so in conclusion buddhism can be summarised as
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Am i right to say that to experience total presence is to experience total transparency/dharmakaya?Originally posted by Thusness:Yes Longchen,
Transcendental glimpses are misled by the cognitive faculty of our mind. That mode of cognition is dualistic. All is Mind but this mind is not to be taken as �Self�. �I Am�, Eternal Witness, are all products of our cognition and is the root cause that prevents true seeing.
The �who�, �where� and �when�, the �I�, �here� and �now� must ultimately give way to the experience of total transparency. Do not fall back to a source, just the manifestation is sufficient. This will become so clear that total transparency is experienced. When total transparency is stabilized, transcendental body is experienced and dharmakaya is seen everywhere. This is the samadhi bliss of Bodhisattva. This is the fruition of practice.
Experience all appearance with total vitality, vividness and clarity. They are really our Pristine Awareness, every moment and everywhere in all its manifolds and diversities. When causes and conditions is, manifestation is, when manifestation is, Awareness is. All is the one reality.
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this means that i can insist that i am enlightened but am not really enlightened isnt it?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Of course, you will know when you become enlightened when if you still have doubts on whether you are enlightened, you are not. No one can doubt their enlightenment, therefore the first stage - a streamenterer - has gone beyond all skeptical doubts. -
Originally posted by Isis:
therefore brahman is real and not empty, and if you think this statement is wrong its only because you yourself placed the restrictive qualities on brahman in your mind, right?
[b]Sunyata in the Tathagatagarbha Sutras
The class of Buddhist scriptures known as the Tathagatagarbha sutras presents a seemingly variant understanding of Emptiness, according to which the Buddha and Nirvana, unlike compounded, conditioned phenomena, are not empty of intrinsic existence, but merely empty of the impermanent, the painful and the Self-less. In the "Srimala Sutra" the Buddha is seen as empty of all defilement and ignorance, not of intrinsic Reality. The "Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra" supports such a vision and views Ultimate Emptiness as the Buddhic cognition ( "jnana" ) which perceives both Emptiness and non-Emptiness, wherein "the Empty is the totality of Samsara and the non-Empty is Great Nirvana". [u]The Buddha in the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra further indicates that to view absolutely everything as empty is an unbalanced approach and constitutes a deviation from the middle path of Buddhism: "[u]The wise perceive Emptiness and non-Emptiness, the Eternal and the Impermanent, Suffering and Bliss, the Self and the non-Self. ... To perceive the Emptiness of everything and not to perceive non-Emptiness is not termed the Middle Way; to perceive the non-Self of everything and not to perceive the Self is not termed the Middle Way." [/u][/u]Moreover, this particular sutra contains a passage in which the Buddha castigates those who view the Tathagatagarbha (which is the indwelling, immortal Buddha-element) in each being as empty, declaring of them that they are effectively committing a form of painful spiritual suicide through their wrongheaded stance: "By having cultivated non-Self in connection with the Tathagatagarbha and having continually cultivated Emptiness, suffering will not be eradicated but one will become like a moth in the flame of a lamp." (Tibetan version of the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra). The attainment of nirvanic Liberation ("moksha"), by contrast, is said to open up a realm of "utter bliss, joy, permanence, stability, [and] eternity" (ibid), in which the Buddha is "fully peaceful" (Dharmakshema "Southern" version). Perhaps the clearest statement of Tathagatagarbha Buddhism's understanding of Emptiness is found in the Angulimaliya Sutra, where we read the following clarifying explanation:
" ... by cultivating extreme emptiness and continually considering things to be empty, one will behold the utter destruction of all phenomena. Though Liberation is not empty, one will see and think it to be empty. Thus, for example, having thought hail-stones to be jewels, one comes to think that real gems are empty [úûnya]. Likewise, you too think of phenomena which are not empty [aúûnya] to be empty [úûnya], for viewing phenomena as empty, you dissolve into emptiness (úûnya) even those phenomena which are not empty. Some phenomena are empty [of existence] and some phenomena are not empty [of existence]. Just like the hail-stones, the billions of kleshas [mental and moral afflictions] are empty [of existence], like the hail-stones, those phenomena appertaining to ignorance are empty [of existence] and swiftly fade away. Like the real beryl gems, the Buddha is eternal. Liberation is like the real beryl gems."
Thus in the distinctive Tathagatagarbha sutras a balance is drawn between the empty, impermanent and coreless realm of samsara and the lasting, liberating Reality of the Buddha and Nirvana.
From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emptiness_%28Buddhism%29
[/b] -
it's like my idea of God has always been brahman but when i first came into #buddhism@galaxynet AEN moulded my idea of God to become brahma so when Thusness tried to teach me about brahman 3 years ago I rejected it all the wayOriginally posted by Cenarious:therefore brahman is real and not empty, and if you think this statement is wrong its only because you yourself placed the restrictive qualities on brahman in your mind, right? -
I think better let thusness reply you on thisOriginally posted by Cenarious:it's like my idea of God has always been brahman but when i first came into #buddhism@galaxynet AEN moulded my idea of God to become brahma so when Thusness tried to teach me about brahman 3 years ago I rejected it all the way -
Crazy people can insist they are enlightened. They can also insist they are god or lin lao peh. But of course they arent. But still it is true when you are enlightened, you will not have doubt about it.Originally posted by Cenarious:this means that i can insist that i am enlightened but am not really enlightened isnt it? -
what do we want out of enlightenment? what is enlightenment?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Crazy people can insist they are enlightened. They can also insist they are god or lin lao peh. But of course they arent. But still it is true when you are enlightened, you will not have doubt about it. -
Hi Thusness,Originally posted by Thusness:Yes Longchen,
Transcendental glimpses are misled by the cognitive faculty of our mind. That mode of cognition is dualistic. All is Mind but this mind is not to be taken as ‘Self’. “I Am”, Eternal Witness, are all products of our cognition and is the root cause that prevents true seeing.
The ‘who’, ‘where’ and ‘when’, the ‘I’, ‘here’ and ‘now’ must ultimately give way to the experience of total transparency. Do not fall back to a source, just the manifestation is sufficient. This will become so clear that total transparency is experienced. When total transparency is stabilized, transcendental body is experienced and dharmakaya is seen everywhere. This is the samadhi bliss of Bodhisattva. This is the fruition of practice.
Experience all appearance with total vitality, vividness and clarity. They are really our Pristine Awareness, every moment and everywhere in all its manifolds and diversities. When causes and conditions is, manifestation is, when manifestation is, Awareness is. All is the one reality.
May i ask what is a Transcendental glimpses ? can give an example. -
1) our own liberation 2) to save other sentient beings.Originally posted by Cenarious:what do we want out of enlightenment? what is enlightenment?
Enlightenment means realising our true nature. That is the very first thing and of course must continue to practice until buddhahood. -
liberate from what? i think im just asking for more problems than there are by doing buddhism. so if im still gonna come back for rebirth after enlightenment to help others why not just stay the way i currently am, it doesnt matter what happens anyway since i will still be reborn infinite times.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:1) our own liberation 2) to save other sentient beings.
Enlightenment means realising our true nature. That is the very first thing and of course must continue to practice until buddhahood. -
HopefullyOriginally posted by Cenarious:it doesnt matter what happens anyway since i will still be reborn infinite times.
Carelessly
Accidentally
Intentionally
REBORN as a Lion..fish...insect..bird..to help animals to get out of animal realm
DisasterSsss -
doesnt matter does it, nothing is lost or gained.Originally posted by Quest*:Hopefully
Carelessly
Accidentally
Intentionally
REBORN as a Lion..fish...insect..bird..to help animals to get out of animal realm DisasterSsss -
For enlightenment one only,of course doesnt matter,nothing is lost or gainedOriginally posted by Cenarious:doesnt matter does it, nothing is lost or gained.
as realization of non-self,impermanent,craving-sufferings.
So...conclusion is reborn a lion also doesnt matter -
i dont like people who dont know decent grammar.Originally posted by Quest*:For enlightenment one only,of course doesnt matter,nothing is lost or gained
as realization of non-self,impermanent,craving-sufferings.
So...conclusion is reborn a lion also doesnt matter -
Originally posted by Cenarious:i dont like people who dont know decent grammar.
I dont like loser -
The question of liberation does not exist from a perspective, but since we are not enlightened, we must practice to be liberated from all sufferings and sentient thoughts. Samsara is full of sufferings, even if you live in heaven, or an ok life on earth, nothing is lasting and satisfactory. Also, nirvana is the highest bliss so everyone should seek nirvana.Originally posted by Cenarious:liberate from what? i think im just asking for more problems than there are by doing buddhism. so if im still gonna come back for rebirth after enlightenment to help others why not just stay the way i currently am, it doesnt matter what happens anyway since i will still be reborn infinite times.
Secondly, you can only help people be liberated only if you are first liberated and enlightened yourself. -
Hi Thusness,Originally posted by Thusness:Yes Longchen,
Transcendental glimpses are misled by the cognitive faculty of our mind. That mode of cognition is dualistic. All is Mind but this mind is not to be taken as ‘Self’. “I Am”, Eternal Witness, are all products of our cognition and is the root cause that prevents true seeing.
The ‘who’, ‘where’ and ‘when’, the ‘I’, ‘here’ and ‘now’ must ultimately give way to the experience of total transparency. Do not fall back to a source, just the manifestation is sufficient. This will become so clear that total transparency is experienced. When total transparency is stabilized, transcendental body is experienced and dharmakaya is seen everywhere. This is the samadhi bliss of Bodhisattva. This is the fruition of practice.
Experience all appearance with total vitality, vividness and clarity. They are really our Pristine Awareness, every moment and everywhere in all its manifolds and diversities. When causes and conditions is, manifestation is, when manifestation is, Awareness is. All is the one reality.
Thanks again
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Anyway like longchen said, concepts arent really useful. It will be better you drop them whether they are correct or wrong.. Of course wrong views should be corrected but any mental perceptions when clung to will hinder direct experience. To experience/see yourself is more important. But at the same time do not have any expectations or seek any exclusive experience. Any particular states is not infinity, because it is exclusive, temporary. Our true nature is inclusive. Meaning it is not seperate from This... Words forming on your screen or aeroplanes flying in the sky. Mindfulness is important.Originally posted by Cenarious:it's like my idea of God has always been brahman but when i first came into #buddhism@galaxynet AEN moulded my idea of God to become brahma so when Thusness tried to teach me about brahman 3 years ago I rejected it all the way -
then i already am enlightened arent i.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Anyway like longchen said, concepts arent really useful. It will be better you drop them whether they are correct or wrong.. Of course wrong views should be corrected but any mental perceptions when clung to will hinder direct experience. To experience/see yourself is more important. But at the same time do not have any expectations or seek any exclusive experience. Any particular states is not infinity, because it is exclusive, temporary. Our true nature is inclusive. Meaning it is not seperate from This... Words forming on your screen or aeroplanes flying in the sky. Mindfulness is important. -
They are moments of insights or experiences into something pure, real and divine. Telling us that we are more than a body.Originally posted by Isis:Hi Thusness,
May i ask what is a Transcendental glimpses ? can give an example. -
No...not the dharmakaya. Just brought out total transparency because it is a distinct phase and experience along the journey of experiencing no-self. It is just a pointer that one should have this experience and this experience must be stabilized.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Am i right to say that to experience total presence is to experience total transparency/dharmakaya?
Total transparency is NOT about seeing awareness as an invisible, formless, pure, divine and real or experiencing oneself as total life. This can result in wrongly identifying oneself as the Eternal Witness, the Atman.
Total transparency is the true experience of anatta. That apart from the phenomena arising and ceasing, there is no 'self' or 'Self' to be found anywhere. That 'I' and 'Self' completely dissapear. It is not something theoritical or conceptual. It is the truth that has been distorted by dualistic perception. It is a very distinct phase of transiting from dualistic experience of reality into non-dual. In terms of Presence, yes. When the 'self' or 'Self' is gone, deep Presence is felt everywhere. -
Hi Thusness,Originally posted by Thusness:They are moments of insights or experiences into something pure, real and divine. Telling us that we are more than a body.
mm what form of practise and cultivation ( sufferings =P ) did you undergo to experience this? hehe
I could say it takes one to walk the path to truly understand what you had said..
and strangely speaking, i couldn't understand what you had said initally but the more i read and re-read over a few times.. it feels familar.. -
Dear Cenarious,Originally posted by Cenarious:then i already am enlightened arent i.
if you are not sure what is enlightenment in buddhist terms.. how can you be sure that you are already enlightened ? -
Of course not. But that doesnt mean your buddha nature is already perfect, complete. But you havent realised it.Originally posted by Cenarious:then i already am enlightened arent i. -
I see.. Thanks againOriginally posted by Thusness:No...not the dharmakaya. Just brought out total transparency because it is a distinct phase and experience along the journey of experiencing no-self. It is just a pointer that one should have this experience and this experience must be stabilized.
Total transparency is NOT about seeing awareness as an invisible, formless, pure, divine and real or experiencing oneself as total life. This can result in wrongly identifying oneself as the Eternal Witness, the Atman.
Total transparency is the true experience of anatta. That apart from the phenomena arising and ceasing, there is no 'self' or 'Self' to be found anywhere. That 'I' and 'Self' completely dissapear. It is not something theoritical or conceptual. It is the truth that has been distorted by dualistic perception. It is a very distinct phase of transiting from dualistic experience of reality into non-dual. In terms of Presence, yes. When the 'self' or 'Self' is gone, deep Presence is felt everywhere. then what about dharmakaya? You mean its a different thing?