btw wat makes True Buddha sect unorthodox?
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1) Makes claims that he is an incarnation of Amitabha, based in Vajrayana, although no lamas and rinpoches recognise his teaching status. Meaning he does not hold any lineage and is not authorised to teach the tantras although he does that. Nevertheless, Lu Sheng Yen lied about it by providing photos of his meeting with some other lamas, although none of the lamas recognise him.
2) Created his own sutra which he teaches, called the True Buddha Sutra which is not about Buddhism but a mixture of his own ideas, Chinese traditions and certain elements of Buddhism into a folklorish story (just like any other stories that he created)
3) Involved in sex and other scandals.
4) If you look at the website, you will find it full of fanciful bed time stories which he created.
5) The things he taught are not true dharma, but a mix of chinese folk belief and other teachings with buddhism.
and many other reasons.....
All are advised to stay away from this school and their teachings. -
izzit..oh my goodness..sex scandal!?
my colleague, a malaysian pr follow it...but i already heard it's unortodox long time ago...but just want to find out in detail...
too bad this colleague follow becos of his sister is also following for many years already..hence difficult to change.
haha...my last company also met an i-kuan-tao lady.
i was just reading here abt the emanation. it's more than Amitabha Buddha...:(6) Of which Buddha or Bodhisattva is Living Buddha Lian-shen an emanation?
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~aricalim/t14.html
Living Buddha Lian-shen has revealed straight-forwardly that he is an emanation of Padmakumara (Lotus Bodhisattva). Actually, the body of Living Buddha Lian-shen is that of Buddha Amitabha, his speech that of Bodhisattva Maitreya, his mind that of Buddha Shakyamuni, and his hands those of Vajrapani. Therefore, as Padmasambhava had predicted, Living Buddha Lian-shen is the Vajra Emanation of the Body, Mind, and Speech of all Buddhas and Bodhisattvas. Any offering made to Living Buddha Lian-shen is being made to his Three Bodies (the Dharma Body, the Bliss Body, and the Transformation Body), and there is no difference between such merits and merits acquired from making offerings to ten thousand billion Buddhas. -
subject-object paradox.
Any school who call itself 'True' is not true.
Read the teachings before?... facts mixed with fictions... -
Follow the dharma NOT the person
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the Four reliance are:
(1) to rely on the Law and not upon persons; (2) to rely on the meaning of the teaching and not upon the words; (3) to rely on wisdom and not upon discriminative thinking; and (4) to rely on sutras that are complete and final and not upon those that are not complete and final.
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An unorthodox sect can be teaching 90% genuine buddhism and 10% unorthodox teaching. So, sometimes it is difficult to know whether a particular sect or a "master" is orthodox or not.
One can find out who is the teacher of the "master" that you are suspicious of, then seeks the opinion of the teacher directly. If he has no teacher, that means he was never a buddhist before.
If he has one then eventually, it will trace all the way back to buddha sakyamuni, but you only need to trace it to the teacher that you trust.
This Lu Sheng Yen was a genuine buddhist initially and he really practised hard, but due to the lack of proper guidance and right view of noble 8 fold path, he went into the wrong way and even violated the 5 grave bad deed.
We should hence constantly remind ourselves to have right view and right intention when practising, seek a teacher when in doubt. If one has no right intention, the day he attain samadhi will be the day he become a "demon" -
I half agree with your first para, but however, we should keep away from these unorthodox teachings as not to allow these 10% to pollute the pure flow of Dhamma.Originally posted by justdoit77:An unorthodox sect can be teaching 90% genuine buddhism and 10% unorthodox teaching. So, sometimes it is difficult to know whether a particular sect or a "master" is orthodox or not.
One can find out who is the teacher of the "master" that you are suspicious of, then seeks the opinion of the teacher directly. If he has no teacher, that means he was never a buddhist before.
If he has one then eventually, it will trace all the way back to buddha sakyamuni, but you only need to trace it to the teacher that you trust.
This Lu Sheng Yen was a genuine buddhist initially and he really practised hard, but due to the lack of proper guidance and right view of noble 8 fold path, he went into the wrong way and even violated the 5 grave bad deed.
We should hence constantly remind ourselves to have right view and right intention when practising, seek a teacher when in doubt. If one has no right intention, the day he attain samadhi will be the day he become a "demon"
However your sweeping statements of no teacher means not a buddhist is quite an extreme view. Many people believe in the Dhamma due to self study. Before Buddha had passed away, He'd already mentioned that to rely on the Dhamma not the person. I'm not trying to discredit some of the famous master, but end of the day, they too will advice you to rely on the Dhamma and not them.
To my understanding, LSY wasn't a buddhist with right knowledge to start with. He meddled with some kind of taoist talisman skills as well. I remember seeing some talisman from him. And if my memory doesn't fail me, he has some psuedo-christian belief influence as well. In short, he is a kind of rojak.
AEN:
And yes, he has many fanciful bedside stories. I remember I was in awe when I read one of his story that a deceased man's son told him that his dad appeared in his dream saying his neighbour very "noisy". And how LSY used stone and visulise as pillars and wall to segregate in between the tomb and peace there after. It is a good for entertainment IF you're not a buddhist to start with. -
Based on the articles he wrote, I think Lu sheng yen maybe 30% copy buddhism, 70% his own distorted stories.Originally posted by justdoit77:An unorthodox sect can be teaching 90% genuine buddhism and 10% unorthodox teaching. So, sometimes it is difficult to know whether a particular sect or a "master" is orthodox or not.
One can find out who is the teacher of the "master" that you are suspicious of, then seeks the opinion of the teacher directly. If he has no teacher, that means he was never a buddhist before.
If he has one then eventually, it will trace all the way back to buddha sakyamuni, but you only need to trace it to the teacher that you trust.
This Lu Sheng Yen was a genuine buddhist initially and he really practised hard, but due to the lack of proper guidance and right view of noble 8 fold path, he went into the wrong way and even violated the 5 grave bad deed.
We should hence constantly remind ourselves to have right view and right intention when practising, seek a teacher when in doubt. If one has no right intention, the day he attain samadhi will be the day he become a "demon" -
Originally posted by yamizi:
Yes well said..
I half agree with your first para, but however, we should keep away from these unorthodox teachings as not to allow these 10% to pollute the pure flow of Dhamma.
However your sweeping statements of no teacher means not a buddhist is quite an extreme view. Many people believe in the Dhamma due to self study. Before Buddha had passed away, He'd already mentioned that to rely on the Dhamma [b]not the person. I'm not trying to discredit some of the famous master, but end of the day, they too will advice you to rely on the Dhamma and not them.
To my understanding, LSY wasn't a buddhist with right knowledge to start with. He meddled with some kind of taoist talisman skills as well. I remember seeing some talisman from him. And if my memory doesn't fail me, he has some psuedo-christian belief influence as well. In short, he is a kind of rojak.
AEN:
And yes, he has many fanciful bedside stories. I remember I was in awe when I read one of his story that a deceased man's son told him that his dad appeared in his dream saying his neighbour very "noisy". And how LSY used stone and visulise as pillars and wall to segregate in between the tomb and peace there after. It is a good for entertainment IF you're not a buddhist to start with.[/b]
and the stories are indeed quite entertaining and funny... -
I never say we should follow the unothordox sect, I just want to point out the tactics that they normally use, let's say 90% buddhism to prevent themselves from being seen as unothordox.
Not only buddha mentioned the "rely on the dharma, not the person", he also asked us to follow the triple gems in our daily life.
triple gems = buddha (teacher), dharma, sangha (teacher)
"rely on the dharma, not the person" doesn't mean teacher is not needed. Buddha mentioned this so we do not fall into the extreme of relying on person and superceed dharma.
But if you attached to the "not the person", then you will fall into the opposite extreme. We should take the middle path.
If one already take refuge, how can he has no dharma teacher.
Teacher is so important especially in zen buddhism and vajrayana, if you said you have no teacher, no one will believe the "dharma" you say or become your disciples.
A teacher give you a cultivation plan that suits you, teach you not to make mistake, if you practise the unothordox method and become a fake teacher like LSY, your teacher will make it known to the buddhist community so can reduce your bad karma.
This will ensure the quality of buddhist and lengthen the spreading of dharma in the world.Originally posted by yamizi:
I half agree with your first para, but however, we should keep away from these unorthodox teachings as not to allow these 10% to pollute the pure flow of Dhamma.
However your sweeping statements of no teacher means not a buddhist is quite an extreme view. Many people believe in the Dhamma due to self study. Before Buddha had passed away, He'd already mentioned that to rely on the Dhamma [b]not the person. I'm not trying to discredit some of the famous master, but end of the day, they too will advice you to rely on the Dhamma and not them.
To my understanding, LSY wasn't a buddhist with right knowledge to start with. He meddled with some kind of taoist talisman skills as well. I remember seeing some talisman from him. And if my memory doesn't fail me, he has some psuedo-christian belief influence as well. In short, he is a kind of rojak.
AEN:
And yes, he has many fanciful bedside stories. I remember I was in awe when I read one of his story that a deceased man's son told him that his dad appeared in his dream saying his neighbour very "noisy". And how LSY used stone and visulise as pillars and wall to segregate in between the tomb and peace there after. It is a good for entertainment IF you're not a buddhist to start with.[/b] -
Monks/nuns at a refuge ceremony only serve as a witness. Depending on the buddhist organisations that is conducting, some will only allow members who attended some kind of basic buddhism course to take refuge. There are some who just do it like that.Originally posted by justdoit77:I never say we should follow the unothordox sect, I just want to point out the tactics that they normally use, let's say 90% buddhism to prevent themselves from being seen as unothordox.
Not only buddha mentioned the "rely on the dharma, not the person", he also asked us to follow the triple gems in our daily life.
triple gems = buddha (teacher), dharma, sangha (teacher)
"rely on the dharma, not the person" doesn't mean teacher is not needed. Buddha mentioned this so we do not fall into the extreme of relying on person and superceed dharma.
But if you attached to the "not the person", then you will fall into the opposite extreme. We should take the middle path.
If one already take refuge, how can he has no dharma teacher.
Teacher is so important especially in zen buddhism and vajrayana, if you said you have no teacher, no one will believe the "dharma" you say or become your disciples.
A teacher give you a cultivation plan that suits you, teach you not to make mistake, if you practise the unothordox method and become a fake teacher like LSY, your teacher will make it known to the buddhist community so can reduce your bad karma.
This will ensure the quality of buddhist and lengthen the spreading of dharma in the world.
Teacher is not perfect though they are experienced. Experienced Dhamma Teacher (ordained or lay alike) at the end of the day will advise a buddhist to refer to buddhistic principles, rather than tailor-made anything. Zen (Chinese, Korean or Japanese) and Vajrayana (I assume you refer to the Tibetan tradition) had evolved into a culture that integrates at their various location. From what I see, they have what it is suitable to the locals but may not necessary mean a universal solution to all.
But I'll like to stress again I am not discreditting any good monks/nuns as I'd read some of famous masters and find their book to be good. But end of the day, they'll ask you to refer to the Dhamma as well.
Have a nice weekend ahead.
Peace out.