Does mind exist? (spinoff)
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Sorry I didn't reply this topic the other day.. as I did not have time and forgotten, and I think I will just create a new topic to reply. Wow, I'm following casino_king's style if anyone still remembers
There is this faculty that allows us to think and reason, and this can conventionally be known as the mind. In Buddhism, this is the sixth sense (not psychic sense, just intellect), or the sixth consciousness, other than the first five consciousness that is similar to science's five senses. But the mind is not to be mistaken as an entity residing somewhere, or as a self, and here is where we need to understand its emptines nature.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Does a practitioner still have a mind?
There is this story of the 2nd Zen Patriarch becoming enlightened after a short conversation with Bodhidharma.Even before that there were situations in Buddhist history which became the basis of reflection by future Zen monks. Buddha sat down under the Bodhi tree with a big question: "What is life? What is death?" When Bodhidharma came to China, the future second patriarch came to visit him. Bodhidharma would not talk to him. To show that he was sincere in his quest, the second patriarch cut off his arm and presented it to Bodhidharma. Seeing this, Bodhidharma asked him, "What do you want?"
The second patriarch said, "My mind is not rested. Please pacify it for me."
Bodhidharma said, "Bring me your mind and I will pacify it."
The second patriarch was nonplused: "I cannot find my mind when I look for it."
"There," said Bodhidharma, "I have pacified it for you."[/quote]
The Buddhist way of understanding it is that consciousness is an ever flowing flux, and ungraspable, as its nature is empty. The mind is not an entity, it is non-localised and it is the flow of consciousness due to conditioned arising, marked by the dharma seals of no-self and impermanence. Once its nature is recognised, consciousness becomes transmuted into wisdom - which means, directly experiencing non-dual awareness, directly experiencing the dharma seals from moment to moment, and not just understanding it.
Life (Self) is nothing other than the continuous flow of the Now Moment.
The Now Moment ceases as it arises. This moment must completely ceased
and serves as the CAUSE for the next moment to arise.Therefore Self is a process of series Self1, Self2, Self3, Self4, Self5, Self6...etc
A fixed entity 'Self' does not exist, what really exists is a momentary Self.
Under deep meditation, one is able to observe and sense the karmic and mental factors from moment to moment,
it is these factors that are succeeded from moment to moment and life and life but not a fixed entity.
When the karmic and mental factors subsides, it is known as "The True and Only (and Inherently egoless) Conscious Light (Itself)".
- Thusness
Similarly, a fixed entity called mind (thinker) does not exist. When these factors subside we realise our True Mind, which is pure awareness, in the unmanifested realm. But we should not misunderstand that pure awareness resides only in an unmanifested state, as Form is Emptiness, Emptiness is Form, unmanifested and manifested are one - phenomena is also pure awareness when recognised.
Also, since the impression that there is a self is illusory, there is also absolutely no doer. Thoughts arise, it is just a happening, there is no thinker (no mind - remember the definition of no-mind in zen is thinking without subject/object relationship?) doing the thinking. Seeing arise, it is just a happening but no seer. Walking happens, but no one is walking, it is just a happening, arising out of conditions. This "happening" is our Buddha Nature functioning day in day out. What this also means is, spontaneity. In the midst of our living, let actions be aware and spontaneous, which is its nature, not done by any "doer". In reality there is no doer, just a happening. During emergency, there is no time to think about yourself, actions become spontaneous and that is when heroes arise. A doer is not needed... do you need to think, "I want to walk, I want to walk" at every step before you can walk? No, walking is natural, a "walker" doing "walking" is unnecessary. Therefore it is also not doing (wu-wei), or it is doing without doer.
But it should not be misunderstood that we cannot think. Thinking is also a function of our Buddha Nature. When thinking happens, it just happens, but no thinker. It is just phenomena arising, no different from your heart beat. Therefore there is problem only when you start seeking, grasping and discriminating. If you treat thoughts as something different or something to be supressed, that is wrong because any thoughts suppressed will strike back with greater force. Rather, like I said, what is necessary is to recognise its nature, it is an impersonal spontaneous-self-arising flow of consciousness. That alone is wisdom.
And so as Buddha put:
[quote]Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
"Mere suffering is, not any sufferer is found
The deeds exist, but no performer of the deeds:
Nibbana is, but not the man that enters it,
The path is, but no wanderer is to be seen.
No doer of the deeds is found,
No one who ever reaps their fruits,
Empty phenomena roll on,
This view alone is right and true.
No god, no Brahma, may be called,
The maker of this wheel of life,
Empty phenomena roll on,
Dependent on conditions all."
- Visuddhimagga XVI 90 -
Platform Sutra explained by a highly enlightened ex-moderator and zen practitioner, Namelessness who no longer posts...:
No thought, no form and no attachment is the quintessence of the Sutra. But it is not annihilation. It means to be detached from all thought, form and attachment.Originally posted by namelessness:Good Friends, it has been the tradition of our school to take 'No Thought' as the object, 'No Form' as the basis, and 'No Attachment' as the fundamental principle. 'No Form' means to be apart from the notion of forms when in contact with forms. 'No Thought' means to be away from thought when thought arises. 'No Attachment' is the characteristic of our nature. All things - good or bad, beautiful or ugly - should be treated as void. Even in time of disputes and quarrels we should treat our intimates and our enemies alike and never think of retaliation. From thought to thought, let the past be dead. If we allow our thoughts, past, present, and future, to link up in a series, it is called confinement. If we never let our mind attach to anything from thought to thought, and there will be no confinement. This is why 'No Attachment' is taken as the fundamental principle. Good Friends, to free ourselves from all external forms is called 'No Form'. When we are in a position to do so, the nature of Dharma will be pure. This is why 'No Form' is taken as the basis.Good Friends, to keep our mind free from defilement under all circumstances is called 'No Thought'. Our mind should stand aloof from circumstances, and allow no reaction to our mind from circumstances. But it is a great mistake to suppress our mind from all thinking; for even if we succeed in getting rid of all thoughts, and die immediately thereafter, still we shall be reincarnated elsewhere. Mark this, treaders of the Path. It is bad enough for a man to commit blunders from not knowing the meaning of the Dharma, but how much worse would it be to encourage others to follow suit? Being deluded, he sees not and in addition he blasphemes the Buddhist Canon. Therefore 'No Thought' is taken as the object.
Here the patriarch taught us how to be away from our thought. This is difficult because it will take us many years to practice that. But after that, our thoughts would be vanished naturally. That’s how ‘No thought’ can be accomplished. So it is not wise to suppress our mind from thinking, for whatever is suppressed will definitely strike back.
Good Friends, let me explain more fully why we take 'No Thought' as our object. It is because there is a type of man under delusion who boasts of the realization of the Self-nature; but being carried away by circumstances, ideas rise in his mind, followed by erroneous views that are the source of all sorts of false notions and defilements. In the Self-nature, there is intrinsically nothing to be attained. To say that there is attainment, and to talk thoughtlessly on merits or demerits are erroneous views and defilements. For this reason we take 'No Thought' as the object of our School.
Good Friends, what is that should be 'No'? What is that should be 'Thought'? 'No' means to have no dualistic and all defiling conceptions. 'Thought' means to fix our mind on the true nature of Tathata, for Tathata is the quintessence of thought, and thought is the result of the activity of Tathata. It is the positive essence of Tathata - not the sense organs - which gives rise to 'thought'. Tathata bears its own attribute, and therefore it can give rise to 'thought'. Without Tathata the sense organs and the sense objects would perish immediately.
Good Friends, because it is the attribute of Tathata which gives rise to 'thought', our sense organs - in spite of their functioning in seeing, hearing, touching, knowing, etc. - need not be tainted or defiled in all circumstances, and our true nature may be 'self-manifested' all the time. Therefore the Sutra says, "Even all Dharmas can be easily distinguished, the 'First Principle' is still immovable"
We still need to distinquish things in order to survive. The key to non-duality is to find our inner An-Hsiang first, and let An-Hsiang be the only response we have to all circumstances.
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is Bodhidharma really guan shi yin pusa when he came to china to spread zen buddhism in china?
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Yes, that was confirmed by another highly attained master who met lived in Bodhidharma's times. Guan Yin can emanate as so many different forms as written in Lotus Sutra Chapter 25, it wouldn't be too surprising.Originally posted by marcteng:is Bodhidharma really guan shi yin pusa when he came to china to spread zen buddhism in china? -
Did the Buddha asked Guan Shi Yin Pusa to go to china to spread zen?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes, that was confirmed by another highly attained master who met lived in Bodhidharma's times. Guan Yin can emanate as so many different forms as written in Lotus Sutra Chapter 25, it wouldn't be too surprising. -
No, the previous Zen patriarch asked Bodhidharma to go to China to spread Zen. Which means, Prajnatara, the second last Indian Zen patriarch (Bodhidharma is the last Indian Zen Patriarch).Originally posted by marcteng:Did the Buddha asked Guan Shi Yin Pusa to go to china to spread zen?
As you can see in the lineage chart below, the lineage of Zen begins directly from Buddha Shakyamuni himself, and is passed down through mind-transmission through successive lineages - including many famous Buddhist figures we known like Mahakasyapa and Ananda who are both one of the top 10 disciples of Buddha. Other notable Buddhist figures who are also Zen patriarch are for example, Nagarjuna, famous expounder of Emptiness doctrine.
The lineage first started from the Buddha when:Once, in ancient times, when the World-Honored One was at Mount Grdhrakata, he twirled a flower before his assembled disciples. All were silent. Only Mahakasyapa broke into a smile.
The Lineage
The World-Honored One said, "I have the eye treasury of right Dharma, the subtle mind of Nirvana, the true form of no-form, and the flawless gate of the teaching. It is not established upon words and phrases. It is a special transmission outside tradition. I now entrust this to Mahakasyapa."
Buddha Sakyamuni
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{Indian Patriarchs}
1. Mahakasyapa
2. Ananda
3. Sanavasa
4. Upagupta
5. Dhritaka
6. Michaka
7. Vasumitra
8. Buddhanandi
9. Buddhamitra
10. Parsva
11. Punyayasas
12. Bodhisattva Asvaghosa
13. Kapimala
14. Bodhisattva Nagarjuna
15. Kanadeva
16. Rahulata
17. Sanghanandi
18. Sanghayasas
19. Kumarata
20. Jayata
21. Vasubandhu
22. Manura (Manorhita/Manorhata)
23. Haklenayasas
24. Sinha
25. Vasiastia (Vasi-Asita)
26. Punyamitra
27. Prajnatara
{Zen patriarches in China begins here}
28. Bodhidharma (The 28th Indian Patriarch, the first Chinese Patriarch, who is an Indian) (d.535)
29. Shen-guang Hui-ke (487-593)
30. Seng-can (d.606)
31. Dong-shan Dao-xin (580-651)
32. Huang-mei Hong-ren (602-675)
33. Cao-xi Hui-neng (638-713)