what is the name of the part of you that experiences rebirth
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Originally posted by casino_king:If indeed you know, which I seriously doubt since you never contribute anything of substance to the debate, but if you do know, then tell us instead of just making irrelevant remarks.
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Anyway, treasure your experience and just refine the 'reality' that you experience.
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Do you know why I said you are stuck in "reality;" Samsara and nirvana?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Anyway, treasure your experience and just refine the 'reality' that you experience.
You are simply meditating to "see" samsara and nirvana for what it is.
That is not the only purpose of meditation. Meditation is for you to transcend this "reality" that is samsara and nirvana, not ne stuck in it -
one who claims who knows actually doesn't really know.
substantial contribution to a pool of water is not substance, just like one sweep the water suface, images dispersed, nothing goes in.
for ego-centered ones, any substance cannot penetrate into that ego gates blocking the mind, thus always thinking one knows it all and doesn't need or heed anyone else's contributions.
to experience reality, it is from within not by words or from outside. if one is coward to enter the domain of oneself and abstract the true reality, what brave is the one on the outside but only a piece of rock without core. -
If one does not know what nirvana is and yet talk about transcending nirvana, is that right?
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I thought what made buddhism special was that even the most real experience (atman) is empty? transcending that will be undescribable?
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Transcend the duality samsara and nirvana... samsara and nirvana, not 2 not one... samsara and nirvana... one and the same... there is no "knowing" nirvana... knowing samsara is knowing nirvana.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:If one does not know what nirvana is and yet talk about transcending nirvana, is that right?
What is required of you is to transcend samsara... when you transcend samsara, you have transcended nirvana... samsara, nirvana, not one, not two...
You do not spend your whole live meditating on samsara and nirvana... the emptiness of samsara and nirvana... once you realise that samsara and nirvana is empty and not one, not two...
the next step is to transcend it.... what is transcend samsara and nirvana? -
Yes but these people here keep talking about deep meditation and seeing and realising the emptiness of samsara and nirvana and get stuck there.Originally posted by Cenarious:I thought what made buddhism special was that even the most real experience (atman) is empty? transcending that will be undescribable? -
how about learning to walk first before you attempt to do a hike? how many people have the merit to become a full buddha right now? and beyond that will be undescribable so u want ppl to do what? of course take u to the nearest describable thing and then wish u gain the undescribableOriginally posted by casino_king:Yes but these people here keep talking about deep meditation and seeing and realising the emptiness of samsara and nirvana and get stuck there. -
Anyway you have not told me what is nirvana and for this case, I have to tell u, move not even a step.Originally posted by casino_king:Transcend the duality samsara and nirvana... samsara and nirvana, not 2 not one... samsara and nirvana... one and the same... there is no "knowing" nirvana... knowing samsara is knowing nirvana.
What is required of you is to transcend samsara... when you transcend samsara, you have transcended nirvana... samsara, nirvana, not one, not two...
You do not spend your whole live meditating on samsara and nirvana... the emptiness of samsara and nirvana... once you realise that samsara and nirvana is empty and not one, not two...
the next step is to transcend it.... what is transcend samsara and nirvana? -
True, but at least you must have an idea of where you are heading right?Originally posted by Cenarious:how about learning to walk first before you attempt to do a hike? how many people have the merit to become a full buddha right now?
You start by "existence" and "non attachment" and only after that then you start to talk about "non existence." But you can tell the novice in advance that there will be "non existence" teaching coming... so those who are smart can move faster instead of getting confused and stuck over "existence." -
sorry gtg
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if transcending duality is so easily describable then one can start ordering a carpentry company to erect an altar for you to start teaching everyone and soon everyone can become the blessed one easily.
if one cannot grasp the essence of duality 1st, can one grasp the transcendance? and thus one will keep asking around for the answer outside where nothing is on the outside but from within. and by claiming that asking questions to lead people to the answer is not helping nor is it wise at all. not knowing isn't the right path step into seeing reality.
clinging to looking for answers in still stuck in duality. see who is the actual one get stuck.
true knowing is when one does not speak if one knows or doesn't know, silence speaks the truth. -
and thinking of transcending (nirvana and samsara) is still thinking that there is another pole opposite of (nirvana and samsara). in that case u havent even reached nirvana so how can u say u can transcend it?
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when i first saw this thread topic, i was thinking of something.
then i asked AEN, the part that experience rebirth is bardo? he said yes and that there are different terms in calling those stages. from some guidance and understanding, collectively i gathered that it is the 7th consciousness and the 8th consciousness and so on....
while it is confusing for some to understand such stages (because we are still alive), some finds it easy to comprehend. but the real experience comes only during after death where truth faces all (not only one faces truth) thus truth is silence...
as the topic suggest some clearance in better understanding, it seemed to be off focus or off track leading into other topics.
if that person ask about wanting to have relevant remarks, then how about that person ask himself is he relevantly on the right track before pin-pointing at others?
he who says he knows what he knows doesn't really know what he knows and what he doesn't know.
happy discussing
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More precisely, a Chinese Mahayana equivalent of Bardo is called the 'Antarabhava', or 'Zhong Ying Shen'. This is because there is still self-attachment caused by the 7th Consciousness, forming the Antarabhava. This Antarabhava will last 49 days after which, if not yet reborn, will fall into the ghost realm. Every 7 days interval there is an opportunity for it to reborn.Originally posted by paperflower:when i first saw this thread topic, i was thinking of something.
then i asked AEN, the part that experience rebirth is bardo? he said yes and that there are different terms in calling those stages. from some guidance and understanding, collectively i gathered that it is the 7th consciousness and the 8th consciousness and so on....
while it is confusing for some to understand such stages (because we are still alive), some finds it easy to comprehend. but the real experience comes only during after death where truth faces all (not only one faces truth) thus truth is silence...
as the topic suggest some clearance in better understanding, it seemed to be off focus or off track leading into other topics.
if that person ask about wanting to have relevant remarks, then how about that person ask himself is he relevantly on the right track before pin-pointing at others?
he who says he knows what he knows doesn't really know what he knows and what he doesn't know.
happy discussing
My school of buddhism (ren cheng) also shares the same understanding that, if one can recognise the clear light nature, the 7th Consciousness and antarabhava will dissolve and abide in that stage. We call that in pure land terms, Ji Guang Jing Tu, the Pure Abode of Light and Stillness, which is the world of the Buddhas.
See: The Intermediate Stage After Death (article) (although in Chinese)
8th Consciousness as explained earlier is the storehouse consciousness, karmic seeds ripens from there propelling consciousness into various realms of samsara. -
i ever heard this from a layman teacher long ago, that one needs to recognise the clear light in the bardo stage. he ever told me before, that there are also other colored lights such as green, red, blue as well each representing the path light to respective rebirth. he said that during this bardo stage, one is not as awake or in complete control of the firm awareness of as now so he also did advise the ones to practice mindfulness and meditation well when we are alive.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:More precisely, a Chinese Mahayan equivalent of Bardo is called the 'Antarabhava', or 'Zhong Ying Shen'. This Antarabhava will last 49 days after which, if not yet reborn, will fall into the ghost realm. Every 7 days interval there is an opportunity for it to reborn.
My school of buddhism (ren cheng) also shares the same understanding that, if one can recognise the clear light nature, the antarabhava will dissolve and abide in that stage. We call that in pure land terms, Ji Guang Jing Tu, which is the world of the Buddhas.
as for the "zhong ying shen", i also have come across in the mahayana teaching and to verify, well not exactly to verify....:
after my dad passed away, i dreamt of him for 2weeks and on the last few days of the 2 weeks i dreamt he had finally closed his eyes in death like a sign he had let go to move on..... we can't see and know for now, neither can the dead say anything but the consciousness of the mind during sleep, faint, meditating, waking could collectively present an understanding of the ongoing of the mind-consciousness throughout the bardo and taking rebirth.
each day each moment is a rebirth of us not realising also... -
Still got some way to go before Emptiness and Dharmakaya in full can be experienced.Originally posted by Thusness:It is such a blessing after 15 years of "I Am" to come to this point . Beware that the habitual tendencies will try its very best to take back what it has lost.
Get use to doing nothing. Eat God, taste God, see God and touch God.
Congrads.
Must thank you for all the help, Thusness
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Yes there will be various lights, each 7 days there will be a light that can potentially lead you to rebirth. It is also true that the state of consciousness in bardo is quite different from now. Depending on what stage, we will have to use various means to speak the dharma to him. I remember my dharma teacher saying that one needs to speak the dharma many many times repeating over the ears, because in that particular bardo stage he will be in a blur and needs to be repeated many times before he understands.. the mind in bardo stage is also likened to a child's level of intelligence if i can remember clearly. It is also true that one may see different beings according to the karma they manifest. For example my master had actually led many dying people to reborn in Amitabha Pure Land, but in a few cases, those people got led away by the Devas because they were attracted by the devas. It is quite a pity, although devas is a very enjoyable place but nothing compared to Buddha's pure land.Originally posted by paperflower:i ever heard this from a layman teacher long ago, that one needs to recognise the clear light in the bardo stage. he ever told me before, that there are also other colored lights such as green, red, blue as well each representing the path light to respective rebirth. he said that during this bardo stage, one is not as awake or in complete control of the firm awareness of as now so he also did advise the ones to practice mindfulness and meditation well when we are alive.
as for the "zhong ying shen", i also have come across in the mahayana teaching and to verify, well not exactly to verify....:
after my dad passed away, i dreamt of him for 2weeks and on the last few days of the 2 weeks i dreamt he had finally closed his eyes in death like a sign he had let go to move on..... we can't see and know for now, neither can the dead say anything but the consciousness of the mind during sleep, faint, meditating, waking could collectively present an understanding of the ongoing of the mind-consciousness throughout the bardo and taking rebirth.
each day each moment is a rebirth of us not realising also...
Also, it is good that your father has moved on... You may also want to dedicate merits when you attend the Ullambanadharma session. Ullambanadharma dedication should not be mistaken as only limited to those deceased having gone to lower realm, even in higher or deva realm, they will have lasting blessings, those in Amitabha pure land may increase in grade (there are 9 pure land grade). -
Hi AEN
I am overly impressed. At such a very young age, you already know so much about Buddhism.
CM -
I've got one set of Audio CD in mandarin and it describle details about what happens immediately after death - "Zhong Yin Sheng". (The CD prints certified by MCK.)
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Originally posted by paperflower:one who claims who knows actually doesn't really know.
substantial contribution to a pool of water is not substance, just like one sweep the water suface, images dispersed, nothing goes in.
for ego-centered ones, any substance cannot penetrate into that ego gates blocking the mind, thus always thinking one knows it all and doesn't need or heed anyone else's contributions.
to experience reality, it is from within not by words or from outside. if one is coward to enter the domain of oneself and abstract the true reality, what brave is the one on the outside but only a piece of rock without core. so Buddha, Jesus and Modhammed actually didn't know anything?
hmmm.... from within and not by words; so all of Buddha's words are useless? -
Thinking that you can reach nirvana is the most ridiculous concept there is. When you are in samsara you are in nirvana.Originally posted by Cenarious:and thinking of transcending (nirvana and samsara) is still thinking that there is another pole opposite of (nirvana and samsara). in that case u havent even reached nirvana so how can u say u can transcend it? -
Oh? but are you free from all sadness and ego problems in life? will you feel bored if you sit in a room for days?Originally posted by casino_king:Thinking that you can reach nirvana is the most ridiculous concept there is. When you are in samsara you are in nirvana. -
Let it be reminded that any intentional act of creating confusion with respect to spiritual truth will result in negative karma.
In the end, the perpetuator will be confused either by recieving false information or get conned by people like himself/herself.
In the end, who is the loser.
Perhaps, the karma is already unfolding now... with somebody getting all confused.