Why people don't become buddhist although keen in buddhism
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You can use it for good course, right?Originally posted by NotFromVenus:I can tell you the future which you will not believe in ,
Later which can only come true and unpreventable, coz it is indeed the future.
I would need to be out of sleep for a while and have some relative fate with you to be able to see this.
I wish I don't have to see those again , but I better not tell anyone their future again . Its bad luck and bad Karma.
For example, you can take the opportunity to tell them what they should do in order to prevent or reduce the effect of a bad incident.
Nothing in this world is unchangeable, trust me. -
Originally posted by laurence82:
If you can take actions to surf internet and join in the discussions in sgforums. I believe you can do other things that require less actions.
My laziness stems from laziness in actions. You dont just become a Buddhist just like that. There has to be a step towards learning and practice, you know, picking a book on it, consults a sangha, conscientiously try to put learnings into practice etc etc..
Yeah, thats basically laziness in actions.
btw, do you know what buddhism can bring to you in the first place? -
sounds like hard selling...Originally posted by justdoit77:If you can take actions to surf internet and join in the discussions in sgforums. I believe you can do other things that require less actions.
btw, do you know what buddhism can bring to you in the first place?
oh well, nvm
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Hi there,Originally posted by justdoit77:I can't assume who has or has not taken refuge or practise. Perhaps those who haven't not, pls consider it.
I went to this dharma centre a few times, they are good indeed, it is located very near to aljunied MRT.
http://www.humanbliss.com.sg/knowledge_activity.htm
JenChen Buddhist Blissful Culture Centre
No. 30 Citiraya Centre, Geylang Lorong 27, #05-01
I'd been there before, it's a good place to learn Dhamma indeed.
Of course doing good deeds doesn't liberate us from samsara. So does meditating, repenting and chanting, it doesn't liberate us as well.
If you do understand the example I'd quoted, it probes us into looking at the root problem, and the method to eliminate. I don't see being more generous as a way to gain merit. In fact a buddhist shouldn't be going after merits. A buddhist should simply do what is good as it is, and not because it can accumulate a lot of merits. Having the mind of accumulate merits will simply gain no merits at all. Because the supposedly genuine intent will be blinded by our ego self.
As Rencheng's name suggested itself, if we can't even be a good man, how to become a Buddha?
While it's not a bad idea to be aspired to ultimately become Buddha, or even some who claim that they undertake the Bodhisattva's precepts, let's touch our hearts and ask ourselves, how many of us can hold our basic layman 5 precepts and the 10 whole deeds well and good?
Before falling into the mind of escapism, let us ask ourselves is there really samsara to leave at the first place? If so, then Buddha would have jolly well chose to enter Parinibbana when He'd attained Enlightenment. A buddhist aspire to be a Buddha, should like Him, not only having Wisdom but a Compassionate heart as well.
When one's mind is conditioned and detached away from sufferings, then it doesn't make any difference whether he/she is still in the samsara or not.
=) -
Apparently you didn't get my point. I do no underestimate the power of vows. In fact if you want to make a vow, you must have the substance to back it up. Vowing need not go through ceremony. Who insists that vowing needs to be ceremonial? Like you'd mentioned it's the heart and attitude of the practitioner himself. In Buddha's time, when a person want to be Buddha's disciple, simply go to Buddha and tell him you willing to take refuge under the Triplegem, how ceremonial can it be? But I believe Buddha would definitely be more glad that a person understands and apply His Teachings rather than paying lip services.Originally posted by justdoit77:Taking refuge meaning you vow to let the triple gems which are buddha, dharma and sangha to guide you the way.
It is true that we shouldn't be attached to the label "buddhist", but taking refuge to be a buddhist is more than the label, it is your willingness to be buddha's disciple and follow the teaching.
Form is something that we should give up, even focusing on breath while meditating is also a form, but we need this to deattach ourselves from other forms and thoughts. Only when we are skillful on this, then we can let go the breathing and go straight to samadhi. Well, samadhi is also a stepping stone for us to attain wisdom. But can a beginner let go the form of buddhist, meditation, breath, samadhi and go straight to wisdom directly? Cannot. If we do that, we will go back to samsara.
In sutra, it states that taking refuge to triple gems is one of the criteria to be born in western pureland. Let's not go into ceremony here, different tradition has different ceremony, even during buddha's time, the ceremony is also slightly different from now. It is your vows and attitude that matters. Don't underestimate the power of vow, amitabha vows created western pureland that accomodate countless beings who vows to go there, wisdomless vows make you suffer in next life.
Taking refuge is the 1st door to buddha dharma, although we can't ensure they will practise diligently hereafter, but if we close the 1st door before they enter, it will cause more bad than good for sure. Let's give non-buddhists a chance.
Anyway, a real buddhist shouldn't be aspired to be reborn into Western Pureland but should aspire to be always be in samsara as it is the place where Buddhas-to-be are trained.
Of course choosing the easier way out by reborning at other place is individual's choice in the end.
Let's not forget that this very samsara is the pureland of Lord Sakyamuni.
=) -
Aiya conscioutiously put in more effort to overcome laziness lo.Originally posted by laurence82:Urm....huh?
Basically, while of course one of the first steps is to take refuge in the Triple Gems and other rituals, i think people mistake my 'laziness' for 'misconceptions'
Its not that I have misconceptions about Buddhism that steers me away, and I did admonish one chap for trying to say Buddhism is all about kung fu once...hurhur
My laziness stems from laziness in actions. You dont just become a Buddhist just like that. There has to be a step towards learning and practice, you know, picking a book on it, consults a sangha, conscientiously try to put learnings into practice etc etc..
Yeah, thats basically laziness in actions.
Starting part is always difficult de la.
Good things don't come east.
=) -
I knowOriginally posted by yamizi:Aiya conscioutiously put in more effort to overcome laziness lo.
Starting part is always difficult de la.
Good things don't come east.
=)
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During buddha's time, the action of informing the Buddha that you are willing to take refuge, is already a vow taking process, as He has witnessed and accepted your vow to take homage to the Triple Gem.Originally posted by yamizi:Apparently you didn't get my point. I do no underestimate the power of vows. In fact if you want to make a vow, you must have the substance to back it up. Vowing need not go through ceremony. Who insists that vowing needs to be ceremonial? Like you'd mentioned it's the heart and attitude of the practitioner himself. In Buddha's time, when a person want to be Buddha's disciple, simply go to Buddha and tell him you willing to take refuge under the Triplegem, how ceremonial can it be? But I believe Buddha would definitely be more glad that a person understands and apply His Teachings rather than paying lip services.
Anyway, a real buddhist shouldn't be aspired to be reborn into Western Pureland but should aspire to be always be in samsara as it is the place where Buddhas-to-be are trained.
Of course choosing the easier way out by reborning at other place is individual's choice in the end.
Let's not forget that this very samsara is the pureland of Lord Sakyamuni.
=)
It's just like when you decided to get married, you can't do it without a Justice of Peace, because that JP is a witness of your intention to take your partner as your wife/husband.
Likewise, the Sangha is the witness to vow to take homeage to the Triple Gem, because they represents the Triple Gem. After which, itÂ’s up to individuals to realise the teachings and follow the path. -
Originally posted by yamizi:
more like:
Anyway, a real buddhist shouldn't be aspired to be reborn into Western Pureland but should aspire to be always be in samsara as it is the place where Buddhas-to-be are trained.
=)
'buddha taught everyone according to their cause and conditions, like medicine there is no one best way for everyone, that which works for everyone best is the best way' and 'all dharmas are equal in nature with no higher nor lower'
note that there are pureland school reader out there.
ps:
If there are Bhikshus, Bhikshunis, Upasakas, Upasikas, those who seek to be Hearers, Pratyekabuddhas, or those who seek the Bodhisattva Way, he should not torment them or cause them to have doubts by saying to them, "You are all very far from the Path, and will never obtain the wisdom of all modes. Why not? Because are careless and lax in the Way." Further, he should not frivolously discuss the Dharma for the sake of argument. ---Lotus sutra, Chapter 14 : Happily-Dwelling Conduct
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Justice of Peace is needed because it's a social acceptance.Originally posted by path_seeker:During buddha's time, the action of informing the Buddha that you are willing to take refuge, is already a vow taking process, as He has witnessed and accepted your vow to take homage to the Triple Gem.
It's just like when you decided to get married, you can't do it without a Justice of Peace, because that JP is a witness of your intention to take your partner as your wife/husband.
Likewise, the Sangha is the witness to vow to take homeage to the Triple Gem, because they represents the Triple Gem. After which, itÂ’s up to individuals to realise the teachings and follow the path.
I'll stress again that I'm not against in going through the ceremony, but ceremony is just a ceremony end of the day it's one's understand and application of the Dhamma. And I mentioned as well, a person need not go through a ceremony to make a vow. Do you need to go through a ceremony if he'd failed his exams and vows to work harder next time? Having a Sangha to witness does solemnize the event. But I was referring more to what's in the content, rather than doing it for others to see.
There are people who took refuge but in the end convert to other religion. End of the day, it's again our actions, speech and thoughts that matters. -
well for mi i think seeking refuge in the triple Jewels means seeking guidance & advise from them rather than just going thru the ceremony.Originally posted by yamizi:Justice of Peace is needed because it's a social acceptance.
I'll stress again that I'm not against in going through the ceremony, but ceremony is just a ceremony end of the day it's one's understand and application of the Dhamma. And I mentioned as well, a person need not go through a ceremony to make a vow. Do you need to go through a ceremony if he'd failed his exams and vows to work harder next time? Having a Sangha to witness does solemnize the event. But I was referring more to what's in the content, rather than doing it for others to see.
There are people who took refuge but in the end convert to other religion. End of the day, it's again our actions, speech and thoughts that matters.
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I dont see a need to label myself
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Of course, what you've said is valid, especially on the importance of the content of the cremony.Originally posted by yamizi:Justice of Peace is needed because it's a social acceptance.
I'll stress again that I'm not against in going through the ceremony, but ceremony is just a ceremony end of the day it's one's understand and application of the Dhamma. And I mentioned as well, a person need not go through a ceremony to make a vow. Do you need to go through a ceremony if he'd failed his exams and vows to work harder next time? Having a Sangha to witness does solemnize the event. But I was referring more to what's in the content, rather than doing it for others to see.
There are people who took refuge but in the end convert to other religion. End of the day, it's again our actions, speech and thoughts that matters.
One must fully appreciate the significance of the ceremony, and the meaning of taking homage to Triple Gem before committing oneselves.
Back to the vow part, of course for small vows, like to work harder etc, we could do it on our own. But for big vows, like to take precepts, a ceremonial is importance, because each proceedings has it's own meaning, and most importantly, there is a presence of a sangha to be the witness to your intention.
I agree with you that if one went through the ceremony just to perform for others to see, that they might as well not participate in it. -
Just wish to say tis again. i think buddhism is kind of a step by step thing. Cultivation take time. Just take it easy and learn it within ur own pace. As buddhism is not easily understandable, not everyone is ready for Buddhism yet. And it is for this reason that Buddhists gently and quietly strive to share the insights of Buddhism with others. The Buddha taught us out of compassion and we teach others out of compassion
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Originally posted by shade343:
Being a buddhist is not to get the label, my friend.
I dont see a need to label myself
You can ask the buddhists here, why they become buddhist, none of them will say they do it for labeling themselves.
Why you became a free thinker or a christian, I am sure it is not for labeling, right?
As I mentioned, becoming buddhist is the first step
1) When you take refuge to a monk, you will get to know a dharma teacher. Getting a professional practisioner to guide you is a much safer and faster way to progress.
2) Joining a buddhist orgnisation to get to know more friends so you will be in a "cultivation friendly" network.
3) Periodically you get to know more news on dharma talk, retreat.
4) Building up dharma fate (fa3 yuan2) with other people. This is very important if you want to get to know buddhism in next life.
There are many other benefits, I can't list down all.
In case you confuse, I didn't mention ceremony in the 1st post, if you are interested, we can start another post on buddhism ceremony.
Buddhist is definitely not selfish as some people might think, we want to share with other people the dharma knowledge we have.
If you think that the knowledge you gain in this forum is beneficial to you, why not taking refuge and start practising it. -
Agree with you..Originally posted by justdoit77:Being a buddhist is not to get the label, my friend.
You can ask the buddhists here, why they become buddhist, none of them will say they do it for labeling themselves.
Why you became a free thinker or a christian, I am sure it is not for labeling, right?
As I mentioned, becoming buddhist is the first step
1) When you take refuge to a monk, you will get to know a dharma teacher. Getting a professional practisioner to guide you is a much safer and faster way to progress.
2) Joining a buddhist orgnisation to get to know more friends so you will be in a "cultivation friendly" network.
3) Periodically you get to know more news on dharma talk, retreat.
4) Building up dharma fate (fa3 yuan2) with other people. This is very important if you want to get to know buddhism in next life.
There are many other benefits, I can't list down all.
In case you confuse, I didn't mention ceremony in the 1st post, if you are interested, we can start another post on buddhism ceremony.
Buddhist is definitely not selfish as some people might think, we want to share with other people the dharma knowledge we have.
If you think that the knowledge you gain in this forum is beneficial to you, why not taking refuge and start practising it.
Although I do not always rush people to take refuge, but one must have the will the enter the gate of dharma.
As to teacher, it is indeed very important to have a teacher:Originally posted by An Eternal Now:All know the Way, but few actually walk it.
If you don't find a teacher soon, you'll live this life in vain. It's true, you have the buddha-nature. But without the help of a teacher
you'll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher's help.
If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn't need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you're so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you'll understand.
- Bodhidharma -
The thing is, why the need to call yourself a buddhist? Is it necessary to do it so that one can identify and associate with the religion? Buddha didnt call himself a buddhist right?Originally posted by justdoit77:Being a buddhist is not to get the label, my friend.
You can ask the buddhists here, why they become buddhist, none of them will say they do it for labeling themselves.
Why you became a free thinker or a christian, I am sure it is not for labeling, right?
As I mentioned, becoming buddhist is the first step
1) When you take refuge to a monk, you will get to know a dharma teacher. Getting a professional practisioner to guide you is a much safer and faster way to progress.
2) Joining a buddhist orgnisation to get to know more friends so you will be in a "cultivation friendly" network.
3) Periodically you get to know more news on dharma talk, retreat.
4) Building up dharma fate (fa3 yuan2) with other people. This is very important if you want to get to know buddhism in next life.
There are many other benefits, I can't list down all.
In case you confuse, I didn't mention ceremony in the 1st post, if you are interested, we can start another post on buddhism ceremony.
Buddhist is definitely not selfish as some people might think, we want to share with other people the dharma knowledge we have.
If you think that the knowledge you gain in this forum is beneficial to you, why not taking refuge and start practising it. -
Like I said first of all, the will to enter the dharma gate is important. You may think "Oh I think I agree with Buddhist teachings, I like what Buddha said" but whether one actually seriously practises what he said is another thing.Originally posted by shade343:The thing is, why the need to call yourself a buddhist? Is it necessary to do it so that one can identify and associate with the religion? Buddha didnt call himself a buddhist right?
Secondly, taking refuge in Three Treasures is planting a seed in your consciousness. This seed in 8th Consciousness will be brought to the next life, it is a good seed and will create the cause for you to meet a Sangha in a future lifetime again.
And thirdly, taking refuge also means you have found a teacher. A teacher is important for one's path as I have stated above.
and... wow.... there's this spellchecker thing in sgforums now.. its superb!! -
MmM I took the triple Gems and five Percepts in Pali and unknowingly in its signficance then... some of my friends took the vows many times and have many Fa min 'names given my venerable' and some break it for numerous times.Originally posted by path_seeker:During buddha's time, the action of informing the Buddha that you are willing to take refuge, is already a vow taking process, as He has witnessed and accepted your vow to take homage to the Triple Gem.
It's just like when you decided to get married, you can't do it without a Justice of Peace, because that JP is a witness of your intention to take your partner as your wife/husband.
Likewise, the Sangha is the witness to vow to take homeage to the Triple Gem, because they represents the Triple Gem. After which, itÂ’s up to individuals to realise the teachings and follow the path.
It is better to focus on the meaning of the action. u can still cultivate without offically seeking refuge by sincerely practising the five percepts.. However, by taking the refuge has its pro.. for me it will remind me time over time and at least before i am going to breake some percepts, i will at least do some rethinking of my action and be hesitant. it serve as a good reminder to cultivate harder and be more self-discplined to keep the percepts. Practising the Percepts are not easy at all. Taking the refuge is like affirming desire to cultivate is like signing a contract and putting commitment into it.
if you are not taking the first step in seeking refuge in triple Gems, it could be rather hard. Triple Gems has meanings in Buddhism. It is not easy to be liberated from Cycle of birth and death by your own. With guidance from teachers will help you to accelerate the liberation process faster.
Though i don't have a dharma teacher, a someone whom i can seek teachings from or listen to. I still need to read on materials from these teachers and from people whom have are knowledge in buddhism. In a way, im learning from many teachers. Very often all of us cant really learn and understanding Buddhism by our own. -
I'm just stating facts from sutras. I did not discourage anyone though. Anyway, pureland sutras is only one of the many other sutras in the buddhist Tipikitaka, so please do note that not all buddhists are purelanders as well.Originally posted by sinweiy:more like:
'buddha taught everyone according to their cause and conditions, like medicine there is no one best way for everyone, that which works for everyone best is the best way' and 'all dharmas are equal in nature with no higher nor lower'
note that there are pureland school reader out there.
ps:
If there are Bhikshus, Bhikshunis, Upasakas, Upasikas, those who seek to be Hearers, Pratyekabuddhas, or those who seek the Bodhisattva Way, he should not torment them or cause them to have doubts by saying to them, "You are all very far from the Path, and will never obtain the wisdom of all modes. Why not? Because are careless and lax in the Way." Further, he should not frivolously discuss the Dharma for the sake of argument. ---Lotus sutra, Chapter 14 : Happily-Dwelling Conduct
/\
=)
Anyway, the idea of Lotus Sutra is to encourage people to be reborned into samsara so as to practice the bodhisattva-path again and again. -
Why one don't call himself a buddhist, because he has not taken refuge to the triple gems, but why he refuse to take refuge? That is the topic of this discussion.Originally posted by shade343:The thing is, why the need to call yourself a buddhist? Is it necessary to do it so that one can identify and associate with the religion? Buddha didnt call himself a buddhist right?
It is ok if you don't wish to take refuge, perfectly fine with me.
I am just curious and of coz feel pity, no one knows when will you have chance to hear dharma again in the future.
Anyone has other reasons of not taking refuge to the triple gems?
Is it bcoz you don't want to be labeled as buddhist
or
You tot karma only applies to people who believe it. lol
or
you don't think it can benefit you