All stories are told by the mind
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without the mind there would be nothing.
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Where is 'mind'? Search for it, bring it out, then I will destroy it for you.
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Which Mind are you?Can you point to one moment of your Mind that always has been and always will be you? Are you yesterday's Mind? Today's Mind? Tomorrow's Mind?Originally posted by Cenarious:without the mind there would be nothing.
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did I say I was a mind? I am the awareness behind the mind.
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Awareness is not behind the mind. The mystics who describe this thinks that there is an observer(self) watching the mind(thoughts)... This is I AM. I also thought so too in the past... until Thusness probed me to re-investigate the dynamics in deep meditation again.Originally posted by Cenarious:did I say I was a mind? I am the awareness behind the mind.
Truth is, there is no observer. Awareness and knowingness is in-built in Mind. There is no division...
my 2 cents -
The reality of the unreal is pure awareness, in reality, there is no such thing as mind. The mind looks real but it is not real. So there is no awareness behind the mind - there is ONLY awareness at the highest level, nothing is seperate from it.Originally posted by neutral_onliner:Which Mind are you?Can you point to one moment of your Mind that always has been and always will be you?[b] Are you yesterday's Mind? Today's Mind? Tomorrow's Mind? [/b][/quote]
Yes, so from this we know that mind is illusory, unreal, and does not exist, or rather - empty of inherent existence.
[quote]Originally posted by Cenarious:
did I say I was a mind? I am the awareness behind the mind.
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God.
The reality of mind is Mind. The mind turned inwards realises pure awareness, the mind turned outwards get caught up in objects (i.e subject/object relationship). But in reality even 'inward' and 'outward' are conceptual divisions, you can only BE, and there is no duality. -
Smart Ananda pointed out many area where the mind were, but the Buddha deny them all, in Shurangama sutra.
"Now you wish to investigate the unsurpassed Bodhi and actually discover your nature. You should answer my questions with a straightforward mind. The Thus Come Ones of the ten directions escaped birth and death because their minds were straightforward. Since their minds and words were consistently that way, from the beginning, through the intermediate stages to the end, they were never in the least evasive.
"�nanda, I now ask you: at the time of your initial resolve, which arose in response to Thus Come One’s thirty-two hallmarks, what was it that saw those characteristics and who delighted in them?"
�nanda said to the Buddha, "World Honored One, this is the way I experienced the delight: I used my mind and eyes. Because my eyes saw the Thus Come One’s outstanding hallmarks, my mind gave rise to delight. That is why I became resolved and wished to extricate myself from birth and death."
The Buddha said to �nanda, "It is as you say, that experience of delight actually occurs because of your mind and eyes. If you do not know where your mind and eyes are, you will not be able to conquer the wearisome mundane defilements.
"For example, when a country is invaded by thieves and the king sends out his troops to suppress and banish them, the troops must know where the thieves are.
"It is the fault of your mind and eyes that you undergo transmigration. I now ask you specifically about your mind and eyes: where are they now?"
�nanda answered the Buddha, "World Honored One, All the ten kinds of beings in the world alike maintain that the mind-consciousness dwells within the body; and as I regard the Thus Come One’s eyes that resemble blue lotuses, they are on the Buddha’s face.
"I now observe that these prominent organs, four kinds of defiling objects, are on my face, and my mind-consciousness actually is within my body."
The Buddha said to �nanda, "You are now sitting in the Thus Come One’s lecture hall. Where is the Jeta Grove that you are gazing at?"
"World Honored One, this great many-storied pure lecture hall is in the Garden of the Benefactor of the Solitary. At present the Jeta Grove is, in fact, outside the hall."
"�nanda, as you are now in the hall, what do you see first?"
"World Honored One, here in the hall I first see the Thus Come One, next I see the great assembly, and from there, as I gaze outward, I see the grove and the garden."
"�nanda, how are you able to see the grove and the garden."
"World Honored One, since the doors and windows of this great lecture hall have been thrown open wide, I can be in the hall and see into the distance."
The Buddha said to �nanda, "It is as you say. When one is in the lecture hall and the doors and windows are open wide, one can see far into the garden and the grove. Could someone in the hall not see the Thus Come One and yet see outside the hall?"
�nanda answered: "World Honored One, to be in the hall and not see the Thus Come One, and yet see the grove and fountains is impossible."
"�nanda, you are like that too.
"Your mind is capable of understanding everything thoroughly. Now if your present mind, which thoroughly understands everything, were in your body, then you should first be aware of what is inside your body. Could there be beings that first see the inside of their bodies before observing external phenomena?
"Even if you cannot see your heart, liver, spleen, and stomach, still, you should be able to clearly perceive the growing of your nails and hair, the twist of your sinews, and the throb of your pulse. Why donÂ’t you perceive these things?
If you cannot perceive your internal organs, how could you perceive what is external to you?
"Therefore you should know that declaring that the aware and knowing mind is inside the body is an impossible statement."
to cont reading:
http://www.buddhistinformation.com/shurangama_sutra.htm
Ananda can point out so many area, ie consider very smart already. nowaday, ppl don't even have His standard.
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buddhism sounds boring now. where is my supernatural power
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People tends to treat an ability which very few people are able to do as supernatural power.Originally posted by Cenarious:buddhism sounds boring now. where is my supernatural power
Things like walking, hearing is actually a kind of supernatural power also, because not all beings are able to walk and hear.
In fact, when one's mind is really calm, he can see more lightwaves and hear sound of broader frequency. nothing strange about it.
People go after supernatural power because of self attachment. After they achieve this, they can only remains happy for a short period, because their expectation will gradually rise to another level.
When people give you sweets to eat, I don't think you will feel as happy as when you were a small kid. -
Happiness needs sadness.
Success needs failure.
Benevolence needs evil.
Love needs hatred.
Victory needs defeat.
Pleasure needs pain.
You must experience and accept the extremes. Because if the contrast is lost, you lose appreciation; and when you lose appreciation, you lose the value of everything. -
Relax my friend.Originally posted by Cenarious:buddhism sounds boring now. where is my supernatural power
Consciousness arises because of cause and effect of the body and we always think that this body belongs to me, I own the body or the body is mine.
Thoughts arise whenever any of our six sense bases i.e. eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body and consciousness come into contact with their outside forms (object, sound, smell, taste, touch, and happenings). We trust that the world is going on this way by nature. We see through our eyes, we hear through our ears, we smell through our nose, we taste through our tongue, we contact through our body. Five aggregates rise up whenever any of our six sense bases contact with the outside world but all the while we have been thinking that there is "I" or "mine" behind this. Whatever we see with our eyes, whatever we hear with our ears, whatever we smell with our nose, whatever we taste with our tongue, whatever we feel with our body and whatever thoughts that arise in our mind, that is, when these six sense bases come to contact with each of their respective outside forms, we perceive and think as I see, I hear, I smell, I taste, I feel, I think, as if there is a being there to experience it and doing it. According to the teachings of the Buddha, it is a wrong view in thinking that there is a being. -
You will be disappointed by the term "supernatural power" in buddhismOriginally posted by Cenarious:buddhism sounds boring now. where is my supernatural power
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so buddhism is just one big big round of bush beating to tell you it doesnt matter and just suc.k it up becos u dont exist
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If you have read about controlling energies in buddhism I guess that fit into your definition of supernatural powerOriginally posted by Cenarious:so buddhism is just one big big round of bush beating to tell you it doesnt matter and just suc.k it up becos u dont exist
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NopeOriginally posted by Cenarious:so buddhism is just one big big round of bush beating to tell you it doesnt matter and just suc.k it up becos u dont exist
When you study Buddhism, you are studying yourself, the nature of your own mind. Instead of focusing on some supreme being, Buddhism focuses on more practical matters, such as how to lead your life, how to integrate your mind and how to keep your everyday mind peaceful and healthy. In other words, Buddhism always emphasizes experiential knowledge-wisdom rather than some dogmatic view. -
no self study what, we're all a bunch of soulless things walking around so it wont matter if i killed a bunch of babiesOriginally posted by neutral_onliner:Nope
When you study Buddhism, you are studying yourself, the nature of your own mind. Instead of focusing on some supreme being, Buddhism focuses on more practical matters, such as how to lead your life, how to integrate your mind and how to keep your everyday mind peaceful and healthy. In other words, Buddhism always emphasizes experiential knowledge-wisdom rather than some dogmatic view.
man i would have gone to taoism if i wanted to be this extreme -
It not no self but non-selfOriginally posted by Cenarious:no self study what, we're all a bunch of soulless things walking around so it wont matter if i killed a bunch of babies
man i would have gone to taoism if i wanted to be this extreme -
excusesOriginally posted by neutral_onliner:It not no self but non-self -
relax my frend the concept of non self ...i noe is not easily to understand but by understanding this reality will enable us to slowly progress in our path and the see things as they really are.Originally posted by Cenarious:excuses
since we r here i try to help u to understand the very basic part ok ?
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ya im waitingOriginally posted by neutral_onliner:relax my frend the concept of non self ...i noe is not easily to understand but by understanding this reality will enable us to slowly progress in our path and the see things as they really are.
since we r here i try to help u to understand the very basic part ok ? -
It inherently existentOriginally posted by Cenarious:ya im waiting
To put it in layman term:
persons (like you and me) and all other phenomena (tables, etc.) are empty of our fantasized projections on them. One of the principle deceptive qualities that we project onto persons and phenomena is that they are inherently existent, that is, that they exist without depending on causes and conditions, parts, and the consciousness which conceives them and gives them a name.
Thus, in our ordinary view, things appear to have some true of inherent nature, as if they were really there, as if we could find these real, independent entities if we searched for them. They appear to be there, independent of the causes and conditions that created them, independent of the parts of which they are made, and independent of the mind which conceives and gives them a name. This is the appearance of true or inherent existence and our mind grasps it as real.
However, when we examine analytically if things exist in this independent way as they superficially appear to, we find that they do not. They are empty of our fantasized projections onto them. Still, they do exist, but they exist dependently, for they rely on causes and conditions, on parts, and on the mind which conceives them and gives them a name.
so far ok ? -
All actions sourced from one's thought, which is rooted in our mind. We think, we thought, we perceived, our emotions, is all controled by this place in our skull. Without it, we will be a walking zombies. With it, we could move towards anywhere between the plane of good and evil.Originally posted by Cenarious:no self study what, we're all a bunch of soulless things walking around so it wont matter if i killed a bunch of babies
man i would have gone to taoism if i wanted to be this extreme
Everytime we do something, our mind form impressions, and that impression could lead us to our next action, maybe an argument with the person infront of you, or a hug with the person sitting next to you.
Taming the mind is like restraining an wild horse. You can supress this thought and another arises. We are so used to not letting our brain rest, when u really want to go into a thoughtless stage, your head just couldn't get use to it.
Understanding your mind doesn't make you soulless, but rather, makes you mindful of what you are, and where you are. -
And honestly supernatural powers sound quite boring to me, I dont know whats the hype about it. Supernatural powers can only be developed through meditative practises, and according to Buddha it is quite a waste of effort to try to develope them on purpose. It should be a byproduct of Precepts, Samadhi and Wisdom cultivation.Originally posted by Cenarious:buddhism sounds boring now. where is my supernatural power
That is not what non-volition/non-action or Wu Wei in Taoism means. In fact non-volition in Taoism is quite similar to Buddhism, where there is action but no doer, which means spontaneity. Spontaneous action, Wei Wu Wei, is liberating. It is true that one who can completely master non-volition (i.e an Arhant) no longer creates karma but that does not mean he will be wreakless in actions. But it does not mean one can escape cause and effect.Originally posted by Cenarious:no self study what, we're all a bunch of soulless things walking around so it wont matter if i killed a bunch of babies
man i would have gone to taoism if i wanted to be this extreme
There is a famous story here,
-------After the assembly had departed, Master Pai Chang noticed an old man who stayed behind. The master asked who he was. “Not a human being sir, but the spirit of a wild fox. I used to be the head monk here. One day I was asked, “Does one who practices still become involved in karma?” I replied, “No, he is free of karma.” For this answer, I earned the karma of being reborn with the spirit of a wild fox for 500 years and have not been able to shake it. Please liberate me by enlightening me on this matter.”
The master said, “Go ahead and ask me the same question.” So the fox asked, “Does one who practices still become involved in karma?” Pai Chang replied, “He is not blind to cause and effect.”
The fox was greatly awakened and prostrated before the Master saying, “Thank you. Your answer has liberated me from the fox’s body. I live in a hollow on the mountain and would ask you to grant me the usual rites for a dead monk.” The next day, Pai Chang climbed the mountain behind his monastery, and in a small grotto, he discovered a dead fox for whom the usual ceremony for a dead monk was held.
-loosely rendered from The Transmission of the Lamp, this story is also found in other Ch'an collections. Shiloh-x[/quote]
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From: View & ConductOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:
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http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol8no3c.htm
'All phenomena arise by the aggregation of causes and conditions; all phenomena cease by the dispersion of causes and conditions.' How do we apply this Law of Causality?
Using the family to illustrate the Law of Causality, a family is established as a result of the aggregation of causes and conditions. Since the family has already been brought about by these various causes and conditions, we should therefore live peacefully and joyfully as a family. Fulfilling this positive causality for the family will leave us with no regrets in the future.
We shouldn't reckon presume that 'all forms are empty' (Buddhist philosophy that all things and phenomena are empty because they don't have an independent nature of their own.); you are 'empty', I am also 'empty' and we are all 'empty', and so we don't care about anything. This is wrong. Since all things result from aggregations of causes and conditions we must make good use of these causes and conditions.
As another example, it is only because I am here to give a Dharma talk that this bouquet of flowers has been prepared. Therefore, we should place these flowers nicely on the table so that people can appreciate them. If while we are admiring the flowers, a person comes by and declares, "Sigh, all phenomena arising from causes and conditions are empty. What use is there in having such a beautiful bouquet of flowers?" He then removes it and throws it away. This person may not be of sound mind, because by now you know about the Law of Causality, and you say that the flowers are empty. But, you are still physically here. You, as a 'person' have not emptied away! So how could you say that the flowers are empty? Therefore, you should diligently learn and practise what the Buddha taught, and cultivate. First of all empty the sentient being (i.e. the arising and ceasing of thoughts and feelings) within you, and then you will not find that things in the world are contradictory.
So from this, we see how that which is seemingly contradictory in the world, stems from failure to properly grasp the principles. Because when the principles have not been correctly understood, there cannot be coherence in their application to matters of the world. This leads to lack of roundedness and harmony in the way we deal with things.
[quote]Originally posted by longchen:Do not lose the view of the Dharmakaya while in action... or we will not be liberated.
While in the Dharmakaya viewpoint, do not lose conduct(discriminative right action) or we will accumulate karma.Originally posted by _wanderer_:Basically I think the View refers to the Ultimate View (some call it View of Emptiness, some call it Primordial Wisdom, others call it something else...). I think Padmasambhava is reminding us not to get lost in conduct, thinking that there is "something truly virtuous" to adopt and "something truly nonvirtuous" to abandon in our conduct/actions. This means, while we are adopting virtues and abandoning nonvirtuous we should bear the View of Emptiness in mind, that NO truly existing person is performing any truly existing action towards any truly existing party.
However, having embraced this View of Emptiness, as what Longchen said, we should not think that we don't need to care about performing virtuous or nonvirtuous actions, because for us the unenlightened beings, we're still bound by karma. So though aware of the "lack of an inherent truly existing nature" of virtues and nonvirtues, we should still try to adopt virtuous behaviour and abandon nonvirtuous behaviour.
Thanks for all the sharing Longchen, Sinwei and Eternal Now. I found it kinda surprising and very interesting that diff pple have diff interpretations. I believe such sharings can help all of us sharpen our understanding of the Dharma and motivate one another to apply and actualize them.
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i can already control my mind and thoughts.Originally posted by path_seeker:All actions sourced from one's thought, which is rooted in our mind. We think, we thought, we perceived, our emotions, is all controled by this place in our skull. Without it, we will be a walking zombies. With it, we could move towards anywhere between the plane of good and evil.
Everytime we do something, our mind form impressions, and that impression could lead us to our next action, maybe an argument with the person infront of you, or a hug with the person sitting next to you.
Taming the mind is like restraining an wild horse. You can supress this thought and another arises. We are so used to not letting our brain rest, when u really want to go into a thoughtless stage, your head just couldn't get use to it.
Understanding your mind doesn't make you soulless, but rather, makes you mindful of what you are, and where you are. -
The ability to control thoughts is very limited especially for non-meditators. For example sometimes a song gets caught in your head, can you control it and stop it from arising again? It can even be quite frustrating. But on a higher level of practise, effort is not needed to 'control thoughts'.Originally posted by Cenarious:i can already control my mind and thoughts.