It neither Devil nor Sins..It our minds!
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By worshipping and praying, early men(since the time of Buddha) thought they could control the undesirable occurrences and at the same time ensure a degree of protection as reward from these unseen forces or energies.Some others again introduced prayer and worship and asked forgiveness for the sins committed. The Buddha did not recognise the efficacy of all these practices.According to Him, the development of morality and the purification of the mind are the most important points in gaining oneÂ’s final salvation. He pointed out that for a man to be religious he must lead a harmless, blameless, respectable, noble and pure life. The mere act of praying or making offerings does not by itself make a man religious nor gain him perfection and salvation.
Anger, craving, jealousy, grudges and enmity will never be get rid of no matter how much a person worship Supernatural beings or praise through penances, charms, mantras, incantations and invocations and animal sacrifices. We cannot gain bliss by harbouring anger or hatred, selfishness or delusion.
Purity and impurity of our mind depend on ourselves. Neither god nor Buddha, or human being can pollute or purify oneÂ’s mind.Actions condition our happiness or unhappiness and finally secure our salvation. Salvation or deliverance is an individual affair just as each human being has to eat, drink and digest and sleep for himself.
It is not devils or sins but rather it is manÂ’s untrained mind that is responsible for all the troubles, calamities, disturbances, unfavorable circumstances and frictions. At the same time, manÂ’s mind can transform the unfortunate situation of the world and render it a peaceful, prosperous and happy place for all to live - if only he uses his mind properly. Man-made problems must be solved by man himself.
Without blaming anybody else, Buddhism also teaches that man is responsible for his own action. Man should face the facts of life, and shoulder the responsibilities of life by fulfilling his duties and obligations to himself as well as to others
“The Buddha can tell you what to do but he can not do the work for you.” You have to do the work of salvation yourself. The Buddha has clearly stated that no one can do any thing for another for salvation except show the way. Therefore we must not depend on god, and not even depend on the Buddha. We must know what are the qualities, duties, and responsibilities of being a human being. -
Buddhism is a method for controlling the undisciplined mind in order to lead it from suffering to happiness. At the moment, we all have an undisciplined mind, but if we can develop a correct understanding of its characteristic nature, control will follow naturally and weÂ’ll be able to release emotional ignorance and the suffering it brings automatically.Blind faith in any religion can never solve these problems.
If you donÂ’t know your own mind, your misconceptions will prevent you from seeing reality.Buddha teaches that emotional attachment to the sense world results from physical and mental feelings. Your five senses provide information to your mind, producing various feelings, all of which can be classified into three groups: pleasant, unpleasant and neutral. These feelings arise in response to either physical or mental stimuli.
When we experience pleasant feelings, emotional attachment ensues, and when that pleasant feeling subsides, craving arises, the desire to experience it again. The nature of this mind is dissatisfaction; it disturbs our mental peace because its nature is agitation. When we experience unpleasant feelings, we automatically dislike and want to get rid of them; aversion arises, again disturbing our mental peace. When we feel neutral, we ignore what’s going on and don’t want to see reality. Thus, whatever feelings arise in our daily lives—pleasant, unpleasant or neutral—they disturb us emotionally and there’s no balance or equanimity in our minds.
Through meditation we can easily see the truth of all this. Meditation reveals everything that’s in our mind; all our garbage, all our positivity; everything can be seen through meditation. But don’t think that meditation means just sitting on the floor in the lotus position doing nothing. Being conscious, aware of everything that you do—walking, eating, drinking, talking—is meditation. The sooner you realize this, the quicker will you realize that you yourself are responsible for your actions, that you yourself are responsible for the happy feelings you want and the unhappy feelings you don’t, and that nobody else controls you.
When a pleasant feeling arises and then, as is its nature, subsides, causing you to feel frustrated because you want it again, thatÂ’s not created by any Superbeing or any other outside entity. Our own actions are responsible. IsnÂ’t that easy to see? -
Since our minds are the roots of evil, we should all rip out our minds.
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Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
Agree... It is so easy and convenient to blame all our misdeeds on some dubious external evil entity, and to attempt to rectify this by relying on an equally dubious divine entity.
By worshipping and praying, early men(since the time of Buddha) thought they could control the undesirable occurrences and at the same time ensure a degree of protection as reward from these unseen forces or energies.Some others again introduced prayer and worship and asked forgiveness for the sins committed. The Buddha did not recognise the efficacy of all these practices.[b]According to Him, the development of morality and the purification of the mind are the most important points in gaining oneÂ’s final salvation. He pointed out that for a man to be religious he must lead a harmless, blameless, respectable, noble and pure life. The mere act of praying or making offerings does not by itself make a man religious nor gain him perfection and salvation.
Anger, craving, jealousy, grudges and enmity will never be get rid of no matter how much a person worship Supernatural beings or praise through penances, charms, mantras, incantations and invocations and animal sacrifices. We cannot gain bliss by harbouring anger or hatred, selfishness or delusion.
Purity and impurity of our mind depend on ourselves. Neither god nor Buddha, or human being can pollute or purify oneÂ’s mind.Actions condition our happiness or unhappiness and finally secure our salvation. Salvation or deliverance is an individual affair just as each human being has to eat, drink and digest and sleep for himself.
It is not devils or sins but rather it is manÂ’s untrained mind that is responsible for all the troubles, calamities, disturbances, unfavorable circumstances and frictions. At the same time, manÂ’s mind can transform the unfortunate situation of the world and render it a peaceful, prosperous and happy place for all to live - if only he uses his mind properly. Man-made problems must be solved by man himself.
Without blaming anybody else, Buddhism also teaches that man is responsible for his own action. Man should face the facts of life, and shoulder the responsibilities of life by fulfilling his duties and obligations to himself as well as to others
“The Buddha can tell you what to do but he can not do the work for you.” You have to do the work of salvation yourself. The Buddha has clearly stated that no one can do any thing for another for salvation except show the way. Therefore we must not depend on god, and not even depend on the Buddha. We must know what are the qualities, duties, and responsibilities of being a human being.
[/b]
It is hard to face up to the fact that no one but ourselves are to be blamed for our own misdeeds... and no one but ourselves (with Buddha's guidance) can cleanse us of these impurities!
Thats what I like about Buddhism... brutally honest, "in-your-face" truth, and free of human weaknesses! -
Ripping out the brains is not the same as ripping out the mind, and it is not possible to rip the mind, the only way is through purification. Ripping out the brains kills a person but you can be 100% sure he will be reborn again with the same problems.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Since our minds are the roots of evil, we should all rip out our minds. -
Your mind doesn't only consist of evils mah....Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Since our minds are the roots of evil, we should all rip out our minds.
If you find rats in a kitchen hole, do you have to destroy the whole country...?
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What makes you sure that rebirth is 100% sure? What proof you have of karma following a different body?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Ripping out the brains is not the same as ripping out the mind, and it is not possible to rip the mind, the only way is through purification. Ripping out the brains kills a person but you can be 100% sure he will be reborn again with the same problems. -
In fact not only must we do beyond evil thoughts, we must be completely freed from mind and thoughts itself. And the way is not by suppressing. This is truly called 'purification of mind'.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
[b]More on No-Thought:
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/shikantaza.html
III. Also distinctive of Dogen's account of Shikantaza is that it is the practice of "without thinking" (hishiryo): which is also called no-mind (mushin; wu-hsin), the essence of Zen Enlightenment. Here we shall discuss "thinking," "not-thinking" and "without thinking."
A. THINKING (shiryo): This is our habitual tendency to stay in the mode of conceptualizing thought.
1. About "thinking" a) Noetic Attitude: positional (either affirming or negating); b) Noematic Content: conceptualized objects.
a) Noetic Attitude is positional (either affirming or negating): A subject is adopting an intentional stance toward an object and, specifically, thinking about it in either a positive or negative way: "This is an X" or "This is not an X," "Do X" or "Do not do X."
(1) Consciousness is an intentional vector proceeding from a subject to an object. The subject is a cognitive agent.
b) Noematic Content: X is an intentional object pointed to and conceived through our thoughts.
2. "Thinking" can be pictured as follows:
c) Aspects of "thinking":
(1) Subject-object division present: an active subject thinks an object.
(2) Non-immediacy: We do not experience the object immediately but only at a distance, as removed subjects, and only through the thoughts we have of the object.
(3) Non-fullness: We do not experience the object in its fullness or "suchness" but, rather, only as filtered through our thinking about it.
B. NOT-THINKING (fushiryo): About "not-thinking": (1) noetic attitude: positional (only negating); (2) noematic content: thinking (as objectified).
1. Noetic attitude is positional (only negating): Subject is agent seeking to suppress its thinking.
2. Noematic content: The object is now the "second-order" object "thinking about X."
"Not-thinking" can be pictured as follows:
3. Aspects of "not-thinking": Same as for "thinking."
a) Consciousness is still an intentional-vector proceeding from a subject to the object. The subject is still functioning as agent, even if one trying to bring an end to its own agency.
C. WITHOUT THINKING (hishiryo): This is no-thought (munen; wu-nien) or no-mind (mushin; wu-hsin): pure immediacy in the fullness of things as they are.
1. About "not-thinking": (1) noetic attitude: nonpositional (neither affirming nor negating); (2) noematic content: pure presence of things as they are (genjokoan).
a) Noetic attitude is nonpositional (neither affirming nor negating): Consciousness is no longer an intentional vector proceeding from a subject to an object but is, rather, an open dynamic field in which objects present themselves.
b) Noematic content: The object is no longer an object that is the target of an intentional act but is, rather, the object itself as it presents itself within the open dynamic field of consciousness.
c) Aspects of "without thinking":
(1) No subject-object distinction: The subject has disappeared—this being the Zen interpretation of Buddhist anatta or no-mind.
(2) Immediacy: Without a subject standing back, the experience is one of immediacy within the dynamic field of consciousness.
(3) Fullness: Because the object is not filtered through an intentional act, it presents itself in its fullness.
(4) Such immediacy and fullness are genjokoan, "pure presence of things as they are."
It is a serious mistake in the understanding of Zen to refer merely to the "denial" or "cessation" of "conceptual thinking." Regardless of whether or not it can be proven than the pre-Buddhist Sanskrit etymology of the term Dhyana can be shown to have no-thought connotations, the main concern here is the semantic development undergone by the Chinese term ch'an in the course of the production of the Ch'an texts in East Asia.
It is quite clear that in Ch'an Buddhism, no-mind, rather than referring to an absence of thought, refers to the condition of not being trapped in thoughts, not adhering to a certain conceptual habit or position.
The error of interpretation made by many scholars (and by Zen practitioners as well) lies precisely in taking the term "no-thought" to refer to some kind of permanent, or ongoing absence of thought. While this assumption is routinely made, it is impossible to corroborate it in the Ch'an canon. If we study the seminal texts carefully, we do find a description of the experience of an instantaneous severing of thought that occurs in the course of a thoroughgoing pursuit of a Buddhist meditative exercise.
Nowhere in the Platform Sutra, Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment, Diamond Sutra, or any other major Ch'an text, is the term "no-mind" explained to be a permanent incapacitation of the thinking faculty or the permanent cessation of all conceptual activity. (source)[/b] -
And what proof do you have that there is no rebirth and no karma?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:What makes you sure that rebirth is 100% sure? What proof you have of karma following a different body?
I think I discussed this in the forum just a few days ago. If you want to find out proof of reincarnation, do a search on Dr Ian Stevenson's research on reincarnation on the internet. Lots of info can be found. There are also many other reliable sources of findings and research in rebirth/reincarnation. Furthermore, there are a lot of people who do have memories of their previous life. Anyone who meditates deeply can also access their past life memories.
From recent thread: Many, many rebirths..........
Many more in the 'buddhism and science article' topic.Originally posted by concerned_man:Remembering Past Lives
Buddhism is founded on meditation, and meditation can reveal many, many things, especially deep memories from the past. Monks, nuns, and ordinary meditators can reach such deep meditations that they can not only levitate, but they can remember previous lives! Many people can actually do this. When you come out of a deep meditation you have incredible energy. Afterwards you won't be able to go to sleep, nor will you be able to go and watch TV, because the mind will be too full of its own joy and happiness. Moreover, the mind is so empowered that you can make suggestions to it, suggestions that you would not normally be able to fulfil. But empowered by deep meditation, you can follow the suggestions. I've actually taught this special meditation to people on meditation retreats, because on meditation retreats some get deep results. People sometimes get memories of when they were babies, and then of being in their mother's womb. If they are lucky they get memories of when they were a very old person, i.e. memories from a past life! One of the important things with those past life memories is that they are very real to the person experiencing them. It's as if you are back there experiencing it. Anyone who has had a memory like that has no doubt in their mind about past lives. It's not a theory any more. Such memories are like remembering where you were this morning when you had breakfast. You have no doubts that that was you this morning, having that breakfast. You didn't imagine it. With the same clarity, or even greater clarity, you remember that that very old person was you, only it wasn't a few hours ago, it was many decades ago. It was a different time, a different body and a different life. Now if people can do that on nine day meditation retreats, imagine what you would do if you were a monk or a nun, who meditates not just for a weekend, or for nine days, but nine years, twenty-nine, thirty-nine, or fifty-nine years. Imagine how much power you could generate in that meditation. Now imagine how much more power you could generate if you were a Buddha with an Enlightened mind.
Now you know what to do to discover for yourself if you've lived before. Meditate. I don't mean just meditating to get rid of stress and make your self calm. I mean really meditate, deeply. Meditate to get your mind into what we call the Jhānas. Those are deep states of absorption, where the body disappears. You don't feel. You can't see. You can't hear. You're absolutely inside the mind. You have no thoughts but you are perfectly aware. You are blissed out. The method, the instructions for the experiment, are very clearly laid down. Even in my little book "The Basic Method of Meditation" all the steps are there. Follow them, and invest the resources necessary for doing that experiment not just one weekend retreat, but many weekend retreats, and sometimes many years of meditating. If you want to follow that 'scientific method', you have to enter into a Jhāna. And then, after you emerge from that state, you ask yourself, "What is my earliest memory?" You can keep going back in your mind, and eventually you will remember. You will see for yourself the experience of past lives. Then you know. Yes, it is true! You have had the experience for yourself.
The Buddha said he did remember past lives, many past lives, many aeons of past lives. He said specifically that he remembered ninety-one aeons. That's ninety big bangs, the time before and the time afterwards, huge spaces of time. That's why the Buddha said there was not just one universe, but many universes. We are not talking about parallel universes as some scientists say. We are talking about sequential universes, with what the Buddha called sanvattati vivattati. This is Pāli, meaning the unfolding of the universe and the infolding of it, beginnings and endings.
The suttas even give a measure for the lifetime of a universe. When I was a theoretical physicist, my areas of expertise were the very small and the very large; fundamental particle physics and astrophysics. They were the two aspects that I liked the most, the big and the small. So I knew what was meant by the age of a universe and what a 'big bang' was all about. The age of a universe, the last time I looked in the journals, was somewhere about seventeen thousand million years. In the Buddhist suttas they say that about thirty seven thousand million years is a complete age. When I told that to the state astronomer he said yes, that estimate was in the ball park, it was acceptable. The person who was the convener of the Our Place in Space seminar made a joke about the fact that a hundred or two hundred years ago, Christianity said the universe was about seven thousand years old. That estimate certainly isn't acceptable, the Buddhist one is!
It is remarkable that there was a cosmology in Buddhism twenty-five centuries ago that doesn't conflict with modern physics. Even what astronomers say are galaxies, the Buddha called wheel systems. If any of you have ever seen a galaxy, you will know there are two types of galaxy. First, there is the spiral galaxy. The Milky Way is one of those. Have you seen a spiral galaxy? It is like a wheel! The other type is the globular cluster, which looks like a wheel with a big hub in the middle. 'Wheels' is a very accurate way of describing galaxies. This was explained by someone twenty five centuries ago, when they did not have telescopes! They didn't need them, they could go there themselves!
There is a lot of interesting stuff in the old suttas, even for those of you who like weird stuff. Some times people ask this question, "Do Buddhists believe in extra terrestrial beings, in aliens?" Would an alien landing here upset the very foundation of Buddhism? When I was reading through these old suttas I actually found a reference to aliens! It's only a very small sutta, which said that there are other world systems with other suns, other planets, and other beings on them. That's directly from the Anguttara Nikāya. (AN X, 29)What proof you have of karma following a different body?
Also I need to clarify this part. It is not "karma following a different body", but rather, the body manifests due to karma. Our entire consciousness - the first to seventh consciousness manifest according to the ripening of karmic seeds from the 8th Consciousness, known as the Alaya Consciousness or Storehouse consciousness. -
Another part:Originally posted by concerned_man:Come and See for Yourself
If you had just one person who had been confirmed as medically dead who could describe to the doctors, as soon as they were revived, what had been said, and done during that period of death, wouldn't that be pretty convincing? When I was doing elementary particle physics there was a theory that required for its proof the existence of what was called the 'W' particle. At the cyclotron in Geneva, CERN funded a huge research project, smashing atoms together with an enormous particle accelerator, to try and find one of these 'W' particles. They spent literally hundreds of millions of pounds on this project. They found one, just one 'W' particle. I don't think they have found another since. But once they found one 'W' particle, the researchers involved in that project were given Nobel prizes for physics. They had proved the theory by just finding the one 'W' particle. That's good science. Just one is enough to prove the theory.
When it comes to things we don't like to believe, they call just one experience, one clear factual undeniable experience, an anomaly. Anomaly is a word in science for disconcerting evidence that we can put in the back of a filing cabinet and not look at again, because it's threatens our worldview. It undermines what we want to believe. It is threatening to our dogma. However, an essential part of the scientific method is that theories have to be abandoned in favour of the evidence, in respect of the facts. The point is that the evidence for a mind independent of the brain is there. But once we admit that evidence, and follow the scientific method, then many cherished theories, what we call 'sacred cows' will have to be abandoned.
When we see something that challenges any theory, in science or in religion, we should not ignore the evidence. We have to change the theory to fit the facts. That is what we do in Buddhism. All the Dhamma of the Buddha, everything that he taught, if it does not fit the experience, then we should not accept it. We should not accept the Buddha's words in contradiction of experience. That is clearly stated in the Kālāma Sutta. (AN III, 65) The Buddha said do not believe because it is written in the books, or even if I say it. Don't just believe because it is tradition, or because it sounds right, or because it's comforting to you. Make sure it fits your experience. The existence of mind, independent of the brain, fits experience. The facts are there.
Sometimes, however, we cannot trust the experts. You cannot trust Ajahn Brahm. You cannot trust the scientific journals. Because people are often biased. Buddhism gives you a scientific method for your practice. Buddhism says, do the experiment and find out for your self if what the Buddha said is true or not. Check out your experience. For example, develop the method to test the truth of past lives, rebirth and reincarnation. Don't just believe it with faith, find out for yourself. The Buddha has given a scientific experiment that you can repeat.
Until you understand the law of kamma, which is part of Buddhism, kamma is just a theory. Do you believe that there is a God 'up there' who decides when you can be happy or unhappy? Or is everything that happens to you just chance? Your happiness and your suffering in life, your joy, your pain and disappointments, are they deserved? Are you responsible or is it someone else's fault? Is it mere chance that we are rich or poor? Is it bad luck when we are sick and die at a young age? Why? You can find the true answer for yourself. You can experience the law of kamma through deep meditation. When the Buddha sat under the Bodhi tree at Bodhgaya, the two knowledge's he realized just before his Enlightenment were the knowledge from experience of the truth of rebirth, and the knowledge from experience of the Law of kamma. This was not theory, not just more thinking, not something worked out from discussions around the coffee table this was realization from deep experience of the nature of mind. You too can have that same experience.
All religions in the world except Buddhism maintain the existence of a soul. They affirm a real 'self', an 'essence of all being', a 'person', a 'me'. Buddhism says there is no self! Who is right? What is this 'ghost in the machine'? Is it a soul, is it a being, or is it a process? What is it? When the Buddha said that there is no one in here, he never meant that to be just believed, he meant that to be experienced. The Buddha said, as a scientific fact, that there is no 'self'. But like any scientific fact, it has to be experienced each one for themselves, paccattam veditabbo viññūhī. Many of you chant those Pāli words every day. It is basic scientific Buddhism. You have to keep an open mind. You don't believe there is 'no self', you don't believe there is a 'self' both beliefs are dogmatism. Keep an open mind until you complete the experiment. The experiment is the practice of sila, samādhi and pañña, (virtue, meditation and insight). The experiment is Buddhist practice. Do the same experimental procedures that the Buddha did under the Bodhi tree. Repeat it and see if you get the same results. The result is called Enlightenment.
Men and women have repeated that experiment many times over the centuries. It is in the laboratory of Buddhist practice that the Enlightened Ones, the Arahants, arise. The Arahants are the ones who have done the experiment and found the result. That's why Buddhism always has been the scientific way. It is the way of finding out for your self the truth of Enlightenment. -
wow... very good respond
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well no need to. Wat we need is wisdom & knowledge for RIGHT UNDERSTANDING.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Since our minds are the roots of evil, we should all rip out our minds.
pples nowsaday understand the importance of having a healthy body yet they overlook the mind. It is equally important to have a 'healthy' mind
Mind is the forerunner of (all evil) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they.
If one speaks or acts with wicked mind,
suffering follows one, even as the wheel follows the hoof of the draught-ox.
Mind is the forerunner of (all good) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they.
If one speaks or acts with pure mind,
AFFECTION follows one, even as one's shadow that never leaves.
(Dhammapada Verses 1 & 2)
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Just take a look at mankind history, so many wars, intolerance and suffering becos of our hatred, greed , intolerance and delusion. Be it in earth,other planets,hell or even heaven, the same thing will happen.Make no difference.Originally posted by Beyond Religion:Agree... It is so easy and convenient to blame all our misdeeds on some dubious external evil entity, and to attempt to rectify this by relying on an equally dubious divine entity.
It is hard to face up to the fact that no one but ourselves are to be blamed for our own misdeeds... and no one but ourselves (with Buddha's guidance) can cleanse us of these impurities!
Thats what I like about Buddhism... brutally honest, "in-your-face" truth, and free of human weaknesses!
From first verse of the Dhammapada which states:
‘All[mental]states have mind as their forerunner, mind is their chief, and they are mind-made. If one speaks or acts, with a defiled mind, suffering follows one even as the wheel follows the hoof of the draught-ox’.
Tolerance must be practised if peace is to come to this earth. Force and compulsion will only create intolerance. To establish peace and harmony among mankind, each and everyone must first learn to practise the ways leading to the extinction of hatred, greed and delusion, the roots of all evil forces. If mankind can eradicate these evil forces, tolerance and peace will come to this restless world.
Buddhists understand that without inner peace outer peace is impossible. We all wish for world peace, but world peace will never be achieved unless people first establish peace within their own minds. Only by creating peace within our own mind and helping others to do the same can we hope to achieve peace in this world. -
Originally posted by neutral_onliner:
Since all evil or good are made by the human mind, removing the mind will solve all dilemmas.
well no need to. Wat we need is wisdom & knowledge for [b]RIGHT UNDERSTANDING.
pples nowsaday understand the importance of having a healthy body yet they overlook the mind. It is equally important to have a 'healthy' mind
Mind is the forerunner of (all evil) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they.
If one speaks or acts with wicked mind,
suffering follows one, even as the wheel follows the hoof of the draught-ox.
Mind is the forerunner of (all good) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they.
If one speaks or acts with pure mind,
AFFECTION follows one, even as one's shadow that never leaves.
(Dhammapada Verses 1 & 2)[/b] -
'Cleanse' the mind is a more correct term. 'Removal of mind' can cause confusion, because the suppressing of thoughts is not the correct way, as suppressed thoughts will return eventually. Or making someone 'unconsciousness' like sleep or coma, but his 7th consciousness is still surviving and will one day revive as the same person or in an afterlife which I have explained earlier.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Since all evil or good are made by the human mind, removing the mind will solve all dilemmas.
Enlightenment in Buddhism will reach a state of no-mind, but the word "no-mind" or "no-thought" can cause confusion. As my article I pasted said, no-mind, rather than referring to an absence of thought, refers to the condition of not being trapped in thoughts, not adhering to a certain conceptual habit or position. -
well saidOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:'Cleanse' the mind is a more correct term. 'Removal of mind' can cause confusion, because the suppressing of thoughts is not the correct way, as suppressed thoughts will return eventually. Or making someone 'unconsciousness' like sleep or coma, but his 7th consciousness is still surviving and will one day revive as the same person or in an afterlife which I have explained earlier.
Enlightenment in Buddhism will reach a state of no-mind, but the word "no-mind" or "no-thought" can cause confusion. As my article I pasted said, no-mind, rather than referring to an absence of thought, refers to the condition of not being trapped in thoughts, not adhering to a certain conceptual habit or position. -
From a highly realised ex-moderator, Namelessness (he no longer posts in this forum) explaining a quintessential part of the Platform Sutra:
No thought, no form and no attachment is the quintessence of the Sutra. But it is not annihilation. It means to be detached from all thought, form and attachment.Originally posted by namelessness:Good Friends, it has been the tradition of our school to take 'No Thought' as the object, 'No Form' as the basis, and 'No Attachment' as the fundamental principle. 'No Form' means to be apart from the notion of forms when in contact with forms. 'No Thought' means to be away from thought when thought arises. 'No Attachment' is the characteristic of our nature. All things - good or bad, beautiful or ugly - should be treated as void. Even in time of disputes and quarrels we should treat our intimates and our enemies alike and never think of retaliation. From thought to thought, let the past be dead. If we allow our thoughts, past, present, and future, to link up in a series, it is called confinement. If we never let our mind attach to anything from thought to thought, and there will be no confinement. This is why 'No Attachment' is taken as the fundamental principle. Good Friends, to free ourselves from all external forms is called 'No Form'. When we are in a position to do so, the nature of Dharma will be pure. This is why 'No Form' is taken as the basis.Good Friends, to keep our mind free from defilement under all circumstances is called 'No Thought'. Our mind should stand aloof from circumstances, and allow no reaction to our mind from circumstances. But it is a great mistake to suppress our mind from all thinking; for even if we succeed in getting rid of all thoughts, and die immediately thereafter, still we shall be reincarnated elsewhere. Mark this, treaders of the Path. It is bad enough for a man to commit blunders from not knowing the meaning of the Dharma, but how much worse would it be to encourage others to follow suit? Being deluded, he sees not and in addition he blasphemes the Buddhist Canon. Therefore 'No Thought' is taken as the object.
Here the patriarch taught us how to be away from our thought. This is difficult because it will take us many years to practice that. But after that, our thoughts would be vanished naturally. That’s how ‘No thought’ can be accomplished. So it is not wise to suppress our mind from thinking, for whatever is suppressed will definitely strike back.
Good Friends, let me explain more fully why we take 'No Thought' as our object. It is because there is a type of man under delusion who boasts of the realization of the Self-nature; but being carried away by circumstances, ideas rise in his mind, followed by erroneous views that are the source of all sorts of false notions and defilements. In the Self-nature, there is intrinsically nothing to be attained. To say that there is attainment, and to talk thoughtlessly on merits or demerits are erroneous views and defilements. For this reason we take 'No Thought' as the object of our School.
Good Friends, what is that should be 'No'? What is that should be 'Thought'? 'No' means to have no dualistic and all defiling conceptions. 'Thought' means to fix our mind on the true nature of Tathata, for Tathata is the quintessence of thought, and thought is the result of the activity of Tathata. It is the positive essence of Tathata - not the sense organs - which gives rise to 'thought'. Tathata bears its own attribute, and therefore it can give rise to 'thought'. Without Tathata the sense organs and the sense objects would perish immediately.
Good Friends, because it is the attribute of Tathata which gives rise to 'thought', our sense organs - in spite of their functioning in seeing, hearing, touching, knowing, etc. - need not be tainted or defiled in all circumstances, and our true nature may be 'self-manifested' all the time. Therefore the Sutra says, "Even all Dharmas can be easily distinguished, the 'First Principle' is still immovable"
We still need to distinquish things in order to survive. The key to non-duality is to find our inner An-Hsiang first, and let An-Hsiang be the only response we have to all circumstances.
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What confusion can there be when there's no mind to even process thoughts?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:'Cleanse' the mind is a more correct term. 'Removal of mind' can cause confusion, because the suppressing of thoughts is not the correct way, as suppressed thoughts will return eventually. Or making someone 'unconsciousness' like sleep or coma, but his 7th consciousness is still surviving and will one day revive as the same person or in an afterlife which I have explained earlier.
Enlightenment in Buddhism will reach a state of no-mind, but the word "no-mind" or "no-thought" can cause confusion. As my article I pasted said, no-mind, rather than referring to an absence of thought, refers to the condition of not being trapped in thoughts, not adhering to a certain conceptual habit or position. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:What confusion can there be when there's no mind to even process thoughts?
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
The answer was already given
no-mind, rather than referring to an absence of thought, refers to the condition of not being trapped in thoughts, not adhering to a certain conceptual habit or position. -
Are you your answer fits the question? I stated that the mind is already removed, so where comes the confusion?Originally posted by neutral_onliner:The answer was already given -
Hi Herzog ,Where is the need to removed the mind ?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Are you your answer fits the question? I stated that the mind is already removed, so where comes the confusion?
Do you think when u have ill intention to harm someone , will you removed the mind ,or you would rather removed the Growing thoughts from it
My advice is to follow Buddha Sakyamuni Advice in Sutra of 42 Chapter31. The Buddha said, "There was once a man who, being in despair over his inability to control his passions, wished to multilate himself." The Buddha said to Him, "Better destroy your own evil thoughts than do harm to your own person. The mind is lord. When the lord himself is claimed the servant will themselves be yielding. If your mind is purified of evil passions, what avails it to multilate yourself?"
http://www.mahabodhi.net/sayings.htm
Thereupon, the Buddha recited the gatha: "Passions grow from the will, The will grows from thought and imagination. When both are calmed, There is neither sensualism nor transmigration." -
Like I said before, unconscious (i.e first 6 consciousness stop functioning) does not mean the 7th consciousness has ceased. The 7th consciousness will still be reborn in other realms. So annihilation and suicide should not be the option for Buddhists, knowing that there is rebirth.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:What confusion can there be when there's no mind to even process thoughts? -
When the body still exist but the mind do not, then it is total annihilation of will and thought.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Like I said before, unconscious (i.e first 6 consciousness stop functioning) does not mean the 7th consciousness has ceased. The 7th consciousness will still be reborn in other realms. So annihilation and suicide should not be the option for Buddhists, knowing that there is rebirth. -
Yes, that is unconsciousness/coma but the 7th consciousness is still working and functioning.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:When the body still exist but the mind do not, then it is total annihilation of will and thought. -
Where is the 7th consciouness located? If you say that it's in the mind, then you are contradicting yourself. If you say it's in the body, then how can a body have 2 wills?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes, that is unconsciousness/coma but the 7th consciousness is still working and functioning.