Living in the present
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Just want to clarify this. Generally I understand the concept of living in the present moment, feeling current sensations and feelings, being aware of thoughts, etc. But there are a few examples that confuse me:
1. I am a teacher and I spend a large amount of my working time planning tomorrow's lessons or next week's lessons. This is necessary for my job. Does this mean I am not living in the present?
2. If you are an academic and your career involves researching abstract concepts, thinking about them, writing research on them, does this mean you are escaping from the present by doing this?
3. If you enter the "flow state" (popular term in American psychology, meaning losing all sense of time because you are so absorbed in what you're doing) would that be bad in Buddhism because you lost track of time passing and therefore the present reality? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
thanks
LB -
There is 2 likelihood i wish to bring upOriginally posted by la lapine blanche:Just want to clarify this. Generally I understand the concept of living in the present moment, feeling current sensations and feelings, being aware of thoughts, etc. But there are a few examples that confuse me:
1. I am a teacher and I spend a large amount of my working time planning tomorrow's lessons or next week's lessons. This is necessary for my job. Does this mean I am not living in the present?
2. If you are an academic and your career involves researching abstract concepts, thinking about them, writing research on them, does this mean you are escaping from the present by doing this?
3. If you enter the "flow state" (popular term in American psychology, meaning losing all sense of time because you are so absorbed in what you're doing) would that be bad in Buddhism because you lost track of time passing and therefore the present reality? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
thanks
LB
this are not my experience
I follow the various master teaching in Mahayana and Vajrayana
First, If you lost track of time ,that will have to depend on whether you are aware of what happen
If you are driving or operating dangerous machinery , this idea is quite dangerous ,as it could cost your life
Awareness of what you are doing and unaware of what you are doing are 2 different thing
You could be absorbed in reading a chapter on Buddha teaching and full of Dharma joy
Only if you understand what u are reading
But if you arent that understood on underlying meaning in Buddha, you could be lost
A popular Chan (Zen) Saying by Patriahc Hui Neng
When the Mind is confused ,one who read Lotus Sutra being "lead around aimlessly by Lotus Sutra
When the Mind is Clear ,one who read Lotus Sutra absorbed and applied correctly what is written in Lotus Sutra -
I am not an experienced practitioner, but form what I learnt from my master, as long as there is the 'clarity' aspect - the awareness aspect, it will not be dangerous. But if you enter certain state of samadhi, it is dangerous because in a state of samadhi you lose even the clarity aspect and enter into a state of absorption. Then if you drive your car, you will get into accidents.Originally posted by la lapine blanche:Just want to clarify this. Generally I understand the concept of living in the present moment, feeling current sensations and feelings, being aware of thoughts, etc. But there are a few examples that confuse me:
1. I am a teacher and I spend a large amount of my working time planning tomorrow's lessons or next week's lessons. This is necessary for my job. Does this mean I am not living in the present?
2. If you are an academic and your career involves researching abstract concepts, thinking about them, writing research on them, does this mean you are escaping from the present by doing this?
3. If you enter the "flow state" (popular term in American psychology, meaning losing all sense of time because you are so absorbed in what you're doing) would that be bad in Buddhism because you lost track of time passing and therefore the present reality? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
thanks
LB
So practise mindfulness in living, mindfulness can be practised at all moments - teaching, walking, talking, etc. Samadhi can wait for meditation.
But if the 'clarity' aspect is still there - then nothing wrong. You can lose track of your time, it's ok, just wear your watch.
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Mindfulness should be so clear that we "fully use our senses" like in Mindfulness of Breathing meditation
But there is no self involved, just like if you close ur eyes and feel anything...feel the hardness of the floor...like in mindfulness, is that 'hardness' urs or mine or the floor?
Actually it's not yours nor mine. So if you go beyond labels and become imageless, there will be arising. When one is not attached to the arising, one penetrates into the object and the heart of the object is consciousness.
True freedom comes when you realise there is completely no self and no doer at all... all are spontaneously self-arising out of conditions, miraculously aware.
By the way I posted this in: i need help
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Then be aware of that shivering, the practise of anapanasati/mindfulness of breathing is to practise awareness, and then in living, try to bring that awareness to our entire being while not only restricting to the breathe.Originally posted by Cenarious:also my head will shiver a bit after a while by itself neurotically periodically and this breaks my concentration i noticed this since young when going for haircuts
How to be aware... anapanasati is not just a form of focusing. There must be the quality of clarity... shi fu says... in practising the dharma, even the tiniest insect - perhaps a mosquito which flies past you, you will be aware. he also mentioned before, meditation in buddhism is not a form of concentration that is practised in other religions... in which he gave an example (not in exact words but along this line):At one time, a meditator exclaimed to the Buddha how great his meditative experience was. He said 500 vehicles passed by, he did not know any of it at all.
500 vehicles passed by, Buddha wasnt disturbed. meditation isnt escaping from 6 sense experience, but be fully aware (and thus undisturbed).
The Buddha replied: I also had great meditative experience. 500 Vehicles pass by, I am aware of every single one of them.
So i believe the point is whether you are shivering or just breathing what matters most is the level of mindfulness.
In terms of anapanasati, we must be so closely aware of the breathing, we must know the sensation, the coldness or warmness of the air, the 'touch' of the air... sense it fully. is there effort required to bring awareness? no... when you drop all labels and wandering thoughts, the breathing itself knows... this is the function of the buddha nature. it takes no effort to see, smell, touch, it takes place by itself, it is awareness itself. no effort to control anything at all...
We are bound to get physical and mental disturbance in meditation especially when we are still not trained in them... it's ok, do not resist them, accept them as it is and be aware. ultimately you're not seeking some kind of great experience in meditation, good or bad doesn't matter, but to remain conscious throughout. if thoughts has been creeping up in your mind, ignore them, dont be interested in them and they will pass. Do not treat as if the thoughts have anything to do with you and they will just fall away.
Anyway good u're starting to meditate. -
Planning tomorrow's lessons can be a present thought also. When you are planning something, this thought actually consists of a lot of small small thoughts, like what is my objective, how fast they learn, what are the resources.
Concept of living in the present moment requires us to focus on the present thought, instead of chasing around the past and future thoughts. The "present" is not refering to "what we do today" but the focus on the present thought.
Thought are not necessary bad, we need thought to gain enlightenment, but too many thoughts will make it extremely difficult.
Just my personal opinion.Originally posted by la lapine blanche:Just want to clarify this. Generally I understand the concept of living in the present moment, feeling current sensations and feelings, being aware of thoughts, etc. But there are a few examples that confuse me:
1. I am a teacher and I spend a large amount of my working time planning tomorrow's lessons or next week's lessons. This is necessary for my job. Does this mean I am not living in the present?
2. If you are an academic and your career involves researching abstract concepts, thinking about them, writing research on them, does this mean you are escaping from the present by doing this?
3. If you enter the "flow state" (popular term in American psychology, meaning losing all sense of time because you are so absorbed in what you're doing) would that be bad in Buddhism because you lost track of time passing and therefore the present reality? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
thanks
LB -
Would like to elaborate more on this part.Originally posted by la lapine blanche:1. I am a teacher and I spend a large amount of my working time planning tomorrow's lessons or next week's lessons. This is necessary for my job. Does this mean I am not living in the present?
2. If you are an academic and your career involves researching abstract concepts, thinking about them, writing research on them, does this mean you are escaping from the present by doing this?
There is nothing wrong at all with thoughts when there is no grasping. It - like any other 6 senses - it is the function of the Buddha Nature. The only problem with thoughts comes when there is grasping, seeking, and 'self'. Identification with thought creates a sense of self and a sense of doership. So do know that thoughts are just phenomena existence, conditioned arising, a happening of thus. Do not arise another mind on top of it - just like your heartbeat. When you do not label and chase after thoughts, thought is self-liberating. We need to understand its nature, not try to stop it. The will and effort to stop is the problem, but the capacity to see all arising is self-arising and liberating is wisdom.
An example given by my taiwanese teacher on 'non-doership' - when you walk, do you keep thinking 'I am walking, I am walking...' walking is natural and does not need grasping. No seeking, no grasping, no discrimination and no 'doership'. Thoughts are similar. -
Thanks for your thoughts on this, everyone.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Would like to elaborate more on this part.
There is nothing wrong at all with thoughts when there is no grasping. It - like any other 6 senses - it is the function of the Buddha Nature. The only problem with thoughts comes when there is grasping, seeking, and 'self'. Identification with thought creates a sense of self and a sense of doership. So do know that thoughts are just phenomena existence, conditioned arising, a happening of thus. Do not arise another mind on top of it - just like your heartbeat. When you do not label and chase after thoughts, thought is self-liberating. We need to understand its nature, not try to stop it. The will and effort to stop is the problem, but the capacity to see all arising is self-arising and liberating is wisdom.
An example given by my taiwanese teacher on 'non-doership' - when you walk, do you keep thinking 'I am walking, I am walking...' walking is natural and does not need grasping. No seeking, no grasping, no discrimination and no 'doership'. Thoughts are similar.
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Hi LB,Originally posted by la lapine blanche:Just want to clarify this. Generally I understand the concept of living in the present moment, feeling current sensations and feelings, being aware of thoughts, etc. But there are a few examples that confuse me:
1. I am a teacher and I spend a large amount of my working time planning tomorrow's lessons or next week's lessons. This is necessary for my job. Does this mean I am not living in the present?
2. If you are an academic and your career involves researching abstract concepts, thinking about them, writing research on them, does this mean you are escaping from the present by doing this?
3. If you enter the "flow state" (popular term in American psychology, meaning losing all sense of time because you are so absorbed in what you're doing) would that be bad in Buddhism because you lost track of time passing and therefore the present reality? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
thanks
LB
You may want to look more deeply into ‘non-action’, i.e., plan but not be attached to outcome. When engaging with conceptual models, just work within the laws and conditions of the model. This is analogous to our ‘buddha nature’ working day in and day out within the conditions of our five senses yet not limited by it.
Before stabilization of our experience of Presence, there will be confusion. No-self is a very distinct phase of our practices; without going through this phase, we will not be able to replace our conceptual mode of knowing with intuitiveness and directness. This is known as the ‘turning point’. From intuitive workings into spontaneity will take some time. -
Very well said... thanksOriginally posted by Thusness:Hi LB,
You may want to look more deeply into ‘non-action’, i.e., plan but not be attached to outcome. When engaging with conceptual models, just work within the laws and conditions of the model. This is analogous to our ‘buddha nature’ working day in and day out within the conditions of our five senses yet not limited by it.
Before stabilization of our experience of Presence, there will be confusion. No-self is a very distinct phase of our practices; without going through this phase, we will not be able to replace our conceptual mode of knowing with intuitiveness and directness. This is known as the ‘turning point’. From intuitive workings into spontaneity will take some time.
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Thusness,
Thanks for the post, I'm really interested in what you said but not sure I've fully understood.
"Stabilization of our experience of Presence" - at the moment I only feel "present" sometimes, like when I can be bothered to meditate or when I remind myself to climb the stairs mindfully, etc. So I guess what you mean by "stabilization of experience of Presence" is when I come to feel this all the time?
You're quite right that I don't really go beyond conceptual thinking at all yet. I think that's why I'm struggling to understand a lot of things. Like emptiness - I kind of see the concept of "no inherent self" like I am just a collection of genes, cells, influences on my past, experiences, environment, etc. but I haven't really deeply grasped it because I still feel a strong sense of "me"! -
Hi LB,Originally posted by la lapine blanche:Thusness,
Thanks for the post, I'm really interested in what you said but not sure I've fully understood.
"Stabilization of our experience of Presence" - at the moment I only feel "present" sometimes, like when I can be bothered to meditate or when I remind myself to climb the stairs mindfully, etc. So I guess what you mean by "stabilization of experience of Presence" is when I come to feel this all the time?
You're quite right that I don't really go beyond conceptual thinking at all yet. I think that's why I'm struggling to understand a lot of things. Like emptiness - I kind of see the concept of "no inherent self" like I am just a collection of genes, cells, influences on my past, experiences, environment, etc. but I haven't really deeply grasped it because I still feel a strong sense of "me"!
Not exactly. Continuous sustainability of Presence all the time is the result of the awakening of our prajna wisdom that will lead to the experience of all phenomenon manifestation as unconditional spontaneous arising. It is not the result of effort or the strength of habitual energy.
The beginning of clarity and stabilization starts when we begin to break loose a deeply held 'bond' in our consciousness -- A hypnotic bond that is like a magical spell bonding us to our thoughts, body and self. Feel the power of this bond. It is just a form of identification and nothing else yet it has such power over us. Realizing this will help loosen the power of symbols over us, thus bringing us one step closer to the natural state. We will realize that we are in the right track when we notice an acute sharpening of all our senses. We feel very clear, light and bright and thoughts will lessen naturally. Thought at this level begins to play a secondary role. We gather strength when Presence beams and radiates.
Lastly be thorough in no-self. We need not worry too much. The Presence experienced from the practice of mindfulness will prevent the over-negation. instead, it will refine the understanding of our true nature.
PS: 'Mindfulness in Plain English' is a good guide. You may want to grab it.