thich Nhat Hanh). I am hoping to receive the Five Mindfulness Trainings some time this year. -
Thanks. It's a really helpful Sangha. I'm learning a lot from this forum too, though - it's like my e-Sangha! Lots of v knowledgeable people. Thanks to all moderators who take the time to run it.
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Hi pal how's the weather in Ireland nowOriginally posted by la lapine blanche:Thanks. It's a really helpful Sangha. I'm learning a lot from this forum too, though - it's like my e-Sangha! Lots of v knowledgeable people. Thanks to all moderators who take the time to run it. -
I don't actually live in Ireland, I live in England (although I am Irish)
Heatwave for the past week, now bloody freezing!