Why people don't become buddhist although keen in buddhism
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Recently I find more and more free thinker and people of other religion become interested on buddha dharma. This is a good sign actually, it means they begin to believe the teaching. Their misunderstanding on buddhism is more or less cleared. A lot of scientists, doctors that used to be christian has also converted to buddhism after discovery thru works and experiments that prove the truth of buddhism. Cases of reincarnation and near death experience has further stir up people's interest on this 2500 year old teaching.
What I pondering is although many people interested in buddhism, but some still not taken refuge of the triple gems and start practising the teaching.
I would like to hear your opinions here. What draws you back. Is it because:
1) You afraid once converted, you will be harassed by people from old religion
or
2) You think being a good person is enuf, no need to believe in buddhism
or
3) Don't know how to start
or
4) What other reason you have, pls share with us.
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I am an atheist,
as I have written in this forum before, I do find certain aspects of Buddhism very attractive, but I still shy away from full commitment because I am very much against any forms of organized religion, practitioners of Buddhism themselves are not adverse to blind faith and superstitions, and they can be as closed minded as any other religious nutters (think of sri lanka's civil war, that conflict's as religious as it is ethnic, so Buddhism has it's own cadres of head-choppers too ... )
since I think the most important thing to be a good person is to be open minded and questioning, instead of relying on blind-faith and to have your brain closed by dogma, I think I'm quite comfortable to question and ponder things, rather than subscribing to a fixed set of dogma from whatever religion.
I think someone, relying on his or her own humanity and goodness of the human spirit, would be a better person that someone brain-washed and blinded by dogma transcribed and interpreted by some other human beings. why else do we have suicide bombers and head-cutters then ? (and for that matter, people who exclude others because of differences in faith ? ) ... one thing I can never understand, is why some religions have to rely on blind-faith as a tenet of their religion, if their is the "true" faith, then it shouldn't be afraid of questionings and probings at all, eh ? ....
it is sad, but I often think that religion is the opium of mankind and the root of much of the evil and atrocities in this world ... religion is should be an expression of humanity, kindness and compassion ... but it's often the very thing that snuffs it out ... -
Originally posted by Fatum:
Hi Fatum,
I am an atheist,
as I have written in this forum before, I do find certain aspects of Buddhism very attractive, but I still shy away from full commitment because I am very much against any forms of organized religion, practitioners of Buddhism themselves are not adverse to blind faith and superstitions, and they can be as closed minded as any other religious nutters (think of sri lanka's civil war, that conflict's as religious as it is ethnic, so Buddhism has it's own cadres of head-choppers too ... )
Not everyone in this world is totally adverse to blind faith and superstitions. Even if one believe in a highly logical religion like buddhism, we can't expect a new comer to immediately eradicate all his bad habit.
There are buddhist who don't strictly follows its teaching, but if you compare buddhism to other religions by the percentage of extremist who created religious war, sects fight, killing of innocent, preaching thru invasion, buddhism is still the best.
Believing in buddhism cannot guarantee a person not to do any bad deeds, just like studying cannot always guarantee you a job that you like. It's all depends on your own practise.
Without believing in buddhism, you can't go further in the practise.
As a buddhist, you get to know more dharma friends to remind each other on cultivation, you get to know the dharma door which best suits you.
If you think you can practise alone, you might go the wrong way mistakenly unknowingly.
If you have a dharma teacher to guide you, you might use half the effort and achieve twice as much achievement in shorter time compare to a person without proper guidance.
btw, which aspects of Buddhism you find it more attractive. -
Originally posted by Fatum:
Yes, buddha always teach his disciple to be open minded. He even ask his disciple to question him on the teaching instead of blindly following it.
since I think the most important thing to be a good person is to be open minded and questioning, instead of relying on blind-faith and to have your brain closed by dogma, I think I'm quite comfortable to question and ponder things, rather than subscribing to a fixed set of dogma from whatever religion.Originally posted by Fatum:
Pls take note buddhism is not a dogma based religion.
I think someone, relying on his or her own humanity and goodness of the human spirit, would be a better person that someone brain-washed and blinded by dogma transcribed and interpreted by some other human beings. why else do we have suicide bombers and head-cutters then ? (and for that matter, people who exclude others because of differences in faith ? ) ... one thing I can never understand, is why some religions have to rely on blind-faith as a tenet of their religion, if their is the "true" faith, then it shouldn't be afraid of questionings and probings at all, eh ? ....
Albert Einstein
“The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. The religion which based on experience, which refuses dogmatic. If there's any religion that would cope the scientific needs it will be Buddhism....” -
Originally posted by Fatum:
yup, quite sad that there are many religions that is based on dogmas and indirectly it cause their followers to become emotional and cruel towards different believers even to other sects of same religion... and for cases that involve buddhist, buddhist is always the victim instead of the culprit. Just flip newspaper everyday, you will agree with me.
it is sad, but I often think that religion is the opium of mankind and the root of much of the evil and atrocities in this world ... religion is should be an expression of humanity, kindness and compassion ... but it's often the very thing that snuffs it out ...
Buddha teach us karma, meaning you get the fruit grow from the seed that you sow. We don't believe that a bad karma can be cleared by just faith. If everyone in this world believe buddha's teaching and practise it, a lot of effort and resources can saved, relationship between every human being will be good and our world will become much better. -
Well yes i hav to agree wf u as buddhism is always the victim thru out history. Buddhism is a religion of tolerance because it preaches a life of self-restraint. Buddhism teaches a life based not on rules but on principles. Buddhism has never persecuted or maltreated those whose beliefs are different.Originally posted by justdoit77:yup, quite sad that there are many religions that is based on dogmas and indirectly it cause their followers to become emotional and cruel towards different believers even to other sects of same religion... and for cases that involve buddhist, buddhist is always the victim instead of the culprit. Just flip newspaper everyday, you will agree with me.
Buddha teach us karma, meaning you get the fruit grow from the seed that you sow. We don't believe that a bad karma can be cleared by just faith. If everyone in this world believe buddha's teaching and practise it, a lot of effort and resources can saved, relationship between every human being will be good and our world will become much better.
Buddha always welcomed people to come and observe His way of teaching; not to come and believe it all at once. He actually advised people on how to choose a proper religion, by considering, analyzing and investigating it in various ways without accepting anything through emotion or blind faith. Of course all religions promote faith.
But faith in Buddhism is not a surrender to the unknown; it is not submission to fear and punishment. Buddhist faith is the courageous acceptance of what one has found out through careful observation and analytical investigation. This is why Buddhism is called a doctrine of analysis.
We have full freedom to judge and to think for ourselves whether to accept or to reject anything. We are not bound to accept anything in the name of religion, either simply by thinking of the greatness of a particular religious teacher or by thinking that it is our bounded duty to accept the words of Holy Scriptures or the ways of ancient traditions.
Buddhists are at liberty to investigate for themselves and accept or reject any proposition in accordance to their own conviction, based on sensible reason. Buddhists never say that they are forbidden to do this or that. They simply say that they dislike doing something because it creates some troubles, miseries, pain or disturbance amongst the masses. Conversely, they practice certain good deeds not because their religion asks them to do so, but because they themselves have come to realize the value and meaning of such good deeds for the welfare of themselves and others. -
I am inclined though, but I am lazy lar
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The Teaching is such that it is not necessary for anyone to label himself as a Buddhist to practise the Noble Principles of this religion. So long you yourself find the teaching good, that it is not blamable and when practiced and observed that it leads to happiness then ok liao... No need to attach to the label 'buddhist'Originally posted by laurence82:I am inclined though, but I am lazy lar
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Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
Urm, what that got to do with laziness again?
The Teaching is such that it is not necessary for anyone to label himself as a Buddhist to practise the Noble Principles of this religion. So long you yourself find the teaching good, that it is not blamable and when practiced and observed that it leads to [b]happiness then ok liao... No need to attach to the label 'buddhist'
[/b]
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tot u too lazy to go thru the ceremonial of seeking refuge in the Triple JewelOriginally posted by laurence82:Urm, what that got to do with laziness again? -
I dont think its as simple as lazy to seek refuge in the Triple GemsOriginally posted by neutral_onliner:tot u too lazy to go thru the ceremonial of seeking refuge in the Triple Jewel -
ic...okOriginally posted by laurence82:I dont think its as simple as lazy to seek refuge in the Triple Gems
well i think buddhism is kind of a step by step thing. Cultivation take time. Just take it easy and learn it within ur own pace -
Hi there, just to share some of my opinions.Originally posted by justdoit77:Recently I find more and more free thinker and people of other religion become interested on buddha dharma. This is a good sign actually, it means they begin to believe the teaching. Their misunderstanding on buddhism is more or less cleared. A lot of scientists, doctors that used to be christian has also converted to buddhism after discovery thru works and experiments that prove the truth of buddhism. Cases of reincarnation and near death experience has further stir up people's interest on this 2500 year old teaching.
What I pondering is although many people interested in buddhism, but some still not taken refuge of the triple gems and start practising the teaching.
I would like to hear your opinions here. What draws you back. Is it because:
1) You afraid once converted, you will be harassed by people from old religion
or
2) You think being a good person is enuf, no need to believe in buddhism
or
3) Don't know how to start
or
4) What other reason you have, pls share with us.
What's your definition of taken refuge and practising the teachings? I think it's important for us to understand these 2 definitions.
Very often, the many buddhist I'd met would always stress the importance of going through the ceremony so as to be an official buddhist. But is there official buddhist in the first place? I agree with what neutral_onliner had said that "Buddhism teaches a life based not on rules but on principles". So I suppose one shouldn't constraint to the need in going through the ceremony. Of course there are some exceptions, like my parents who are in their late 50s and both are illiterate, so in order for them to have Faith in the Triplegem, I brought them through the refuge ceremony which I also participated last year. So "officially" I only became a buddhist last year, but to me, I'm a buddhist since 8 years ago.
Many buddhists I'd met often discuss on the issue of practice. Many will think that to practice means must take part in meditation retreat, group chantings, attending talks on by famous monks, become long-term vegetarian, etc. I'm not saying that they are not practice, but I think they are more like complimentary and not the core and primary practice that we should be doing.
Buddha's Teachings is to change our lives. It's the adjustment of lifestyle. The lifestyle is not about going through ritualistic motions but rather how can we deal with life challenges. From the sutras, we know that our root problems are derived from greed, aversion and ignorance, so how can we apply the Buddha's Teachings in our lives? To have lesser greed, one must know the needs and wants in life, and learn to be more generous and sympathic to those who are less-fortunate compare to us, etc. I find that this is then the real practice.
So before we assume others have not taken refuge and/or started practising Buddhism, who knows they may have already been doing it and far better than us, whether or not do they know that what they are doing are buddhistic or not?! It's what we do through our actions, speech and thoughts that determines whether or not are we buddhists. Let not the training ground be defined as temple or shrines, but anywhere and everywhere are training grounds that are giving us the chances and conditions to purify our actions, speech and thoughts. To detach ourselves away from sufferings. -
Well said by yamizi
Btw buddhism is abt understanding ourselves ,understanding happiness,understanding suffering and understanding reality thru seeing things as they really rOriginally posted by yamizi:Many buddhists I'd met often discuss on the issue of practice. Many will think that to practice means must take part in meditation retreat, group chantings, attending talks on by famous monks, become long-term vegetarian, etc. I'm not saying that they are not practice, but I think they are more like complimentary and not the core and primary practice that we should be doing.
Buddha's Teachings is to change our lives. It's the adjustment of lifestyle. The lifestyle is not about going through ritualistic motions but rather how can we deal with life challenges. From the sutras, we know that our root problems are derived from greed, aversion and ignorance, so how can we apply the Buddha's Teachings in our lives? To have lesser greed, one must know the needs and wants in life, and learn to be more generous and sympathic to those who are less-fortunate compare to us, etc. I find that this is then the real practice.
So before we assume others have not taken refuge and/or started practising Buddhism, who knows they may have already been doing it and far better than us, whether or not do they know that what they are doing are buddhistic or not?! It's what we do through our actions, speech and thoughts that determines whether or not are we buddhists. Let not the training ground be defined as temple or shrines, but anywhere and everywhere are training grounds that are giving us the chances and conditions to purify our actions, speech and thoughts. To detach ourselves away from sufferings. -
What practise in buddhism that you are lazy of doing?Originally posted by laurence82:I am inclined though, but I am lazy lar
I think you should do meditation, it is relaxing and nothing much you need to do while sitting in the meditation posture.
You tot all buddhists are like shaolin monk in kungfu drama, every morning wake up at 5am to carry water, practise kungfu, meditation and chanting the whole day, is it?
That kind of commitment although is good, but very few people can accept it.
Actually, if you clearly know the rewards of practising buddhism, you will never feel lazy of doing it.
When one go against the buddhism teaching, he will end up spending more effort to escape from the trouble caused by the bad deeds.
If he follows what the buddha teach, not only he can avoid future suffering, but his good karma will give him a better life for the present and in the future. -
While I agree that practising Buddha’s Teaching should be a daily affair, and venues should not be limited to monasteries, activities such as Dharma talks, meditations are not just important because this avenue will help one to revise the teachings of Buddha that we could have forgotten, or overlooked, such as the importance of mindfulness, awareness etc. These additional “reminders” from the sutras will bring us to the next level of cultivation, and hence, gradually liberating us from our sufferings.
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Buddhism doesnt require you to do rituals, but to be completely aware of your laziness is a good start... it will lead to an inner transformation which will lead to an outer transformation of your lifeOriginally posted by laurence82:I am inclined though, but I am lazy lar
Yes it's not just a matter of taking refuge in triple gems... anyway tat is quite unfortunate....Originally posted by laurence82:I dont think its as simple as lazy to seek refuge in the Triple Gems -
I only want unnatural abilities
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I want to lose my Unnatural Abilities .Originally posted by maggot:I only want unnatural abilities -
We should meet up and I will try to take it from you together with your life forceOriginally posted by NotFromVenus:I want to lose my Unnatural Abilities . 
Which means you will lose years of your life to me...want? -
Example?Originally posted by NotFromVenus:I want to lose my Unnatural Abilities . -
Urm....huh?Originally posted by justdoit77:What practise in buddhism that you are lazy of doing?
I think you should do meditation, it is relaxing and nothing much you need to do while sitting in the meditation posture.
You tot all buddhists are like shaolin monk in kungfu drama, every morning wake up at 5am to carry water, practise kungfu, meditation and chanting the whole day, is it?
That kind of commitment although is good, but very few people can accept it.
Actually, if you clearly know the rewards of practising buddhism, you will never feel lazy of doing it.
When one go against the buddhism teaching, he will end up spending more effort to escape from the trouble caused by the bad deeds.
If he follows what the buddha teach, not only he can avoid future suffering, but his good karma will give him a better life for the present and in the future.
Basically, while of course one of the first steps is to take refuge in the Triple Gems and other rituals, i think people mistake my 'laziness' for 'misconceptions'
Its not that I have misconceptions about Buddhism that steers me away, and I did admonish one chap for trying to say Buddhism is all about kung fu once...hurhur
My laziness stems from laziness in actions. You dont just become a Buddhist just like that. There has to be a step towards learning and practice, you know, picking a book on it, consults a sangha, conscientiously try to put learnings into practice etc etc..
Yeah, thats basically laziness in actions. -
I can tell you the future which you will not believe in ,Originally posted by coolbluewater:Example?
Later which can only come true and unpreventable , coz it is indeed the future.
I would need to be out of sleep for a while and have some relative fate with you to be able to see this.
I wish I don't have to see those again , but I better not tell anyone their future again . Its bad luck and bad Karma. -
Originally posted by yamizi:
Taking refuge meaning you vow to let the triple gems which are buddha, dharma and sangha to guide you the way.
What's your definition of taken refuge and practising the teachings? I think it's important for us to understand these 2 definitions.
Very often, the many buddhist I'd met would always stress the importance of going through the ceremony so as to be an official buddhist. But is there official buddhist in the first place? I agree with what neutral_onliner had said that "Buddhism teaches a life based not on rules but on principles". So I suppose one shouldn't constraint to the need in going through the ceremony. Of course there are some exceptions, like my parents who are in their late 50s and both are illiterate, so in order for them to have Faith in the Triplegem, I brought them through the refuge ceremony which I also participated last year. So "officially" I only became a buddhist last year, but to me, I'm a buddhist since 8 years ago.
It is true that we shouldn't be attached to the label "buddhist", but taking refuge to be a buddhist is more than the label, it is your willingness to be buddha's disciple and follow the teaching.
Form is something that we should give up, even focusing on breath while meditating is also a form, but we need this to deattach ourselves from other forms and thoughts. Only when we are skillful on this, then we can let go the breathing and go straight to samadhi. Well, samadhi is also a stepping stone for us to attain wisdom. But can a beginner let go the form of buddhist, meditation, breath, samadhi and go straight to wisdom directly? Cannot. If we do that, we will go back to samsara.
In sutra, it states that taking refuge to triple gems is one of the criteria to be born in western pureland. Let's not go into ceremony here, different tradition has different ceremony, even during buddha's time, the ceremony is also slightly different from now. It is your vows and attitude that matters. Don't underestimate the power of vow, amitabha vows created western pureland that accomodate countless beings who vows to go there, wisdomless vows make you suffer in next life.
Taking refuge is the 1st door to buddha dharma, although we can't ensure they will practise diligently hereafter, but if we close the 1st door before they enter, it will cause more bad than good for sure. Let's give non-buddhists a chance. -
Originally posted by yamizi:
I only mentioned a few ways of practising. I agree, there are more. To get to know more ways that suits them, perhaps they can join some buddhist organization, they can learn while making more dharma friends.
Many buddhists I'd met often discuss on the issue of practice. Many will think that to practice means must take part in meditation retreat, group chantings, attending talks on by famous monks, become long-term vegetarian, etc. I'm not saying that they are not practice, but I think they are more like complimentary and not the core and primary practice that we should be doing.
Buddha's Teachings is to change our lives. It's the adjustment of lifestyle. The lifestyle is not about going through ritualistic motions but rather how can we deal with life challenges. From the sutras, we know that our root problems are derived from greed, aversion and ignorance, so how can we apply the Buddha's Teachings in our lives? To have lesser greed, one must know the needs and wants in life, and learn to be more generous and sympathic to those who are less-fortunate compare to us, etc. I find that this is then the real practice.
Pls take note doing good deeds and live as a good person will not liberate yourself from samsara, it will only give you good karma so you will go to heaven or have some kind of rewards be it financially, relationship, appearance and so on. If next life, who knows you are provoked by a bad guy or influenced by terrible situation, you may start to kill.Originally posted by yamizi:
I can't assume who has or has not taken refuge or practise. Perhaps those who haven't not, pls consider it.
So before we assume others have not taken refuge and/or started practising Buddhism, who knows they may have already been doing it and far better than us, whether or not do they know that what they are doing are buddhistic or not?! It's what we do through our actions, speech and thoughts that determines whether or not are we buddhists. Let not the training ground be defined as temple or shrines, but anywhere and everywhere are training grounds that are giving us the chances and conditions to purify our actions, speech and thoughts. To detach ourselves away from sufferings.
I went to this dharma centre a few times, they are good indeed, it is located very near to aljunied MRT.
http://www.humanbliss.com.sg/knowledge_activity.htm
JenChen Buddhist Blissful Culture Centre
No. 30 Citiraya Centre, Geylang Lorong 27, #05-01