I think I have seen selflessness
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ohOriginally posted by Cenarious:i read it somewhere and thought it sounded cool, didnt think it was related to enlightenment back then
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There is no free will in the sense that there is a controller of events. But there is This constant opening for present input into the causal process makes free will possible. This freedom is symbolized in the imagery that Buddhists use to explain the process: flowing water:Originally posted by Cenarious:but then is there really free will ultimately? can you be fully enlightened right now?
Sometimes the flow from the past is so strong that little can be done except to stand fast, but there are also times when the flow can be diverted in almost any direction.
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But you can't say that you can be enlightened right now. That is why Teacher Chen said we have 'ru lai de xing', but he said we are NOT yet 'ru lai'. It is true our Buddha Nature is ever-present, wholly complete, neither increase nor decreases upon enlightenment, but that is the absolute level, we cannot forsake the various conditions that is the cause of our bondage. Our karmic propensities and bondage to symbols, and so on. The 'flow from the past is too strong'. So like Thusness said, I do not deny that there are just certain aspects of consciousness that require us to work undisturbed deligently. Sufficient level of clarity is required to serve as the condition and momentum for deeper level of insight to take place.
Therefore there's a saying that some karma can be changed easily, some are a lot harder. -
Let go of the future, then enjoy the present.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:There is no free will in the sense that there is a controller of events. But there is This constant opening for present input into the causal process makes free will possible. This freedom is symbolized in the imagery that Buddhists use to explain the process: flowing water:
Sometimes the flow from the past is so strong that little can be done except to stand fast, but there are also times when the flow can be diverted in almost any direction.
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But you can't say that you can be enlightened right now. That is why Teacher Chen said we have 'ru lai de xing', but he said we are NOT yet 'ru lai'. It is true our Buddha Nature is ever-present, wholly complete, neither increase nor decreases upon enlightenment, but that is the absolute level, we cannot forsake the various conditions that is the cause of our bondage. Our karmic propensities and bondage to symbols, and so on. The 'flow from the past is too strong'. So like Thusness said, I do not deny that there are just certain aspects of consciousness that require us to work undisturbed deligently. Sufficient level of clarity is required to serve as the condition and momentum for deeper level of insight to take place.
Therefore there's a saying that some karma can be changed easily, some are a lot harder. -
Yes... that is what Stillness is about.. don't grasp, don't hold, don't do anything... just flowOriginally posted by NotFromVenus:Let go of the future, then enjoy the present.
By the way you may want to borrow or get the book 'The Power of Now' by Eckhart Tolle if you haven't
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what is the answerOriginally posted by Thusness:No not exactly so. More on the part that he said we are here out of randomness. Short circuited and somehow, here!
Is it possible that on one hand there is this great witness constant and on the otherhand there is this ever changing manifestation and still there is the experience of non-duality? Impermanence is a dharma seal. Explore further. -
Great constant witness is also an illusion.Originally posted by Cenarious:what is the answer
Dissolving the great constant, one moves from falcrum 9 to falcrum 10.
Only manifestation. Only change. But timeless manifestation -
That would be the third kind of mistake on karmaOriginally posted by Thusness:No not exactly so. More on the part that he said we are here out of randomness. Short circuited and somehow, here!
3 false views:
1. Pubbekatahetuvada: The belief that all happiness and suffering arise from previous kamma (Past-action determinism).
2. Issaranimmanahetuvada: The belief that all happiness and suffering are caused by the directives of a Supreme Being (Theistic determinism).
3. Ahetu-apaccayavada: The belief that all happiness and suffering are random, having no cause (Indeterminism or Accidentalism). -
More on 'changing fate':
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erm so isn't it fated that everyone will eventually become full buddhas, no matter how long it takes? that's the way nature is.
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can u give an example of how indeterminable one's actions can be in the final stage?
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Just a guess...Originally posted by Cenarious:can u give an example of how indeterminable one's actions can be in the final stage?
Whatever happens is a mere happening, and to a liberated person it does not happen due to one's effort/will/action, which is Karma. A saint is freed from creating more karma. So what he does, is due to wisdom. His actions, speech, thoughts self-arises out of wisdom, 'awareness', but there he knows there is no 'self' that is doing that.
He does not need anything.. he does not need to go to the woods, etc, because the last trace of 'self' is diminished. Whatever happens self-arises and self-liberates, and no one is doing anything. To someone who doesn't have any 'needs' (which is linked to self), naturally his actions are indeterminable. -
the thread i think i have seen 'selflessness'
Is selflessness here refers to nihilism? -
no. wow, i thought one would only link emptiness to nihilism (im not saying emptiness is nihilism either).Originally posted by Isis:the thread i think i have seen 'selflessness'
Is selflessness here refers to nihilism? -
But not the teachings of emptiness by Buddha, that is beyond the extremes of nihilism or eternalism.Originally posted by Cenarious:no. wow, i thought one would only link emptiness to nihilism (im not saying emptiness is nihilism either). -
that sounds like fate, doesnt it?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Just a guess...
Whatever happens is a mere happening, and to a liberated person it does not happen due to one's effort/will/action, which is Karma. A saint is freed from creating more karma. So what he does, is due to wisdom. His actions, speech, thoughts self-arises out of wisdom, 'awareness', but there he knows there is no 'self' that is doing that.
He does not need anything.. he does not need to go to the woods, etc, because the last trace of 'self' is diminished. Whatever happens self-arises and self-liberates, and no one is doing anything. To someone who doesn't have any 'needs' (which is linked to self), naturally his actions are indeterminable. -
i think u need to reread my post.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:But not the teachings of emptiness by Buddha, that is beyond the extremes of nihilism or eternalism. -
There is still choice.Originally posted by Cenarious:that sounds like fate, doesnt it?
But there is no grasping on self thats all. The choice self arises and self liberates, no one is choosing. -
choice or no choice, does it make a difference with regards to fate? what determines the choice that someone chooses? conditions?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:There is still choice.
But there is no grasping on self thats all. The choice self arises and self liberates, no one is choosing. -
ehhhhhhh after i browse through the entire thread as i didnt follow up...Originally posted by Cenarious:choice or no choice, does it make a difference with regards to fate?
It has evolved to nothing-to-do with the first post?Originally posted by Cenarious:it all doesnt matter because whatever needs to be done will be done by those involved. having no desire and aversion is important for this. -
ur fate means already pre-destined?Originally posted by Cenarious:choice or no choice, does it make a difference with regards to fate? -
blame venus, he introduced the idea of "future shaping the present" into this topic.Originally posted by Isis:ehhhhhhh after i browse through the entire thread as i didnt follow up...
It has evolved to nothing-to-do with the first post? -
Yes. But you cannot think that you already know what your fate is and you cannot think that it is all predestined, because if you think like that then you fall into fatalism and you will probably end up not putting 100% into the things you do.Originally posted by Isis:ur fate means already pre-destined? -
Funny... then how u know what u say is right if u don't know what is ur fate in the first place?Originally posted by Cenarious:Yes. But you cannot think that you already know what your fate is and you cannot think that it is all predestined, because if you think like that then you fall into fatalism and you will probably end up not putting 100% into the things you do. -
Then let me ask you. What determines the choice of someone? Let's say the person is enlightened.Originally posted by Isis:Funny... then how u know what u say is right if u don't know what is ur fate in the first place? -
I am totally and absolutely lost within this thread