Originally posted by Cenarious:
whats the diff
'Self' is an impression of dualism caused by karmic propensities brought over from countless life, it is also known as the seventh consciousness. 'Presence' is impersonal, pure consciousness. Shi fu says even after a glimpse of reality, karmic strength can pull one back to samsara... So of course there is a difference between 'jian zhen' and 'xiu zhen'. Now, the seventh consciousness is due to this karmic propensity, or karmic strength. It continues to be very strong even after a glimpse. What happen after that is often one will want to recapture the experience mentally.. It becomes an object, 'I Am' or a 'self'. They sink back to a 'source', something like a witness that is separated from the world, appearance and samsara. We see a lot of that in other religions, "atman-brahman", and so on. So to transcend that it is necessary for subsequent realisations and deepening of the experience and clearing of bonds. Thusness says, the formula for clarity is: 1/Self. It is alright to say "all is Self"... Ken wilber still says that, many highly enlightened authors say that. Even mahayana sutras sometimes say that... But there is a subtle difference. If there is a slightest sense of exclusion, a divide of the perceiver from the perceived, then they have fallen into error. So j krishnamurti says, there is no observer other than the observed. Or something like that. And thusness says, appearance IS the source.