How to overcome pain?
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since we have "How to overcome thyself? " and
"How to overcome lust? "...now...here's another quite similar question :-
"How to overcome pain? "
state your answers below.
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Physical or mental pain?
Cause there "maybe" are different approaches to it.
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bu xiang jiu bu tong le.
dun think then dun feel pain le -
Originally posted by surfer188:
can state both if want.
Physical or mental pain?
Cause there "maybe" are different approaches to it. [/b]
maybe more on Physical pain.
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Physical Pain -- I think a doctor can help. If a doctor cannot help, highly possible Mental & Physical related pain. Much more complicated.Originally posted by sinweiy:can state both if want.
maybe more on Physical pain.
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Mental Pain -- I think highly depends on the root or source or cause. Face it & understand it will be the basic guide to overcome. Thru understanding that is without "Emotions" then grow solutions. If at time no solutions, Redrawing away or waiting or avoiding (Lesser Impact) is also an temperory solutions. (Have learn this from Yi Ching)
Hope this helps.
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Pain is different from suffering... but when the mind grasps on it... suffering comes. Pain can only be get rid off by physical means - healing, medicine, or anaesthetic, etc. Suffering due to pain should be liberated through dharma practise.Originally posted by sinweiy:can state both if want.
maybe more on Physical pain.
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Only a person with certain of cultivation can withstand very extreme physical pain I guess... only when one completely fuse into the pure sensation of the pain and no one 'feeling' the pain, just the pure sensation as it is.. it is impermanent, ever changing, it is not self, there is no self experiencing pain.. in short even this pain is empty in nature.. but the sensation of pain is present, just that no one is suffering the pain... the pain itself 'pains'. Of course I am far from such... so am only deducing from knowledge and might be wrong.
My taiwanese teacher went for operation last time... doctors gave him two dose of anaesthetic. Usually one dose is enough to make a person completely unconscious... first dose doesnt work, he is still completely awake. Second dose still the same... the nurse ask whether should give another dose, the doctor say... nope, like that will kill him. Then my teacher said... go ahead with the procedures, no amount of anaesthetic can numb my senses/make me unconscious.
He observed the entire medical procedure and operation, very lucidly, very clearly, without any sound much less screaming and shouting at all, just calming watching it... The doctors are completely shocked and couldn't believe he could withstand this.
Another person I know with rather similar experience.... is the 16th Karmapa.
http://www.simhas.org/karma16.html...In 1981, the Karmapa began to manifest signs of cancer, and his life was known to be near its end. His Holiness went through various recurrences and remissions. He was soon brought to the Clinic Hospital in Zion, Illinois.
His Holiness began contracting various harmful illnesses, all taken upon by himself to rid the suffering of others, and he allowed the doctors to experiment on him. They found that no matter how much sedatives were given to the Karmapa, these medicines had completely no affect on his mental clarity. One day an illness was cured, and the next a new one would be found. The doctors were baffled at how the machines would somehow be turned on and off automatically.
Through all this, they were amazed at the serene atmosphere the 16th Gyalwa Karmapa created.
In the evening on November 5th, 1981, His Holiness passed away. For three days, the heart region of the Karmapa’s body remained warm to the amazement of the medical staff, and as the medical physician put it, “I have no medical explanation for this.” His body was left in the room for these days and remained in meditation position. The Karmapa's disciples, such as Tai Situ Rinpoche, attended his body after his death. Then, on November 9th, his remains were flown back to Sikkim.... -
This is not very related to buddhism but just for sharing of interesting information, there was a documentary of a woman who used self-hypothesis, instead of anaesthetic during a surgert as she is allergic to the chemical. Thus during the operation, this patient is widely-awaked and awared of what is going and yet they don't feel the pain. Personally, i don't know how and why self-hypothesis could work and why she don't feel pain but it does show some insight of how the mind works. [ Disclaimer: pls don't practise this at home for the young kids reading this cos this auntie is trained
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Just to share another interesting account of mine: I have been hypothesised once. In this case, i was told to close my eyes and listen to the voice of another person who says to my ear " that im a steel bar blah blah ( can't really rem the content as it is a long time ago ). True enough, my body was as taunt as a steel bar as what she has said. As they place my head and feet on 2 chairs, i was like a beam, my body didnt buckled down.. i was fully awared of bodily sensation of my muscle and sounds from the surrounding, though my eyes are closed.. usually, for a normal person.. the gravity will therefore be the pulling force and cause the mid-part ( butt ) of the body to fall... -
One question: about meditation..
when i'm doing sitting-meditation.. one of my legs could become numb..
i was told by a venerable in a beginner meditation class.. to slowly but fully awared of the leg movement when im shifting to adjust myself to reduce the numbness...
For the people who meditate regularly, how could they just sit there for hours without moving ?
As what AEN has said about grasping of pain, the feeling comes and go.. erm but the numbness stay even though the intensity varies at time when i observe the mind.. so mm i focus my mind on my breathing but for a split moment, i don't feel the numbness sensation when i dont think about it..
and oh yeah... how come when i meditate, one side of my facial muscle could feel lighter than others.. i know my left and right side of the faces are not exactly the same... and not balanced.. -
for me, either physical or mental, the most effective for me is recite Buddha's name(or Guan Yin's name also can). only focus on the name which is inconcievably meritous and forget any thing else. sort of abide in a state of stillness. if i focus on breathing, it might not work for me.
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Yes thats right... and must have 'yi xin bu luan'Originally posted by sinweiy:for me, either physical or mental, the most effective for me is recite Buddha's name(or Guan Yin's name also can). only focus on the name which is inconcievably meritous and forget any thing else. sort of abide in a state of stillness. if i focus on breathing, it might not work for me.
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since it's not no thought at all, it's Absolutely One Right Thought, Zhen4 Nien4 (one of the eightfold path).
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mm it is becos that ur faith in the Guan yin is strong so when your mind is entirely focus on the image, rather than on the pain? Thus when the mind is not focusing on the pain, thus will not feel pain?Originally posted by sinweiy:for me, either physical or mental, the most effective for me is recite Buddha's name(or Guan Yin's name also can). only focus on the name which is inconcievably meritous and forget any thing else. sort of abide in a state of stillness. if i focus on breathing, it might not work for me.
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Heh will try the method after i have finished my exam in 2 weeks time... -
erm what is the method in achieving there ?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes thats right... and must have 'yi xin bu luan' -
Can say is wu nian er nian, nian er wu nian. That is Zhen Nian Fo.Originally posted by sinweiy:since it's not no thought at all, it's Absolutely One Right Thought, Zhen4 Nien4 (one of the eightfold path).
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mm it is becos that ur faith in the Guan yin is strong so when your mind is entirely focus on the image, rather than on the pain? Thus when the mind is not focusing on the pain, thus will not feel pain?
yes and also Amitabha. okay u can try, its safe. unlike meditation, it wouldn't invite mara due to the virtue of the Amitabha.
Heh will try the method after i have finished my exam in 2 weeks time...
Originally posted by Isis:
in mahayana is
erm what is the method in achieving there ?
[/b]
rememberance of the Buddha (sk:buddhansmiriti, ch: nien fo)
and Pali tradition is :
Buddho by Phra Ajaan Thate Desaransi
Translated from the Thai by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/thate/buddho.html
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
to add that nian er wu nian, wu nian er nian is actual the nian have two meaning. one is mindful(xiang nian) as a verb and the other is thoughts(nian tuo) as a noun. so nian er wu nian/wu nian er nian is mean mindful yet without false thoughts. without false thoughts yet still remain mindful per se.
Can say is wu nian er nian, nian er wu nian. That is Zhen Nian Fo.
so it's not as if it mean no thinking what so ever.
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Yes.. not exactly absent of thoughtOriginally posted by sinweiy:to add that nian er wu nian, wu nian er nian is actual the nian have two meaning. one is mindful(xiang nian) as a verb and the other is thoughts(nian tuo) as a noun. so nian er wu nian/wu nian er nian is mean mindful yet without false thoughts. without false thoughts yet still remain mindful per se.
so it's not as if it mean no thinking what so ever.
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Don't wander your mind off chanting... just chant wholeheartedly, sincerely.Originally posted by Isis:erm what is the method in achieving there ? -
Isn't that like entering a trance? A change of perception?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Don't wander your mind off chanting... just chant wholeheartedly, sincerely. -
The title "overcoming the pain"... also reminds me..
For example when our skin is healing from a cut and becomes itchy.... if i'm bothered/getting attached to it, the itchness will be there constantly bugging me. But if i don't think about it and focus my thinking away from it, the funny thing is that the itchness disappear and it appears as if it wasn't there in the first place...
so what does this say?
there is this common-street saying (as mention by fireice ).. don't think about it and you will not feel pain too.. -
Don't know abt the trance part as i don't practise chanting. Just check the online Merriam-webster dictionary that trance means :Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Isn't that like entering a trance? A change of perception?
1 : a sleeplike state (as of deep hypnosis) usually characterized by partly suspended animation with diminished or absent sensory and motor activity
2 : a state of profound abstraction or absorption
Im not sure whether chanting can actually lead to deep hypnosis.
but from what i know, if u practise concentrating on object or ( an activity??) could reach this very high concentration level where one can develop this one-pointedness concentration..
btw what is the benefit of having and practising this one-pointedness concentration? Anyone has any experience on it? care to share what happens when one reach there state of concentraion and what is their state of mind like? -
Originally posted by Isis:
i did a rough translation:
btw what is the benefit of having and practising this one-pointedness concentration? Anyone has any experience on it? care to share what happens when one reach there state of concentraion and what is their state of mind like?
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?act=ST&f=37&t=31608&st=0#entry440165
neinfo samathi cannot be described by mere words. how can it be attained? when reciting the Buddha's name, one should recite while reflecting at our heart/mind. one should be focus inwardly and not have any outwardly distractional thoughts. one should be at One with Buddha/Awakening Mind. Let the focusing/reciting mind return back to the mind itself. let the reflecting mind return back to the mind itself. Like a light bulb shining outward and yet shining onto itself. Let the focusing/reciting mind and the reflecting mind fuse into One. But we have not reached the core.
One should work on. Penetrated into the deepest most profound meaning of 'Namo Amitabha'. but such penetration of the meaning is different from that of koan analysis. the more one penetrated, the more complete it is and the more one is intimate with Amitabha. when such "Thusness" is reached, suddenly everything just detached away. Luminousity and non-dual state is reached. there's a stopped to the 6 senses and 6 sense objects. The Inner Buddha nature is without defilements, complete in itself.
when one reached neinfo samathi in such a manner, it's sort of entered stream entry/non-retrogression state, ready to work all the way. but now one have not escape samsara, yet one's already within the 'heart' of All Buddhas. when one's life ends, one's sure to achieve the highest grade of PL and swiftly Enlighten to the Buddha vehicle.
http://www.kangzheng.com/longyuan/fxtx/tx57/T5772.htm
ps:
we do have a sutra called Bodhisattva 'remembrance of the Buddha' samathi sutra or Amitayur-buddhanusmriti-sutra(?)
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Isn't that like zoning out?Originally posted by sinweiy:i did a rough translation:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?act=ST&f=37&t=31608&st=0#entry440165
neinfo samathi cannot be described by mere words. how can it be attained? when reciting the Buddha's name, one should recite while reflecting at our heart/mind. one should be focus inwardly and not have any outwardly distractional thoughts. one should be at One with Buddha/Awakening Mind. Let the focusing/reciting mind return back to the mind itself. let the reflecting mind return back to the mind itself. Like a light bulb shining outward and yet shining onto itself. Let the focusing/reciting mind and the reflecting mind fuse into One. But we have not reached the core.
One should work on. Penetrated into the deepest most profound meaning of 'Namo Amitabha'. but such penetration of the meaning is different from that of koan analysis. the more one penetrated, the more complete it is and the more one is intimate with Amitabha. when such "Thusness" is reached, suddenly everything just detached away. Luminousity and non-dual state is reached. there's a stopped to the 6 senses and 6 sense objects. The Inner Buddha nature is without defilements, complete in itself.
when one reached neinfo samathi in such a manner, it's sort of entered stream entry/non-retrogression state, ready to work all the way. but now one have not escape samsara, yet one's already within the 'heart' of All Buddhas. when one's life ends, one's sure to achieve the highest grade of PL and swiftly Enlighten to the Buddha vehicle.
http://www.kangzheng.com/longyuan/fxtx/tx57/T5772.htm
ps:
we do have a sutra called Bodhisattva 'remembrance of the Buddha' samathi sutra or Amitayur-buddhanusmriti-sutra(?)
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For lay person, all physical pain will be converted to mental pain, if it is not converted at all, then we shouldn't bother if it is physically pain or not.Originally posted by surfer188:Physical or mental pain?
Cause there "maybe" are different approaches to it. -
My dharma teacher always tell those who feel pain in their leg during meditation, that if we managed to concentrate despite the pain, then interestingly, the painful area will reduce into a spot, painless, and move around your leg.Originally posted by Isis:One question: about meditation..
when i'm doing sitting-meditation.. one of my legs could become numb..
i was told by a venerable in a beginner meditation class.. to slowly but fully awared of the leg movement when im shifting to adjust myself to reduce the numbness...
For the people who meditate regularly, how could they just sit there for hours without moving ?
As what AEN has said about grasping of pain, the feeling comes and go.. erm but the numbness stay even though the intensity varies at time when i observe the mind.. so mm i focus my mind on my breathing but for a split moment, i don't feel the numbness sensation when i dont think about it..
and oh yeah... how come when i meditate, one side of my facial muscle could feel lighter than others.. i know my left and right side of the faces are not exactly the same... and not balanced..
As for the cause of numbness, it might be because your posture, or the before and after work, this is very important for breathing meditation, why not ask your meditation teacher on it.