i need help
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when i try to watch my breath i will automatically want to take control of it and eventually i will have breathing difficulty what do i do about this
especially when i have to sit upright. -
try.. watching that controlling... and then let go bcos breathing is not urs, breathe is not urs, its nature's.
if you really have difficulty with that... maybe switch to chanting for a while and then try again.. -
also my head will shiver a bit after a while by itself neurotically periodically and this breaks my concentration i noticed this since young when going for haircuts
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Then be aware of that shivering, the practise of anapanasati/mindfulness of breathing is to practise awareness, and then in living, try to bring that awareness to our entire being while not only restricting to the breathe.Originally posted by Cenarious:also my head will shiver a bit after a while by itself neurotically periodically and this breaks my concentration i noticed this since young when going for haircuts
How to be aware... anapanasati is not just a form of focusing. There must be the quality of clarity... shi fu says... in practising the dharma, even the tiniest insect - perhaps a mosquito which flies past you, you will be aware. he also mentioned before, meditation in buddhism is not a form of concentration that is practised in other religions... in which he gave an example (not in exact words but along this line):At one time, a meditator exclaimed to the Buddha how great his meditative experience was. He said 500 vehicles passed by, he did not know any of it at all.
500 vehicles passed by, Buddha wasnt disturbed. meditation isnt escaping from 6 sense experience, but be fully aware (and thus undisturbed).
The Buddha replied: I also had great meditative experience. 500 Vehicles pass by, I am aware of every single one of them.
So i believe the point is whether you are shivering or just breathing what matters most is the level of mindfulness.
In terms of anapanasati, we must be so closely aware of the breathing, we must know the sensation, the coldness or warmness of the air, the 'touch' of the air... sense it fully. is there effort required to bring awareness? no... when you drop all labels and wandering thoughts, the breathing itself knows... this is the function of the buddha nature. it takes no effort to see, smell, touch, it takes place by itself, it is awareness itself. no effort to control anything at all...
We are bound to get physical and mental disturbance in meditation especially when we are still not trained in them... it's ok, do not resist them, accept them as it is and be aware. ultimately you're not seeking some kind of great experience in meditation, good or bad doesn't matter, but to remain conscious throughout. if thoughts has been creeping up in your mind, ignore them, dont be interested in them and they will pass. Do not treat as if the thoughts have anything to do with you and they will just fall away.
Anyway good u're starting to meditate. -
Originally posted by Cenarious:
So I assume you are talking about meditation.
when i try to watch my breath i will automatically want to take control of it and eventually i will have breathing difficulty what do i do about this
especially when i have to sit upright.
There are many things that you should and shouldn't do before and after the meditation.
But during the meditation, you have to let go all of these thoughts including your meditation objective.Originally posted by Cenarious:
First you have to adjust your physical position first, only when your posture is stable, then you can go for breath, just let it breath naturally, when your breath is stable, shift the focus to the tip of nose and be mindful about every breath.
also my head will shiver a bit after a while by itself neurotically periodically and this breaks my concentration i noticed this since young when going for haircuts
That's all, whatever happen after this, just focus on your breath and be mindful. In most cases, if have done all these, then your concentration shouldn't be affected by your body and shivering of your head.
I can only tell you the steps, but the actual technique has to be acquired by your own. There are many methods in meditation, best if you can take up a meditation class and guided by a zen master. -
Your description is getting clearer.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:500 vehicles passed by, Buddha wasnt disturbed. meditation isnt escaping from 6 sense experience, but be fully aware (and thus undisturbed).
So i believe the point is whether you are shivering or just breathing what matters most is the level of mindfulness.
In terms of anapanasati, we must be so closely aware of the breathing, we must know the sensation, the coldness or warmness of the air, the 'touch' of the air... sense it fully. is there effort required to bring awareness? no... when you drop all labels and wandering thoughts, the breathing itself knows... this is the function of the buddha nature. it takes no effort to see, smell, touch, it takes place by itself, it is awareness itself. no effort to control anything at all...
We are bound to get physical and mental disturbance in meditation especially when we are still not trained in them... it's ok, do not resist them, accept them as it is and be aware. ultimately you're not seeking some kind of great experience in meditation, good or bad doesn't matter, but to remain conscious throughout. if thoughts has been creeping up in your mind, ignore them, dont be interested in them and they will pass. Do not treat as if the thoughts have anything to do with you and they will just fall away.
Anyway good u're starting to meditate.
Do bear in mind that when we go beyond definition and become untouched by symbols, sound, touch, smell and even forms in meditative experience cannot be differentiated.
True naturalness has no centricity and no point of origination. With a center, there is no spontaneous arising.
Happy experiencing.
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hey keep us updated with ur process..
Have patient =)
all the best -
can i do this without sitting? i think i can do this better in my everyday life
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In Buddhism, we never say that we must meditate. (Sitting) Meditation is one out of 84000 dharma doors... We also do not tell those people who just stepped into Buddhism that they need to practise meditation everyday. For example, you cannot expect ever old person to meditate everyday... We can only encourage them to chant 'Namo Amitabha' regularly. It depends on each individual... In fact not only old people, some healthy adults do not have time for meditation due to busy schedule. That is why shi fu advocates 'Dong4 Zhong1 Xiu1' is very important.
It is true that the most important thing is to practise in everyday living, this is most important, however, it is also told that those who 'receive dharma transmission' (chuan fa) in ren cheng should have the habit of sitting meditation... best is to sit at least 30 minutes everyday. Why... because sitting meditation can develope our samadhi better. It is quite difficult to develope that kind of samadhi in everyday living. And then of course, essentially, after meditation we have to bring that meditative state into the living. This is most important. -
I see..Originally posted by Thusness:Your description is getting clearer.
Do bear in mind that when we go beyond definition and become untouched by symbols, sound, touch, smell and even forms in meditative experience cannot be differentiated.
True naturalness has no centricity and no point of origination. With a center, there is no spontaneous arising.
Happy experiencing. -
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By the way... I think last year I asked you to bring home a green book called 'An Introduction To Jen Chen Buddhist Meditation. That book contains some important advise and tips for meditaiton... do read it again.Originally posted by Cenarious:when i try to watch my breath i will automatically want to take control of it and eventually i will have breathing difficulty what do i do about this
especially when i have to sit upright. -
Take up sleeping style mediation then
Don't need to sit up right
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Ya... then 'visions' start to occur right?Originally posted by maggot:Take up sleeping style mediation then
Don't need to sit up right 
Ok.. but anyway in meditation, a correct posture is quite important. -
You need to sort out the real and the fake visionsOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:Ya... then 'visions' start to occur right?
Ok.. but anyway in meditation, a correct posture is quite important.
While sorting out you will not notice on how you breathing at all
Very refreshing as few or no more dreams will take away your energy
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Visions are really not so important, they can come up often in meditation for some people, but do not be overly excited or attached to them. Do not 'sort them out'.Originally posted by maggot:You need to sort out the real and the fake visions
While sorting out you will not notice on how you breathing at all
Very refreshing as few or no more dreams will take away your energy
Do bear in mind that when we go beyond definition and become untouched by symbols, sound, touch, smell and even forms in meditative experience cannot be differentiated. - Thusness
Mindfulness is still very important... if you lose awareness on your breathing 'while sorting out visions', that is already wrong practise. -
Correction... it is the only important thing.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Mindfulness is still very important...
Other stuff cannot lead you to liberation. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Hmm...so far I have reach the stages as recorded...hmm...tested the stuffs as in the sutras...conducted trials on whether what is real or fake...
Visions are really not so important, they can come up often in meditation for some people, but do not be overly excited or attached to them. Do not 'sort them out'.
Do bear in mind that when we go beyond definition and become untouched by symbols, [b]sound, touch, smell and even forms in meditative experience cannot be differentiated. - Thusness
Mindfulness is still very important... if you lose awareness on your breathing 'while sorting out visions', that is already wrong practise.[/b]
Will think again...
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Very sorry, but I think you need to speak to a meditation teacher.Originally posted by maggot:Hmm...so far I have reach the stages as recorded...hmm...tested the stuffs as in the sutras...conducted trials on whether what is real or fake...
Will think again...
I am not into the Samatha aspect of meditation which is known to produce many nimittas. Nimitta is not the end, it must be used as a means to enter jhana. -
Ok I'm still learningOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:Very sorry, but I think you need to speak to a meditation teacher.
I am not into the Samatha aspect of meditation which is known to produce many nimittas. Nimitta is not the end, it must be used as a means to enter jhana.