I think I have seen selflessness
-
But it's not called fated because one cannot know when one is going to attain buddhahood. Similarly we know we will die but we dont know when so we can only say for certain we will die, but we cannot say any more than that. It's not 'fate' in the sense that we know it will happen which exact moment etc.Originally posted by Cenarious:so it means every deluded sentient being is fated to become buddhas eventually. -
well maybe buddhas can.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:But it's not called fated because one cannot know when one is going to attain buddhahood. Similarly we know we will die but we dont know when so we can only say for certain we will die, but we cannot say any more than that. It's not 'fate' in the sense that we know it will happen which exact moment etc.
oh ya isnt it one of buddha's powers to be able to see karma of others? the 6th supernatural power of buddhas, while non buddhists have 5. -
1st line --> I am not in a position to comment about Buddha. But what I know is the Buddha only gives prophecy concerning someone's Buddhahood when one attains the 7th Bhumi stage of Bodhisattva, because at that time his time and date and conditions and even Buddha name for Buddhahood is more or less confirmed. Secondly, have you heard of the story of the monk who the venerable foresaw that he is going to die in 7 days, so he asked the monk to go back to meet his parents for the last time (he didnt tell him he is going to die though), and on his way he happened to save a whole colony of ants from being flooded, and for that he was able to return safely and lived on for another 10 years? Even our lifespan can be altered due to good karma/cultivating blessings (xiu1 fu2)Originally posted by Cenarious:well maybe buddhas can.
oh ya isnt it one of buddha's powers to be able to see karma of others? the 6th supernatural power of buddhas, while non buddhists have 5.
2nd line --> Yes. But haven't I said that choice is not determined by karma and there is always this possibility of present input? -
oh well maybe the venerable knew that there were ants running into trouble and the monk would save the ants if he walked that way. Or maybe the venerable wasn't a buddha.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:1st line --> I am not in a position to comment about Buddha. But what I know is the Buddha only gives prophecy concerning someone's Buddhahood when one attains the 7th Bhumi stage of Bodhisattva, because at that time his time and date and conditions and even Buddha name for Buddhahood is more or less confirmed. Secondly, have you heard of the story of the monk who the venerable foresaw that he is going to die in 7 days, so he asked the monk to go back to meet his parents for the last time (he didnt tell him he is going to die though), and on his way he happened to save a whole colony of ants from being flooded, and for that he was able to return safely and lived on for another 10 years? Even our lifespan can be altered due to good karma/cultivating blessings (xiu1 fu2)
2nd line --> Yes. But haven't I said that choice is not determined by karma and there is always this possibility of present input? -
...............Originally posted by Cenarious:oh well maybe the venerable knew that there were ants running into trouble and the monk would save the ants if he walked that way. Or maybe the venerable wasn't a buddha. -
Oh, it is fated that we mortal humans get to see stupidity every now and then.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:...............
-
ok so if you see it as the 10th dimension (time is only the 4th dimension), whereby everything possible and all parallel universes are all collapsed into one single point, what do you get? fate.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:But it's not called fated because one cannot know when one is going to attain buddhahood. Similarly we know we will die but we dont know when so we can only say for certain we will die, but we cannot say any more than that. It's not 'fate' in the sense that we know it will happen which exact moment etc. -
No, 10th dimension is infinite potentiality.Originally posted by Cenarious:ok so if you see it as the 10th dimension (time is only the 4th dimension), whereby everything possible and all parallel universes are all collapsed into one single point, what do you get? fate. -
from the site itself:Originally posted by An Eternal Now:No, 10th dimension is infinite potentiality.
"Now, as we enter the tenth dimension, we have to imagine all of the possible branches for all the possible timelines of all the possible universes and treat that as a single point in the tenth dimension. Whew! So far, so good. But this is where we hit a roadblock: if weÂ’re going to imagine the tenth dimension as continuing the cycle, and being a line, then weÂ’re going to have to imagine a different point that we can draw that line to. But thereÂ’s no place left to go! By the time we have imagined all possible timelines for all possible universes as being a single point in the tenth dimension, it appears that our journey is done.
In String theory, physicists tell us that Superstrings vibrating in the tenth dimension are what create the subatomic particles which make up our universe, and all of the other possible universes as well. In other words, all possibilities are contained within the tenth dimension, which would appear to be the concept we have just built for ourselves as we imagined the ten dimensions, built one upon another."
nothing is outside the 10th dimension, therefore it is the nature of existence. -
Don't so cock eye and read what they say first.
Originally posted by Cenarious:
I found this in another website:
from the site itself:
"Now, as we enter the tenth dimension, we have to imagine all of the possible branches for all the possible timelines of all the possible universes and treat that as a single point in the tenth dimension. Whew! So far, so good. But this is where we hit a roadblock: if weÂ’re going to imagine the tenth dimension as continuing the cycle, and being a line, then weÂ’re going to have to imagine a different point that we can draw that line to. But thereÂ’s no place left to go! By the time we have imagined all possible timelines for all possible universes as being a single point in the tenth dimension, it appears that our journey is done.
In String theory, physicists tell us that Superstrings vibrating in the tenth dimension are what create the subatomic particles which make up our universe, and all of the other possible universes as well. In other words, all possibilities are contained within the tenth dimension, which would appear to be the concept we have just built for ourselves as we imagined the ten dimensions, built one upon another."
nothing is outside the 10th dimension, therefore it is the nature of existence.
Although it has almost become a cliche these days to evoke the principles of quantum mechanics in a discussion of the Universal Self, let me remind you of the observer principle of quantum physics: if the outcome of an event has not been observed, it exists in a state of superposition, which is being in all possible states at once.
In other words, the Universal Spirit is a vast potentiality, that comes into existence, every time it is contemplated or observed. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Yes I have read the part that you underlined.
Don't so cock eye and read what they say first.
I found this in another website:
[b]Ff the outcome of an event has not been observed, it exists in a state of superposition, which is being in all possible states at once.
In other words, the Universal Spirit is a vast potentiality, that comes into existence, every time it is contemplated or observed.[/b]
"In other words, all possibilities are contained within the tenth dimension, which would appear to be the concept we have just built for ourselves as we imagined the ten dimensions, built one upon another."
All possibilities. How then do you make a possibility manifest? By observing and contemplating, and observing and contemplating come from conditions. Maybe you are still thinking that you inherently exist. -
That thought in its nature is conditioned arising, but the content of the thought is not real. So the world is not real in that sense.Originally posted by Cenarious:Yes I have read the part that you underlined.
"In other words, all possibilities are contained within the tenth dimension, which would appear to be the concept we have just built for ourselves as we imagined the ten dimensions, built one upon another."
All possibilities. How then do you make a possibility manifest? By observing and contemplating, and observing and contemplating come from conditions. Maybe you are still thinking that you inherently exist. -
Are you going towards emptiness too much like the poem pu ti ben wu shu?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:That thought in its nature is conditioned arising, but the content of the thought is not real. So the world is not real in that sense. -
Here's another website on Emptiness that talks about potentiality:
http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/emptiness.html
Regarding phenomena:An important class of phenomena in the subatomic world is defined by the various interactions between particles. In fact, there is no clear distinction between the notions of phenomena, particles, and interactions, although interactions can be described clearly in mathematical terms. For example, there are interactions between free electrons by means of photons that result in an observed repelling force. There are also interactions between the quarks of a nucleon by means of mesons, interactions between the neighbouring neutrons or protons, interactions between nucleus and electrons, and interactions between the atoms of molecules. The phenomena themselves -the nucleon, the nucleus, the atom, the molecule- are sufficiently described by these interactions, meaning by the respective equations, which implies that interactions and phenomena are interchangeable terms. Interestingly, the interrelations of quantum physics do not describe actual existence. Instead they predict the potential for existence. A manifest particle, such as an electron, cannot be described in terms of classical mechanics. It exists as a multitude of superposed "scenarios", of which one or another manifests only when it is observed, i.e. upon measurement. Therefore, matter does not inherently exist. It exists only as interrelations of "empty" phenomena whose properties are determined by observation. This is the fourth manifestation of emptiness at the subtle level of matter.
Regarding mathematics:In the ancient Indian context, the number zero did not originally refer to nothingness or nullity. The Sanskrit word for zero is shunya, which means "puffed up, hollow, empty." The zero stands for emptiness suggestive of potentiality. The discovery of the mathematical zero concurred with the emptiness of prajna-intuition in India around 200 BC. Both signify polar opposition between being and nonbeing. Zero is that which contains all possible polarised pairs such as (+1, -1), (+2, -2), etc. It is the collection of all mutually cancelling pairs of forward and backward movements. Put it another way, zero is fundamental to all existence. Because of it, everything is possible. Zero is the additive identity, the focal point of all numbers; without it, numbers cannot be created. India alone, among the great civilisations of antiquity, was able to fathom the depth of emptiness and willing to accept its consequences in mathematics.
Following the introduction of the Hindu-Arabic numerals into Western culture, zero became a number that was used in calculations like any other number. Consequently, it lost some part of its original meaning, namely the part that suggests potentiality. Today, most mathematicians do not associate the notion of emptiness with zero, but with the empty set, which is a construct of set theory. A set is a collection of objects or numbers. For example, the set { 1, 2, 3, 5, 8 } is a set of numbers containing five elements; it is therefore said to have the "cardinality" of 5. The empty set { } is a collection that contains nothing and has the cardinality 0. The mathematician John von Neumann (1923) invented a method, known as von Neumann hierarchy, which can be employed to generate the natural numbers from the empty set as follows: -
The content of the thought (i.e what you are thinking about) is not real, but the thought as conditioned arising, empty, is real (real means that is the nature of reality)Originally posted by Cenarious:Are you going towards emptiness too much like the poem pu ti ben wu shu?
The problem with unenlightened people is they think that the content of the thought is real (i.e they think that what they are thinking have inherent existence) so they seek and grasp on thoughts. -
What I mean is the world seen from the mind's perspective.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:So the world is not real in that sense.
The world seen as empty-luminosity is real. -
Oh and about the thing that we are fated to attain Buddhahood.
Maitreya Bodhisattva used to be able to attain Buddhahood faster than Shakyamuni Buddha. But because of Shakyamuni Buddha's sacrifice and his earnestness in cultivation he attained Buddhahood quicker. There is an interesting story about it but I cannot remember anymore.
So my point is although theoretically all of us have buddha potential but it all depends on our own cultivation. Therefore, it is not fated. -
But yet matter in this world still interact with other... Is that a matter? I believe it's not matter to you as you can't understand matter...Originally posted by Cenarious:Are you going towards emptiness too much like the poem pu ti ben wu shu? -
try making sense.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:But yet matter in this world still interact with other... Is that a matter? I believe it's not matter to you as you can't understand matter... -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
It was at Lama Yeshe's site. Here is an excerpt, as well as the link:
Maitreya Bodhisattva used to be able to attain Buddhahood faster than Shakyamuni Buddha. But because of Shakyamuni Buddha's sacrifice and his earnestness in cultivation he attained Buddhahood quicker. There is an interesting story about it but I cannot remember anymore.
QUOTE
Now, as I said before, Maitreya Buddha generated bodhicitta long before Guru Shakyamuni Buddha did, but Guru Shakyamuni Buddha got enlightened first. How did this happen? Because Guru Shakyamuni Buddha's bodhicitta, his great transcendant compassion, was much stronger than Maitreya Buddha's. The story of this goes back many, many lifetimes, when in a previous life they were brothers living in Nepal. One day, the two brothers came across a family of five tigers who were dying of starvation. They both felt compassion, of course, but Guru Shakyamuni Buddha's must have been much stronger, because later he came back to the tigers alone and offered them his body, sacrificing his life in order to save theirs. Later, after Guru Shakyamuni Buddha had attained enlightenment, because of the karmic connection made with the tigers when he was a bodhisattva, they were reborn human and became his first disciples. He taught them Dharma and they achieved realizations of the path.
While Maitreya Buddha and Guru Shakyamuni Buddha both saw the tigers and felt compassion, Maitreya Buddha did not make charity of his body as did Guru Shakyamuni Buddha. This shows that Shakyamuni's bodhicitta was much stronger. Thus, he was able to sacrifice himself for others that much more, and as a result, attained enlightenment first.
http://www.lamayeshe.com/lamazopa/vr/vr_5.shtml
/\ -
Another version of the tale.
quote:
The Story of the Bodhisattva and the Tigress
"On one occasion when the Bodhisatta was passing through a forest, accompanied by his disciple, he saw a tigress and her three cubs near death from starvation. Moved to compassion, he asked his disciple to secure some food for them. This was but a pretext to send him away, for the Bodhisatta thought:-
"Why should I search after meat from the body of another while the whole of my own body is available? Finding other meat is a matter of chance, and I may well lose the opportunity of doing my duty. This body being foul and a source of suffering, he is not wise who would not rejoice at its being spent for the benefit of another. There are but two things that make one disregard the grief of another -- attachment to one's own pleasure and the absence of the power of helping. But I cannot take my pleasure while another grieves, as long as I am able to help him. Why should I, therefore, be indifferent?
"By casting myself down this precipice, I sacrifice my miserable body which will feed the tigress, thus preventing her from killing the young ones and saving the young ones from dying by the teeth of their mother.
"Furthermore, by so doing I set an example to those whose longings are for the good of the world. I encourage the feeble; I gladden those who understand the meaning of charity; and I inspire the virtuous. And finally that opportunity I yearned for, when may I have the opportunity of benefiting others by offering them my own limbs, I shall obtain it now, and acquire before long the Sammà Sambuddhahood -- Supreme Enlightenment."
Thinking thus, he cast himself down the precipice sacrificing his life for the welfare of those helpless beings.
/\ -
There's another one other than the Tiger story
But similarly Shakyamuni Buddha did the sacrifice and thus could attain enlightenment faster.. at that time, Shakyamuni is only a disciple of Maitreya.
Master Shen Kai used to mention this story but I cannot rememeber the details anymore. -
It was meant to be nonsense for you to ponder....Originally posted by Cenarious:try making sense.
-
What's the difference between this story and suicide? AEN kindly edit the above posting...Originally posted by sinweiy:Another version of the tale.
quote:
The Story of the Bodhisattva and the Tigress
"On one occasion when the Bodhisatta was passing through a forest, accompanied by his disciple, he saw a tigress and her three cubs near death from starvation. Moved to compassion, he asked his disciple to secure some food for them. This was but a pretext to send him away, for the Bodhisatta thought:-
"Why should I search after meat from the body of another while the whole of my own body is available? Finding other meat is a matter of chance, and I may well lose the opportunity of doing my duty. This body being foul and a source of suffering, he is not wise who would not rejoice at its being spent for the benefit of another. There are but two things that make one disregard the grief of another -- attachment to one's own pleasure and the absence of the power of helping. But I cannot take my pleasure while another grieves, as long as I am able to help him. Why should I, therefore, be indifferent?
"By casting myself down this precipice, I sacrifice my miserable body which will feed the tigress, thus preventing her from killing the young ones and saving the young ones from dying by the teeth of their mother.
"Furthermore, by so doing I set an example to those whose longings are for the good of the world. I encourage the feeble; I gladden those who understand the meaning of charity; and I inspire the virtuous. And finally that opportunity I yearned for, when may I have the opportunity of benefiting others by offering them my own limbs, I shall obtain it now, and acquire before long the Sammà Sambuddhahood -- Supreme Enlightenment."
Thinking thus, he cast himself down the precipice sacrificing his life for the welfare of those helpless beings.
/\ -
Very obvious. That was sacrificing his life to save other people's life, whereas suicide is destruction of one's life without saving anyone elses' life.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:What's the difference between this story and suicide? AEN kindly edit the above posting...