I think I have seen selflessness
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how can i be taken advantage of if there is no self? and its not like im gonna give them everything i have.Originally posted by NotFromVenus:I don't exactly quote from the bible coz I'm not christian and a bible fanatic.
Somewhere in life I was given this knowledge by a christian friend of mine to affirm my understanding of this path.
added after:
Discovery of "Empathetic" can lead to greatness or your own weakness that others whom do not share this empathy can take advantage of. Please have a balance once you have taken control of being empathetic or sympathetic.
Not everyone appreciates Empathy. -
Swindlers from China loves to take advantage of sympathetic behaviour , and acts to invoke your empathetic behavior for a mere donation.Originally posted by Cenarious:how can i be taken advantage of if there is no self? and its not like im gonna give them everything i have.
If you know that your earned $$$ could do better than to feed people who does not contribute others than to themselves. Then you might have felt sympathetic to your own donation?
Anyways , people are made to behave in certain ways by " beneficiaries " who have "Power" to even legalize their own salaries. So if you hop in and out of their souls you might find yourself giving yourself reasons why they need to do so.
Such that there is order and peace in this World? -
Yes personality is conditioned arising, not self, is empty of inherent existence. But if intellectually understanding this is enlightenment, then i would have been enlightened a very long time agoOriginally posted by Cenarious:it all doesnt matter because whatever needs to be done will be done by those involved. having no desire and aversion is important for this.
If intellectually understanding emptiness or no self = enlightenment, then millions of buddhists in the world now are enlightened . Obviously 'intellectual enlightenment' is not the enlightenment in buddhism. But i shall not comment more and wait for the more enlightened ones to answer you.. Because it would be bad karma for me to prevent wiser people from answering when requested. -
So this is a right view so if i continue thinking like this will i eventually become enlightened?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes personality is conditioned arising, not self, is empty of inherent existence. But if intellectually understanding this is enlightenment, then i would have been enlightened a very long time ago If intellectually understanding emptiness or no self = enlightenment, then millions of buddhists in the world now are enlightened . Obviously 'intellectual enlightenment' is not the enlightenment in buddhism. But i shall not comment more and wait for the more enlightened ones to answer you.. Because it would be bad karma for me to prevent wiser people from answering when requested. -
you are still thinking in terms of selves with desire and aversionOriginally posted by NotFromVenus:Swindlers from China loves to take advantage of sympathetic behaviour , and acts to invoke your empathetic behavior for a mere donation.
If you know that your earned $$$ could do better than to feed people who does not contribute others than to themselves. Then you might have felt sympathetic to your own donation?
Anyways , people are made to behave in certain ways by " beneficiaries " who have "Power" to even legalize their own salaries. So if you hop in and out of their souls you might find yourself giving yourself reasons why they need to do so.
Such that there is order and peace in this World? -
Yesterday I was too tired to think and understand what you were saying. But now I looked at your posts and they were clearly fatalistic. Not Buddhist at all. Definitely has nothing got to do with no-self. It is simply the idea of fatalism. And no will. There is will, but no self making will. There is thoughts, but no thinker.
Nothing of this mentioned about no-self.Originally posted by Cenarious:it all doesnt matter because whatever needs to be done will be done by those involved. having no desire and aversion is important for this.
This statement assumes that there is an existence of 'you' and 'i', and if 'i' become 'you', 'i' will act the same as 'you'. This is an illusion. How has that got to do with 'no self'? Conditions serve as a possibility for you to act on them. It does not mean you will act on them.Originally posted by Cenarious:because if i were you i would have acted exactly like how u acted
It doesn't mean you will do charity. Some people might choose not to do charity due to selfish or evil thoughts. Conditions are there, but whether you make a will to do charity is another thing. No-self doesn't mean no-will. And will doesn't mean self. Will is just will, there is no self.Originally posted by Cenarious:those who come upon the conditions to do charity will do the charity. if i were that person i will also do the exact same thing. same for u because the conditions are exactly the same.
and im only seeking confirmation here.
But Eckhart Tolle's 'Choice implies consciousness' applies. If you are 'unconscious', then you will simply go along with the conditionings. If conditions are bad, you will grow up as a drug addict, gangster, and screw up. If you are 'conscious', karmic conditions make you live in a drug addict, gangster family, but you grow upright. You are not lured due to 'unconsciousness' into the Step 3 and Step 4 of what Teacher Chen said. So you will not end up in jail. Therefore there is a saying that Buddhadharma can change your 'fate'. This is absolutely true.
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/tibet/karma_thanisaro.html
For the early Buddhists, karma was non-linear. Other Indian schools believed that karma operated in a straight line, with actions from the past influencing the present, and present actions influencing the future. As a result, they saw little room for free will.
Buddhists, however, saw that karma acts in feedback loops, with the present moment being shaped both by past and by present actions; present actions shape not only the future but also the present.
This constant opening for present input into the causal process makes free will possible.
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm
Thus, from a Buddhist point of view, our present mental, moral intellectual and temperamental differences are, for the most part, due to our own actions and tendencies, both past and present.
Although Buddhism attributes this variation to Karma, as being the chief cause among a variety, it does not, however, assert that everything is due to Karma. The law of Karma, important as it is, is only one of the twenty-four conditions described in Buddhist Philosophy.
Refuting the erroneous view that "whatsoever fortune or misfortune experienced is all due to some previous action", the Buddha said:
"So, then, according to this view, owing to previous action men will become murderers, thieves, unchaste, liars, slanderers, covetous, malicious and perverts. Thus, for those who fall back on the former deeds as the essential reason, there is neither the desire to do, nor effort to do, nor necessity to do this deed, or abstain from this deed."
It was this important text, which states the belief that all physical circumstances and mental attitudes spring solely from past Karma that Buddha contradicted. If the present life is totally conditioned or wholly controlled by our past actions, then certainly Karma is tantamount to fatalism or determinism or predestination. If this were true, free will would be an absurdity. Life would be purely mechanistic, not much different from a machine. Being created by an Almighty God who controls our destinies and predetermines our future, or being produced by an irresistible Karma that completely determines our fate and controls our lifeÂ’s course, independent of any free action on our part, is essentially the same. The only difference lies in the two words God and Karma. One could easily be substituted for the other, because the ultimate operation of both forces would be identical.
Such a fatalistic doctrine is not the Buddhist law of Karma.
But most people's idea, and the general western idea of free will is also extreme and the term free will could be misinterpreted to mean that there is a controller of events. It is not so.
Here is a more balanced view:
http://www.thinkbuddha.org/article/173/life-without-free-will
In other words, nirvana is the concrete realization of “no free will.” It is also the concrete realization of “no determinism.” For in order for something to be determined, it must be determined by something OUTSIDE itself. But if there is ultimately nothing outside us to force us to choose what we do, then we are no more determined to make the choices we do than we are free to make them. They simply “arise of themselves in relation to circumstances.”
On a higher level, nothing ever arose and exists merely as a potential. I think that is called 'alaya' and is beyond time and space.
By the way those who have paypal or bank accounts, please support sgForums by signing their membership. The servers are crawling now. I typed a similar reply as this one, pressed Submit, waited for 3 minutes and my post is gone. And I have to retype it again. I have no paypal accounts and I don't use bank accounts (my parents take care of them). -
By the way I have been reading teachings of certain non-Buddhist teachers to get a feel of what they are teaching. Some teachers certainly have a high understanding of non-dualism, but when it comes to topics such as karma, they become totally off.
One example is Ramesh Balsekar. His understanding of karma is a perfect example of 'linear mode analysis' of conditionings and becomes a model of fatalism. I remember Thusness having bad comments on how Ramesh Balsekar taught that humans are something like mechanical and programmed mind-body organism. Not too sure of Tony Parsons. May Thusness comment on this. -
No not exactly so. More on the part that he said we are here out of randomness. Short circuited and somehow, here!Originally posted by An Eternal Now:One example is Ramesh Balsekar. His understanding of karma is a perfect example of 'linear mode analysis' of conditionings and becomes a model of fatalism. I remember Thusness having bad comments on how Ramesh Balsekar taught that humans are something like mechanical and programmed mind-body organism. Not too sure of Tony Parsons. May Thusness comment on this.
Is it possible that on one hand there is this great witness constant and on the otherhand there is this ever changing manifestation and still there is the experience of non-duality? Impermanence is a dharma seal. Explore further. -
For the early Buddhists, karma was non-linear. Other Indian schools believed that karma operated in a straight line, with actions from the past influencing the present, and present actions influencing the future. As a result, they saw little room for free will.
woah, now then u say
Buddhists, however, saw that karma acts in feedback loops, with the present moment being shaped both by past and by present actions; present actions shape not only the future but also the present.
This constant opening for present input into the causal process makes free will possible. -
Conditions are there, but whether you make a will to do charity is another thing.
In other words, nirvana is the concrete realization of “no free will.”
aren't you contradicting yourself?
conditions determine if you will make that will or not, or whether you are conscious or not. you are also conditioned.
but yeah i agree that it is also not determinism but only as long as u dont keep holding onto the past -
This statement assumes that there is an existence of 'you' and 'i', and if 'i' become 'you', 'i' will act the same as 'you'. This is an illusion. How has that got to do with 'no self'? Conditions serve as a possibility for you to act on them. It does not mean you will act on them.
relatively we are separate things. as our nature is the same u will act the same as u did. everything including your mind are just graphics on a tv screen. -
You cannot be " enlightened " if you live in your own perceived world.Originally posted by Cenarious:relatively we are separate things. as our nature is the same u will act the same as u did. everything including your mind are just graphics on a tv screen.
Precisely the great monk answers : there can never be all monks and nuns. Becoz this world will need offsprings.
What is necessary is life , and this alone is worth living for. -
?????Originally posted by NotFromVenus:You cannot be " enlightened " if you live in your own perceived world.
Precisely the great monk answers : there can never be all monks and nuns. Becoz this world will need offsprings.
What is necessary is life , and this alone is worth living for. -
Sometimes even the future shapes the present .
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how? i cant see into the future elaborate plzOriginally posted by NotFromVenus:Sometimes even the future shapes the present .
isnt it more about the principles or nature of existence? -
Do you see why sometimes certain measures are put in place because of foreseeable accidents/actions?Originally posted by Cenarious:how? i cant see into the future elaborate plz
Why do you see "De-Ja-Vu?"
Why do you think you are learning about afterlife? Because you are not dead yet? -
foreseeable accidents are only known because we know the principle that if people drink and drive they will crash.Originally posted by NotFromVenus:Do you see why sometimes certain measures are put in place because of foreseeable accidents/actions?
Why do you see "De-Ja-Vu?"
Why do you think you are learning about afterlife? Because you are not dead yet?
de ja vu only happens at the instance when you are having that de ja vu. i dont think i saw into the future before.
its been like 3 years since i last asked about the afterlife. -
So have you found proof that the future does not shape the present?Originally posted by Cenarious:foreseeable accidents are only known because we know the principle that if people drink and drive they will crash.
de ja vu only happens at the instance when you are having that de ja vu. i dont think i saw into the future before.
its been like 3 years since i last asked about the afterlife.
Then there shall be no more prophets and those prophets are all fakes? -
i dunnoOriginally posted by NotFromVenus:So have you found proof that the future does not shape the present?
Then there shall be no more prophets and those prophets are all fakes? -
Juz learn from appreciating life and life of appreciating.
Too much junk knowledge sometimes confuses the simple teaching of encouragement and progress. -
NotFromVenus always bring in 'seeing the future' themesOriginally posted by Cenarious:how? i cant see into the future elaborate plz
isnt it more about the principles or nature of existence? 
Propheciser! -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:NotFromVenus always bring in 'seeing the future' themes
Propheciser! Seen too much , and bad habit of not keeping myself shut! -
I'm not contradicting what... there is will, there is choice, but no chooser, no willer. Read carefullyOriginally posted by Cenarious:aren't you contradicting yourself?
conditions determine if you will make that will or not, or whether you are conscious or not. you are also conditioned.
but yeah i agree that it is also not determinism but only as long as u dont keep holding onto the past -
ya thats exactly what im talking about. when you are supposed to act it means you have become involved.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I'm not contradicting what... there is will, there is choice, but no chooser, no willer. Read carefully -
But if you understood what I said, fate can be changedOriginally posted by NotFromVenus: Seen too much , and bad habit of not keeping myself shut!