A website... Gaining enlightenment... Opinions needed...
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http://www.godsdirectcontact.org./
Saw a talk show with a female master speaking on the subject of gaining enlightenment.. What caught my attention was that her talk was pitched on enlightenment being flexible across all races, all cultures and across all religions... We are all moving towards one direction (towards enlightment) regardless of who we are, what we believe and who we have as the god in our heart, be it buddha or jesus christ... or allah... we are all moving towards enlightment... Peace in our heart... She further convey that we humans has sort of being mislead throughout evolution time (maybe its too strong a word here) and hence the existence of our many diverse religions... She said god (a general god... not buddha or jesus or others) will play a joke on us when we reached heaven.. (again a general heaven)... Christians will see a buddha image.. and a buddhist will see Jesus because religions are inapplicable and incomprehensible in god's terms... We humans need religions because we are humans... Ultimately, enlightenment is what we ALL are moving towards...
Her website seems to convey a strong sense of buddhism but im not exactly sure... Her words of "enlightenment being flexible across all races, all cultures and across all religions" and that buddha/jesus image thingy when we reached heaven sure caught my eye... She sure is conveying peace and nothing that she's projecting is clashing against any religion... The good are encouraged, and the bad are discouraged... Her website is a long read.. Please share your opinion... -
Suma Ching Hai is a cult that is not recognised in our forum, and it is definitely not Buddhism.
And we do not believe in any God (creator) in the first place.
See: http://www.buddhistcouncil.org/cults.htm
and our Buddhist forum topic, Schools/Traditions/Sects NOT Recognised In Our Forum -
More info about this cult leader: http://www.rickross.com/groups/suma_ching.html
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I've briefly looked through the website, and the only similarity with Buddhism (or rather, copying Buddhism) is advocating 5 precepts and vegetarianism. There is no other similarities whatsoever.
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yes more than 2500 years ago Buddha had sucessfully reject the concept of creator gods pls readOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:Suma Ching Hai is a cult that is not recognised in our forum, and it is definitely not Buddhism. And we do not believe in any God (creator) in the first place.
Buddha REJECT the idea of the Creator God
http://buses.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=186248 -
that's the problem... without understanding the basic concepts of buddhism , ill informed folks will easily be misleadedOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:I've briefly looked through the website, and the only similarity with Buddhism (or rather, copying Buddhism) is advocating 5 precepts and vegetarianism. There is no other similarities whatsoever. -
i feel the term "God" is more meant for Christianity,for Buddhism terms "Lord","Buddha" or "Lord Buddha" seems more suited
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i'm okay...as mentioned by Ven Shin Hong...as long as they don't slander the Triple gem or encourage the Ten Unwholesome Karma...she could still be a 'transformation' of Bodhsiattva Kuan Yin, preaching the deva vehicle.
first lead them to a place in heaven , then it's where bodhisattvas can upgrade them and teach them BuddhaDharma.
oso from lated Venerable Shen-Kai(AEN's master's master):
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/5vehicles.htmIn his forty-nine years expounding on the Buddha-dharma, Sakyamuni Buddha, the founder of Buddhism, taught the Five Vehicles of Buddhism. These Five Vehicles are taught as expedients to cater to the different capacities and capabilities of sentient beings. In Buddhism the term ‘vehicle’ is analogous to a conveyance of deliverance for sentient beings. Thus, when one cultivates according to the teachings of these vehicles, one is conveyed or ferried from one shore to the other. That is, from the present shore where there is an abundance of affliction and suffering of birth and death, to theshore where there is bliss and enlightenment.
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol8no1e.htm
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Yes, any teachings that tell people to do good and avoid evil may lead one to the heavenly realms, but it is impossible to attain enlightenment through these cults' teachings. Anyone can teach people to do good and avoid evil but that does not make it a buddhist teaching. We must be able to distinguish them. Buddhism alone teaches and emphasizes the purification of the mind, without which it is impossible to liberate. Furthermore i dont think heavenly vehicle is so easy as to simply be born in the heavens the heavens is not liberating and most people who are born in heavens will probably be lost in their enjoyment. Even if one is born in tushita heaven, it is very unlikely that one will willingly enter the inner court of maitreya. So rebirth in heaven is not what we should aim for, unless we can be like certain masters who are very sure they will enter the inner court. So since rebirth in heaven is not even the aim of buddhists in the first place, much less teaching of a creator, we are completely different from the teachings of ching hai.
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I agree with Eternal Now. As Buddhists, we should learn how to distinguish between what is Dharma and what is NOT. Just because a certain cult's teachings resemble Buddhism does not mean it is Buddhism or Buddha-Dharma to be more exact. And just because it resembles Buddhism, does not mean it can become a teaching of skilful means (upaya); if it is wrong, it is wrong and there is no way of denying that.
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yes, it's not the ultimate Dharma of leaving samsara(chu shi jian fa). tho it's worldly dharma(shi jian fa), it's still fa(dharma). and to what i know chu shi jian fa is based on the foundation of moral/avoiding evil type of shi jian fa. without the foundation of avoiding evil, chu shi jian fa also cannot be completed.
however, my point is, imho, if they cannot accept, u force them also no use.
like for arahat cannot accept bodhisattva vehicle yet, Buddha also teach arahat level to them first. Buddha where got see if a person's conditions is not ready, force them wan. it'll be like forcing a kindergarten kid to learn university's standard.
there are even profounder understanding to this btw.
got see a wise grandfather stopping a child from going outside to play? their mind are still young only. Buddha's mind is somewhat like the experience grandfather, whom still wishes the child to 'return'.
"true cultivator see not the fault of the world" - Huineng
btw, i didn't go thru the website of the teachings of ching hai, so i nv say they are right or wrong what so ever. if there's teachings that does teaches evil/unwholesome deed, i wouldn't know. i'm just stating a point of view only. ownself karma, ownself ripe. don't quote me.
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My opinion runs parallel... There are christians.. muslims.. hindis.. jews just to name a few... millions of people who are on different paths.. Exclusive those who has been mislead and who in my opinion really deserved being branded a cult (9-11 comes to mind), can we then say that only a handful who has the chance to embrace buddhism or true Dharma can find peace? In general terms and even though its subjective, the europeans naturally take after the teachings of Jesus Christ... The indians practice hinduism.. the malays accommodate allah in their heart... religion had stem from something thats brought into one's life from birth in a natural twist.. from their upbringing, their environment and their roots... Can it be said then that they missed the train because of their fate? I believe buddha, been compassionate and wise recognise that... Isnt what truely matters being our heart, our mind? Being the intent of what one's actions stems from? It might not be true Dharma but cult might be too strong a word.. Its my own opinion... sorry if i offended anyone... From my point of view, anyone who's doing good and steer clear of evil is practicing some form of buddhism... regardless of our skin tone.. and what we truely believe in...Originally posted by sinweiy:yes, it's not the ultimate Dharma of leaving samsara(chu shi jian fa). tho it's worldly dharma(shi jian fa), it's still fa(dharma). and to what i know chu shi jian fa is based on the foundation of moral/avoiding evil type of shi jian fa. without the foundation of avoiding evil, chu shi jian fa also cannot be completed.
however, my point is, imho, if they cannot accept, u force them also no use.
like for arahat cannot accept bodhisattva vehicle yet, Buddha also teach arahat level to them first. Buddha where got see if a person's conditions is not ready, force them wan. it'll be like forcing a kindergarten kid to learn university's standard.
there are even profounder understanding to this btw.
got see a wise grandfather stopping a child from going outside to play? their mind are still young only. Buddha's mind is somewhat like the experience grandfather, whom still wishes the child to 'return'.
"true cultivator see not the fault of the world" - Huineng
btw, i didn't go thru the website of the teachings of ching hai, so i nv say they are right or wrong what so ever. if there's teachings that does teaches evil/unwholesome deed, i wouldn't know. i'm just stating a point of view only. ownself karma, ownself ripe. don't quote me.
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It all depends on what you want to believe and embrace. It's a free individual choice, and we are in no position to put down any other faith. Those who embraced Dharma will find peace, likewise for those who accepted other faiths. In fact, I remembered once Dalai Lama said that it's not about converting others into Buddhism, but rather, stay in their religion and practise what was rightly preached.Originally posted by crescent:My opinion runs parallel... There are christians.. muslims.. hindis.. jews just to name a few... millions of people who are on different paths.. Exclusive those who has been mislead and who in my opinion really deserved being branded a cult (9-11 comes to mind), can we then say that only a handful who has the chance to embrace buddhism or true Dharma can find peace? In general terms and even though its subjective, the europeans naturally take after the teachings of Jesus Christ... The indians practice hinduism.. the malays accommodate allah in their heart... religion had stem from something thats brought into one's life from birth in a natural twist.. from their upbringing, their environment and their roots... Can it be said then that they missed the train because of their fate? I believe buddha, been compassionate and wise recognise that... Isnt what truely matters being our heart, our mind? Being the intent of what one's actions stems from? It might not be true Dharma but cult might be too strong a word.. Its my own opinion... sorry if i offended anyone... From my point of view, anyone who's doing good and steer clear of evil is practicing some form of buddhism... regardless of our skin tone.. and what we truely believe in...
For this case (I've vaguely "scanned" the webpage), there is no mentioning of it representing Buddhism. In fact, Guan Yin could jolly well represent other faith, which I'm sure they will wholesomely disagree if they come to know about it. So to me, it's just another choice of belief. If someone were to proclaimed that he's the reincarnation of Lord Buddha and giving totally wrong teachings in representation of Buddhism by name, then we may have to sound the siren and voice our protest. For this case, she was clearly combining Christianity and Buddhism into one religion of her own, hence you it's not too strong to label this as a cult, because her teachings contradicts everything that was taught in both religions.
Doing good and steer clear of evil is just one small part of practising Buddhism, which if you want to know the detail. AEN can fill you in very well -
I certainly do not put down any religions. However you should know that Buddhism isnt simply a religion, in fact it is not a religion in various ways (i.e we do not believe or worship a creator God, nor worship any gods, etc) and the main teaching of buddhism is not merely about being good and avoiding evil. Most religions does teach this part, but this is not the crux of Buddhism, which emphasizes on liberation and purification of the mind - not just some rebirth in a celestial realm in the next lifetime, because all celestial realms are still temporary and are still subject to Dukkha. So the Nirvana in Buddhism actually transcends all celestial realms spoken by any other religions. It transcends space and time, it is also not a "nice place" located somewhere. It is also not a worldly and temporary 'peaceful state'. Nirvana transcends any kind of states. In fact without realising the sublime truth of Emptiness which alone Buddhism teaches, one will not be able to attain Nirvana. So therefore, other religions are valid paths towards rebirth to virtuous realm (as long as the teaching teaches people to do virtuous deeds and avoid evil) but it is through Buddhism that one can attain enlightenment and liberation. So in this aspect we are very different from Ching Hai's teachings and also many other religions' teachings. The definition of 'attaining enlightenment' in Buddhism is also completely different from that of Ching Hai's. As for saying that anyone who is good and does not do evil is practising some form of Buddhism, it may not be that simple because even if a person is good and does not do evil will be able to secure a virtuous rebirth, he has not even touched on the path towards liberation from the endless cycle of samsara and attaining the highest bliss of the transcendental Nirvana and liberation.Originally posted by crescent:My opinion runs parallel... There are christians.. muslims.. hindis.. jews just to name a few... millions of people who are on different paths.. Exclusive those who has been mislead and who in my opinion really deserved being branded a cult (9-11 comes to mind), can we then say that only a handful who has the chance to embrace buddhism or true Dharma can find peace? In general terms and even though its subjective, the europeans naturally take after the teachings of Jesus Christ... The indians practice hinduism.. the malays accommodate allah in their heart... religion had stem from something thats brought into one's life from birth in a natural twist.. from their upbringing, their environment and their roots... Can it be said then that they missed the train because of their fate? I believe buddha, been compassionate and wise recognise that... Isnt what truely matters being our heart, our mind? Being the intent of what one's actions stems from? It might not be true Dharma but cult might be too strong a word.. Its my own opinion... sorry if i offended anyone... From my point of view, anyone who's doing good and steer clear of evil is practicing some form of buddhism... regardless of our skin tone.. and what we truely believe in...
Furthermore, the reason why I name Ching hai as a 'cult' is not because of her teachings, from the website I don't see any dangerous teachings but because her behavior is very suspicious and her organisation does exhibit characteristics of a cult. As I mentioned earlier, do see the rickross website about the reports on that organisation. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
there's no self surrender. We are our own saviors. That's what buddha want us to understand
I certainly do not put down any religions. However you should know that Buddhism isnt simply a religion, in fact it is not a religion in various ways (i.e we do not believe or worship a creator God, nor worship any gods, etc) and the main teaching of buddhism is [b]not merely about being good and avoiding evil. Most religions does teach this part, but this is not the crux of Buddhism, which emphasizes on liberation and purification of the mind - not just some rebirth in a celestial realm in the next lifetime, because all celestial realms are not temporary and are still subject to Dukkha. So the Nirvana in Buddhism actually transcends all celestial realms spoken by any other religions. It transcends space and time, it is also not a "nice place" located somewhere. It is not a worldly and temporary 'peaceful state'. Nirvana transcends any kind of states. So in this aspect we are very different from Ching Hai's teachings and also many other religions' teachings. The definition of 'attaining enlightenment' in Buddhism is also completely different from that of Ching Hai's. As for saying that anyone who is good and does not do evil is practising some form of Buddhism, it may not be that simple because even if a person is good and does not do evil will be able to secure a virtuous rebirth, he has not even touched on the path towards liberation from the endless cycle of samsara and attaining the highest bliss of the transcendental Nirvana and liberation.
Furthermore, the reason why I name Ching hai as a 'cult' is not because of her teachings, from the website I don't see any dangerous teachings but because her behavior is very suspicious and her organisation does exhibit characteristics of a cult. As I mentioned earlier, do see the rickross website about the reports on that organisation.[/b]
Whether the Westerner who first approaches the Buddha's teachings be accustomed to modern scientific or to Christian terminology, he should always bear in mind that the Buddha was not interested in the existence or non-existence of a Supreme Being or any other abstract philosophical proposition. He was interested only in the Way, the practical way, by which suffering may be ended, both here and hereafter.
Marie B. Byles (1900-1979)
Australian author and mountaineer
Man gave up the illusion of a fatherly God as a parental helper - but he gave up also the true aims of all great humanistic religions: overcoming the limitations of an egotistical self, achieving love, objectivity, and humility and respecting life so that the aim of life is living itself, and man becomes what he potentially is. These were the aims of the great Western religions, as they were the aims of the great Eastern religions.
The East, however, was not burdened with the concept of a transcendent father - saviour in which the monotheistic religions expressed their longings. Taoism and Buddhism had a rationality and realism superior to that of Western religions. They could see man realistically and objectively, having nobody but the 'awakened' ones to guide him, and being able to he guided because each man has within himself the capacity to awake and be enlightened. This is precisely the reason why Eastern religious thought, Taoism and Buddhism - and their blending in Zen Buddhism* assume such importance for the West today.
Zen Buddhism helps man to find an answer to the question of his existence, an answer which is essentially the same as that given in the Judaeo-Christian tradition, and yet which does not contradict the rationality, realism, and independence which are modern man's precious achievements. Paradoxically, Eastern religious thought turns out to be more congenial to Western rational thought than does Western religious thought itself.
Erich Fromm (1900-1980)
German American Psychoanalyst and Social Philosopher -
Thats right. Anyway in short, Buddhism is different from other religions in very fundamental aspects like goal and practises, and that is why it cannot even be considered a religion in many various ways.
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Hi guys just a gentle reminder on Buddha's advise on choosing a religion
1. Do not believe anything based on revelation.
2. Do not believe anything through tradition handed down from the past.
3. Do not believe anything through hearsay (gossip, rumour, etc.).
4. Do not believe anything because it accords with the holy scriptures.
5. Do not believe anything through logic.
6. Do not believe anything because it is a point of view.
7. Do not believe anything through having considered the reasons.
8. Do not believe anything because one is convinced of some theory.
9. Do not believe anything through the testimony of some reliable person.
10. Do not believe in anything thinking, “This person is a great preacher”.
when you yourselves know what is evil, blameworthy and censured by the enlightened wise, abandon those things. When you yourselves know that these things are good, not blameworthy, but praised by the wise, accept and practise them.”