what is the name of the part of you that experiences rebirth
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Hi sgquitter,Originally posted by sgquitter:very interesting read.
one question regarding the point of reincarnation or rebirth -
rebirth is the word used becoz reincarnation implies a "self".
"there is no 'self' that is the same as us in the past"
if this is the case, why are there so many Buddhist stories about past lives?
Thnks for asking. I would like to extract from the debate of King Milinda. Hope this will answer ur question.
Is the Same Person Reborn?
King : “He who is reborn, Nagasena, is he the same person or another?”
Nâgasena :“Neither the same nor another.”
King: “Give me an illustration.”
Nâgasena: “In the case of a pot of milk that turns first to curds, then to butter, then to ghee; it would not be right to say that the ghee, butter and curds were the same as the milk, but they have come from that so neither would it be right to say that they are something else.”
What is Reborn?
king : “What is it, Nagasena;gasena, that is reborn?”
Nag: “Mind and matter.”
king : “Is it this very mind and matter that is reborn?”
Nag: “No, it is not, but by this mind and matter deeds are done and because of those deeds another mind and matter is reborn; but that mind and matter is not thereby released from the results of its previous deeds.”
king: “Give me an illustration.”
Nag: “It is like a fire that a man might kindle and, having warmed himself, he might leave it burning and go away. Then if that fire were to set light to another man’s field and the owner were to seize him and accuse him before the king, and he were to say, ‘Your majesty, I did not set this man’s field on fire. The fire that I left burning was different to that which burnt his field. I am not guilty.’ Would he deserve punishment?”
king: “Indeed, yes, because whatever he might say the latter fire resulted from the former one.”
Nag: “Just so, O king, by this mind and matter deeds are done and because of those deeds another mind and matter is reborn; but that mind and matter is not thereby released from the results of its previous deeds.” -
thanks for ur answer and examples.
from the examples it seems to me that it is indeed possible to trace a person's past lives, so generally speaking we will somewhat "reincarnate" (although it is noted that we will not be ENTIRELY the same person).
was confused previously. thanks again. -
Thanks for quoting this, I haven't read this sutra so far, but guess I'll do so after see this dialogue. It gives a clear illustration. =)Originally posted by neutral_onliner:Hi sgquitter,
Thnks for asking. I would like to extract from the debate of King Milinda. Hope this will answer ur question.
Is the Same Person Reborn?
King : “He who is reborn, Nagasena, is he the same person or another?”
Nâgasena :“Neither the same nor another.”
King: “Give me an illustration.”
Nâgasena: “In the case of a pot of milk that turns first to curds, then to butter, then to ghee; it would not be right to say that the ghee, butter and curds were the same as the milk, but they have come from that so neither would it be right to say that they are something else.”
What is Reborn?
king : “What is it, Nagasena;gasena, that is reborn?”
Nag: “Mind and matter.”
king : “Is it this very mind and matter that is reborn?”
Nag: “No, it is not, but by this mind and matter deeds are done and because of those deeds another mind and matter is reborn; but that mind and matter is not thereby released from the results of its previous deeds.”
king: “Give me an illustration.”
Nag: “It is like a fire that a man might kindle and, having warmed himself, he might leave it burning and go away. Then if that fire were to set light to another man’s field and the owner were to seize him and accuse him before the king, and he were to say, ‘Your majesty, I did not set this man’s field on fire. The fire that I left burning was different to that which burnt his field. I am not guilty.’ Would he deserve punishment?”
king: “Indeed, yes, because whatever he might say the latter fire resulted from the former one.”
Nag: “Just so, O king, by this mind and matter deeds are done and because of those deeds another mind and matter is reborn; but that mind and matter is not thereby released from the results of its previous deeds.” -
Yes indeed, the Debate of King Milinda is a very good read.
There is a full translation available online by Bhikkhu Pesala: http://aimwell.org/Books/Pesala/Milinda/milinda.html