Heaven & Hell ... No Big Deal!
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All of us end in one place, either heaven or hell. That is the common belief of most religions. Does Buddhism share this viewpoint?
What was the religious thinking in India at the time Of Buddha?“God created everybody; god is responsible for everything; god will reward; god can forgive all our sins; and god is responsible for our lives after our death; god will send us to heaven or he will send us to hell”.
These are the basic ingredients of all religions even today. At the same time there were certain other religions also in India which taught that it was necessary for believers to torture their physical bodies, thinking that they could wash away all their sins during their lifetimes so they could go to heaven after death.
Another religious group encouraged religious rites and rituals and ceremonies and animal sacrifices to please their gods. This group believed that through these practices they could go to heaven. Some others again introduced prayer and worship and asked forgiveness for the sins committed. The Buddha did not recognise the efficacy of all these practices
It was in a religious climate such as this that the Buddha appeared.The Buddha did not promise heavenly bliss and rewards to those who called themselves his followers nor did he promise salvation to those who had faith in him. To him religion was not a bargain but a noble way of life to gain enlightenment and salvation. The Buddha did not want followers with blind faith; he wanted human beings to think and understand.
The world is indebted to the Buddha for the rise of rationalism as protest against the superstitions of religion. It is he who emancipated man from the thraldom of the priests. It is he who first showed the way to free man from the coils of hypocrisy and religious dictatorship.
According to Buddhists, even those who have no “religion” but who live in dignity, with compassion and goodwill can “go to heaven”, that is, experience happiness.
When we are happy and contented we are in “heaven.” When we suffer physically or mentally we are in “hell.” There is no need to wait to die to experience either of these states.
Buddhism is unique because we can talk about this “religion” even without any reference to heaven or hell. I am sure that others cannot talk about religion in this way. The Buddha’s message of goodwill and understanding to all beings is a universal message.
A well known American rationalist who lived a long time ago, once said that to his observation, he would prefer to go to hell rather than heaven, because of the concept maintained by some religionists that all intellectuals, scholars, scientists, psychologists, free-thinkers, rationalists, including the Buddha, were all in hell as they did not believe in their God. He said that in that case, if he happened to go to Heaven, he would feel out of place there without any intellectuals, and heaven would be a very dull place. As far as he was concerned heaven is a place only for those who want to enjoy worldly pleasures without using their brains.
Pls read
Buddhists Concept Of Heaven & Hell -
Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
Quoted for truth.
A well known American rationalist who lived a long time ago, once said that to his observation, he would prefer to go to hell rather than heaven, because of the concept maintained by some religionists that all intellectuals, scholars, scientists, psychologists, free-thinkers, rationalists, including the Buddha, were all in hell as they did not believe in their God. He said that in that case, if he happened to go to Heaven, he would feel out of place there without any intellectuals, and heaven would be a very dull place. As far as he was concerned heaven is a place only for those who want to enjoy worldly pleasures without using their brains.
Would you be able to recall the name of this gentleman? -
hmm... is it Julian Huxley (not sure) but anyway as we noe Buddha neither introduced heaven to create temptation, nor did he create fear of hell to promote Buddhism.According to him, if we do a good thing only aiming at heaven, we are selfish, because according to that motive we would not develop virtues such as compassion, honesty and understanding and would never reduce selfishness and altruistic behaviour. True happiness can only come about when a person completely loses his or her egoistic concept of a Self or “I”.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:Quoted for truth.
Would you be able to recall the name of this gentleman?
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so buddhism is anti-christian?
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Of course not, we just don't share some views of those who believe in creatorism. And I don't think Christianity is mentioned here,, Christianity is not the only religion that believes in creatorism - i.e Islam.Originally posted by Ito_^:so buddhism is anti-christian? -
well. its one of em, doesn't mean i can't use it as an example.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Of course not, we just don't share some views of those who believe in creatorism. And I don't think Christianity is mentioned here,, Christianity is not the only religion that believes in creatorism - i.e Islam. -
Anyway disgree doesnt mean anti. Just that Buddhism does not teach the doctrine of creatorism.Originally posted by Ito_^:well. its one of em, doesn't mean i can't use it as an example. -
Although we may not agree with certain religious points of view they hold, if they are sincere in their efforts to serve humanity and uplift it, we must respect them for it. There are noble people in every religion.Originally posted by Ito_^:well. its one of em, doesn't mean i can't use it as an example. -
Buddhism deny creation - no answer for our origin
Buddhism does not have salvation - no solution for our sins
Buddhism is jus a way of life - for wat when there's no origin, no God and no salvation. -
How Did The Universe Get HereOriginally posted by NT2:Buddhism deny creation - no answer for our origin.
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=200620Buddhism does not have salvation - no solution for our sins. Buddhism is jus a way of life - for wat when there's no origin, no God and no salvation.
According to Buddhism, there is no such thing as sin as explained by other religions. To the Buddhists, sin is unskillful or unwholesome action The wicked man is an ignorant man. He needs instruction more than he needs punishment and condemnation. He is not regarded as violating god's will or as a person who must beg for divine mercy and forgiveness. He needs only guidance for his enlightenment.
All that is necessary is for someone to help him use his reason to realize that he is responsible for his wrong action and that he must pay for the consequences.
Ofcourse there r solutions.
-Understand the 4 noble truths
-Practise the dharma
-Walk the 8 fold paths -
is that your own concept?Originally posted by NT2:Buddhism deny creation - no answer for our origin
Buddhism does not have salvation - no solution for our sins
Buddhism is jus a way of life - for wat when there's no origin, no God and no salvation.
if it is so, i repeat, "IF",
too conceptualising and limited understanding i would say of these statements.
before making such stands, make sure you do your due diligence & research and more understanding to back your knowledge. -
ignoranceOriginally posted by paperflower:is that your own concept?
if it is so, i repeat, "IF",
too conceptualising and limited understanding i would say of these statements.
before making such stands, make sure you do your due diligence & research and more understanding to back your knowledge.
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To be more precise, buddhism deny the concept of god creating human.Originally posted by NT2:Buddhism deny creation - no answer for our origin
Buddhism does not have salvation - no solution for our sins
Buddhism is jus a way of life - for wat when there's no origin, no God and no salvation.
In fact, whatever that can be created can also be annihilated when the condition that created it is gone. If you believe that Jesus god created human in this planet, that means you also believe in annihilation.
Pls don't be naive, Buddha talk about origin of human before, it tells us clearly how the earth is being formed, how did our deva ancestor come to the earth and gradually become a living being with form and worldly attachment.
Buddhism even look beyond the origin of human, we talk about reincarnation and past lifes. There are too many real life cases of reincarnation published. How do you explain babies born with deficiencies in christianity? Is it because the "mercy" god want to show off his power.
Now, not even the roman catholic swears the truth of bible anymore recently.
If they do it earlier, the noble scientist Galileo who tells that the earth is round, would not be tortured to death by the church.
Salvation is christian terms, in buddhism we call it repentance. However, our definition is different. You believe that a serial killer and raper can clear his bad deed by simply asking for forgiveness, no wonder our world is in chaos.
Buddhist do repentance to the triple gems, the bad karma can be reduced to certain extent.
Everyone is responsible for his actions, why people are born in different environment, appearance, salary, social status.
Bill gates is rich because he did donation and other good deeds in his past lifes, not because god like him. A poor woman in africa has no food, because of her bad deed in the past, not because god dislike her.
We want to be in control and change our destiny, we are not creation of any fairy tale story, you get it? -
I posted this yesterday:
Since Unborn, in Buddhism, no creation and origin, nor death.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Our greatest fear is that when we die we will become nothing. Many of us believe that our entire existence is only a life span beginning the moment we are born or conceived and ending the moment we die. We believe that we are born from nothing and that when we die we become nothing. And so we are filled with fear of annihilation.
The Buddha has a very different understanding of our existence. It is the understanding that birth and death are notions. They are not real. The fact that we think they are true makes a powerful illusion that causes our suffering. The Buddha taught that there is no birth, there is no death; there is no coming, there is no going, there is no same, there is no different; there is no permanent self, there is no annihilation. We only think there is. When we understand that we cannot be destroyed, we are liberated from fear. It is a great relief. We can enjoy life and appreciate it in a new way.
- Thich Nhat Hanh: No Death, No Fear
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If you want to know the causes in your past life,Originally posted by justdoit77:To be more precise, buddhism deny the concept of god creating human.
In fact, whatever that can be created can also be annihilated when the condition that created it is gone. If you believe that Jesus god created human in this planet, that means you also believe in annihilation.
Pls don't be naive, Buddha talk about origin of human before, it tells us clearly how the earth is being formed, how did our deva ancestor come to the earth and gradually become a living being with form and worldly attachment.
Buddhism even look beyond the origin of human, we talk about reincarnation and past lifes. There are too many real life cases of reincarnation published. How do you explain babies born with deficiencies in christianity? Is it because the "mercy" god want to show off his power.
Now, not even the roman catholic swears the truth of bible anymore recently.
If they do it earlier, the noble scientist Galileo who tells that the earth is round, would not be tortured to death by the church.
Salvation is christian terms, in buddhism we call it repentance. However, our definition is different. You believe that a serial killer and raper can clear his bad deed by simply asking for forgiveness, no wonder our world is in chaos.
Buddhist do repentance to the triple gems, the bad karma can be reduced to certain extent.
Everyone is responsible for his actions, why people are born in different environment, appearance, salary, social status.
Bill gates is rich because he did donation and other good deeds in his past lifes, not because god like him. A poor woman in africa has no food, because of her bad deed in the past, not because god dislike her.
We want to be in control and change our destiny, we are not creation of any fairy tale story, you get it?
The way you live at present is the effect of your past life.
If you want to know what your future life will be,
What you do at present is the cause of your future life. -
Gd MorningOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:I posted this yesterday:
Since Unborn, in Buddhism, no creation and origin, nor death. -
No Coming, No GoingOriginally posted by NT2:Buddhism deny creation - no answer for our origin
Buddhism does not have salvation - no solution for our sins
Buddhism is jus a way of life - for wat when there's no origin, no God and no salvation.
For many of us, our greatest pain is caused by our notions of coming and going. We think that the person we loved came to us from somewhere and has now gone away somewhere. But our true nature is the nature of no coming, no going. We have not come from anywhere, we shall not go anywhere. When conditions are sufficient, we manifest. When conditions are no longer sufficient, we no longer manifest. It does not mean we do not exist. Like radio waves without a radio, we do not manifest.
Not only do the notions of coming and going not express reality, neither do the notions of being and non-being. We hear these words in the Prajnaparamita Sutra: "Listen Shariputra, all dharmas [phenomena] are marked by emptiness, they are neither produced nor destroyed, neither increasing nor decreasing."
The meaning of emptiness here is very important, it means first of all to be empty of a separate self. Nothing has a separate self, and nothing exists by itself. If we examine things carefully we will see that all phenomena, including ourselves are composites. We are made up of other parts. We are made of our mother and father, our grandmothers and grandfathers, our body, our feelings, our perceptions, our mental formations, the earth, the sun and innumerable non-self elements. All these parts depend on causes and conditions. We see that all that has existed, exists or will exist is interconnected and interdependent. All that we see has only manifested because it is a part of something else, of other conditions that make it possible to manifest. All phenomena are neither produced nor destroyed, because they are in a constant process of manifesting.
We may be intelligent enough to understand this, but to understand it intellectually is not enough. To really understand this is to be free from fear. It is to become enlightened. It is to live in inter-being.
We have to practice looking deeply like this to nourish our awakened understanding of no birth and no death in our daily lives. In this way we can realise the wonderful gift of non-fear.
If we just talk about inter-being as a theory, it will not help us. We should ask: "Piece of paper, where do you come from? Who are you? What did you come here to do?" We can ask the flame: "Flame, where do you come from and where will you go?" Listen to the reply closely. The flame, the piece of paper, is replying by its presence. We only have to look deeply and we can hear it reply. The flame is saying: "I do not come from anywhere."
That would be the answer of the japonica flowers also. They were not the same and not different. They did not come from anywhere and they did not go anywhere. If there is a baby who is lost, we should not be sad. It is because there were not sufficient causes and conditions for it to arrive at that time. It will come again.
- Thich Nhat Hanh: No Death, No Fear -
Good morningOriginally posted by neutral_onliner:Gd Morning -
wah, both of you wake up at what time? 3am?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Good morning -
abt 15min agoOriginally posted by coolbluewater:wah, both of you wake up at what time? 3am? -
Varied. I woke up at 7 today.Originally posted by coolbluewater:wah, both of you wake up at what time? 3am? -
Since early in the morning let's us do a morning E-Chanting...
Abraham samma-sambuddho bhagava
Buddham bhagavantam abhivademi
(1st Bow)
Svakkhato bhagavata dhammo
Dhammam namassami
(2nd Bow)
Supatipanno bhagavato savaka-sangho
Sangham namami
(3rd Bow) -
LMAO... very smart rationalist.Originally posted by neutral_onliner:A well known American rationalist who lived a long time ago, once said that to his observation, he would prefer to go to hell rather than heaven, because of the concept maintained by some religionists that all intellectuals, scholars, scientists, psychologists, free-thinkers, rationalists, including the Buddha, were all in hell as they did not believe in their God. He said that in that case, if he happened to go to Heaven, he would feel out of place there without any intellectuals, and heaven would be a very dull place. As far as he was concerned heaven is a place only for those who want to enjoy worldly pleasures without using their brains.
As i was saying in another thread, if God created man and let us have the rational, logical and inquisitive mind such that I will undoubtly deny Him, that means God does not like intelligent people. He doesn't want intellectuals in Heaven.
Its no coincidence an OVERWHELMING percentage of scientists (the most rational group of people?) do not believe in a Creator God.
Guess I'd rather go to hell too..
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The difference between an ordinary way of life and Buddha's way of life is that Buddha's way of life (i.e 8 fold path) leads to the liberation of sufferings forever, the discovery of the greatest unconditional bliss in life.Originally posted by NT2:Buddhism is jus a way of life
But I do not consider Buddhism as a religion. -
Maybe next time can post it earlier, like around 4am. Anyway, good that you've posted, cos i think some of us really dunno what to chant in the morning.Originally posted by neutral_onliner:Since early in the morning let's us do a morning E-Chanting...
Abraham samma-sambuddho bhagava
Buddham bhagavantam abhivademi
(1st Bow)
Svakkhato bhagavata dhammo
Dhammam namassami
(2nd Bow)
Supatipanno bhagavato savaka-sangho
Sangham namami
(3rd Bow)