qns abt buddhism
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he is not even suppose to touch money, fako!Originally posted by despondent:but he paid for his food so he didnt con the food seller...where did he get his robes from since he is a fake? -
There's an interesting talk at KMSPKS. http://www.kmspks.org/events/index.htmOriginally posted by An Eternal Now:When you become enlightened, you will have no doubts about the truth/reality/our true nature, that you have awakened to... as my experienced friend said "this is more Real than real". Such Insights gained through Buddhist practise will completely shatter your previous illusions and perspective of yourself and the world... and you will be in awe that reality is really quite different from our everyday consciousness and what we used to think reality is. They will describe an awakening into non-duality of subject and object, where the illusion of a separate permanent 'self' is seen as an illusion, and an all pervading infinite pure Presence/pure awareness is experienced, transcending thoughts and perception, time and space, space-like, like the vast sky, boundless, etc etc... and that Buddha Nature is ONE with all sentient being's, Buddhas and Bodhisattvas' Buddha Nature and the Dharma Nature of the entire universe.. we, all phenomena, are EQUAL in essence... like clouds, vapour, ocean, river, are all made of the same substance... water. It has One Taste... and that is our true self, who we really are, pure awareness, the clear light that illuminates everything but itself featureless, formless, and many other endless descriptions, etc. Buddhist teachings such as "Emptiness", "No Self", "Non-Duality", "Intrinsic Luminosity", "Nirvana", or even other descriptions such as "Consciousness", "Pure Awareness", "Tao", "Brahman", "Keter", "Buddha Nature", "Buddha Mind", "One Taste", "Christ Consciousness", "God", "Godhead", "Allah", "The Kingdom of Heaven Within", "Spirit", the "I AM that I AM" or our "true self that is no self", whatsoever, and all these poetic metaphors and attempts as descriptions are finally directly understood at an experiential and intuitive level, with no possibility of doubts. As a result of such insights/awakening one attains liberation, bliss, clarity which is lasting and carries on throughout one's life and forever. Therefore, an enlightened person will know he is enlightened. A Bodhisattva practitioner however does not stop at his own liberation, but vows to help other sentient beings and complete his training in the perfections of the 10 paramitas (the ten virtues) and eventually to attain perfect Buddhahood.
I am not enlightened yet (I've only been a Buddhist for a few years... and just turned 17
)... so I can only paraphrase others' descriptions. But even before this great awakening, we can see many benefits from Buddhist practise.. including more awareness of ourselves (i.e our own thoughts and behaviors) and others (compassion, love, forgiveness, etc), more calmness, happiness, more liberated, fearless (like overcoming your fears of death), etc. Life wld be different if one practises the dharma. As I said before, "Once you have a taste of how practicing dharma results in, you will never be able to resist the path, you can't forget it, you can't discard it. There is a natural compulsion to continue practicing all the way to enlightenment."
The Importance Of Finding Our True Nature by a western Zen Teacher following Korean Zen Master Seung Sahn's tradition.. Ven. Hyon Gak Sunim.
I'm listening to one of his talks on MP3... http://www.southfloridazen.org/talks/HGSNatBHS.mp3.. great talk
Our Buddha Nature is not mysterious, it is closer than your breathe, closer than you can ever think... and everything we see, hear, smell, taste, touch, just as it is, is a manifestation of our basic nature. -
By the way to understand why Buddhism and Enlightenment leads to the end of suffering, we have to take a look at the first teachings that Buddha actually gave to the 5 ascetics he worked with before he left them on his own to seek enlightenment when he saw that asceticism could not lead him to awakening. These 5 ascetics after listening to the discourse attained Arhatship.
Following taken from 'Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha', written by a modern day Arhat, Dharma Dan (source: http://www.interactivebuddha.com/mctb.html).9. THE FOUR NOBLE TRUTHS
The Four Noble Truths, suffering, its cause, its end, and the path that leads to its end, are fundamental to the teachings of the Buddha. He was fond of summarizing his whole teaching in terms of them. Actually, when asked to be really concise, he would just say the first and third: suffering and the end of suffering. This was what he taught. Like the other little lists here, they have great profundity on many levels and are worth exploring in depth.
TRUTH NUMBER ONE: SUFFERING
The first truth is the truth of suffering. Hey, didn't we just see that in the Three Characteristics? Yes! Isn't that great! We also just saw it in The Three Trainings Revisited. There must have been something important about it for it to start off something called the Four Noble Truths that is not immediately obvious. Why do we practice? Suffering, that's why! It is just that simple. Why do we do anything? Suffering!
Plenty of people balk at this, and say that they do lots of things because of reasons other than suffering. I suppose that to be really correct I should add in ignorance and habit, but these are intimately connected to suffering. This is worth investigating in depth. Perhaps there is something more to this first truth that they may have missed on first inspection, as it is a deep and subtle teaching. Actually, to understand this first truth is to understand the whole of the spiritual path, so take the time to investigate it.
The basic gist of the truth from a relative point of view is that we want things to be other than they are, and this causes pain. We want things that are nice to be permanent, we want to get what we want and avoid what we don't want. We wish bad things would go faster than they do, and these are all contrary to reality. We all die, get sick, have conflicts, and constantly seem to be running around either trying to get something (greed), get away from something (hatred), or tune out from reality all together (delusion). We are never perfectly happy with things just as they are. These are the traditional, relative ways in which suffering is explained, but these definitions can only take us so far.
At the most fundamental level, the level that is the most useful for doing insight practices, we wish desperately that there was some separate, permanent self, and we spend huge amounts of time doing our best to prop up this illusion. In order to do this, we habitually ignore lots of useful information about our reality and give our mental impressions and simplifications of reality much more importance than they are necessarily due. It is this illusion that adds a problematic element to the normal and understandable ways in which we go about trying to be happy. We constantly struggle with reality because we misunderstand it, i.e. because reality misunderstands itself.
“So what's new?” one might say. Good point! It isn't new, is it? This has been the whole of our life! The big question is “Is there some understanding which makes a difference?” Yes, or we wouldn't be bothering with all of this spirituality stuff. Somewhere down in our being there is a little voice that cries, “There is another way!” We can find this other way.
Connecting with the truth of suffering can actually be very motivating for spiritual practice. Most traditional talks on the Buddha's teachings begin with this. More than just being motivating for spiritual practice, tuning into suffering is spiritual practice! Many people start meditating and then get frustrated with how much suffering and pain they experience, never knowing that they are actually starting to understand something. They cling to the ideal that insight practices will produce peace and bliss and yet much of what they find is suffering. They donÂ’t realize that things on the cushion tend to get worse before they get better. Thus, they reject the very truths they must deeply understand to obtain the peace they were looking for and thus get nowhere. They reject their own valid insights that they have obtained through valid practice. I suspect that this is one of the greatest and most common stumbling blocks on the spiritual path.
There is a flip side to suffering which can help, and that is compassion, the wish for there to not be suffering. Wherever there is suffering there is compassion, though most of the time somewhat twisted by the confused logic of the process of ego. More on this in a bit, but it leads directly to the second Noble Truth, the cause of suffering.
TRUTH NUMBER TWO: “DESIRE”
The Second Noble Truth is that the cause of suffering is desire, also rendered as craving or attachment. We want things to be other than they are because we perceive the world through the odd logic of the process of ego, through the illusion of the split of the perceiver and the perceived. We might say, “Of course we want things to be great and not unpleasant! What do you expect?” The problem isn't actually quite in the desire for things to be good and not be bad in the way that we might think; it is, in fact, just a bit subtler than that.
This is a really slippery business, and many people can get all into craving for non-craving and desiring non-attachment. This can be useful if it is done wisely and it is actually all we have to work with. If common sense is ignored, however, desiring non-attachment may produce neurotic, self-righteous, repressed ascetics instead of balanced, kind meditators. A tour of any monastery or spiritual community will likely expose you to clear examples of both sides of this delicate balance. So, don't make too much of a problem out of the fact that it seems that one must desire something in order to seek it. This paradox will resolve itself if we are able to experience reality in this moment clearly.
“Craving,” “attachment,” and “desire” are some of the most dangerous words that can be used to describe something that is actually much more fundamental than these seem to indicate. The Buddha did talk about these conventional forms of suffering, but he also talked about the fundamental suffering that comes from some deep longing for a refuge that involves a separate or permanent self. We imagine that such a self will be a refuge, and so we desire such a self, we try to make certain sensations into such a self, we cling to the fundamental notion that such a self can exist as a stable entity and that this will somehow help. The side effects of this manifest in all sorts of additions to mind states and emotions that are not helpful, but these are side effects and not the root that cause of suffering that the Buddha was pointing to.
As stated earlier, a helpful concept here is compassion, a heart aspect of the practice and reality related to kindness. You see, wherever there is desire there is suffering, and wherever there is suffering there is compassion, the desire for the end of suffering. You can actually experience this. So obviously there is some really close relationship between suffering, desire and compassion. This is heavy but good stuff and worth investigating. -
(continued from previous post)
We might conceive of this as compassion having gotten caught in a loop, the loop of the illusion of duality. This is sort of like a dog’s tail chasing itself. Pain and pleasure, suffering and satisfaction always seem to be “over there.” Thus, when pleasant sensations arise, there is a constant, compassionate, deluded attempt to get over there to the other side of the imagined split. This is fundamental attraction. You would think that we would just stop imagining there is a split, but somehow that is not what happens. We keep perpetuating the sense of a split even as we try to bridge it, and so we suffer. When unpleasant sensations arise, there is an attempt to get away from over there, to widen the imagined split. This will never work, because it doesn’t actually exist, but the way we hold our minds as we try to get away from that side is painful. When boring or unpleasant sensations arise, there is the attempt to tune out all together and forget the whole thing, to try to pretend that the sensations on the other side of the split are not there. This is fundamental ignorance and it perpetuates the process, as it is by ignoring aspects of our sensate reality that the illusion of a split is created in the first place.
These strict definitions of fundamental attraction, aversion and ignorance are very important, particularly for when I discuss the various models of the stages of enlightenment. Given the illusion, it seems that somehow these mental reactions will help in a way that will be permanent. Remember that the only thing that will fundamentally help is to understand the Three Characteristics to the degree that makes the difference, and the Three Characteristics are manifesting right here.
Remember how it was stated above that suffering motivates everything we do? We could also say that everything we do is motivated by compassion, which is part of the fundamentally empty nature of reality. That doesnÂ’t mean that everything we do is skillful; that is a whole different issue.
Compassion is a very good thing, especially when it involves one's self and all beings. It is sort of the flip side of the Second Noble Truth. The whole problem is that “misdirected” compassion, compassion that is filtered through the process of ego and its related habits, can produce enormous suffering and often does. It is easy to think of many examples of people searching for happiness in the strangest of places and by doing the strangest of things. Just pick up any newspaper. The take-home message is to search for happiness where you are actually likely to find it.
We might say that compassion is the ultimate aspect of desire, or think of compassion and desire on a continuum. The more wisdom or understanding of interconnectedness there is behind our intentions and actions, the more they reflect compassion and the more the results will turn out well. The more greed, hatred and delusion or lack of understanding of interconnectedness there is behind our intentions and actions, the more they reflect desire and the more suffering there will likely be.
This is sometimes referred to as the “Law of Karma,” where karma is a word that has to do with our intentions and actions. Some people can get all caught up in specifics of this that cannot possibly be known, like speculating that if we kill a bug we will come back as a bug and be squished. Don't. Cause and effect, also called interdependence, is just too imponderably complex. Just use this general concept to look honestly at what you want, why, and precisely how you know this. Examine what the consequences of what you do and think might be for yourself and everyone, and then take responsibility for those consequences. It's a tall order and an important practice to engage in, but don't get too obsessive about it. Remember the simplicity of the first training, training in kindness, generosity, honesty and clarity, and gain balance and wisdom from the other two trainings as you go.
Sometimes looking into suffering and desire can be overwhelming. Life can sometimes be extremely hard. In these moments, try looking into the heart side of the equation, compassion and kindness. Connect with the part of your heart that just wishes the suffering would end and feel that deeply, especially as it manifests in the body. Just this can be profound practice. There are also lots of other good techniques for cultivating a spaciousness of heart that can bear anything, such as formal loving-kindness practices (see Sharon SalzburgÂ’s excellent Loving-kindness, The Revolutionary Art of Happiness). Finding them and practicing them can make the spiritual path much more bearable and pleasant, and this can make it more likely that we will be able to persevere, gain deep insights, be able to integrate them into our lives, and use them to benefit others.
The take-home message is to take the desire to be happy and free of suffering and use its energy to do skillful things that can actually make this happen, rather than getting caught in old unexamined patterns of searching for happiness where you know you will not find it. The Three Trainings are skillful and can inform the whole of our life. By following them we may come to the end of many forms of suffering and be in a much better position to help others do the same.
TRUTH NUMBER THREE: THE END OF SUFFERING
This brings us nicely to the Third Noble Truth, the end of suffering. Now, as noted before, there are three types of suffering pertaining to the scope of each of the three trainings. Traditionally, the Buddha talked about the end of suffering as relating to mastering the third training and thus becoming highly enlightened. The first point is that it can be done and is done today by meditators like you from many spiritual traditions. Yes, there are enlightened people walking around, and not just a rare few that have spent 20 years in a cave in Tibet. This is really important to understand and have faith in. The other point is that with the end of fundamental desire, which we will render here as the end of compassion and reality being filtered through the odd logic of the process of ego, there is the end of fundamental suffering. That's it. Done is what has to be done. Gone, gone, gone beyond, and all of that. All beings can do it, and there is, to make bit of a mystical joke, no time like the present.
Now, it must be said that the Buddha also praised those who had mastered the other two trainings and thus eliminated what suffering could be eliminated by those methods. Even very enlightened beings can benefit from mastering the concentration states. However, there are some complex and difficult issues related to eliminating all of the ordinary suffering in the world and thus related to mastering the first training, which is an endless undertaking. It is because of this particular issue that such teachings as the Bodhisattva Vow arose, and I will deal with these complexities towards the end of this book.
TRUTH NUMBER FOUR: THE PATH
The Fourth Noble Truth is the Noble Eightfold Path that leads to suffering's final end. Another list! Hopefully you have come to like these little lists by now, and so one more will hopefully be seen as another manageable little guide on how to find the end of suffering. Luckily, we have already seen the whole of the Noble Eightfold Path in other parts of some of the other lists, and it is summarized in the Three Trainings of morality, concentration and wisdom.
The morality section is just broken down into three specifics: skillful action, skillful speech and skillful livelihood. Skillful means conducive to the end of suffering for us and for all other living beings. Be kind, honest, clear and compassionate in your whole life, in your actions, speech and work. Notice that nothing is excluded here. The more of our lives we integrate with the spiritual path, the better. Simple to remember and also a powerful guide.
The concentration section contains three things we saw in the Five Spiritual Faculties and the Seven Factors of Enlightenment: skillful energy, skillful concentration, and skillful mindfulness.
The wisdom section has the two last parts of the path: skillful thought or intention and skillful understanding or wisdom. These two are often rendered in different ways, but the meaning is the same: understand the truth of your experience and aspire to kindness and wisdom in your thoughts and deeds. Again, simple but powerful. -
hello i am back again!!!
1) since its nt sinful for buddhists to eat meat...y then do monks abstain from them???
2) personal qn...for an eternal nw
have u ever tot of being a monk?
3) wads the diff... btw reverend, venerable, abbot etc??? -
Originally posted by despondent:
There is karma for eating meat... and it is recommendable that we become vegetarian... but if we are not vegetarian (like myself) we can follow the five clean meat:
hello i am back again!!!
1) since its nt sinful for buddhists to eat meat...y then do monks abstain from them???
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol5no4a.htm
...Buddha understands the ignorance and habits of sentient beings that have accumulated from aeons of their many past lives. In order to provide sentient beings with an expedient means of embracing Buddhism, those who are not able to convert to a vegetarian diet on a long term basis are permitted to consume meat provided:
(1) That he did not slaughter the animal personally
(2) That he did not instruct others to slaughter
(3) That the slaughter was not committed for his sake
(4) That he did not witness the slaughter
(5) That he did not hear the cries associated with the slaughter...
In this way, the karma is not as strong as if we eat 'impure meat' because we have not directly caused or witnessed the killing.2) personal qn...for an eternal nw
Thought of? Yes.. but the 'aspiration' is not there... anyway I'm still quite young lah (17), even if I want to renounce it would be long time later haha. But my guess is I won't be renouncing this lifetime. There are many lay practitioners who are highly enlightened as well including two of my dharma teachers who are lay practitioners and even some of the forummers here (not me).
have u ever tot of being a monk?
Of course if you can renounce as a monk that would be a very very meritious thing so you can dedicate your life entirely to the three treasures (Buddha, Dharma, Sangha) and propagating dharma and helping the masses... but even if you can't, you can renounce within. There are four kinds of renunciation.. I can't remember all four, but monastic renunciation is one, inner renunciation is another.3) wads the diff... btw reverend, venerable, abbot etc???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venerable_(Buddhism)
The title of Venerable is the English title for ordained Buddhist monks or nuns. In the Theravadan tradition the title venerable is called somdet phra, which is given to ordained monks. It is a comparable title to Reverend. Some Mahayana sects also use the title of venerable for monks (In China, monks are denoted with the title of fashi, or Dharma master). The title of master may be followed after monks who have achieved a high level of cultivation.
Abbot is the head of the temple in charge of administration of the temples as well as the 'administration' of the sangha (monastic community) matters. -
so does it mean tat actually monks can eat meat??? hey tis may sound comical but i remember ji gong ate meat n drank wine...is tat permitted for monks??? does simply saying tat xin zhong you fo give monks the rite to eat meat n drink wine???
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I would like to tell you that ji gong is a special kind of bodhisattva in chinaOriginally posted by despondent:so does it mean tat actually monks can eat meat??? hey tis may sound comical but i remember ji gong ate meat n drank wine...is tat permitted for monks??? does simply saying tat xin zhong you fo give monks the rite to eat meat n drink wine???
According to Master Chin Kung he is "wisdom practice " bodhisattva
His example is to deliver those not easily deliver by the usual way of doing good, especially the arrogant rich people in sung dynasty
His way of living cannot be followed by us
a very real -life example that happen in china is this Living Buddha from Mt Gold
who never washes up for 3 years and never smell . -
Crazy wisdom practice bodhisattvaOriginally posted by bohiruci:I would like to tell you that ji gong is a special kind of bodhisattva in china
According to Master Chin Kung he is "wisdom practice " bodhisattva
His example is to deliver those not easily deliver by the usual way of doing good, especially the arrogant rich people in sung dynasty
His way of living cannot be followed by us
a very real -life example that happen in china is this Living Buddha from Mt Gold
who never washes up for 3 years and never smell .
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Chinese Mahayana monks are not supposed to eat meat, they are vegetarians. Tibetan and Theravada (incl. Thai, Sri Lanka, Burma, etc) monks may not be vegetarians. For the Tibetans it is because their high altitude climate is not suitable for vegetation so they largely depend on animals for survival in many aspects.Originally posted by despondent:so does it mean tat actually monks can eat meat??? hey tis may sound comical but i remember ji gong ate meat n drank wine...is tat permitted for monks??? does simply saying tat xin zhong you fo give monks the rite to eat meat n drink wine???
And no, they are not supposed to drink wine. I can't comment on Ji Gong because I don't know much about him. -
so then i am gonna ask the qn tat free-thinkers always like to ask religious ppl including myself...how do u noe tat ji gong, buddha n all the past buddhas existed??? does buddhism provide a sure answer?
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Ji Gong is supposedly a famous zen monk of a monastery so if they got accounts of his existence it should be there.Originally posted by despondent:so then i am gonna ask the qn tat free-thinkers always like to ask religious ppl including myself...how do u noe tat ji gong, buddha n all the past buddhas existed??? does buddhism provide a sure answer?
Shakyamuni Buddha, like Jesus, ok lets not mention religious figures lah... Like Emperor Qin or any of the ancient famous emperors in China, or any famous historical person, is that - a historical person that existed with hundreds of thousands or more followers or people under their lead... all of them existed over 2000 years ago. (p.s Buddha used to be a Prince of his kingdom and almost became King but renounced) Similarly when Buddha existed 2500+ years ago in India, he had a huge sangha (monastic community) and even more lay followers... he walked the entire India and there are of course many historical evidence about his existence - just as there are clear historical factual evidence of our Chinese emperors.
All the historical sites, from his old monasteries and viharas, to where he attained enlightenment, where he was borned, where he attained nirvana, where were the ancient cities, all are marked so Buddhists do go to India for pilgrimage.
Oh by the way people today still continue to attain enlightenment though not Buddha's level... but there are still those who attain enlightenment, liberation, nirvana till this day.. some of who I know personally.. both in and out of this forum. -
then how would u answer a person who claim tat he onli believe wad he can see n tat even if there r historical records abt such ppl, historical records can be wrong...even if u show him a picture or portrait of tat famous historical person, he will stil say: but did u see tis person??? how u noe tis picture nt fake??? maybe its juz a picture made up by someone...
i have met such ppl...most r either atheists, skeptics or agnostics...agnostics as in free-tinkers...they can even tell me maybe albert einstein dun exist...maybe he juz a made up character by man... -
Originally posted by despondent:
It's not just the portrait what.. there are historical facts that can back up the claims.
then how would u answer a person who claim tat he onli believe wad he can see n tat even if there r historical records abt such ppl, historical records can be wrong...even if u show him a picture or portrait of tat famous historical person, he will stil say: but did u see tis person??? how u noe tis picture nt fake??? maybe its juz a picture made up by someone...have met such ppl...most r either atheists, skeptics or agnostics...agnostics as in free-tinkers...they can even tell me maybe albert einstein dun exist...maybe he juz a made up character by man...
For such people even if evidence is presented to him still stubborn then there's nothing we can do, so ignore him
But on the other hand, Buddhism isn't so much based on historical happenings unlike Christianity... maybe neutral onliner can elaborate on this... means even today there are still people who attain enlightenment, Buddha was not the only Buddha he only showed us the way... and it is up to everyone of us to practise his teachings... and that eventually all of us will attain Buddhahood because our Buddha Nature is already wholly complete. -
it is written in the anecdotes of Great Monk - Gao shen zuanOriginally posted by despondent:so then i am gonna ask the qn tat free-thinkers always like to ask religious ppl including myself...how do u noe tat ji gong, buddha n all the past buddhas existed??? does buddhism provide a sure answer?
that such person exist in China
Gao Sheng Zhuan also have stories of Kumarajia , Hsuan Tsang -
hey juz wondering ah...do u guys stil remember a guy by the nic casino king??? he is one such person i juz mentioned...he onli believe wad he sees...historical evidence he dun believe cos he claims can be wrong mah...i was posting at eternal hope back then n came across him...according to him, he interrogated buddhism too...juz curious...how did u guys deal wif him???
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The way I deal with him is very simple... I just reply with my knowledge and I was never defeatedOriginally posted by despondent:hey juz wondering ah...do u guys stil remember a guy my the nic casino king??? he is one such person i juz mentioned...he onli believe wad he sees...historical evidence he dun believe cos he claims can be wrong mah...i was posting at eternal hope back then n came across him...according to him, he interrogated buddhism too...juz curious...how did u guys deal wif him??? 
One of his thread got 400+ posts... or was it his.. but I know his topics got a lot of reply and debates. Actually, quite fun lah.. missed the old days of lengthy debates
Casino_king is an interesting guy... he's spiritual but he wants people not to focus so much on beliefs. He said:
He's not Buddhist but we had many interesting discussions with him in the past... the discussions at the latter days were even more interesting... was about deeper Buddhist teachings like emptiness.Originally posted by casino_king:GOD is Spirit according to the Bible. What is spirit, you might say? I can only speak based on my own relationship with God and I tell you that I have no wish to define God for you or anybody because as far as I am concern, GOD is beyond's any man's comprehension and you only communicate and have a relationship / be aware of God in your own life.
How a man ends up being aware and have a relationship with God is by being "born of the spirit." I certainly know that I was born again. When you are born again, "angels" and "heaven" and your whole being rejoices.
It is not much different then when a baby is born, except that this is personal. You are the one that rejoices with the "heavenly beings."
I put them all in " " because you might have a different understanding of those words in " " that I used.
Many Christians here cannot accept what I say, even though it was Jesus who said, "You must be Born Again" and "You must be born of the Spirit" and insists that it is simply "believe, have faith" and not a "new birth" in you (the other school hope that as long as you believe you then assume you have new birth
) As if you need to hope and not know something so obvious as a new birth in yourself.
I believe that Enlightenment has the same effect. If you are Enlightened please tell me what it is like. -
---wrong topic---
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simple, i will wish him a fulfilling and suffering-free life and be on my wayOriginally posted by despondent:then how would u answer a person who claim tat he onli believe wad he can see n tat even if there r historical records abt such ppl, historical records can be wrong...even if u show him a picture or portrait of tat famous historical person, he will stil say: but did u see tis person??? how u noe tis picture nt fake??? maybe its juz a picture made up by someone...
i have met such ppl...most r either atheists, skeptics or agnostics...agnostics as in free-tinkers...they can even tell me maybe albert einstein dun exist...maybe he juz a made up character by man... -
the very need to convince them of the possibility already seeds your own "fan nao" karmaOriginally posted by despondent:then how would u answer a person who claim tat he onli believe wad he can see n tat even if there r historical records abt such ppl, historical records can be wrong...even if u show him a picture or portrait of tat famous historical person, he will stil say: but did u see tis person??? how u noe tis picture nt fake??? maybe its juz a picture made up by someone...
i have met such ppl...most r either atheists, skeptics or agnostics...agnostics as in free-tinkers...they can even tell me maybe albert einstein dun exist...maybe he juz a made up character by man...
and the very fact that you are troubled by not being able to convince such a person is as good as agreeing with him that the Way doesnt exist
therefore my dear friend, sometimes when we wish to convince someone of a certain "idea" doesnt always have to be always in verbal form
plus the fact that those who rely solely on their physical senses to understand the world around them is quite low on the intelligence pecking order, even from a scientific perspective -
hihi...
i have a qn here...i read up a bit abt the falungong n soka...wad r they??? i read tat they r part of buddhism...how different r they from mainstream buddhism??? -
Falungong has nothing to do with Buddhism.... Imagine a "new age" group that teaches their own teachings on qi gong... but they incorporate a bit of elements of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism, and all the religions in the world. Falungong is something like that. So it's originations is not related to Buddhism, though the founder tries to incorporate a bit of Buddhist teachings here and there, but heavily interpreted (many times completely wrongly) by their religious leader.Originally posted by despondent:hihi...
i have a qn here...i read up a bit abt the falungong n soka...wad r they??? i read tat they r part of buddhism...how different r they from mainstream buddhism???
However their practises are deviant and does not represent Buddha's teachings, which is about 'avoiding evil, doing good, purifying the mind', it is about enlightenment, wisdom, liberation, bliss of nirvana. Falun practise is a form of 'energy practice' a little bit similar to Qi Gong from what I can tell, but there were reports of people being brainwashed and even in some cases led to insanity by the sect, but I won't affirm or deny such reports and is up to people's own judgement of that religious sect. And these practices do not lead to liberation and enlightenment.
Soka Gakkai has its origins from Buddhism, however they deviated from the mainstream Buddhist tradition due to internal conflicts and schism, and eventually they are not recognised by Mainstream Buddhism. Their concepts of the dharma may have some flaws and therefore few know the path to liberation. Their school also preach a lot on chanting for worldly benefits.
Also, in the Nichiren Buddhism thread, Supa_Naga pointed out the difference of Soka's views on the Triple Gems as compared to other mainstream Buddhist traditions:
Here's the brief difference between Nichiren Shu, Nichiren Shoshu & Soka Gakkai:
3 Treasures of Buddhism
- Buddha
- Dhamma
- Sangha
1) Nichiren Shu
- Buddha : Eternal Sakyamuni Buddha
- Dhamma : Mahayana Tripitaka with the Lotus Sutra as base, Namu Myoho Renge Kyo
- Sangha : Nichiren Shonin (with the monastics & lay community)
2) Nichiren Shoshu
- Buddha : Nichiren Daishonin
- Dhamma : The Lotus Sutra, Nam Myoho Rengo Kyo (with emphasize on the Goshos)
- Sangha : Nikko Shonin & successive High Priests
3) Soka Gakkai [2 types]
{A} Official
- Buddha : Nichiren Daishonin
- Dhamma : The Lotus Sutra, Nam Myoho Rengo Kyo (with emphasize on the Goshos)
- Sangha : Nikko Shonin
{B} In Reality
-
- Dhamma : Writings & Teachings of the President & Soka Gakkai
- Sangha : Soka Gakkai organisation & members -
thanx for replying...hey do u have any idea abt tis religion called tian jiao??? it seems to have its origins in buddhism too...but they do believe in a creator n he is called the jade emperor...
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Do you mean Tian Dao (a.k.a Yi Guan Dao)? It does not have origins in Buddhism but rather it is related to an old cult called 'Bai Lian Jiao'. Like Falungong, it is a combination of many religions but their Buddhist teachings were distorted (they even teach their own version of Maitreya that is totally different from Buddhism and Buddha's words), nor does their practices lead to liberation and enlightenment. And anyway, Buddhism does not believe in any sort of personal creator deity.Originally posted by despondent:thanx for replying...hey do u have any idea abt tis religion called tian jiao??? it seems to have its origins in buddhism too...but they do believe in a creator n he is called the jade emperor...Thian Tao
Tian Tao or I Kuan Tao is a modern, syncretic faith and the third most popular religion in Taiwan. The Chinese words I Kuan Tao can be roughly translated as the Religion of One Unity. It is a religious doctrine that draws upon both traditional Chinese teachings and each of the world's major religions. This religion attempts to identify common principles underlying Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Hinduism. Tian Tao believes that by uncovering a single set of universal truths, the "increasing chaos" of modern times can be defeated and the world can live peacefully in harmony. They believe in a God beyond all other gods, called Ming-ming Shang-ti (the God of Clarity).
It may have its roots with the Bai Lian Jiao (White Lotus Sect) which created several political unrests for both the Qing court (1644 - 1911) and foreign powers, such as the British, French and so forth who have seized the lands from the hands of the Qing court since the Opium War. Bai Lian Jiao is closely related to the Chinese Christian cult, Tai Ping Tian Guo, founded by Hong Xiu Quan, in the late Qing dynasty. Hong Xiu Quan believed himself as Jesus Christ's heavenly brother, which was sent to Earth by Lord God to liberate Chinese people from imperial oppression. Lands were belonged by Lord God and not the Qing court, hence poor and uneducated peasants in ten of thousands accepted his teachings. Heavenly King Yang Xiu Ching, the Minister of State for Tai Ping Tian Guo, tried to seize the power and authority of Emperor Hong Xiu Quan. To legitimize his authority, he occasionally lapsed into trances in which his voice supposedly became that of the Lord's. In one of his trances, Heavenly King Yang Xiu Ching claimed that the Lord demanded Hong Xiu Quan be whipped for kicking one of his concubines. Emperor Hong Xiu Quan had Heavenly King Yang Xiu Ching murdered by Wei Chang Hui, a Tai Ping Tian Guo general. The followers of Heavenly King Yang Xiu Ching later formed the Bai Lian Jiao.
Another source stated that Tian Tao was evolved from Xian Tian Tao which was founded by 9th Patriarch Huang De Hui of the Shun Zhi period of Qing Dynasty. Huang De Hui combined the three main belief systems of China with a belief in the Wu Sheng Lao Mu (Great Mother) to form Xian Tian Tao. Bodhidharma is credited as the 1st Patriarch, the first five Chinese Chan Patriarchs are credited as 2nd to 6th Patriarchs. Bai Ma became the 7th Patriarch and the 8th Patriarch is Luo Wei Qun. The lines of patriarch of Xian Tian Tao continue into the present I Kuan Tao. The 15th Patriarch had made some major changes in the formulas and goals of Xian Tian Tao. And it is the 16th Patriarch Liu Ching Xu renamed the group as I Kuan Tao. The 18th Patriarch is the last in line of the patriarchs.
The followers of I Kuan Tao claimed that it is a distinguished lineage back over 2000 years when it begins from the ancient Chinese astrolgers, emperors, Confucius, and so forth. From 18th Ancient Patriarch Mencius, the lineage travels to the west, the lineage began from Shakyamuni Buddha, Mahakashyapa to 28th Indian Patriarch Bodhidharma. But the modern practice of Tian Tao, as we know it today, was established about 70 years ago. In the 1930, Shi Zueng Zhang Tian Ran and Shi Mu Sun Hui Ming, became the 18th Patriarch and started their practice I Kuan Tao in Chi Nan City, Shang Dong Province of China. Their work spread by word of mouth, and by 1946 I Kuan Tao became prevalent among 36 provinces of China. At the end of the Civil War in 1949, many followers in China found their beliefs incompatible with Communist doctrines. This and other reasons compelled large numbers of them to emigrate to Taiwan, Hong Kong, Korea, Japan, Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and the Philippines. Tian Tao quickly took root in these new lands, spreading with its teachings Chinese culture and traditional family values. By increasing the number of I Kuan Tao temples, they believed that they are bringing the Buddhist "Western Paradise" to earth and creating a world of brotherhood and universal love as envisioned by Confucian teachings.
Today, they have about 4,500,000 followers in Taiwan, Korea and Japan; about 2,000,000 followers in South East Asian countries; and a growing number of adherents in countries like Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Argentina, South Africa, Paraguay, Italy, France, Germany, Holland and United Kingdom. In Taiwan alone, there are over 200 large and medium-sized temples and over 30,000 family shrines.
Presently, they claimed that the founder, 17th Patriarch Lu Zhong Yi, was an incarnation of Maitreya. He has major influence and impact on the present form of I Kuan Tao. The central teaching of Tian Tao, is based on the initiation ceremony - a new formula on the Triple Gem, namely: 1. Opening of Heavenly Eye (Dian Xuan Dao), 2.Oral Transmission of the Maitreya prayer (Chuan Ko Jue), and 3. Hand Gestures (Jie He Tong). They believe that the recipient has obtained the Tao and that his name has been reserved in the heaven and erased from the lists in hell. Upon death, the recipient will ascend straight to heaven without having to endure the cycles of rebirth.
The followers of this organization must be a strict vegetarian. It is said that they will not teach and liberate three groups of people: they are butchers, fishermen and prostitutes.
Usually, their temples are painted in pure white. And they have large followers in Asia. Their selection for potential followers are very strict. Non-members of this organization are not allowed to step into their temple compound. They can only enter the temple compound through the invitation from the senior members. On the day itself, the new recruit will make to vow to keep secrets on what he/she has learnt from the temple. Why? Without asking of consert, he/she is sent to receive the "secret" formula, so-called "Triple Gem". If he/she has failed to keep the secrets, and leaked out these secrets to non-members, he/she will be killed by the 5 heavenly thunders (Wu Lei Hong Ding). -
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There are many works written by this cult group. There are few popular ones. For example:
1. "Maitreya Sutra" (Chinese: Mi Le Zhen Jing) is their own version of Maitreyavyakarana Sutra. It is said that this scripture was spoken by the Buddha. It talks about the benefit on having faith on Maitreya Buddha. The retinue of protectors are non-Buddhist ones, most of them are from the Chinese folk religions and not to mention the main character, Lao Mu who is Wu Sheng Lao Mu in short.
2. "The Travelogue for the Hell" (Chinese: Ti Yu You Ji) revealed by Ji Gong, a Chinese folk religion deity whose origin is unknown. This work explains about hell.
These books can be found in the free book distribution corners in the Chinese folk religion temples.
"The group is known as Ee Kwang Tao. I was invited to attend the opening of one of their 'Holy Houses'. It was one of the strangest rituals that i have ever witnessed. Following the ritual we were invited to go before the 'Master' to receive initiation. I declined on the grounds that I had been invited to attend the opening but not to join anything. After a while they approached me again and they said that the 'Master' was waiting for me and I MUST go before the 'Master'. I replied that I must not do anything of the sort as I am a traditional Buddhist and had no wish to join their organisation. I thanked them for their hospitality and said that I was leaving. As each person arrived they took their name. As I left they asked me for my name as they said that the names were being sent to heaven and, as I refused initiation, my name would have to be struck off the list. I consulted a Chinese friend about my experience and he immediately identified it as the Ee Kwang Tao cult which, as was said, is proliferating in Australia. The initiates are sworn to secrecy with the threat of harm to themselves and their family if the secrets are revealed. This dangerous cult bears no relation to Buddhism so beware of them." Graeme Lyall (Australia), 1999.
At times, their activities are not restricted in the temple compounds. In Singapore, the very senior members who hold the posts of "Tang Zhu", can convert the new comers in their own houses. The main Singapore centre is located at Bukit Merah Central, and it is known as "Chong Hua Tong Tou Teck Hwee Building". You can see the name of the building at the main gate. It is also stated that it is "strictly for members". Their first centre was located at Upper Serangoon Road, and was demolished recently. And there are many smaller temples or community welfare centres scattered around Singapore. They are registered with Registry of Society as "Xin Jia Bo Zhong Hua Tang Dao De Hui" (Sing Gah Ball Chong Hua Tong Tou Teck Hwee) and they also work hand-in-hand with "De Jiao" founded by Thye Hua Kwan Moral Society and also with Chee Hoon Kog Moral Promotion Society for those community welfare services.
The other schools which are evolved from Xian Tian Tao, are Tung Shan She, Tien De Sheng Jiao, Tao Yuan and Tzu Hui Tang. They are independent groups and do not share the same leadership.