Are you trying to tell me to be enlightened immediately?
-
You say that I should be compassionate to all other sentient beings because every sentient being dies. However I dont see whats the big deal with dying. What I see right now is suffering of people and people who think they are alone in their suffering therefore making it twice as much suffering. I see many people dying happily/peacefully.
-
Not only dying.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:There is something I need to clarify. The purpose of our learning Buddhism is to distance from suffering and attain happiness. However I do not mean that motivated by death means we must be fearful of death. If we can overcome death by fearing death, then we should all start fearing death together
. Of course that is not going to work. In fact fearing death shows that we are still attached to our life and are afraid of losing it, that we are in bondage. This kind of attachment will only make us trapped in the cycles of Samsara and therefore we seek to transcend it, by recognising Death and conquering Death through the dharma.
By recognising that death happens to everyone, just as Shakyamuni Buddha recognises that there is Birth, Ageing, Sickness and Death, one who has wisdom will see that all things are impermanent and will seek the deeper truth rather than wasting their lives trapped in Dukkha & ever unsatisfactoriness. They will find the truth that sets us free from all bondage, all sufferings, and attain the highest bliss. In fact we all can attain the highest bliss in our lives, as the Buddha has shown and said, Nirvana is the Highest Bliss. The Bliss of Nirvana is the Bliss of Clarity, one who truly tasted it will jump with joy. We do not necessarily need to go somewhere else in an afterlife to experience it, but right here and now.
Back to the question of suffering. Suffering is not only in death, death is only part of life, human life is full of various distresses. (see: The Eight Distresses), in fact sentient beings are almost always suffering from Dukkha unknowingly. However, the Buddha also promised that through the dharma we can find the greatest bliss that is beyond temporary sensual pleasures, unstable, subject to impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and dukkha (see: http://buddhism.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=171090). As long as there is any form of clinging to and craving for anything - whether enjoyable or painful - one will have dukkha. Any form of mental negativities, anxious, despairing, frustrated, irritated, upset, disappointed, discomfort, anguish, painful and disgusted, is also dukkha.
Also, regarding 'motivation'/'aspiration', different people have different 'aspirations'/motivation for walking their path.
For example, those who yearn to be free from Samsara can be considered Sravakas, leading to Arhantship:
One who is afraid upon seeing the suffering of samsara
And yearns to achieve nirvana
But has little interest in benefitting sentient beings—
These three are the marks of the Hearer family.
Those who have great compassion to liberate all beings and lead them to supreme enlightenment are walking the Mahayana path, leading to Buddhahood. Their aspiration includes saving both the inner sentient being and the outer sentient beings.
According to Mahayana, although Arhants are freed from fetters, they still have subtle discriminations of nirvana and samsara, they cling unto the Nirvana dharma and are fearful of returning to Samsara. A bodhisattva transcends that and returns to Samsara to save sentient beings and further cultivate the Paramitas until they attain the Complete and Perfect enlightenment of the Buddha. -
Yes. But since so few people are enlightened, most people still have discrimination and dualism. This causes suffering in life. This scenario makes me want to become enlightened. I dont see whats the deal with dying because everyonie has to die.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Outer inequality is not the primary cause that makes people sick, it is discrimination and dualism that makes people sick.
All dharmas are by nature equal, and empty. If you have payed attention to LZLS near the end of the talk, where she said the 8 things that are equal. -
Well nothing wrong here. But if your motivation is wavered by an improvement in your living conditions, then that is not true motivation.Originally posted by Cenarious:Yes. But since so few people are enlightened, most people still have discrimination and dualism. This causes suffering in life. This scenario makes me want to become enlightened. I dont see whats the deal with dying because everyonie has to die.
(i.e: you: everytime i see an ugly girl that i dont like, my will to become enlightened gets stronger.
Bontakun: What if you see a pretty gal? How will your will to enlightenment be affected?
you: then it weakens.)
Not necessarily ugly girl. -
I'm just living in the present.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Well nothing wrong here. But if your motivation is wavered by an improvement in your living conditions, then that is not true motivation.
(i.e: you: my will to become enlightened gets stronger.
Bontakun: What if you see a pretty gal? How will your will to enlightenment be affected?
you: then it weakens.)
Not necessarily ugly girl. -
And because I'm not enlightened and is living in the present at the same time, I can't see the suffering of pure existence without a stimulus.
-
After a few pages of replying and answering, he will say.. too confusing already. close thread.
then he will open new one...
-
shh, kids dont interrupt adults talking.Originally posted by mhcampboy:After a few pages of replying and answering, he will say.. too confusing already. close thread.
then he will open new one... -
I didn't really say that 'pure existence' (which i presume, your worldly existence in planet) = suffering.Originally posted by Cenarious:And because I'm not enlightened and is living in the present at the same time, I can't see the suffering of pure existence without a stimulus.
Shakyamuni Buddha, in terms of conventional reality, existed 2500 years ago. After enlightenment, not a bit of suffering is left in him. -
No. Pure existence anywhere. Buddha is beyond existing and non-existing.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I didn't really say that 'pure existence' (which i presume, your worldly existence in planet) = suffering.
Shakyamuni Buddha, in terms of conventional reality, existed 2500 years ago. After enlightenment, not a bit of suffering is left in him. -
Don't quite get you. Do you mean 'attachment to existence'?Originally posted by Cenarious:No. Pure existence anywhere. Buddha is beyond existing and non-existing. -
just existingOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:Don't quite get you. Do you mean 'attachment to existence'? -
And what do you mean by just existing?Originally posted by Cenarious:just existing
When I said Shakyamuni Buddha existed 2500 years ago, you said no, then what does it mean by existing? -
ageing and change
-
The deal is only when dying is for everyone, because that means that we cannot stop death by any means.Originally posted by Cenarious:Yes. But since so few people are enlightened, most people still have discrimination and dualism. This causes suffering in life. This scenario makes me want to become enlightened. I dont see whats the deal with dying because everyonie has to die.
And dying means whatever you think you possess, are attached to, will eventually depart from you and you cannot hold unto them forever. Those with wisdom, seeing the nature of life as such, will want to seek an end to our bondage and dukkha. -
if u identity buddha as forms then u got it wrong?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:And what do you mean by just existing?
When I said Shakyamuni Buddha existed 2500 years ago, you said no, then what does it mean by existing? -
Ageing and change is as it is, but is a distress to sentient, unenlightened beings.Originally posted by Cenarious:ageing and change
Similarly, sickness and death is as it is, but is a distress to sentient beings - and any of the 8 distresses are all for sentient beings. Buddha has no distresses.. whatever changes does not affect him. -
That is why I said in conventional reality. In conventional reality, Shakyamuni Buddha was a living person who lived 2500 years ago, who can walk and talk. When we talk conventional things there is always time and space.Originally posted by Cenarious:if u identity buddha as forms then u got it wrong?
On ultimate reality, not only Buddha is empty and luminous, all sentient beings are by nature Buddhas - empty and luminous. The only difference is that one fully knows that reality directly - while the latter, still in ignorance of this reality. -
but those dont distress me so am i enlightened?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Ageing and change is as it is, but is a distress to sentient, unenlightened beings.
Similarly, sickness and death is as it is, but is a distress to sentient beings - and any of the 8 distresses are all for sentient beings. Buddha has no distresses.. whatever changes does not affect him. -
They don't distress you because you haven't got them yet. You are currently not old, not sick, and still quite far from death if all goes well.Originally posted by Cenarious:but those dont distress me so am i enlightened?
The reason why so many people are not awakened is because they do not have the wisdom to see beyond their present enjoyment/stability and take what they have for granted. So they do not even bother to find out about Buddhism or spirituality. -
i also dont see other people being distressed about these things. it is only buddhists that like to keep harping on it.
-
am i not ageing?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:They don't distress you because you haven't got them yet.
The reason why so many people are awakened is because they do not have the wisdom to see beyond their present enjoyment/stability and take what they have for granted. So they do not even bother to find out about Buddhism or spirituality. -
Thats because it so happens that people around you are also like you, havent got to that point yet.Originally posted by Cenarious:i also dont see other people being distressed about these things. it is only buddhists that like to keep harping on it.
Why dont you go to old folks home, hospital, and find out from those diseased and old etc? -
You know intellectually you are ageing, similarly a 5 year old child can intellectually understand that he is ageing, but a 5 year old child is not concerned because his body does not exhibit any signs of old age. He is more concerned of playing with his toys.Originally posted by Cenarious:am i not ageing? -
old folks in old folks home are sad only because their children abandon them. and buddhism cannot remove physical pain just mental suffering.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Thats because it so happens that people around you are also like you, havent got to that point yet.
Why dont you go to old folks home, hospital, and find out from those diseased and old etc?