argh how do i let go of concepts
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how do i become truly selfless
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can you help me get to thusness's level before this forum dies away
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sgforums is a concept.
quit.
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u can readOriginally posted by Cenarious:can you help me get to thusness's level before this forum dies away
Buddhism Plain and Simple
Steve Hagen -
There is really nothing you need to do.
Just like Bodhidharma pacified 2nd patriarch's mind by merely pointing out to him that his notion of mind didn't really exist. Similarly, concepts, self, have no reality at all.
If originally empty, what is there for you to "let go" of?
(p.s zheng min is nai min, he's always in charge of the comic section in RC magazines
)
Oh and it also reminded something I posted recently in the Daily Buddhist Verses:Originally posted by An Eternal Now:"It easily happens that a man, when taking a bath, steps upon a wet rope and imagines that it is a snake. Horror will overcome him, and he will shake from fear, anticipating in his thought all the agonies caused by the serpent's venomous bite. What a relief does this man experience when he sees that the rope is no snake! The cause of his fright lies in his error, his ignorance, his illusion. If the true nature of the rope is recognized, his tranquility of mind will come back to him; he will feel relieved; he will be joyful and happy. This is the state of mind of one who has recognized that there is no personal self, that the cause of all his troubles, cares, and vanities is a mirage, a shadow, a dream."
~ Buddha -
Follow the way of Buddha.. all thing material is immaterial..
N if u dun mind.. can u will all ur assets to me.. thx.. -
It truly is all a dream. Although we play along with it because cause and conditions apply in the relative sense.
http://www.shamarpa.org/teachings/lodjong.php
One of the most famous quotation from Diamond Sutra:
.........Ultimate Bodhicitta - the body of the practice
Think that all the events, manifestations, and movements of mind are illusory as in the nature of a dream, unreal and false. For example, when we are sleeping, our dream seems real to us when it is absolutely unreal: if it were real, then the dream would really be happening. In the same way, our world and the beings in it in all their diversities are but the illusive manifestations of mind. While the illusion is taking place, it is "real", but its essence is unreal like a dream. Therefore regard all phenomena as insignificant, similar to a dream, and rest your mind in this perspective in the moment.
Ask yourself, "is mind itself real, or not?" This is your own experiment to lead you to recognize mind. You have to meditate on the mind and ask yourself: What color is it? What is its form? Where does it come from? What is its purpose? Is it inside or outside of the body? What happens when it experiences heat or the cold? Reflect on the mind in this way. You may come to the conclusion that the mind defies any such determination and that is the essence of mind. You must meditate on this point.
When a thought arises, look at it directly and ask yourself, "What is its true nature?" Remain in the understanding that "it is nothing." It is said that all the thoughts are stored in the alaya. The alaya is the mind unconscious, the thinker of the mental confusions. It is the one who runs after the sounds, the forms, the odors, the tastes and the feelings. The mind is seen when one remains in a state free of running after something. For example, when one has work has to do, the mind is thus engaged and thinks, for example, "What will I cook today? or, "I will cleanÂ…",etc. When the mind is no longer carrying on with such thoughts, it is the alaya. The body of the practice is to remain in this kind of meditation for as long time as possible. In fact, it is a meditation similar to the way of Mahamudra.
Ultimate Bodhicitta - post-meditation
During your everyday life, exert yourself to recognize everything as illusory-like and unreal............"All conditioned Dharmas
Are like dreams, illusions, bubbles, shadows
Like dew drops, a lightning flash
Contemplate them thus" -
There is something to do... That is the gradual relinquishing of all endeavours.
For example, you cannot wish to be very rich and yet be liberated. The wish to be rich is an attachment. So liberation and many of the activities of normal society must be mutually-non exclusive. We cannot have all and yet want to liberate.
We cannot be engaged in certain activities and still thinks that we are liberated. The activities that is being engaged is always due to certain desires...and/or fear. Fear is also a form of desire...negative desire.
Perhaps, we live life to discover the karmic patterns that binds us to certain activities and relationship. And we must take the additional step to clear these patterns... resulting in transformation. In the process of transformation, the old activity will become incompatible to the newer state of being. One either gets ejected from the prior situation or move out on their own accord.
For example, your job requires you to perform certain things and the driving factor of you performing these thing at this speed is fear. But in the newer state of being, your performances will suffer because you are less fear driven. So... in the end you leave the job or gets fired. In either situation, you get ejected out of the old situation.
Perhaps... in the final stage, the yogi have to leave behind normal everyday life and live in solitude.
This is my opinion...please correct me if i am wrong. -
Yes i agree with you that material pursuits aren't really that important. When one's practice deepens the need to acquire and accumulate money/possessions more than what is needed for survival becomes like a useless "thought-form" that must be relinquished.Originally posted by longchen:There is something to do... That is the gradual relinquishing of all endeavours.
For example, you cannot wish to be very rich and yet be liberated. The wish to be rich is an attachment. So liberation and many of the activities of normal society must be mutually-non exclusive. We cannot have all and yet want to liberate.
We cannot be engaged in certain activities and still thinks that we are liberated. The activities that is being engaged is always due to certain desires...and/or fear. Fear is also a form of desire...negative desire.
Perhaps, we live life to discover the karmic patterns that binds us to certain activities and relationship. And we must take the additional step to clear these patterns... resulting in transformation. In the process of transformation, the old activity will become incompatible to the newer state of being. One either gets ejected from the prior situation or move out on their own accord.
For example, your job requires you to perform certain things and the driving factor of you performing these thing at this speed is fear. But in the newer state of being, your performances will suffer because you are less fear driven. So... in the end you leave the job or gets fired. In either situation, you get ejected out of the old situation.
Perhaps... in the final stage, the yogi have to leave behind normal everyday life and live in solitude.
This is my opinion...please correct me if i am wrong.
But i think your last part is a little extreme because lots of enlightened people continue to work and stay in society isn't it? As you probably know.. In buddhism there is the fundamental eight fold path that leads the enlightenment. Basically it is a list of things that tells us to do that are conducive for enlightenment. One of them is right livelihood. If you find that the job is not conducive to awakening then you may change them. But if one's livelihood is upright, neither harming oneself and others, conducive for awakening. Then i think there shouldn't be any problems.
On the other hand it is true that the arahant and the pratyekabuddha will want to seek solitude. Pratyekabuddhas are also known to leave societies into the wilderness. One type stays in packs of few people, while the more advanced ones the buddha calls "rhinoceros like", and lives alone. These people are seeking to enter nirvana. But the bodhisattva is different, while he can enter nirvana he purposely stays in samsara... he will probably be in the society, training his ten paramitas, helping others. (although there will be certain livetimes that bodhisattvas stay somewhere else to meditate). Bodhisattva vows are thusness calls it, faith on the saint level (or something like that), for the buddha himself taught it this way and that all are eventually headed for perfect buddhahood. Although he also mentioned that he hasn't taken any vows... Haha. The five tozan ranks does mention the integration of "absolute" with "relative" and how it relates to bodhisattva practices.
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/bodhisattva/five_ranks.html -
thus learn, that if you can pick any one of the paramitas that you find suit oneself and stick to it all the way, one can reach the other shore. ie, if one just practice renunciation all the way, sooner or later, you'll reach Buddhahood. or if u want u can practice insight all the way, you'll also reach Buddhahood. and so on for the rest.
Dana parami : generosity, giving of oneself
Sila parami : virtue, morality, proper conduct
Nekkhamma parami : renunciation
Panna parami : transcendental wisdom, insight
Viriya parami : energy, diligence, vigour, effort
Khanti parami : patience, tolerance, forbearance, acceptance,
endurance
/\ -
Hi Longchen,Originally posted by longchen:There is something to do... That is the gradual relinquishing of all endeavours.
For example, you cannot wish to be very rich and yet be liberated. The wish to be rich is an attachment. So liberation and many of the activities of normal society must be mutually-non exclusive. We cannot have all and yet want to liberate.
We cannot be engaged in certain activities and still thinks that we are liberated. The activities that is being engaged is always due to certain desires...and/or fear. Fear is also a form of desire...negative desire.
Perhaps, we live life to discover the karmic patterns that binds us to certain activities and relationship. And we must take the additional step to clear these patterns... resulting in transformation. In the process of transformation, the old activity will become incompatible to the newer state of being. One either gets ejected from the prior situation or move out on their own accord.
For example, your job requires you to perform certain things and the driving factor of you performing these thing at this speed is fear. But in the newer state of being, your performances will suffer because you are less fear driven. So... in the end you leave the job or gets fired. In either situation, you get ejected out of the old situation.
Perhaps... in the final stage, the yogi have to leave behind normal everyday life and live in solitude.
This is my opinion...please correct me if i am wrong.
Fear is the painful emotion that arises from the act of resisting separation. It is usually triggered by the apprehension that what we treasure deeply is in jeopardy. Fear is a manifestation of a deep latent tendency of attachment (seed) in consciousness when conditions are there, it emerges. The seed may also manifest as pleasure. The seed is the cause and depending on conditions, it manifests differently. The manifestation can be radically different, therefore we should not mistake the seed as the manifestation. When conditions arenÂ’t there, fear does not exist. Fear is not simply a thought; it is a whole movement of flow taking place not only in thoughts, but in the forms, in the heart beats, in the blood circulation, in our breathÂ…The entire process is not something mechanical; it is extremely organic, alive and vivid.
How does the seed get created? Through constant identification and attachment, patterns and tendencies are formed and they sank deep beyond the layer of our ordinary consciousness. It is these latent tendencies that are difficult to overcome when they meet conditions. It is good to gain strength in a form of virtuous practice as the practice goes through the same process and manifests positive qualities of the mind that helps to dissolve negative tendencies.
Once, I was meditating at night, the conditions for dream took place but I was well aware that I was still meditating. In the dream, someone pass me a piece of cake to try ( sounded really delicious)Â…I took the cake, look at it and in the midst of putting it into my mouth in the dream, I open my physical mouth!...heehee
DonÂ’t underestimate what that is latent deep in our consciousness.
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Wow.. what a wonderful post on FearOriginally posted by Thusness:Hi Longchen,
Fear is the painful emotion that arises from the act of resisting separation. It is usually triggered by the apprehension that what we treasure deeply is in jeopardy. Fear is a manifestation of a deep latent tendency of attachment (seed) in consciousness when conditions are there, it emerges. The seed may also manifest as pleasure. The seed is the cause and depending on conditions, it manifests differently. The manifestation can be radically different, therefore we should not mistake the seed as the manifestation. When conditions arenÂ’t there, fear does not exist. Fear is not simply a thought; it is a whole movement of flow taking place not only in thoughts, but in the forms, in the heart beats, in the blood circulation, in our breathÂ…The entire process is not something mechanical; it is extremely organic, alive and vivid.
How does the seed get created? Through constant identification and attachment, patterns and tendencies are formed and they sank deep beyond the layer of our ordinary consciousness. It is these latent tendencies that are difficult to overcome when they meet conditions. It is good to gain strength in a form of virtuous practice as the practice goes through the same process and manifests positive qualities of the mind that helps to dissolve negative tendencies.
Once, I was meditating at night, the conditions for dream took place but I was well aware that I was still meditating. In the dream, someone pass me a piece of cake to try ( sounded really delicious)Â…I took the cake, look at it and in the midst of putting it into my mouth in the dream, I open my physical mouth!...heehee
DonÂ’t underestimate what that is latent deep in our consciousness.
Anyway was just wondering... during the time where conditions of your dream manifests, how would you know that you are meditating and opening your mouth? Does the 5 sense consciousnesses continue to function?
Anyway I was reminded of something Teacher Chen mentioned when reading your post... he taught that our everyday reactions to the external world can be summarised in four steps.
1) I see a mass of things
Because the 'thing' you saw is still distant away and you cannot see clearly, you also do not know that you are looking at. There is just the Sight, and it is the functioning of our Buddha Nature, Pristine Awareness. There is no mental reactions whatsoever (yet), nor labeling.
2) "Wah, Money!"
When we got closer to the object at the distant, we instantly recognised what it is - money. The reason why we recognised it as money is because we have seen and used the money before and many times, the currency is also familiar to us, we have planted the 'seed' of 'money' in our 8th consciousness and therefore, when the conditions are present, we spontaneously recognised it as "money".
3) "I came first, this is mine"
Due to our ignorance and habitual defilements, we 'personalise' the situation by making a stance that the money belongs to me, I came first, etc. Also known as 7th consciousness. There starts to be grasping and seeking, desire and lust.
4) Sin committed, resulting in either landing up in jail or rebirth in hell
You took away the money you are not supposed to take away and share with those around you, thereby committing a very heavy karma. The money could be used to save other people's life or for other important reasons, but somehow out of ignorance you cannot resist the temptations, and for that you will suffer karmic effects by ending up with a jail term and a horrible afterlife.
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So moral of the story is... do not wait until Step 4, it is too late. When 'Step 2' happens, we must instantly recognise it with mindfulness, and the thought is self-liberated. Otherwise we will go on seeking and grasping, leading to step 3, and step 4. Step 2 is the Cause/Seed, and Step 4 is the Effect. Step 1 is merely the functioning of our pristine awareness, buddha nature. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:There is really nothing you need to do.
Just like Bodhidharma pacified 2nd patriarch's mind by merely pointing out to him that his notion of mind didn't really exist. Similarly, concepts, self, have no reality at all.
If originally empty, what is there for you to "let go" of?
(p.s zheng min is nai min, he's always in charge of the comic section in RC magazines)
Oh and it also reminded something I posted recently in the Daily Buddhist Verses:
I tot DaMo says he is going to "AnMo" his heart !?
hahaha Massage him. -
You see wrongly la... An Xin.. pacify his mind, calm his mind.Originally posted by NotFromVenus: Ｉtot DaMo says he is going to "AnMo" his heart !?
hahaha Massage him. -
" Da Mo " mah ....... master of " An Mo " massage .Originally posted by An Eternal Now:You see wrongly la... An Xin.. pacify his mind, calm his mind.
Give me your heart I do indian massage ! -
Originally posted by NotFromVenus:" Da Mo " mah ....... master of " An Mo " massage .
Give me your heart I do indian massage ! -
Thank you Eternal Now and Thusness for the insightful posts.
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Originally posted by longchen:
This is very true, longchen. Ultimately all have to go.
[b]There is something to do... That is the gradual relinquishing of all endeavours.
This is also true. To live adequately is wisdom. Ceaseless external pursuit is always due to lack of life, vitality and clarity within us. As long as this deficy continues, pursuing continues. If we experience these qualities innerly, we will not be swayed.
For example, you cannot wish to be very rich and yet be liberated. The wish to be rich is an attachment. So liberation and many of the activities of normal society must be mutually-non exclusive. We cannot have all and yet want to liberate.
Having said so, opportunities will still arise as long as we are in a soceity. Engaging these opportunities with a non-attachment in non-action is the way.
This is most important. Feel the effect of it.
Perhaps, we live life to discover the karmic patterns that binds us to certain activities and relationship. And we must take the additional step to clear these patterns... resulting in transformation. In the process of transformation, the old activity will become incompatible to the newer state of being. One either gets ejected from the prior situation or move out on their own accord.
Of late I have been reading some non-dual sites. Though the experience of non-duality is there, it is just the entry towards the pathless, there is still a long way to go. Many got lost in the clarity, vitality and intelligence aspects of Presence but fail to acknowledge how karmic propensities work and take place. This is not spirituality; to some extend it is ignorance. Know conditions, know that these propensities exist and continue to manifest in lives and activities (for Buddhists if we do not have the sufficient insight and experience to penetrate the present life, we have to take faith), then correct advice can be given. Going beyond conditioning requires deep level of clarity of how the nature of consciousness works.
We must acknowledge that although the bond of 'self' is greatly loosen; it is far from being totally eliminated. When our bodies are in great danger, we will realize how much attachments we still have for them though there is the constant awareness that awareness is the reality. Clarity can only come with the bond breaks. The letting go must be genuine, total openness and receptivity is required to experience our true nature.
Possibly but not conclusively. I do not deny that there are just certain aspects of consciousness that require us to work undisturbed deligently. Sufficient level of clarity is required to serve as the condition and momentum for deeper level of insight to take place. For this, one might have to leave behind normal everyday life and live in solitude for a period of time. But in the final stage, one's action is totally indeterminable.
Perhaps... in the final stage, the yogi have to leave behind normal everyday life and live in solitude.
] -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
The key is in stilling the physical body into a state of complete rest if we want to practice meditation over night. When the 'conditions' of sleep begin to manifest, the body begin to paralyse and the senses dim down but the awareness is still there. When the physical body is stil, we enter into 'thought body' phase. When thought is still, the state of bliss is experienced. It is true that after the experience of certain fruition, there is the temptation to extend it beyond sleep but this is highly not recommended. Though some spiritual teachers spoke of mantaining awareness throughout the waking, dreaming and deep sleep phases, do not do that if not under the guidance of highly experience meditators. More often than not, it will upset the body mechancism, almost without fail. Bear this in mind. This is my advice.
Wow.. what a wonderful post on Fear Anyway was just wondering... during the time where conditions of your dream manifests, how would you know that you are meditating and opening your mouth? Does the 5 sense consciousnesses continue to function?
Interesting analogy. That will provide insight to the ever grasping mind that there is a way beyond thought. When the ability to sustain gathers strength, the bliss and beauty of clarity is experienced. The grasping mind will be more willing to let go of itself for this higher mode of insight to replace its dualitic knowing nature. Mindfulness must go hand in hand with the understanding that there is no-self apart from the continous arising and ceasing. In fact there is only the momentary manifestation. The mirror reflecting must go as it too is an illusion. Only no-self and emptiness nature of reality is seen. its ultimate goal is to realise that there is really only One Reality.
Anyway I was reminded of something Teacher Chen mentioned when reading your post... he taught that our everyday reactions to the external world can be summarised in four steps.
1) I see a mass of things
Because the 'thing' you saw is still distant away and you cannot see clearly, you also do not know that you are looking at. There is just the Sight, and it is the functioning of our Buddha Nature, Pristine Awareness. There is no mental reactions whatsoever (yet), nor labeling.
2) "Wah, Money!"
When we got closer to the object at the distant, we instantly recognised what it is - money. The reason why we recognised it as money is because we have seen and used the money before and many times, the currency is also familiar to us, we have planted the 'seed' of 'money' in our 8th consciousness and therefore, when the conditions are present, we spontaneously recognised it as "money".
3) "I came first, this is mine"
Due to our ignorance and habitual defilements, we 'personalise' the situation by making a stance that the money belongs to me, I came first, etc. Also known as 7th consciousness. There starts to be grasping and seeking, desire and lust.
4) Sin committed, resulting in either landing up in jail or rebirth in hell
You took away the money you are not supposed to take away and share with those around you, thereby committing a very heavy karma. The money could be used to save other people's life or for other important reasons, but somehow out of ignorance you cannot resist the temptations, and for that you will suffer karmic effects by ending up with a jail term and a horrible afterlife.
----------
So moral of the story is... do not wait until Step 4, it is too late. When 'Step 2' happens, we must instantly recognise it with mindfulness, and the thought is self-liberated. Otherwise we will go on seeking and grasping, leading to step 3, and step 4. Step 2 is the Cause/Seed, and Step 4 is the Effect. Step 1 is merely the functioning of our pristine awareness, buddha nature.[/b] -
Hi Thusness,
Thanks for the detailed posts...They are very interesting and i fully agree.
regards