bu luo yinguo & bu mei yinguo
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http://www.wfp.ks.edu.tw/aj/html/b-html/b-30.htm
Oneday, after Ch'an Master BaiZhang finished His talk, an old man did not left. Ch'an master ask why. The old man replied that he's not human and that he's a fox spirit transform as a human, due to a long time practice in BaiZhang mountain. During then, a student asked, " Do a great cultivator still create karma?" He said "Do not leave karma." Hence he was reborn into the animal realms for 500 years as a fox. "Knowing that Master is a great cultivator, please enlightened me. Do great cultivator still create karma?"
Ch'an master replied, "Do not conceal karma. "
The old man was enlightened and no longer attached to his old concept that a great cultivator do not leave karma. We can have karma on our form body but our inner mind is not affected, then karma become natural. He later when back to the cave and passed on (ie liberated).
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I see thanks.. I also suddenly remembered its fox and found it, so I posted it in ' All stories are told by the mind' also
Anyway thanks
Edit: Oops this is supposed to be replied to you as PM, dont know why it got here. -
i see.
here's the other translation of the story:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------After the assembly had departed, Master Pai Chang noticed an old man who stayed behind. The master asked who he was. “Not a human being sir, but the spirit of a wild fox. I used to be the head monk here. One day I was asked, “Does one who practices still become involved in karma?” I replied, “No, he is free of karma.” For this answer, I earned the karma of being reborn with the spirit of a wild fox for 500 years and have not been able to shake it. Please liberate me by enlightening me on this matter.”
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The master said, “Go ahead and ask me the same question.” So the fox asked, “Does one who practices still become involved in karma?” Pai Chang replied, “He is not blind to cause and effect.”
The fox was greatly awakened and prostrated before the Master saying, “Thank you. Your answer has liberated me from the fox’s body. I live in a hollow on the mountain and would ask you to grant me the usual rites for a dead monk.” The next day, Pai Chang climbed the mountain behind his monastery, and in a small grotto, he discovered a dead fox for whom the usual ceremony for a dead monk was held.
-loosely rendered from The Transmission of the Lamp, this story is also found in other Ch'an collections. Shiloh-x -
Does a practitioner still have a mind?
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depends on which level of practice is the practitioner. a mind is not a mind thats why it is called a mind.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Does a practitioner still have a mind? -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
let go of conception. eventually, to an advance practitioner, if there's still a concept of there's mind or there's no mind, then he/she's still a beginner or average practitioner.
Does a practitioner still have a mind?
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You mean let go of preception, not conception. Stop perceiving things as you feel about them and they will appear in their natural state to you. However, with no mind, you cannot even perceive them and with a human mind, pre-conception of things tend to happen. Therefore, I ask why even bother to have a mind?Originally posted by sinweiy:let go of conception. eventually, to an advance practitioner, if there's still a concept of there's mind or there's no mind, then he/she's still a beginner or average practitioner.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
i do mean conception. if conception is illusive, why bother "preceiving" them?.
You mean let go of preception, not conception. Stop perceiving things as you feel about them and they will appear in their natural state to you. However, with no mind, you cannot even perceive them and with a human mind, pre-conception of things tend to happen. Therefore, I ask why even bother to have a mind?
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If the conception exactly describes the real thing, then how is it illusive?Originally posted by sinweiy:i do mean conception. if conception is illusive, why bother "preceiving" them?.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
due to it's changable/emptiness nature. hence it's not real/lasting.
If the conception exactly describes the real thing, then how is it illusive? [/b]
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Ah.... So nothing is really lasting, not even change itself...Originally posted by sinweiy:due to it's changable/emptiness nature. hence it's not real/lasting.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
'What exists is changeable and what is not changeable does not exist. '
Ah.... So nothing is really lasting, not even change itself... [/b]
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