is ultimate reality like numbers?
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different people see reality differently as decimal, binary and hexadecimal ect
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No. That is relative reality.Originally posted by Cenarious:different people see reality differently as decimal, binary and hexadecimal ect
Ultimate reality is emptiness. Numbers are also empty.
http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/emptiness.htmlEmptiness in mathematics.
In mathematics the notion of emptiness finds expression in the number zero, as well as in contemporary set theory. The concept of zero was discovered in India prior to the sixth century A.D. The "Arabic" number system we use today is neither Arabic nor Greek in origin. In fact, the digits 0123456789 go back to India where they were first created. The ancient Indian number system distinguished itself from other positional systems by virtue of allowing the use of zero as a legitimate number. Interestingly, the number zero did not exist in Greek mathematics, because the Greeks were essentially geometricians and had no use for the mathematical concept of a non-entity, neither did it exist in Egyptian mathematics. The Arabs, who encountered the Indian number system during their early conquests in India, found it superior to their own traditional system which used letters, and thus adapted it to develop Islamic mathematics. The Arabic word for zero is "sifr", meaning "empty." In the 12th century, the Italian mathematician Leonardo Pisano Fibonacci studied Arabian algebra and introduced the Hindu-Arabic numerals to Europe. The word "sifr" thus became "zephirum" in Latin and "zero" in English.
In the ancient Indian context, the number zero did not originally refer to nothingness or nullity. The Sanskrit word for zero is shunya, which means "puffed up, hollow, empty." The zero stands for emptiness suggestive of potentiality. The discovery of the mathematical zero concurred with the emptiness of prajna-intuition in India around 200 BC. Both signify polar opposition between being and nonbeing. Zero is that which contains all possible polarised pairs such as (+1, -1), (+2, -2), etc. It is the collection of all mutually cancelling pairs of forward and backward movements. Put it another way, zero is fundamental to all existence. Because of it, everything is possible. Zero is the additive identity, the focal point of all numbers; without it, numbers cannot be created. India alone, among the great civilisations of antiquity, was able to fathom the depth of emptiness and willing to accept its consequences in mathematics.
Following the introduction of the Hindu-Arabic numerals into Western culture, zero became a number that was used in calculations like any other number. Consequently, it lost some part of its original meaning, namely the part that suggests potentiality. Today, most mathematicians do not associate the notion of emptiness with zero, but with the empty set, which is a construct of set theory. A set is a collection of objects or numbers.
For example, the set { 1, 2, 3, 5, 8 } is a set of numbers containing five elements; it is therefore said to have the "cardinality" of 5. The empty set { } is a collection that contains nothing and has the cardinality 0. The mathematician John von Neumann (1923) invented a method, known as von Neumann hierarchy, which can be employed to generate the natural numbers from the empty set as follows:
Step 0: { } (empty set)
Step 1: { { } } (set containing the empty set)
Step 2: { { }, { { } } } (set containing previous two sets)
Step 3: { { }, { { } } , { { }, { { } } } } (set containing previous three sets)
Step 4: { { }, { { } } , { { }, { { } } }, { { }, { { } } , { { }, { { } } } } } (etc.)
This sequence is obtained by iterating a functor that creates a new set from the union of the preceding two sets, thus generating sets with the cardinalities 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, ad infinitum. In less mathematical terms, the principle can be described as follows: Beginning with emptiness (step 0), we observe emptiness. Through the act of observing we create an entity containing emptiness (step 1). Now we perceive emptiness, as well as an entity. From the combination of the former two we create another entity by observation, which is different from the first entity (step 2). This process is repeated again and again. Interestingly, if we define suitable operations on the obtained sets based on union and intersection, the cardinalities of the resulting sets behave just like natural numbers being added and subtracted. The sequence is therefore isomorphic to the natural numbers - a stunningly beautiful example of something from nothing. -
ya i know, the decimals binary are relative but the reality is every one of them and neither of them at the same time
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so whats the use of knowing this emptiness?????????
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Knowing is useless... or at most partially useful, so as not to fall into wrong views. Realising intuitively is more important.Originally posted by Cenarious:so whats the use of knowing this emptiness????????? -
realising intuitively and then what??????Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Knowing is useless... or at most partially useful, so as not to fall into wrong views. Realising intuitively is more important. -
One number is all number, all number is one number.Originally posted by Cenarious:ya i know, the decimals binary are relative but the reality is every one of them and neither of them at the same time -
I thought you should know since you read Lankavatara Sutra already? There are chapters devoted just to explaining that.Originally posted by Cenarious:realising intuitively and then what?????? -
which chapterOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:I thought you should know since you read Lankavatara Sutra already? There are chapters devoted just to explaining that. -
won't you fail your maths in school if you think like that? it's just that reality is not just one way of expression and thinking it is just one way is wrong and ultimate reality cannot be thought of because it is emptyOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:One number is all number, all number is one number. -
As I read through, I found it's everywhere in the sutra.Originally posted by Cenarious:which chapter
This is just a random selection:The Nishyanda-Buddha, the "Out-flowing-Buddha," though Transcendental Intelligence, reveals the true meaning and significance of appearances, discrimination, attachment; and of the power of habit-energy which is accumulated by them and conditions them; and of the un-born-ness, the emptiness, the ego-less-ness of all things. Because of Transcendental Intelligence and the purification of the evil out-flowings of life, all dualistic views of existence and non existence are transcended and by self realization of Noble Wisdom the true image-less-ness of Reality is made manifest.
In other words, no realisation of emptiness, no enlightenment, no Buddhahood. -
alright so i am enlightened now but where are my supernatural powers??Originally posted by An Eternal Now:In other words, no realisation of emptiness, no enlightenment, no Buddhahood. -
There is only Totality, and one number is Totality, Totality is the one number, it's not different. Plenty of numbers are also Totality... that's why we can pass our maths. Totality appears to be plenty and seperate. But the reality of the appearance is Totality.Originally posted by Cenarious:won't you fail your maths in school if you think like that? it's just that reality is not just one way of expression and thinking it is just one way is wrong and ultimate reality cannot be thought of because it is empty -
ya thats what i meant, thats why you can change from decimal to binaryOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:There is only Totality, and one number is Totality, Totality is the one number, it's not different. Plenty of numbers are also Totality... that's why we can pass our maths. Totality appears to be plenty and seperate. But the reality of the appearance is Totality. -
I told you understanding is not enough. Understanding is only perception, and any perception, even perception of Emptiness if attached to, is also a hindrance. Emptiness only 'points'... like the Lankavatara sutra says, you have to go beyond the words, the pointers.Originally posted by Cenarious:alright so i am enlightened now but where are my supernatural powers??
Lankavatara Sutra stated very clearly that Transcendental Intelligence is not attained through conceptual mind, it is through Intuitive mind, our 'link' to seeing Noble Wisdom. And of course it requires dharma practise and clearance of our conceptual inclinations, to go beyond the symbolic realm before we can know the transcendental. Mindfulness is very important. -
i think then u shoudnt call it number anymoreOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:One number is all number, all number is one number. -
Why not? Call it whatever you like as long as you don't think that the name is ultimately real.Originally posted by Cenarious:i think then u shoudnt call it number anymore -
Explain the difference between intuition and psychosis...
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casino king advised me not to be too impatient about it. he kicks ass.
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Wow he's backOriginally posted by Cenarious:casino king advised me not to be too impatient about it. he kicks ass.
oh i receive an pm from him just a few days ago too.. Ya of course you need lots of patience on the bodhisattva path. Patience is one of the 10 virtues (paramita) that needs to be perfected before buddhahood. 'transcendental endurance' is also important (was that from lankavatara sutra?) -
You want to use them to pwn ppl?Originally posted by Cenarious:alright so i am enlightened now but where are my supernatural powers??
I like your signature -
WHO is it that shall get enlightened? Without even knowing the truth of this, and instead harbouring thoughts such as 'i want to pwn' people, that one is guaranteed to remain in samsara, and is certainly day dreaming.Originally posted by maggot:You want to use them to pwn ppl?
I like your signature
All mental and conceptual answers are not it. Whenever this thought of 'I' arise, question it and watch where the thought returns. -
yup.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:WHO is it that shall get enlightened? Without even knowing the truth of this, and instead harbouring thoughts such as 'i want to pwn' people, that one is guaranteed to remain in samsara, and is certainly day dreaming.
All mental and conceptual answers are not it. Whenever this thought of 'I' arise, question it and watch where the thought returns. -
There is no need for waiting too, if the notion of 'i will attain this some time later' is seen to be false. The whole notion of self is false. Who is thinking that? No need to answer this.Originally posted by Cenarious:yup. -
IMO.Originally posted by Cenarious:alright so i am enlightened now but where are my supernatural powers??
In a deep sense, there is nothing to attain. There is just 'give up'. Not 'giving up'(which is a wish)... but a deep 'give-up'... which drops all conceptualisation, striving and reasoning.
Someone ask what is the difference between intuition and psychosis. In a sense, all are knowingness..However, intuition has a relationship to truth. That is, it reflects a truth. And very often, what is intuited turns out to be true when it is verified.
Our fundamental false assumption is that there is a 'self' or person that knows. However, knowingness doesn't need a 'self' to know at all. Strong identification to a 'self' in fact blocks intuition. This is because the mind tends to be focussed on the 'sense of self' and thus miss the intuitive knowingness.
I dunno... perhaps... it could be that the the total collapse of the barrier of 'self-identification' is what that allows for omniscience.... a knowing beyond the self. Perhaps with the 'sense of self' out of the way, consciousness can attune with more freedom beyond the usual mode of thinking.
just my opinion.