so in conclusion buddhism can be summarised as
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How to make it clearer?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Simi first hand experience... Can you make it clearer? Is it omnipresence?
As have been said before, this is something that cannot be understood at a mental, egoic and intellectual level. Your type of inquiry will never work. -
Like i said, any further descriptions is like trying to describe colours to a blind. He can never know until he sees it for himself.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Simi first hand experience... Can you make it clearer? Is it omnipresence? -
if i don't understand the game, i would be an ignorant animal right?
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last night as i was chatting with my hubby, he gave a riddle. he said it's a very chim one u know and grins away.
the riddle is in chinese.
na2 ji1 dan4 diu1 shi2 tou2
then he asked me what is it and i said i don't know because he said it was chim and i'm not chim and can only visualise picking up the egg and throw at the stone.
then he said just pick up the egg, throw the stone, no need to think so much or complicated always like to "disturb" and tease me... -
It depends ignorant to what. Ignorant to the game rules... yes. For example, some people can be very competent in certain fields, but may not necessarily be aware of the going-ons within their mind.Originally posted by Cenarious:if i don't understand the game, i would be an ignorant animal right? -
My type of inquiry is based on scientific facts hence it will work or your hypothesis is false.Originally posted by longchen:How to make it clearer?
As have been said before, this is something that cannot be understood at a mental, egoic and intellectual level. Your type of inquiry will never work. -
Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:My type of inquiry is based on scientific facts hence it will work or your hypothesis is false.
Nothing wrong with being scientific... it's your choice.
But you will never understand beyond a linear, sequential and mechanistic mode of cognition.
You will never understand that omni-presence was the original state... where everything is simultaneous. And that linear-based cognition was triggered by some occurences 'in the distance past'. And you will also never understand timelessness. -
how do i get this first hand experience then
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One way is to learn to meditate... if you have not already done so.Originally posted by Cenarious:how do i get this first hand experience then
Meditate... that time... just let go... .
If it is helps... lightly watch the breathe...
Don't follow the thoughts... if they arises, be aware and let go.
good luck. -
What kind of scientific facts? Since our modern science is like stone age in terms of understanding the nature of our consciousness, what use are they? Maybe better than that now that we have advancements in quantum physics but nevertheless much more is to be desired. If you insist on using scientific facts to study consciousness, you must use the right mode. Don't use art knowledge on things that got to do with maths or your biology knowledge on things that got to do with physics. Sad to say, classical physics is completely irrelevant when dealing on topics like consciousness.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:My type of inquiry is based on scientific facts hence it will work or your hypothesis is false.
If you want to find out more, meditate, practice the dharma and see for yourself. That is the scientific method that countless, starting from buddha had tried and succeeded. So do your homework, do the experiment yourself and see it for yourself. Otherwise its like a blind asking more and more about what are colours but will never see them or know for himself that colours really exist. -
does it help if i can see no meaning in everything?Originally posted by longchen:One way is to learn to meditate... if you have not already done so.
Meditate... that time... just let go... .
If it is helps... lightly watch the breathe...
Don't follow the thoughts... if they arises, be aware and let go.
good luck. -
Emm what do you mean by 'no meaning' in everythings.. can explain more?Originally posted by Cenarious:does it help if i can see no meaning in everything?
why could u feel there way ?
perhaps u could like to read my next posting about the applying the wisdom of middle-way and my answer to your question. -
Sunyata in the Tathagatagarbha Sutras
The class of Buddhist scriptures known as the Tathagatagarbha sutras presents a seemingly variant understanding of Emptiness, according to which the Buddha and Nirvana, unlike compounded, conditioned phenomena, are not empty of intrinsic existence, but merely empty of the impermanent, the painful and the Self-less. In the "Srimala Sutra" the Buddha is seen as empty of all defilement and ignorance, not of intrinsic Reality. The "Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra" supports such a vision and views Ultimate Emptiness as the Buddhic cognition ( "jnana" ) which perceives both Emptiness and non-Emptiness, wherein "the Empty is the totality of Samsara and the non-Empty is Great Nirvana". [u]The Buddha in the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra further indicates that to view absolutely everything as empty is an unbalanced approach and constitutes a deviation from the middle path of Buddhism: "[u]The wise perceive Emptiness and non-Emptiness, the Eternal and the Impermanent, Suffering and Bliss, the Self and the non-Self. ... To perceive the Emptiness of everything and not to perceive non-Emptiness is not termed the Middle Way; to perceive the non-Self of everything and not to perceive the Self is not termed the Middle Way." [/u][/u]Moreover, this particular sutra contains a passage in which the Buddha castigates those who view the Tathagatagarbha (which is the indwelling, immortal Buddha-element) in each being as empty, declaring of them that they are effectively committing a form of painful spiritual suicide through their wrongheaded stance: "By having cultivated non-Self in connection with the Tathagatagarbha and having continually cultivated Emptiness, suffering will not be eradicated but one will become like a moth in the flame of a lamp." (Tibetan version of the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra). The attainment of nirvanic Liberation ("moksha"), by contrast, is said to open up a realm of "utter bliss, joy, permanence, stability, [and] eternity" (ibid), in which the Buddha is "fully peaceful" (Dharmakshema "Southern" version). Perhaps the clearest statement of Tathagatagarbha Buddhism's understanding of Emptiness is found in the Angulimaliya Sutra, where we read the following clarifying explanation:
" ... by cultivating extreme emptiness and continually considering things to be empty, one will behold the utter destruction of all phenomena. Though Liberation is not empty, one will see and think it to be empty. Thus, for example, having thought hail-stones to be jewels, one comes to think that real gems are empty [úûnya]. Likewise, you too think of phenomena which are not empty [aúûnya] to be empty [úûnya], for viewing phenomena as empty, you dissolve into emptiness (úûnya) even those phenomena which are not empty. Some phenomena are empty [of existence] and some phenomena are not empty [of existence]. Just like the hail-stones, the billions of kleshas [mental and moral afflictions] are empty [of existence], like the hail-stones, those phenomena appertaining to ignorance are empty [of existence] and swiftly fade away. Like the real beryl gems, the Buddha is eternal. Liberation is like the real beryl gems."
Thus in the distinctive Tathagatagarbha sutras a balance is drawn between the empty, impermanent and coreless realm of samsara and the lasting, liberating Reality of the Buddha and Nirvana.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emptiness_%28Buddhism%29 -
Hi Cenarious,Originally posted by Cenarious:does it help if i can see no meaning in everything?
It is better to practice the meditation first.
Actually conceptually understanding these concepts is not helpful at all. I am not saying these out of arrogance... but this has been my experience.
In fact, i have wasted many years reading too much and getting mislead by all kinds of informations. It is much more helpful to practice. From my experience, most of all spiritual informations available are misleading...
Let the direct expereinces and your intuition be your guide. Even the first transcendental glimpses are not totally clear. Even until now... I am far from completing my path. ... It is with hope that it be completed in this lifetime.
The spiritual path may be the most demanding and difficult project that one can ever undertake.
Never underestimate the extreme subtleness... -
One more thing to add.Originally posted by longchen:Hi Cenarious,
It is better to practice the meditation first.
Actually conceptually understanding these concepts is not helpful at all. I am not saying these out of arrogance... but this has been my experience.
In fact, i have wasted many years reading too much and getting mislead by all kinds of informations. It is much more helpful to practice. From my experience, most of all spiritual informations available are misleading...
Let the direct expereinces and your intuition be your guide. Even the first transcendental glimpses are not totally clear. Even until now... I am far from completing my path. ... It is with hope that it be completed in this lifetime.
The spiritual path may be the most demanding and difficult project that one can ever undertake.
Never underestimate the extreme subtleness...
The difficulty is that most of us are being 'too forceful'.... applying too much attachments and getting 'glued' to ideas. This is the extreme.
The subtleness is in allowing innate intuitiveness and knowingness to dislodge the attachments. -
Thnks alot...ur advice is usefulOriginally posted by longchen:One more thing to add.
The difficulty is that most of us are being 'too forceful'.... applying too much attachments and getting 'glued' to ideas. This is the extreme.
The subtleness is in allowing innate intuitiveness and knowingness to dislodge the attachments.
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Agreed... Truly practicing is most important and nothing can ever substitute that. It would be more helpful to practice than dream about things like jumping to the 8th bhumi stageOriginally posted by longchen:Hi Cenarious,
It is better to practice the meditation first.
Actually conceptually understanding these concepts is not helpful at all. I am not saying these out of arrogance... but this has been my experience.
In fact, i have wasted many years reading too much and getting mislead by all kinds of informations. It is much more helpful to practice. From my experience, most of all spiritual informations available are misleading...
Let the direct expereinces and your intuition be your guide. Even the first transcendental glimpses are not totally clear. Even until now... I am far from completing my path. ... It is with hope that it be completed in this lifetime.
The spiritual path may be the most demanding and difficult project that one can ever undertake.
Never underestimate the extreme subtleness... -
How can you practice if you don't believe in that philosophy?
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how do i know if i am enlightened
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You don't know if you are enlightened.Originally posted by Cenarious:how do i know if i am enlightened -
Yes Longchen,Originally posted by longchen:Dunno about the quantum physics part
But if you can get to the point of an initial total bare mind...that is... no sensory perception and no thoughts...you will experience that the sense of being at a location (here-ness) is no more....
You will experience the amazing experience of infinity and all pervading-ness. that is being everywhere at the same time. And when you come back to your senses... you will say 'wow!'. The truth is so different from the everyday consciousness....
No point thinking too much.... it doesn't help. Get a first hand experience.
Transcendental glimpses are misled by the cognitive faculty of our mind. That mode of cognition is dualistic. All is Mind but this mind is not to be taken as ‘Self’. “I Am”, Eternal Witness, are all products of our cognition and is the root cause that prevents true seeing.
The ‘who’, ‘where’ and ‘when’, the ‘I’, ‘here’ and ‘now’ must ultimately give way to the experience of total transparency. Do not fall back to a source, just the manifestation is sufficient. This will become so clear that total transparency is experienced. When total transparency is stabilized, transcendental body is experienced and dharmakaya is seen everywhere. This is the samadhi bliss of Bodhisattva. This is the fruition of practice.
Experience all appearance with total vitality, vividness and clarity. They are really our Pristine Awareness, every moment and everywhere in all its manifolds and diversities. When causes and conditions is, manifestation is, when manifestation is, Awareness is. All is the one reality. -
Great advice! There is no short cut in spiritual practice.Originally posted by longchen:Hi Cenarious,
It is better to practice the meditation first.
Actually conceptually understanding these concepts is not helpful at all. I am not saying these out of arrogance... but this has been my experience.
In fact, i have wasted many years reading too much and getting mislead by all kinds of informations. It is much more helpful to practice. From my experience, most of all spiritual informations available are misleading...
Let the direct expereinces and your intuition be your guide. Even the first transcendental glimpses are not totally clear. Even until now... I am far from completing my path. ... It is with hope that it be completed in this lifetime.
The spiritual path may be the most demanding and difficult project that one can ever undertake.
Never underestimate the extreme subtleness...
May this life be your last life. -
Of course, you will know when you become enlightened when if you still have doubts on whether you are enlightened, you are not. No one can doubt their enlightenment, therefore the first stage - a streamenterer - has gone beyond all skeptical doubts.Originally posted by Cenarious:how do i know if i am enlightened -
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Therefore confidence in the three treasures to lead you to enlightenment is still important for a beginner. Just like we trust our scientific method otherwise we wouldnt do the experiments. Therefore we dont need to believe in the results of the experiment, we just need to have confidence in the triple gem. That is the basis of further attainments and is necessary. Even an arhant, in fact the one with greatest wisdom next to buddha, sariputra, said that he didnt believe what buddha just said because he has yet to see it himself. Buddha praised his attitude. Of course at a higher level, confidence comes from fruition of our practice. The more fruition we have... The more we know that the words of buddha are true.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:How can you practice if you don't believe in that philosophy?
Nevertheless if you cannot believe in certain things...which is ok and normal, you can also practice on the basis that buddhist practice leads to bliss, clarity, freedom and liberation from dukkha. If you dont believe this is true, i can show you this news article "buddhists are the happiest". This is not some kind of happiness that is attained in the mundane world. If that is so it would not be lasting. Furthermore, those people live in poor places like india or nepal. Regarding metaphysical things, you will realise them for yourself through direct experience.. They are beyond what words can tell. (like colours to a blind man)